Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

Stormyteacup · 17-04-2021 10:00am

VeryWise wrote: »

Why should people that arrive in the airport and are vaccinated or have a negative PCR test need to isolate at home let alone MHQ, if elite athletes are free to go normally and positive cases in Ireland are not quarantined?

The common variants are here, if we want stop new ones then we need to seal the border and hope we don’t brew a variant ourselves. We are spending billions, cancelling other health services and many cheer on expensive measures that achieve very little. Either do it 100% like Australia etc. or drop it. MHQ for some arrivals is like sleeping around and only using a condom when the new partner has come from outside Ireland, unless they are an athlete of course, then you don’t need a condom.

Yes agree with you. Last I read there were 18 positive cases since MHQ began, and I don’t know how many went through so far, maybe 500 or so?

CSO figures show for February this year we had 50,000 arrivals into Ireland. Even if a new deadly variant emerged (and didn’t brew here) there’s no chance MHQ would keep it out. Utterly futile vanity project, and a massive waste of time and resources when DOH should be focused on vaccine rollout.

maestroamado · 17-04-2021 10:41am

Blut2 wrote: »

The media is partially to blame, for their repeatedly demanding MHQ be brought in. But the buck stops with our politicians. Instead of spending months "investigating" and "implementing" MHQ, all it would have taken was some of them to stand up and say "MHQ would be nice, but its not possible to bring in given our constitutional obligations to our citizens, our commitments to EU law, our economic reliance on FDI, and the practicalities of our open border with Northern Ireland".

If our Tanaiste/Taoiseach/Minister of Health had came out forcefully saying that then the matter would have been dropped from public debate within a week. It wouldn't have been popular initially, but it would have been honest. And in time that would have been seen as entirely reasonable, and their honesty would have gotten them praise.

Instead, they privately admitted they didn't want to bring in MHQ, drew the matter out for as long as possible, and eventually hesitantly implemented a system thats a complete farce. Vast sums of money are being wasted, the public image of Ireland with our trading partners is being tarnished, and individual Irish citizens who can't visit dying relatives are suffering life changing emotional damage. All because our leaders were afraid to stand up admit the unpopular truth to the public.

For me the media just report what is happening, unfortunately we have weak politicians and we need decisive people to make decisions and review every week or so. Opposition parties wanted MHQ and they got it because our decision makers said best medical advise etc.
I have said from the beginning EU should have taken a more active role in the area of Air travel and insisted all EU countries had clear travel guidelines for Air travel, then it is clear who can travel and the requirements on arrival and return.
For me really all we need is clarity. I do not expect the MHQ for EU citizens who have a clear test within 72 hours before travel be a runner...

17-04-2021 10:47am

Deleted User wrote: »

It doesn't matter. Answer the question. You've evaded two already this morning.

How can he without examing the methods and scenarios that presented themselves in that country?

Its impossible to answer such a vague and limited question. The fact that you think such an important part such as the actual country, speaks volumes about your research.

Fr_Dougal · 17-04-2021 11:03am

Restrictions for travellers arriving in Northern Ireland, finally some joined up thinking.

17-04-2021 11:10am

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Restrictions for travellers arriving in Northern Ireland, finally some joined up thinking.

What aspects are ‘joined up’?

IngazZagni · 17-04-2021 11:10am

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Restrictions for travellers arriving in Northern Ireland, finally some joined up thinking.

Except the Countries on the list are completely different and don't appear to have any European Countries on it. So not joined up at all really, just aligning themselves a bit more with England.

Fr_Dougal · 17-04-2021 11:21am

IngazZagni wrote: »

Except the Countries on the list are completely different and don't appear to have any European Countries on it. So not joined up at all really, just aligning themselves a bit more with England.

The countries are completely different? You haven’t seen the list so.

17-04-2021 11:27am

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

The countries are completely different? You haven’t seen the list so.

No USA or EU countries on the NI list. They are the countries that people are animated about, and the ones for which Belfast is most like to be used as a ‘back door’

Does anyone really care that Suriname or Malawi are common names on the list? The only countries of any relevance to us that are in common on that list are UAE, S Africa and Brazil

It’s copying the English list.....not joining up with Ireland in any way whatsoever

maestroamado · 17-04-2021 11:37am

I noticed that Vietnam was mentioned earlier but i cannot find why it came into this conversation..
I see Australia, NZ, China,Thailand and a few others seem to have no restrictions.
I assume this to mean they just need the 72 hour test...

