Schools closed until February? (part 3)

irishblessing · 07-10-2020 11:37am

Lillyfae wrote: »

Which is totally pointless, because Boards.ie and it's users are not responsible for implementing anything in schools.

Lobby your unions with this. Have your union push it forward, loudly and clearly, to government. Every extra argument made is diluting every argument that came before it so focus on the most important things and cut out the rest of the noise.

You're not listening. They have lobbied. It's been ignored. That's why we're in this mess.

Lillyfae · 07-10-2020 11:40am

eviltwin wrote: »

It doesn't answer my question though. Why are clusters in other sectors openly shared but schools aren't?

Do you know what the definition of a cluster is? It's a group of cases in one place which is more than would have been expected for that place. What if 2 children in a class have Covid-19, but it was picked up at the local GAA club, where 10 people are infected? Where is that cluster coming from?

wirelessdude01 · 07-10-2020 11:48am

SusanC10 wrote: »

Any thoughts (particularly from Teachers) on an extended Mid-Term Break at this point ?

Not sure where this started from but heard a fair few versions of this floating about as rumours yesterday.

If it does happen then it needs to be an all-island approach.

Personally I think a week or two bolted onto both sides of Christmas might be more palatable to the Government. Listening to Leo the other night he seemed to be playingf or time, plus he kept making the point that plans need to be formulated.

irishblessing · 07-10-2020 11:49am

Originally Posted by irishblessing

If the government really wanted to prioritise schools remaining open then they would have implemented a phased reopening, an earlier released plan so that changes-especially structural- could actually be completed, provided more PPE, and a sensible hybrid remote learning plan as well as requiring masks for primary students where SD and ventilation in the classroom are poor.

Lillyfae wrote: »

Agreed, but secret communion parties and teachers sharing lifts to work are not the government's fault, are they? And that is what is driving community transmission.

More disingenuous posting, seems to be your style. I've commented the above in response to you saying the government have prioritised schools staying open. I've pointed out where they fell far short of that mark.
What has a "secret communion party" (where was this? One or two here and there? Hardly "driving community transmission") have to do with the risks in the school environment of children becoming infected and bringing home to their families, or their school teachers/staff contracting it due to lack of proper preparations?
What you've just done is a red herring. You're distracting from the actual point being put forward. Which is that schools are unsafe regardless and because of what is happening in the community specifically.

SusanC10 · 07-10-2020 11:50am

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Not sure where this started from but heard a fair few versions of 4his this floating about as rumours yesterday.

If it does happen then it needs to be an all-island approach.

Personally I think a week or two bolted onto both sides of Christmas might be more palatable to the Government. Listening to Leo the other night he seemed to be playingf or time, plus he kept making the point that plans need to be formulated.

Yep, one of the other Mum's posted to our Class WhatsApp group that there was talk of a 2 week Mid-Term.

Christmas probably makes a lot of sense though.

irishblessing · 07-10-2020 11:50am

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Not sure where this started from but heard a fair few versions of this floating about as rumours yesterday.

If it does happen then it needs to be an all-island approach.

Personally I think a week or two bolted onto both sides of Christmas might be more palatable to the Government. Listening to Leo the other night he seemed to be playingf or time, plus he kept making the point that plans need to be formulated.

I missed this interview from Leo; any chance you have a link? I'd like to check it out.

wirelessdude01 · 07-10-2020 11:52am

irishblessing wrote: »

I missed this interview from Leo; any chance you have a link? I'd like to check it out.

Claire Byrne from Monday night. The one where he opened a new one for the CMO.

Lillyfae · 07-10-2020 11:58am

irishblessing wrote: »

What has a "secret communion party" (where was this? One or two here and there? Hardly "driving community transmission") have to do with the risks in the school environment of children becoming infected and bringing home to their families, or their school teachers/staff contracting it due to lack of proper preparations?
What you've just done is a red herring. You're distracting from the actual point being put forward. Which is that schools are unsafe regardless and because of what is happening in the community specifically.

