India. weird or wonderful?

Letwin_Larry · 06-12-2019 10:37am #1

I've always considered India to be a bit of a strange and interesting place, especially when it comes to crime & punishment, and attitudes towards women. and religion? i mean Gods that look like elephants?!! but this case shines a light on yet another of those crazy Indian situations.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/06/indian-police-shoot-dead-four-men-suspected-of-hyderabad

Trigger Happy · 06-12-2019 10:40am

I have been to india a few times and found it to be an interesting and fascinating place. But no way could I live there.

Hulk Hands · 06-12-2019 10:46am

Was in a customer facing role a while back dealing with many nationalities and they were consistently the hardest to serve. Possible (likely) we're only getting the richer more entitled ones over here

topper75 · 06-12-2019 10:54am

Most people there are quite sane. Bigger population: bigger weird.
Same applies to U.S.
They just don't publish the 'normal person got on with normal day' type stories here in Ireland so you can end up with a distorted view very quickly.
I got sent there with work and it was quite educational. I wouldn't have afforded a personal trip.

Letwin_Larry · 06-12-2019 11:06am

topper75 wrote: »

Most people there are quite sane. Bigger population: bigger weird.
Same applies to U.S.
They just don't publish the 'normal person got on with normal day' type stories here in Ireland so you can end up with a distorted view very quickly.
I got sent there with work and it was quite educational. I wouldn't have afforded a personal trip.

i have no doubt the vast majority of their 1.3 billion people go about their daily, boring lives in a humdrum manner, but you add in a big dollop of religion, and the weird just gets weirder.

Wibbs · 06-12-2019 11:12am

A fascinating country and set of cultures and history, but overall, yeah weird and corrupt and horribly divided on so many levels.

branie2 · 06-12-2019 11:15am

Looks wonderful to me

Letwin_Larry · 06-12-2019 11:38am

and we wont even mention their crazy Caste system!
i didn't know this until i recently saw a documentary on TV recently, but there are 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation Brits of Indian heritage who are "bound" by it when it comes to marriage, career choices etc.

Thelonious Monk · 06-12-2019 11:38am

Elephant gods are cool, way cooler than depressing f*ckers on crosses etc. Also I love their food, although methinks if I actually went to India the food would be totes different.

biko · 06-12-2019 11:40am

I like the place and did for a time consider moving there.
In the end I stayed but it's still something I think about sometimes.

B.A._Baracus · 06-12-2019 11:44am

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Was in a customer facing role a while back dealing with many nationalities and they were consistently the hardest to serve. Possible (likely) we're only getting the richer more entitled ones over here

Absolutely.
Terrible poverty in India. So only the richer people would be able to afford coming over.

I find India to be two opposite sides of the spectrum. Sure, you could go to the nice places are see the wonderful things. But go to the wrong parts and see just how some of the poorest people on earth live. Not to mention the rapes and attitudes to women.

You know what tho? India is a kip. Let's just call a spade a spade. Yeah, sure, some good parts but it's a kip!

06-12-2019 11:46am

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

I've always considered India to be a bit of a strange and interesting place, especially when it comes to crime & punishment, and attitudes towards women. and religion? i mean Gods that look like elephants?!! but this case shines a light on yet another of those crazy Indian situations.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/06/indian-police-shoot-dead-four-men-suspected-of-hyderabad

Police shoot 4 suspects when they tried to escape?

In a huge country with a population approximately one fifth of the entire world, thats the weirdest and 'craziest' you could find? Really?

Letwin_Larry · 06-12-2019 11:55am

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Absolutely.
Terrible poverty in India. So only the richer people would be able to afford coming over.

I find India to be two opposite sides of the spectrum. Sure, you could go to the nice places are see the wonderful things. But go to the wrong parts and see just how some of the poorest people on earth live. Not to mention the rapes and attitudes to women.