17-04-2021 11:51am

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

How can he without examing the methods and scenarios that presented themselves in that country?

Its impossible to answer such a vague and limited question. The fact that you think such an important part such as the actual country, speaks volumes about your research.

It's a simple question. Can a country have zero-Covid without flight restrictions / mandatory quarantine? The specific country is irrelevant.

"speaks volumes about my research" my hole.

17-04-2021 11:59am

Deleted User wrote: »

It's a simple question. Can a country have zero-Covid without flight restrictions / mandatory quarantine? The specific country is irrelevant.

"speaks volumes about my research" my hole.

Its completely relevent. You are clearly attempting to corner him with a simplistic Q&A

But I shall play. Yes, possible A country could achieve this without forcing MHQ and banning flights into its sovereign land.

17-04-2021 12:06pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Its completely relevent. You are clearly attempting to corner him with a simplistic Q&A

But I shall play. Yes, possible A country could achieve this without forcing MHQ and banning flights into its sovereign land.

It is not relevant, and considering I talk about Vietnam so often, and have done for ten years, I assumed he knew. I've talked about it with him recently I think.

As for your answer to my question, I have no idea how you could possibly think that. But ok.

faceman · 17-04-2021 12:41pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It's a simple question. Can a country have zero-Covid without flight restrictions / mandatory quarantine? The specific country is irrelevant.

"speaks volumes about my research" my hole.

You're presenting a very simplistic view with your question. You're assuming Zero Covid is more than an idealistic goal. We know that if you dont prevent Covid getting in to a country in the first place, then you've no hope of achieving zero covid without incredibly strict and punitive eradication of community transmission, which is of course the elephant in the room in these conversations.

You also have to consider the impact that covid measures have on other aspects of public health and whether you like it or not, you have to consider economic and socio economic factors.

Ireland doesn't exist in a vacuum. Australia does and New Zealand does.

Even the experts that are often cited when justifying MHQ for all agree with zero Covid is not a realistic option for Ireland.

Btw, my question about your location was not antagonistic. Im not the young fella I was when I joined boards so my brain cells aren't as polished.

Here's my question for you.

Where do you draw the line? How long can and should a country park screening for other serious life threatening conditions such as cancer and heart disease, and curtail economic activity under the umbrella of zero covid before it becomes far more damaging long term than Covid itself? 1 year? 2, 5, 10? At what point do you weigh up the opportunity cost and measure zero covid as a success when other areas of life result in more serious long term impacts?

17-04-2021 1:07pm

faceman wrote: »

You're presenting a very simplistic view with your question. You're assuming Zero Covid is more than an idealistic goal. We know that if you dont prevent Covid getting in to a country in the first place, then you've no hope of achieving zero covid without incredibly strict and punitive eradication of community transmission, which is of course the elephant in the room in these conversations.

Vietnam has gotten rid of it four times, and I've only had three weeks of lockdown since this all started, and those three weeks were not as strict as any normal day in Ireland. Is locking down an apartment building or village for two weeks "strict and punitive" to you? Is proper contact tracing?

faceman wrote: »

Where do you draw the line? How long can and should a country park screening for other serious life threatening conditions such as cancer and heart disease, and curtail economic activity under the umbrella of zero covid before it becomes far more damaging long term than Covid itself? 1 year? 2, 5, 10? At what point do you weigh up the opportunity cost and measure zero covid as a success when other areas of life result in more serious long term impacts?

This is completely backwards. The point of zero-Covid is that those things don't have to be stopped. Regardless of the argument about whether or not it could have been achieved in Ireland, you're completely misrepresenting what zero-Covid looks like.

Ireland should have had a couple of Covid-19 hospitals and things carry on the same in others. Nurses work in one or the other.

17-04-2021 1:41pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As for your answer to my question, I have no idea how you could possibly think that. But ok.

They exist. Thats subject to fluctuation of course. They may not be free next week and so on....

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ireland should have had a couple of Covid-19 hospitals and things carry on the same in others. Nurses work in one or the other.