It's disingenuous to suggest that these and other unnecessary interactions aren't happening, making communities and schools more unsafe. Of course if there are clusters in the community, this is going to adversely affect schools (I have never disputed that) but that does not mean that the school is driving transmission.

irishblessing · 07-10-2020 12:01pm

Lillyfae wrote: »

It's disingenuous to suggest that these and other unnecessary interactions aren't happening, making communities and schools more unsafe. Of course if there are clusters in the community, this is going to adversely affect schools (I have never disputed that) but that does not mean that the school is driving transmission.

You made the point that secret communion parties were "driving community transmission." Have you got any proof to back up that claim?

I never suggested anything of the sort, so lose the disingenuous finger pointing. This isn't Simon says.
I also never said schools are driving transmission. Please do try keep to what's actually being said, instead of either embellishing or plucking things out of thin air.

Lillyfae · 07-10-2020 12:21pm

irishblessing wrote: »

You made the point that secret communion parties were "driving community transmission." Have you got any proof to back up that claim?

I never suggested anything of the sort, so lose the disingenuous finger pointing. This isn't Simon says.
I also never said schools are driving transmission. Please do try keep to what's actually being said, instead of either embellishing or plucking things out of thin air.

There is absolutely no need to be so aggressive. This is a stressful time for everyone, and everyone on this thread has a right to put their point across.

There is a lot of talk here that schools are responsible for driving transmission. I never said that you said that, I am just pointing out how the evidence doesn't support that because there is conflation of the issues. You yourself mentioned new dresses and bouncy castles for communions a few pages back, and how they're highly unnecessary- why would you say that unless you thought it was risky? Experts agree with you, by the way:

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/communion-and-confirmation-parties-and-travel-across-border-fuel-covid-surge-expert-warns-39561204.html

Icyseanfitz · 07-10-2020 12:21pm

What happens if your waiting on test results, when you get a positive you isolate for 14 days. But when you get a negative, do you then isolate for 48h or are you straight back in to work the next day?

Icyseanfitz · 07-10-2020 12:22pm

Lillyfae wrote: »

There is absolutely no need to be so aggressive. This is a stressful time for everyone, and everyone on this thread has a right to put their point across.

There is a lot of talk here that schools are responsible for driving transmission. I never said that you said that, I am just pointing out how the evidence doesn't support that because there is conflation of the issues. You yourself mentioned new dresses and bouncy castles for communions a few pages back, and how they're highly unnecessary- why would you say that unless you thought it was risky?

Schools are certainly adding to the spread, how can they possibly not be?

TexasTornado · 07-10-2020 12:23pm

irishblessing wrote: »

I missed this interview from Leo; any chance you have a link? I'd like to check it out.

Ladies and Gentlemen Mr. Stephen Donnelly

Lillyfae · 07-10-2020 12:24pm

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Schools are certainly adding to the spread, how can they possibly not be?

Of course they will, if people aren't washing their hands, staying at home and isolating when sick, not avoiding unnecessary interactions.

irishblessing · 07-10-2020 12:26pm

TexasTornado wrote: »

Ladies and Gentlemen Mr. Stephen Donnelly

hahaha thanks for the laugh :pac:

Icyseanfitz · 07-10-2020 12:28pm

Lillyfae wrote: »

Of course they will, if people aren't washing their hands, staying at home and isolating when sick, not avoiding unnecessary interactions.

So if they are adding to the spread, which you agree with, are they not in part driving the spread of covid

Lillyfae · 07-10-2020 12:31pm

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

So if they are adding to the spread, which you agree with, are they not in part driving the spread of covid

Not in this context, no. Community is driving transmission. If everyone behaves responsibly then transmission will drop.

irishblessing · 07-10-2020 12:33pm

Lillyfae wrote: »

There is absolutely no need to be so aggressive. This is a stressful time for everyone, and everyone on this thread has a right to put their point across.