You know what tho? India is a kip. Let's just call a spade a spade. Yeah, sure, some good parts but it's a kip!

a friend of mine spent a couple of years in India. because there are no public facilities (well not enough) people just let nature take its' course and have a crap when the urge takes them.

i guess that makes it a big dump that's full of sh1t, but with interesting deity figures.

uck51js9zml2yt · 06-12-2019 11:56am

Currently in india. Food is like nothing you get at home.
Poverty and homelessness makes both a doddle at home.
If you are homeless here you have nothing and at best are living under a bridge or a central median on the road.
It's a tale of 2 countries, the wealthy have everything the poor nothing.
We romanticise it in the west. Our version is a fairy tale.

o1s1n · 06-12-2019 12:00pm

I find their food and art culture really fascinating and interesting. However some of their human rights issues are downright awful, especially the treatment of women and their caste system.

I've also worked with quite a lot of Indian businessmen over the years and have found, on average, that the higher they get in an organisation, the worse they get.

That old saying about measuring people as to how they treat those below them really does not look favourably towards their actions at all.

jam_mac_jam · 06-12-2019 12:04pm

Its an amazing country, very interesting, captivating with the most beautiful mountains and scenery and historical sights. Also the most filthy place you will ever see in your life.

Some truly disgusting sights to be seen. I would recommend going but its quite a harsh place in ways and pretty horrible the wealth that exists there and the way that some people live. Some of the cities would make you sick with the smell or rubbish.

kenmc · 06-12-2019 9:14pm

Went there on honeymoon.
It's a full on assault on the senses: sound, sight, smell ever present, and then the taste of course, awesome. We previously spent months in western China, some tiny remote villages, likewise Laos, Cambodia, even northern Thailand and Vietnam, but nothing I saw or experienced there prepared me for the first couple of days in Delhi. Was completely overwhelmed for the first time in my life. Came round soon enough, and loved the rest of the time, 3 weeks in all. It's absolutely filthy, there's no sense of personal space whatsoever, but it's absolutely fascinating. Highly recommend a visit

TheValeyard · 06-12-2019 9:26pm

Who needs the Kwik-E-Mart?
Now here's the tricky part
Oh, won't you rhyme with me?
Who needs the Kwik-E-Mart?

ScallionAyter · 06-12-2019 9:26pm

I was there for a week. The roads are insane - lanes mean nothing to them. The thing i liked about the place was that there's no welfare state. People are up at the crack of dawn to sell flip flops at the side of the road.

They must think we're insane with our cradle to grave welfare system. We are.

Spanish Eyes · 06-12-2019 9:29pm

Despite all my travels it is one country I had no desire to visit. Just seems so crowded, polluted and lawless in many ways, and the poor are kicked to the kerb in many places, probably the result of the caste system.

That is not to say that there aren't many great places to see either. Just me.

anewme · 06-12-2019 9:33pm

I'm the same. I'm very well travelled and not afraid anywhere. But its one place as a solo woman I would not go to.

Plumbthedepths · 06-12-2019 9:36pm

ScallionAyter wrote: »

I was there for a week. The roads are insane - lanes mean nothing to them. The thing i liked about the place was that there's no welfare state. People are up at the crack of dawn to sell flip flops at the side of the road.

They must think we're insane with our cradle to grave welfare system. We are.

Oh I don't know I quite like the idea of a safety net. Of course you'll have a cohort that will abuse the system, small price to pay in my opinion.Happy that we are not ok with letting the poorer or vulnerable in our society just move to the fringe and die.

mistress_gi · 06-12-2019 9:40pm

ScallionAyter wrote: »

I was there for a week. The roads are insane - lanes mean nothing to them. The thing i liked about the place was that there's no welfare state. People are up at the crack of dawn to sell flip flops at the side of the road.

They must think we're insane with our cradle to grave welfare system. We are.

I was a little sick in my mouth listening to that...

ScallionAyter · 06-12-2019 10:06pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Oh I don't know I quite like the idea of a safety net.

It's not a safety net for these people buying iPhone 8's and EP tickets. It's a hammock.