Which ones? How would it work if a patient tested positive. Moved? What about staff?

We should clearly have more hospital beds, icu beds and staff at this stage and it would hurt the economy far less

17-04-2021 1:55pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Which ones? How would it work if a patient tested positive. Moved? What about staff?

Yeah, I'm done with this thread. It's like arguing with depression.

17-04-2021 1:58pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yeah, I'm done with this thread. It's like arguing with depression.

Because I asked you to explain your theory?

And pointed out that countries have achieved zero without the restrictions you mentioned?

Charles Babbage · 17-04-2021 2:10pm

faceman wrote: »

Where do you draw the line? How long can and should a country park screening for other serious life threatening conditions such as cancer and heart disease, and curtail economic activity under the umbrella of zero covid before it becomes far more damaging long term than Covid itself? 1 year? 2, 5, 10? At what point do you weigh up the opportunity cost and measure zero covid as a success when other areas of life result in more serious long term impacts?

Given our geographic location we are not New Zealand. But that said, in what way does reducing Covid prevent screening for other serious life threatening conditions such as cancer and heart disease? On the contrary, by ensuring that that hospitals are not bunged with Covid patients it ensures that these activities can continue.

saabsaab · 17-04-2021 2:16pm

Red Silurian wrote: »

That's essentially what this boils down to, if we could trust people to self-isolate then MHQ wouldn't be needed

Sadly as we have seen people can't be trusted

That sums it up alright.

Valhallapt · 17-04-2021 2:30pm

saabsaab wrote: »

That sums it up alright.

so is MHQ where we draw the line? We can't trust those in the community to isolate either, unless you're suggesting its just the foreigners we can't trust?

saabsaab · 17-04-2021 2:38pm

Valhallapt wrote: »

so is MHQ where we draw the line? We can't trust those in the community to isolate either, unless you're suggesting its just the foreigners we can't trust?

Stop putting words in my mouth. We can't trust people to do what's needed. Human nature I guess. There is even a (very small) element that goes outof their way to breach any regulation or measure.

Valhallapt · 17-04-2021 2:49pm

saabsaab wrote: »

Stop putting words in my mouth. We can't trust people to do what's needed. Human nature I guess. There is even a (very small) element that goes outof their way to breach any regulation or measure.

So do we draw the line at MHQ?

faceman · 17-04-2021 2:51pm

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Given our geographic location we are not New Zealand. But that said, in what way does reducing Covid prevent screening for other serious life threatening conditions such as cancer and heart disease? On the contrary, by ensuring that that hospitals are not bunged with Covid patients it ensures that these activities can continue.

Irish hospitals weren’t under pressure for most of last year and were under pressure for only a fraction of this year yet....

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/cancer-services-will-not-fully-resume-until-year-end-under-hse-s-pandemic-plan-1.4517265

saabsaab · 17-04-2021 2:56pm

Valhallapt wrote: »

So do we draw the line at MHQ?

IN spite of the issues it is the easiest place to draw it. I would go further but we don't have the resources to do so.

Valhallapt · 17-04-2021 3:00pm

saabsaab wrote: »

IN spite of the issues it is the easiest place to draw it. I would go further but we don't have the resources to do so.

Indulge me, what else would you do?

saabsaab · 17-04-2021 3:18pm

Valhallapt wrote: »

Indulge me, what else would you do?

Anyone who has tested positive for covid found visiting anywhere outside their home would get a large fine. Say 1,000 euro or if you prefer a % of your income.

Where there are clusters in an area surround it with checkpoints and only allow essential traffic, use the army if necessary.

Corholio · 17-04-2021 3:31pm

saabsaab wrote: »

Anyone who has tested positive for covid found visiting anywhere outside their home would get a large fine. Say 1,000 euro or if you prefer a % of your income.

Where there are clusters in an area surround it with checkpoints and only allow essential traffic, use the army if necessary.

But surely if they have tested positive they shouldn't need to be 'found' visiting, they should already be taken and quarantined?

saabsaab · 17-04-2021 4:29pm

Corholio wrote: »

But surely if they have tested positive they shouldn't need to be 'found' visiting, they should already be taken and quarantined?

Like I said resources..

Corholio · 17-04-2021 5:03pm

saabsaab wrote: »

Like I said resources..