There is a lot of talk here that schools are responsible for driving transmission. I never said that you said that, I am just pointing out how the evidence doesn't support that because there is conflation of the issues. You yourself mentioned new dresses and bouncy castles for communions a few pages back, and how they're highly unnecessary- why would you say that unless you thought it was risky? Experts agree with you, by the way:

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/communion-and-confirmation-parties-and-travel-across-border-fuel-covid-surge-expert-warns-39561204.html

"Agressive" :rolleyes: That's where you're going now? I guess it makes sense following on from your disingenuous posting style, and use of hyperbole & red herrings.

Schools are one of the drivers. I don't believe anyone said they are "the" driver. Is that so hard to understand?

Yes communion gatherings are risky and I think in this climate are unnecessary and need to be rethought to focus on just the individual ceremony itself if that's of importance. Not sure what you meant by "secret communion parties are driving community transmission." You're the one saying this specific thing is driving it. Could you explain further on what you see as an issue with "secret" communion parties for Ireland?

Icyseanfitz · 07-10-2020 12:33pm

Lillyfae wrote: »

Not in this context, no. Community is driving transmission. If everyone behaves responsibly then transmission will drop.

School is community, it doesn't work in isolation, every child has a family, who either also go to a school or work, everything is connected.

irishblessing · 07-10-2020 12:34pm

Lillyfae wrote: »

Not in this context, no. Community is driving transmission. If everyone behaves responsibly then transmission will drop.

But they won't, unfortunately. Isn't there another anti-mask protest happening either today or very soon?

I know people and have neighbours who have carried on as normal since the start.

Icyseanfitz · 07-10-2020 12:36pm

Lillyfae wrote: »

Not in this context, no. Community is driving transmission. If everyone behaves responsibly then transmission will drop.

Just as an aside, we have had so many students sent in sick this week, its a disgrace, people arnt all good and sensible, quite a lot are selfish and short sighted.

irishblessing · 07-10-2020 12:38pm

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

School is community, it doesn't work in isolation, every child has a family, who either also go to a school or work, everything is connected.

Yes... and GAA (before they closed) and scouts, and after school clubs or minders, and music lessons, and....

Lillyfae · 07-10-2020 12:48pm

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Just as an aside, we have had so many students sent in sick this week, its a disgrace, people arnt all good and sensible, quite a lot are selfish and short sighted.

Highly irresponsible, you have my sympathy. I hope the parents are being immediately pulled up on it. I really think that this should be a matter for Tusla if it's repeatedly happening in families.

irishblessing wrote: »

Yes... and GAA (before they closed) and scouts, and after school clubs or minders, and music lessons, and....

School and childcare are essential, GAA and scouts are not essential.

wirelessdude01 · 07-10-2020 12:50pm

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

What happens if your waiting on test results, when you get a positive you isolate for 14 days. But when you get a negative, do you then isolate for 48h or are you straight back in to work the next day?

48hrs after symptoms disappear.

Icyseanfitz · 07-10-2020 12:50pm

irishblessing wrote: »

Yes... and GAA (before they closed) and scouts, and after school clubs or minders, and music lessons, and....

Exactly one case in any of those can turn into a cluster when brought into a classroom (which is happening). Its easy to say cases are originating in the community even though school is connected to every aspect of it.

meeeeh · 07-10-2020 12:52pm

irishblessing wrote: »

You're not listening. They have lobbied. It's been ignored. That's why we're in this mess.

What mess is that? Can someone explain me what special mess is Ireland in that other countries around Europe are not? As far I know all have schools reopened (some exceptions in Cz rep) and and awful lot of European countries are recording record numbers of infections including before mentioned Czechia. So what makes Corona mess in Ireland so special?

BonsaiKitten · 07-10-2020 12:53pm

SusanC10 wrote: »

Any thoughts (particularly from Teachers) on an extended Mid-Term Break at this point ?