Plumbthedepths · 06-12-2019 10:09pm

ScallionAyter wrote: »

It's not a safety net for these people, it's a hammock.

The rest of my comment explained my mindset. I 'm happy we don't actively allow our citizens who can't help themselves for whatever reason fall to the fringes and die through hunger or ill health. I conceded there are some that will take advantage, again a small price to pay in the grand scheme of things.

Wibbs · 06-12-2019 10:10pm

ScallionAyter wrote: »

I was there for a week. The roads are insane - lanes mean nothing to them. The thing i liked about the place was that there's no welfare state. People are up at the crack of dawn to sell flip flops at the side of the road.

They must think we're insane with our cradle to grave welfare system. We are.

Given a choice between a civilised social democracy like Ireland where there is a safety net and very little true poverty and the utter sh1thole(literally) with a huge wealth gap and social exclusion like India, I'll take Ireland thanks and figure it's well worth my taxes, of which I've paid a sh1t ton of in my life. Hell in VAT alone it's in the millions.

I love these third hand opinion mini imported libertarians that come out with this guff. They to a man and woman assume that in a sink or swim, pull yourself up by the bootstraps, with no welfare type state they'd be the ones doing the swimming. Doesn't quite work like that though enough of the top swimmers have convinced the sinkers and the doggy paddle shallow end strugglers that it does. QV The American Dream(tm). What's the percentage of well off in India, what's the percentage of dirt poor? Yeah, as rolls of the dice go, chances are very much in favour of the same anti welfare types being the ones defecating on the street.

Mad_maxx · 06-12-2019 10:12pm

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Was in a customer facing role a while back dealing with many nationalities and they were consistently the hardest to serve. Possible (likely) we're only getting the richer more entitled ones over here

i live with chronic pain stemming from an injury which involves meeting orthopedics , radiologists and pain specialists on a fairly regular basis so deal with doctors quite a lot , those from india are my least favourite by a country mile , most are arrogant and rude , some i reckon have no medical qualifications at all

i have never had a negative experience with an african ( black or north african ) or middle eastern doctor just in case someone feels like playing the race card

McCrack · 06-12-2019 10:19pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Given a choice between a civilised social democracy like Ireland where there is a safety net and very little true poverty and the utter sh1thole(literally) with a huge wealth gap and social exclusion like India, I'll take Ireland thanks and figure it's well worth my taxes, of which I've paid a sh1t ton of in my life. Hell in VAT alone it's in the millions.

I love these third hand opinion mini imported libertarians that come out with this guff. They to a man and woman assume that in a sink or swim, pull yourself up by the bootstraps, with no welfare type state they'd be the ones doing the swimming. Doesn't quite work like that though enough of the top swimmers have convinced the sinkers and the doggy paddle shallow end strugglers that it does. QV The American Dream(tm). What's the percentage of well off in India, what's the percentage of dirt poor? Yeah, as rolls of the dice go, chances are very much in favour of the same anti welfare types being the ones defecating on the street.

You talk some shyte

Ipso · 06-12-2019 10:22pm

A while back the BBC done a series on the partition of India and Pakistan (around the anniversary). I saw an ad for one of the shows, supposedly there was an Indian/Hindu school in an area that would likely end up in Pakistan; horrified at the prospect of his students becoming muslims the head master killed them.

ScallionAyter · 06-12-2019 10:23pm

Wibbs wrote: »

it's well worth my taxes, of which I've paid a sh1t ton of in my life. Hell in VAT alone it's in the millions.

Another wealthy latte liberal, who supports flinging our hard earned money at the feckless and bone idle Jacintas who've never seen a P60 in their life. You're ok with them until they move in next door... then you're onto your TD.

Plumbthedepths · 06-12-2019 10:27pm

McCrack wrote: »

You talk some shyte

The polite thing to do would be to give a detailed rebuttal instead of a 'braindead' soundbite just saying..