Variants don't care about resources though.

saabsaab · 17-04-2021 5:09pm

Corholio wrote: »

Variants don't care about resources though.

Indeed they don't.

Corholio · 17-04-2021 5:15pm

saabsaab wrote: »

Indeed they don't.

People here who could have/has a 'variant' can walk around v a person who can test negative, have nothing and be forcefully quarantined. We are clearly not doing all we can to get these variants then.

NSAman · 17-04-2021 5:21pm

saabsaab wrote: »

Indeed they don't.

Saab just a question, when and if you get the vaccine, will you still be hiding away until the Covid pandemic has officially been declared finished?

I ask this not as an insult, but ask you how long you intend to have fear and stop living ?

Personally, there is a risk in every part of life, but it does not stop me trying to get back to normal, with obvious sanitation and hygiene protocols in place.

I have to, I have people to earn a living for, I have family in europe and the states I have to maintain, for me to shut down would mean all of that is at risk. I know many people have already lost everything due to this. It is something that I cannot allow to happen to those that depend on me facing issues and steering a clear path to keep them housed, fed and have a future.

If we live in fear, no one wins, if we shut down everything, everyone looses.

There has to be balance in everything that we do, to protect those that are vulnerable (which is happening) and to allow those people who need to work...to work.

maestroamado · 17-04-2021 5:24pm

I think we are the only Country in EU who are asking for MHQ for EU citizens.
Given the fact we have about 1% of EU population.
Are we making fools of ourselves...

beggars_bush · 17-04-2021 5:30pm

maestroamado wrote: »

I think we are the only Country in EU who are asking for MHQ for EU citizens.
Given the fact we have about 1% of EU population.
Are we making fools of ourselves...

No.
Large numbers of Brazilians and South Africans travelling in and out of the country usually

expectationlost · 17-04-2021 5:31pm

https://twitter.com/Orlaodo/status/1383457314921799687 full report https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0417/1210451-court-quarantine/

faceman · 17-04-2021 5:54pm

expectationlost wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Orlaodo/status/1383457314921799687 full report https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0417/1210451-court-quarantine/

“Lawfully detained”

As I said when it rolled out, they’re detention centres

17-04-2021 6:07pm

NSAman wrote: »

Saab just a question, when and if you get the vaccine, will you still be hiding away until the Covid pandemic has officially been declared finished?

I ask this not as an insult, but ask you how long you intend to have fear and stop living ?

Personally, there is a risk in every part of life, but it does not stop me trying to get back to normal, with obvious sanitation and hygiene protocols in place.

I have to, I have people to earn a living for, I have family in europe and the states I have to maintain, for me to shut down would mean all of that is at risk. I know many people have already lost everything due to this. It is something that I cannot allow to happen to those that depend on me facing issues and steering a clear path to keep them housed, fed and have a future.

If we live in fear, no one wins, if we shut down everything, everyone looses.

There has to be balance in everything that we do, to protect those that are vulnerable (which is happening) and to allow those people who need to work...to work.

Good column in the indo this morning about how so many of the Irish live in fear.

It beggars belief to me what is being put in place. Luckily by June myself and my entire family will be fully vaccinated (being able to avail of the UK and the US programmes), so fully intend to be in and out of Ireland, and making use of the EU passport.

I feel truly sorry for those with family and essential business in the US and across the EU who are going to get caught up in this seemingly for most of the rest of year

maestroamado · 17-04-2021 6:33pm

beggars_bush wrote: »

No.
Large numbers of Brazilians and South Africans travelling in and out of the country usually

My comment only concerned with EU..
So we are members there has to be rules but no quarantine.
Otherwise we better review where we at.
We members of EU and allow non EU (UK) to travel freely.
We did same for US troops in Shannon a few weeks ago.
What do we think we are at....

The rest of the world separate agenda for me...

caveat emptor · 17-04-2021 6:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Good column in the indo this morning about how so many of the Irish live in fear.

It beggars belief to me what is being put in place. Luckily by June myself and my entire family will be fully vaccinated (being able to avail of the UK and the US programmes), so fully intend to be in and out of Ireland, and making use of the EU passport.