We've discussed that among my staff. Our thinking was that it's fairly sensible but as someone else pointed out you'd probably need to take a whole island approach. Christmas is already 2 weeks so I don't know if they'd add time to that.

I'd actually love a 2 week Halloween as it would mean I can change my pod groups! We have been told not to change them unless there's a 14 day gap (which is nonsense imo but here we are). I usually change up the groupings very frequently and having them set for so long is driving me mad.

wirelessdude01 · 07-10-2020 12:58pm

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

I'd actually love a 2 week Halloween as it would mean I can change my pod groups! We have been told not to change them unless there's a 14 day gap (which is nonsense imo but here we are). I usually change up the groupings very frequently and having them set for so long is driving me mad.

We've been told the same, can only be done at Christmas. I would normally change mine every fortnight.

irishblessing · 07-10-2020 1:06pm

meeeeh wrote: »

What mess is that? Can someone explain me what special mess is Ireland in that other countries around Europe are not? As far I know all have schools reopened (some exceptions in Cz rep) and and awful lot of European countries are recording record numbers of infections including before mentioned Czechia. So what makes Corona mess in Ireland so special?

I'm not sure if that's a serious question or not.

"The mess" refers to the fact that the school environment is unsafe and not conducive to an uninterrupted education for our children.

The teachers, staff and students are not protected enough from a lack of PPE, to overcrowded classrooms, to lack of a hybrid remote learning plan, to complacency and last but not least a sham of tracking & tracing cases.

Teachers, staff and families who either themselves, their children or both are at high risk and have ZERO alternative options to educate their children while remaining safe at home.

Students and staff who become ill, or need to quarantine and there is no national plan b for them to continue their education at home or teach. Schools may now close at the higher levels of shutdown, and yet still- no national plan for how our children are to still be educated. Other countries have put their thinking caps on and their shoulders to the wheel and come up with plans that can ensure families and students have the best, safest options to choose from that work for them and in the face of closures or indeed delayed in person teaching altogether because outbreaks in the area are too high.
Our own uni's and various college courses have moved online. It's a disgrace this hasn't been delivered on a nationwide scale to all in Ireland.

As I've said before I have many family and friends in the US, Canada, and another close friend is in Mexico. These countries have all implemented this with FAR, far higher regional and population complexity. Our problem? Apathy, laziness, and a lack of imagination and forward thinking in government. I'm disgusted more than I can ever remember being tbh.

meeeeh · 07-10-2020 1:08pm

irishblessing wrote: »

I'm not sure if that's a serious question or not.

"The mess" refers to the fact that the school environment is unsafe and not conducive to an uninterrupted education for our children.

The teachers, staff and students are not protected enough from a lack of PPE, to overcrowded classrooms, to lack of a hybrid remote learning plan, to complacency and last but not least a sham of tracking & tracing cases.

Teachers, staff and families who either themselves, their children or both are at high risk and have ZERO alternative options to educate their children while remaining safe at home.

Students and staff who become ill, or need to quarantine and there is no national plan b for them to continue their education at home or teach. Schools may now close at the higher levels of shutdown, and yet still- no national plan for how our children are to still be educated. Other countries have put their thinking caps on and their shoulders to the wheel and come up with plans that can ensure families and students have the best, safest options to choose from that work for them and in the face of closures or indeed delayed in person teaching altogether because outbreaks in the area are too high.
Our own uni's and various college courses have moved online. It's a disgrace this hasn't been delivered on a nationwide scale to all in Ireland.

As I've said before I have many family and friends in the US, Canada, and another close friend is in Mexico. These countries have all implemented this with FAR, far higher regional and population complexity. Our problem? Apathy, laziness, and a lack of imagination and forward thinking in government. I'm disgusted more than I can ever remember being tbh.

In other words we are doing fine in comparison to the rest of Europe.