Mad_maxx · 06-12-2019 10:30pm

welfare states are a good thing , we can do better than currently is the case however , situations where a third of local authority tenants are in long term arrears makes a complete mockery of so called social contracts , nothing is expected of the so called vulnerable in ireland , eventually the majority grow tired of being told they should be still while being milked

K.Flyer · 06-12-2019 10:38pm

ScallionAyter wrote: »

Another wealthy latte liberal, who supports flinging our hard earned money at the feckless and bone idle Jacintas who've never seen a P60 in their life. You're ok with them until they move in next door... then you're onto your TD.

You never know how your circumstances can change. I'll health and sudden loss of the ability to work and you can suddenly find yourself far from your comfortable lifestyle, and all through no fault of your own.
The bone idlers are not so many these days, but will always exist. But for those who really need it, our welfare system is barely adequate.
But at least it's there, and I'm happy to contribute to it for the good it does.

Ipso · 06-12-2019 10:38pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The polite thing to do would be to give a detailed rebuttal instead of a 'braindead' soundbite just saying..

More than 140 characters! Come on man, it's not easy juggling many accounts.

Witchie · 06-12-2019 10:43pm

Only Goa and Rajasthan are bearable from what I can see. Lived in Goa for a few months and it was lovely but the rest of India (have worked in Bangalore too) is just a sh*thole.

Dirty, disgusting, frustrating, aggravating....I could go on but you get the picture.

One thing that really peed me off was broke people, not able to feed their kids are paying for offerings to god's to help them feed their kids. Idiocy and futility of all made me so angry.

Some wonderful people but you need to get to know them before they are friendly in general. Unlike other places in Asia where you feel welcome straight away.

Also stop following me around shops, markets, train stations like am gonna steal something. Oh and stop looking at me like am dinner.

My sister loves it, I hate it. Hope I never have to go back.

Mad_maxx · 06-12-2019 10:44pm

K.Flyer wrote: »

You never know how your circumstances can change. I'll health and sudden loss of the ability to work and you can suddenly find yourself far from your comfortable lifestyle, and all through no fault of your own.
The bone idlers are not so many these days, but will always exist. But for those who really need it, our welfare system is barely adequate.
But at least it's there, and I'm happy to contribute to it for the good it does.

"barely adequate " ?

its incredibly generous , bar the nordic countries , where is it more generous globally ?

Wibbs · 06-12-2019 10:55pm

McCrack wrote: »

You talk some shyte

Oh indeed I do, but even then you can't debate beyond the above. One would think shyte would be far easier to rebuff.

ScallionAyter wrote: »

Another wealthy latte liberal, who supports flinging our hard earned money at the feckless and bone idle Jacintas who've never seen a P60 in their life. You're ok with them until they move in next door... then you're onto your TD.

Afraid not. Well the only way you're getting a latte into me is with restraints and a funnel. And nope I couldn't give two fcuks about my neighbours and their business so long as they mind theirs and mine and are pleasant in the passing. Of my neighbours I have one a few doors down(thankfully) who is worth a few bob on paper, though fur coat no knickers comes to mind and is an utter wankbottle. His wife looks like she's been sucking on lemons from the womb and both fancy themselves as "community leaders". I've had to politely and not so politely to tell them to sod off more than once. Another neighbour was willed his gaff and was on the dole for a fair few years and is one of the nicest human beings one could meet and has been very kind to me and mine and others down the years.

On the "wealthy latte liberal" point. OK, let's imagine for a moment that that's true(though it's not), then why haven't you set aside the shackles of being an impotent PAYE worker with your hard earned being flung at the feckless and and bone idle Jacintas by the lefties in the Dail and become a "wealthy latte liberal" yourself on the sheer strength of your mind, work ethic and bootstrap pulling ability? Then you could relax the kaks, apparently like I have. Tease that thought a bit further and see where it might lead.