I feel truly sorry for those with family and essential business in the US and across the EU who are going to get caught up in this seemingly for most of the rest of year

Best to live in hope. Hope that by taking strong measures now we don't have to close schools and hospitals like we did previously.

Much more costly in terms of lots of measures.

Charles Babbage · 17-04-2021 6:48pm

faceman wrote: »

Irish hospitals weren’t under pressure for most of last year and were under pressure for only a fraction of this year yet....

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/cancer-services-will-not-fully-resume-until-year-end-under-hse-s-pandemic-plan-1.4517265

But how will an increased number of Covid cases improve the situation?

saabsaab · 17-04-2021 6:57pm

expectationlost wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Orlaodo/status/1383457314921799687 full report https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0417/1210451-court-quarantine/

Good. Cleared up in spite of what many said here would happen.

faceman · 17-04-2021 6:58pm

Charles Babbage wrote: »

But how will an increased number of Covid cases improve the situation?

We need to move away at using cases as the sole measure. Look at cases versus hospital numbers at the moment. The groups at most risk of severe covid are vaccinated.

saabsaab · 17-04-2021 7:01pm

NSAman wrote: »

Saab just a question, when and if you get the vaccine, will you still be hiding away until the Covid pandemic has officially been declared finished?

I ask this not as an insult, but ask you how long you intend to have fear and stop living ?

Personally, there is a risk in every part of life, but it does not stop me trying to get back to normal, with obvious sanitation and hygiene protocols in place.

I have to, I have people to earn a living for, I have family in europe and the states I have to maintain, for me to shut down would mean all of that is at risk. I know many people have already lost everything due to this. It is something that I cannot allow to happen to those that depend on me facing issues and steering a clear path to keep them housed, fed and have a future.

If we live in fear, no one wins, if we shut down everything, everyone looses.

There has to be balance in everything that we do, to protect those that are vulnerable (which is happening) and to allow those people who need to work...to work.

I live in hope not fear. I think we will get out of this soon but only if we play our part and that means me and you not doing anything to increase risk. Opening up too early would be a big and costly mistake for us all on top of all that has been lost already. There is nothing to be gained in opening now or too soon. Like I have stated we may be in that position by June end. (barring a new variant)

Corholio · 17-04-2021 7:04pm

319 appeals since quarantine started and 22 of them successful with people being released. We haven't heard about 90% of these.

Interesting the judge said today that the status of persons immunity and prior infection was being looked at but no decision had been made yet. Unless we are glacially slow to decide, like a few things, I expect this to be yet another exception to quarantine in the near future.

Irish Aris · 17-04-2021 7:44pm

Corholio wrote: »

319 appeals since quarantine started and 22 of them successful with people being released. We haven't heard about 90% of these.

Interesting the judge said today that the status of persons immunity and prior infection was being looked at but no decision had been made yet. Unless we are glacially slow to decide, like a few things, I expect this to be yet another exception to quarantine in the near future.

It will be interesting.
I just talked to a friend who apparently is in MHQ at the moment. He was coming back from Croatia - but unfortunately had a 30 minute transit through France.
The funny thing is that he had covid approximately 3 months ago and at the moment he is immune to the virus (thus he hasn't gotten a vaccine yet), but still has to do the full 2 weeks of hotel quarantine.
The whole system definitely needs some fine tuning.

Cluedo Monopoly · 17-04-2021 8:55pm

Is India on the MHQ list? Covid seems to be out of control there now.

saabsaab · 17-04-2021 9:11pm

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Is India on the MHQ list? Covid seems to be out of control there now.

No not currently. It should be.

mmclo · 17-04-2021 9:18pm

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Is India on the MHQ list? Covid seems to be out of control there now.

Don't be silly, the Wallis and Futuna Islands were more important

17-04-2021 9:22pm

saabsaab wrote: »

There is nothing to be gained in opening now

Who did you consult with before making this statement on our behalf?

hmmm · 17-04-2021 9:28pm

Interesting reading further down the RTE report on the quarantine case in the courts. It seems to me that we are looking at a permanent lockdown of the country to keep out variants. I didn't vote for any government to do this.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0416/1210286-quarantine-high-court/

"She pointed to a report that NPHET received two days ago from another EU country which had an outbreak of the South African variant in a nursing home where everyone had been fully vaccinated. This was a major concern, she said."

Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

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