Icyseanfitz · 07-10-2020 1:12pm

meeeeh wrote: »

In other words we are doing fine in comparison to the rest of Europe.

Why bother :rolleyes: out of interest, have you set foot in an Irish classroom since reopening?

Icyseanfitz · 07-10-2020 1:13pm

irishblessing wrote: »

I'm not sure if that's a serious question or not.

"The mess" refers to the fact that the school environment is unsafe and not conducive to an uninterrupted education for our children.

The teachers, staff and students are not protected enough from a lack of PPE, to overcrowded classrooms, to lack of a hybrid remote learning plan, to complacency and last but not least a sham of tracking & tracing cases.

Teachers, staff and families who either themselves, their children or both are at high risk and have ZERO alternative options to educate their children while remaining safe at home.

Students and staff who become ill, or need to quarantine and there is no national plan b for them to continue their education at home or teach. Schools may now close at the higher levels of shutdown, and yet still- no national plan for how our children are to still be educated. Other countries have put their thinking caps on and their shoulders to the wheel and come up with plans that can ensure families and students have the best, safest options to choose from that work for them and in the face of closures or indeed delayed in person teaching altogether because outbreaks in the area are too high.
Our own uni's and various college courses have moved online. It's a disgrace this hasn't been delivered on a nationwide scale to all in Ireland.

As I've said before I have many family and friends in the US, Canada, and another close friend is in Mexico. These countries have all implemented this with FAR, far higher regional and population complexity. Our problem? Apathy, laziness, and a lack of imagination and forward thinking in government. I'm disgusted more than I can ever remember being tbh.

Fantastic post

meeeeh · 07-10-2020 1:13pm

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Why bother :rolleyes: out of interest, have you set foot in an Irish classroom since reopening?

My kids did. They are miraculously still alive and school is quite happy how things are going.

Of course nobody will start fb pages to state that or have anonymous letters from principals stating things are ok because scaremongering is so much more fun.

JDD · 07-10-2020 1:14pm

For the teachers on the thread...

2 scenarios for you:

(i) Say we have a circuit breaker four week Level 5 lockdown in the next two weeks. The purpose of which is to surpress infections down to a point where were can open at Level 2 for most of the Christmas period. Will you be comfortable teaching during that lockdown and if not, would you be uncomfortable to the point that you would be looking for your union to agree to strike action?

(ii) Say we continue to go up through the Levels. Level 3 for three weeks. That doesn't work. Whole country to Level 4 for three weeks and while it works a bit, its not enough to stop hospitals from reaching capacity. So we then go to Level 5, at some point in December, when it is generally accepted that Covid is much more widespread than it is now. For anyone that was comfortable at Scenario 1, would you now look for strike action?

Let me say, I'm not judging your reaction in any way. My personal view is that, because children tend to by asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic, they do not shed as much virus when they are contagious and therefore teachers are in a better place than say if they were in a room with no PPE and 25 adults.

But I can't back that up with a peer reviewed study or anything, it's just a hunch. And if I was a teacher, even if I had the same hunch, I'm not sure I'd want to take the risk when it gets to the point that Covid is very widespread (say, the same as it was in early March). While I might be comfortable at Scenario 1, because things won't be too different then they are right now, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable at Scenario 2. And even though I'm a working parent with a vested interest in keeping schools open I think I'd side with teachers if they opted for strike action at Scenario 2 (and perhaps even at Scenario 1).

Icyseanfitz · 07-10-2020 1:18pm

meeeeh wrote: »

My kids did. They are miraculously still alive and school is quite happy how things are going.

Of course nobody will start fb pages to state that or have anonymous letters from principals stating things are ok because scaremongering is so much more fun.

So you haven't and are basing school safety on your own bias.

meeeeh · 07-10-2020 1:19pm

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

So you haven't and are basing school safety on your own bias.

What are you basing it on? Independent verifiable research?

SusanC10 · 07-10-2020 1:43pm

JDD wrote: »

For the teachers on the thread...