Mad_maxx wrote: »

welfare states are a good thing , we can do better than currently is the case however , situations where a third of local authority tenants are in long term arrears makes a complete mockery of so called social contracts , nothing is expected of the so called vulnerable in ireland , eventually the majority grow tired of being told they should be still while being milked

Oh do not get me wrong MM, I agree there are issues and a few serious issues with how it's implemented in this country and the PAYE nine to fiver does get ridden in a few ways. Those taking the piss need to be taken to task. It's the get rid of all social welfare, work will set you free nouveau libertarians that give me a pain in the puckered hole. Especially when damned near every single one of them and their families have benefited at one time or another from our social welfare in some form.

K.Flyer · 06-12-2019 10:59pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

"barely adequate " ?

its incredibly generous , bar the nordic countries , where is it more generous globally ?

I suppose it depends from which angle you view the welfare system. Yes, I agree for some it is a very handy handout.
When writing my thoughts were of those in very ill health and bad situations with little chance of improvement.

Spanish Eyes · 06-12-2019 11:01pm

Must be the high Caste Indians with financial security who land in many countries around the World and offer their knowledge and medical expertise. That is great, and welcome.

Such is life I suppose, same everywhere. But the treatment or lack thereof of the poor in India is despicable IMV.

Wibbs · 06-12-2019 11:07pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Such is life I suppose, same everywhere. But the treatment or lack thereof of the poor in India is despicable IMV.

Thankfully it's not quite the same everywhere S. But when India are a nuclear power with an effin space programme and they can spend 80 odd million on this monstrosity among others, when the rape and murder of women and kids is so prevalent, poverty is endemic and millions are sh1tting in the streets you have to bloody wonder.

ScallionAyter · 06-12-2019 11:13pm

Wibbs, i understand why social welfare gougers spending their money on iPhone 8's doesn't seem to particularly bother you. You've paid 'millions in PAYE' as you say yourself. You're obviously comfortable, so it's just another ivory back scratcher or Tesla upgrade for you.... it makes no difference.

To the rest of us plebs, who place a higher value on the money that comes into our households through grit and sacrifice, it's a bit more galling.

Spanish Eyes · 06-12-2019 11:14pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Thankfully it's not quite the same everywhere S. But when India are a nuclear power with an effin space programme and they can spend 80 odd million on this monstrosity among others, when the rape and murder of women and kids is so prevalent, poverty is endemic and millions are sh1tting in the streets you have to bloody wonder.

Indeed. But not much will change because of our rants either. Best to stay away IMV.

That probably cuts off half the world also in their treatment of those less fortunate though.

Still India is off my to go to list anyway for starters. Always was TBH.

Delhi Belly is not pleasant either as I have heard from those who ventured!

X111111111111 · 06-12-2019 11:20pm

ScallionAyter wrote: »

I was there for a week. The roads are insane - lanes mean nothing to them. The thing i liked about the place was that there's no welfare state. People are up at the crack of dawn to sell flip flops at the side of the road.

They must think we're insane with our cradle to grave welfare system. We are.

Lol yeah i'd much prefer to see our citizens selling their kids for sex on the streets like in India to pay for food and washing in the liffey. I'm glad and proud my taxes go towards our system of welfare. India sounds like a right s h ithole tbh.

Wibbs · 06-12-2019 11:30pm

ScallionAyter wrote: »

Wibbs, i understand why social welfare gougers spending their money on iPhone 8's doesn't seem to particularly bother you. You've paid 'millions in PAYE' as you say yourself. You're obviously comfortable, so it's just another ivory back scratcher or Tesla upgrade for you.... it makes no difference.

To the rest of us plebs, who place a higher value on the money that comes into our households through grit and sacrifice, it's a bit more galling.

I've had ups, I've had downs S, some of them sh1tty and over a few years and I've had loads of spare disposable and fcuk all too. No ivory back scratchers or Teslas here, nor would I want them. Indeed avoiding same has left me less in want.

And as I said...

Me. Earlier. wrote:

On the "wealthy latte liberal" point. OK, let's imagine for a moment that that's true(though it's not), then why haven't you set aside the shackles of being an impotent PAYE worker with your hard earned being flung at the feckless and and bone idle Jacintas by the lefties in the Dail and become a "wealthy latte liberal" yourself on the sheer strength of your mind, work ethic and bootstrap pulling ability? Then you could relax the kaks, apparently like I have. Tease that thought a bit further and see where it might lead.

I am not denying the feckless and the chancers S, of which there are a few and too many, but if it's so easy for all the feckless to go out and make their way with "grit and sacrifice" why can't you make of yourself a comfortable life festooned with ivory back scratchers and your own Tesla in the driveway, so you can sip lattes and not give a damn?

Like I said the system is nowhere near perfect and liberties are most certainly taken by too many, though outside of rage rhetoric it's a minority, I would still prefer to live in a social democracy with a safety net for all, even if it provides a "hammock" for a minority. And think on this S: If the predictions for automation are even half way accurate, the chances are very high that the average PAYE office worker is going to be replaced, no matter how much work they put in, no matter how much grit and sacrifice, then what then for the future?

anewme · 06-12-2019 11:34pm

Wibbs wrote: »

he predictions for automation are even half way accurate, the chances are very high that the average PAYE office worker is going to be replaced, no matter how much work they put in, no matter how much grit and sacrifice, then what then for the future?

Ah well, it was good while it lasted.

Ipso · 06-12-2019 11:44pm

Wibbs wrote: »

I've had ups, I've had downs S, some of them sh1tty and over a few years and I've had loads of spare disposable and fcuk all too. No ivory back scratchers or Teslas here, nor would I want them. Indeed avoiding same has left me less in want.

And as I said...

I am not denying the feckless and the chancers S, of which there are a few and too many, but if it's so easy for all the feckless to go out and make their way with "grit and sacrifice" why can't you make of yourself a comfortable life festooned with ivory back scratchers and your own Tesla in the driveway, so you can sip lattes and not give a damn?

Like I said the system is nowhere near perfect and liberties are most certainly taken by too many, though outside of rage rhetoric it's a minority, I would still prefer to live in a social democracy with a safety net for all, even if it provides a "hammock" for a minority. And think on this S: If the predictions for automation are even half way accurate, the chances are very high that the average PAYE office worker is going to be replaced, no matter how much work they put in, no matter how much grit and sacrifice, then what then for the future?

An interesting interview with someone who thinks automation is going to be devastating.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/andrew-yang-freedom-dividend-matt-taibbi-katie-halper-useful-idiots-920375/

Bobblehats · 07-12-2019 12:04am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Elephant gods are cool, way cooler than depressing f*ckers on crosses etc.

Must confess when somebody says to me “not cool” I get a warm fuzzy feeling. As I wear my necklace with pride

Rufeo · 07-12-2019 12:07pm

Don't worry, OP, Dublin will soon be Dublinistan.

4Ad · 07-12-2019 4:48pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Elephant gods are cool, way cooler than depressing f*ckers on crosses etc. Also I love their food, although methinks if I actually went to India the food would be totes different.

The food (vegetarian) was the highlight of my trip, dhosas... Glad I went, I wont be in a hurry back though..

bnt · 07-12-2019 6:52pm

I spent two weeks in Bangalore Bengaluru for work (giving training), and while it was interesting, a couple of things made it clear that I could not live there. I had to stay in a apartment block built for foreigners, behind walls, and was told not to go out by myself, but only with a driver. Immediately outside the complex gate there were some nice buildings with abject poverty between them, where I could see people crammed in to a couple of rooms, and beggars hanging round the gates at all hours.

Bengaluru has some upscale areas too, with some nice-looking multi-storey houses. But the sheer numbers of people around have to be seen to be believed, and don't get me started on the traffic situation. Busy crossings with no traffic control at all, so drivers would just push through, honking regularly to let other cars know they were there.

I only saw one side of the country, a long way from what the average Indian would see.

Letwin_Larry · 07-12-2019 6:54pm

sorry lads i think i'll give the place a miss. i know the onion bajjis are to die for but ...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7767221/India-rape-victim-candle-lit-march-erupts-violence.html

India. weird or wonderful?

Comments