2 scenarios for you:

(i) Say we have a circuit breaker four week Level 5 lockdown in the next two weeks. The purpose of which is to surpress infections down to a point where were can open at Level 2 for most of the Christmas period. Will you be comfortable teaching during that lockdown and if not, would you be uncomfortable to the point that you would be looking for your union to agree to strike action?

(ii) Say we continue to go up through the Levels. Level 3 for three weeks. That doesn't work. Whole country to Level 4 for three weeks and while it works a bit, its not enough to stop hospitals from reaching capacity. So we then go to Level 5, at some point in December, when it is generally accepted that Covid is much more widespread than it is now. For anyone that was comfortable at Scenario 1, would you now look for strike action?

Let me say, I'm not judging your reaction in any way. My personal view is that, because children tend to by asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic, they do not shed as much virus when they are contagious and therefore teachers are in a better place than say if they were in a room with no PPE and 25 adults.

But I can't back that up with a peer reviewed study or anything, it's just a hunch. And if I was a teacher, even if I had the same hunch, I'm not sure I'd want to take the risk when it gets to the point that Covid is very widespread (say, the same as it was in early March). While I might be comfortable at Scenario 1, because things won't be too different then they are right now, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable at Scenario 2. And even though I'm a working parent with a vested interest in keeping schools open I think I'd side with teachers if they opted for strike action at Scenario 2 (and perhaps even at Scenario 1).

Not a Teacher and would be interested to hear Teachers thoughts but imo Schools will be closed if we get to Level 5 and rightly so.
They may even need to be closed in Level 4.
Personally, I feel that since earlier this week, keeping schools open come what may is no longer the same level of priority for the Government as previously.
Just my opinion.

Icyseanfitz · 07-10-2020 1:45pm

meeeeh wrote: »

What are you basing it on? Independent verifiable research?

Working every day in a big post primary school, also have many friends and family working in education where clusters and cases are happening due to schools being unsafe at the moment.

But im sure you'll tell me im full of **** and that everything in schools is perfectly safe without having an ounce of ground level experience of what's happening on a day to day basis in schools right now.

irishblessing · 07-10-2020 1:50pm

meeeeh wrote: »

In other words we are doing fine in comparison to the rest of Europe.

Is that the bar set high, then?

Anyway, do you not know it's widespread in other eu countries too? (I just don't know anyone personally living elsewhere there, with kids).

FFS. Easy google search

https://www.europeandataportal.eu/en/impact-studies/covid-19/education-during-covid-19-moving-towards-e-learning

"A survey conducted by UNESCO concluded that most education systems, of the 61 questioned countries, implemented measures related to distance learning."

Icyseanfitz · 07-10-2020 1:50pm

JDD wrote: »

For the teachers on the thread...

2 scenarios for you:

(i) Say we have a circuit breaker four week Level 5 lockdown in the next two weeks. The purpose of which is to surpress infections down to a point where were can open at Level 2 for most of the Christmas period. Will you be comfortable teaching during that lockdown and if not, would you be uncomfortable to the point that you would be looking for your union to agree to strike action?

(ii) Say we continue to go up through the Levels. Level 3 for three weeks. That doesn't work. Whole country to Level 4 for three weeks and while it works a bit, its not enough to stop hospitals from reaching capacity. So we then go to Level 5, at some point in December, when it is generally accepted that Covid is much more widespread than it is now. For anyone that was comfortable at Scenario 1, would you now look for strike action?

Let me say, I'm not judging your reaction in any way. My personal view is that, because children tend to by asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic, they do not shed as much virus when they are contagious and therefore teachers are in a better place than say if they were in a room with no PPE and 25 adults.

But I can't back that up with a peer reviewed study or anything, it's just a hunch. And if I was a teacher, even if I had the same hunch, I'm not sure I'd want to take the risk when it gets to the point that Covid is very widespread (say, the same as it was in early March). While I might be comfortable at Scenario 1, because things won't be too different then they are right now, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable at Scenario 2. And even though I'm a working parent with a vested interest in keeping schools open I think I'd side with teachers if they opted for strike action at Scenario 2 (and perhaps even at Scenario 1).

As an SNA i would be quite happy to continue working at level 5 if they reduced class numbers by half, gave out correct ppe gear, gave SNAs some sort of guidelines and procedures as to how to do our jobs and keep our students and ourselves safe and improve the contact tracing/honesty around it.

I would also gladly help my students in a remote capacity if needed through ms teams etc.

irishblessing · 07-10-2020 1:53pm

meeeeh wrote: »

My kids did. They are miraculously still alive and school is quite happy how things are going.

Of course nobody will start fb pages to state that or have anonymous letters from principals stating things are ok because scaremongering is so much more fun.

I wonder if they were asymptomatic, and who else they might have spread it to that didn't have such a "miraculous" outcome.

Lillyfae · 07-10-2020 1:55pm

irishblessing wrote: »

Is that the bar set high, then?

Anyway, do you not know it's widespread in other eu countries too? (I just don't know anyone personally living elsewhere there, with kids).

FFS. Easy google search

https://www.europeandataportal.eu/en/impact-studies/covid-19/education-during-covid-19-moving-towards-e-learning

"A survey conducted by UNESCO concluded that most education systems, of the 61 questioned countries, implemented measures related to distance learning."

During school closures. Not now. From the link:

It is too early to judge whether a new hybrid educational system will emerge with both face-to-face and online classes, or the short-term preparation to online learning will result in poor performance and suggest going back to traditional methods. As the situation further progresses and more data on the topic is gathered, extensive analysis of the larger-scale impact of the pandemic on education can be conducted by experts in the field.

Lillyfae · 07-10-2020 1:58pm

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Working every day in a big post primary school, also have many friends and family working in education where clusters and cases are happening due to schools being unsafe at the moment.

But im sure you'll tell me im full of **** and that everything in schools is perfectly safe without having an ounce of ground level experience of what's happening on a day to day basis in schools right now.

It's quite clear that some schools are struggling and require further support, but others aren't and are managing the situation. Like I said, for those who are struggling, you need to be hammering down the Union's door right now. They are not "they", they're "you".

irishblessing · 07-10-2020 2:03pm

Lillyfae wrote: »

During school closures. Not now. From the link:

It is too early to judge whether a new hybrid educational system will emerge with both face-to-face and online classes, or the short-term preparation to online learning will result in poor performance and suggest going back to traditional methods. As the situation further progresses and more data on the topic is gathered, extensive analysis of the larger-scale impact of the pandemic on education can be conducted by experts in the field.

Yes now. That was an absolutely ridiculous, disingenuous post as per usual from you. You literally quoted the summary paragraph at the very end, which is referring to hindsight of the changes made to the education systems.

You completely skipped over all the rest of it, including:

From the link:

In order to contain the contagion, many countries have implemented restrictive measures to reduce gathering and formations of crowds. Schools are also affected and had to reduce their classes or close entirely. One can only imagine the impact when, at the peak of the crisis, almost 1.6 billion children in 195 countries worldwide could not use their classrooms. If school closures are extended for too long, there is a significant potential for loss of educational opportunities, but also a potential loss of human capital and diminished economic opportunities in the long-term. Fortunately, the closing of schools did not entirely stop education, although it changed it. To reduce the impact of closures, schools have been looking for alternative ways to provide access to education. On the side of home schooling, students and children are currently, wherever possible, remotely educated all over the world, using technology such as online courses, video classes, and electronic textbooks.

Almost 50% of the UNESCO surveyed education systems, across all income levels, are providing additional teacher trainings to properly prepare for distance teaching.

Changes in the Future

Nowadays, parents, students and teachers across Europe are adapting to the ‘new normal’ with education from a distance. As schools start reopening again, there are two time horizons against which changes can be observed. In the short-term, schools need to guarantee that proper hygiene and social distancing measures are undertaken, they need to create trust among parents to allow their children back in schools, and they need to consider possible learning losses and how to compensate for those. In the long term, possible permanent changes to the educational systems could be observed. Not only does this require adapting to the use of technology but – with growing volumes of data being created about the students’ behaviour and performance – it also forces schools to further consider the privacy and protection of the pupils’ personal data.

Icyseanfitz · 07-10-2020 2:05pm

Lillyfae wrote: »

It's quite clear that some schools are struggling and require further support, but others aren't and are managing the situation. Like I said, for those who are struggling, you need to be hammering down the Union's door right now. They are not "they", they're "you".

Unions have gone silent unfortunately. Its going to come down to parents at this stage. Everyone assumes educators are just looking for more time off etc.

meeeeh · 07-10-2020 2:08pm

irishblessing wrote: »

Is that the bar set high, then?

Anyway, do you not know it's widespread in other eu countries too? (I just don't know anyone personally living elsewhere there, with kids).

FFS. Easy google search

https://www.europeandataportal.eu/en/impact-studies/covid-19/education-during-covid-19-moving-towards-e-learning

"A survey conducted by UNESCO concluded that most education systems, of the 61 questioned countries, implemented measures related to distance learning."

Did you actually read your own link? Except the first two lines you managed to quote. Metrics for Ireland are relatively good and nowhere did say what kind of measures, central led or individual and very few countries are actually mentioned in any way outside data graphs (Norway, Sweden and Belgium). You can even go interactive map that shows you Irish kids have good access to computers, internet and quiet place to study. Not to mention this was written in June.

Don't post links that you don't even look at in hope that neither will anyone else.

scrubs33 · 07-10-2020 2:08pm

Schools and teachers have lost the PR battle with regard to opening/staying open. There is no discussion in the media and there won’t be until level 5 starts getting mentioned again: for what it’s worth I think the highest we will go again is 4. We are coping in school here (just about) but will get through it and bask in the empty and self congratulatory platitudes from the Dept, NAPD, managerial bodies and all the other education partners/vested interests. Apologies for the rant but things here are fraying badly and there is 0 support in the offing.

irishblessing · 07-10-2020 2:12pm

meeeeh wrote: »

Did you actually read your own link? Except the first two lines you managed to quote. Metrics for Ireland are relatively good and nowhere did say what kind of measures, central led or individual and very few countries are actually mentioned in any way outside data graphs (Norway, Sweden and Belgium). You can even go interactive map that shows you Irish kids have good access to computers, internet and quiet place to study. Not to mention this was written in June.

Don't post links that you don't even look at in hope that neither will anyone else.

No, I didn't read it! FFS. I quoted from it exactly and extensively which you ignored.

What kind of measures you ask? Would you like me to do some more googling and prepare a report on all the possible and likely successful measures and email them to Norma and do her job for her? No problem. I'm not the one getting paid for it but sure why not. Some randomer on boards.ie must be satisfied. :rolleyes:

Yep June. Writing was on the wall even then. Imagine that.

Lillyfae · 07-10-2020 2:13pm

meeeeh wrote: »

Did you actually read your own link? Except the first two lines you managed to quote. Metrics for Ireland are relatively good and nowhere did say what kind of measures, central led or individual and very few countries are actually mentioned in any way outside data graphs (Norway, Sweden and Belgium). You can even go interactive map that shows you Irish kids have good access to computers, internet and quiet place to study. Not to mention this was written in June.

Don't post links that you don't even look at in hope that neither will anyone else.

Just what I was about to point out.

irishblessing · 07-10-2020 2:14pm

Lillyfae wrote: »

Just what I was about to point out.

Are you the poster who lives in Holland, or am I mixing you up with someone else?

Schools closed until February? (part 3)

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