Strokestown Mod Note in Post #4461

the_syco · 16-12-2018 11:36pm

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Should have left the dogs out of it... Bastards

I'd say the dogs owner and a few friends will be back down for some revenge.

Billcarson wrote: »

Mr Taylor, a Castlerea native and close friend of Anthony, continued: “At about 8.30am on Tuesday we were aware that there could be an eviction. Anthony was trying to deal with the bank [KBC Bank] and he told them he was happy to pay them so much a month, at least €1,000.

“But KBC Bank wouldn’t do any discussions with him whatsoever.

“They’ve lived there for generations and they would have paid back what they could have afforded if they got a fair chance.”

If they're elderly, how much will they be realistically be able to pay back?

cameramonkey wrote: »

A bit like Gerry McCabe?

What? How is getting murdered by the IRA anything to do with this?

Billcarson wrote: »

Why don't you go and kiss your bank managers ass since your all for the banks. At least they tried to come to some sort of arrangement. Wtf is your problem.

Problem is that they probably owed a fcuktonne more than they were prepared to pay back.

Sean.3516 · 16-12-2018 11:36pm

end of the road wrote: »

they can defend themselves within reason, however one is also allowed to resist them given they are not the gards. only if one resists the police arresting or moving people on is there an issue.

it was unlawful and the law machinery will do it's work.

Why are they allowed to resist security guards doing their jobs? The Gardaí were there to make sure they didn’t use excessive force so obviously they were sanctioned to carry out forced evictions. It’s like saying you’ve the right to resist a bouncer when they throw you out of a pub

Mrsmum · 16-12-2018 11:39pm

ismat wrote: »

What a generous offer to repay at least a 1,000. How about paying back what is due. Or if they can’t make repayment sell some land , possibly the land they bought with the loan, and pay down some capital

The farm is their job as well as their home. By job I mean the means of making money. So if they sell off some land, the sale may not make enough to pay back the loan and now they are even less able to make repayments.

gandalf · 16-12-2018 11:40pm

Billcarson wrote: »

Why don't you go and kiss your bank managers ass since your all for the banks. At least they tried to come to some sort of arrangement. Wtf is your problem.

He's quite rightly pointing out that if you can't afford to pay a loan back then the institution who gave you the money in good faith have every right and even an obligation to recover their investment. We don't know the specifics of this case but it appears the issue has been going on a while without resolution. I'd be interested who was advising the evicted brothers? I too am interested as to why they didn't sell off some of the land to repay the loan?

As I said already the circumstances of the eviction need to be looked at, especially the sub contractors involved.

What really needs to be sorted is identifying the vigilantes who carried out the assaults this morning and prosecuting them. Otherwise we'll see this thugs getting emboldened further. I wonder is there any correlation with the hotel burned down in Moyville recently?

cameramonkey · 16-12-2018 11:40pm

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Why are they allowed to resist security guards doing their jobs? The Gardaí were there to make sure they didn’t use excessive force so obviously they were sanctioned to carry out forced evictions. It’s like saying you’ve the right to resist a bouncer when they throw you out of a pub

In the video they do not appear to be wearing either ID or security badges.

Is this not a legal requirement for security personnel?

Bonzo Delaney · 16-12-2018 11:40pm

34 pages and counting of speculation here ffs. Does anyone have the facts of what kicked this off
So far we only have
3 elderly siblings
3rd generation living on the land
never married
obviously done something to pee of the bank
Bank repossess
Locals didn't like the heavy handed approach by the banks security firm.
And supposedly threw them a welcome party last night.

Doesn't add up why they would borrow heavily against the farm.

backspin. · 16-12-2018 11:41pm

jmayo wrote: »

And will you be on at some stage in future bitching and moaning because you or your kids can't get a mortgage or can't afford the high interest rates.
The problem is not enough fooking freeloaders have been evicted.

So tough shyte if you took out a mortgage some other time ehh. :rolleyes:

I am sick and fooking tired of Irish people thinking that they have some god given fooking right to walk away from their debts scot free.

First it was because they were missled, because the ar** fell out of the property prices and the loans far outweighed the property value.
Now it appears farmers are somehow immune because they lived their for generations and because of a historical context ala 150 years ago.

We had one of the world's highest rates of mortgages in default yet we had one of the lowest repossession rates.

And do you know who carries the can for that.
It is the poor dumb bastards, the honest ones that break their ar**es every month to repay their loans.
It is not as some would play it some mythical banker that suffers, it is the ones whose interest rates are high, the ones whose bank charges are high.

Pay your fooking debts or else.

I agree. My problem was with the use of loyalist eviction squads. Surely there is a Dublin firm who could have done the eviction.

end of the road · 16-12-2018 11:41pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So the bank should be happy with getting " whatever the borrower can afford" and not what they are owed? That's not how debts work.

If you went in to withdraw 5000 from your savings tomorrow and the bank said "sorry but we cant afford that, we'll give you 50 a week instead and maybe the full amount after a year if we have it"
Presumably you'd say yeah that's grand?

coming to an arrangement to pay something is how a responsible lender would work, within reason obviously. at least 1000 euros however that could be more, is the figure it is claimed he was willing to pay the bank. so he was willing to pay. if it's a choice between the bank getting a lesser payment and us paying to house the evictee, the bank can take the lesser payment. they are more likely to get that money all be it later, then they may be now.

ismat wrote: »

What a generous offer to repay at least a 1,000. How about paying back what is due. Or if they can’t make repayment sell some land , possibly the land they bought with the loan, and pay down some capital

it's not always that simple nor always a viable option. selling land may in turn effect the viability of the business as there will be less output because there is less land to work which in turn means less income. if selling land was the best option to pay down debt then it would be the default option rather then trying to engage with the bank to reduce the payments.

BattleCorp · 16-12-2018 11:42pm

Bonzo Delaney wrote: »

34 pages and counting of speculation here ffs. Does anyone have the facts of what kicked this off
So far we only have
3 elderly siblings

Not really elderly. Two mid 50's and the other early 60's

ismat · 16-12-2018 11:43pm

Billcarson wrote: »

What's wrong with you people. The poor banks eh. They would shake you by the hand and stab you with the other. Bunch of mefeiners. Well I just hope this country changes and fights against the elite scum that are running it.

I couldn’t care less about the banks. I want people to pay back what they borrowed. Do you think you can borrow money and not pay it back and it has no effect on the vast majority of people who actually pay their debts and honour the agreements they signed ? Ever guy who is playing the system is treating the honest person as a c*nt and I am sick of it. I’m sick of paying for these parasites and I hope every single one of them gets what is coming to them

John Sacrimoni · 16-12-2018 11:44pm

Ian Gordon former UDA member owns the company that carried out this eviction.

venusdoom · 16-12-2018 11:44pm

Really sad for the future reading this thread, no wonder the country is as corrupt and money grabbing as it is going by some of the posts.

road_high · 16-12-2018 11:45pm

the_syco wrote: »

I'd say the dogs owner and a few friends will be back down for some revenge.

If they're elderly, how much will they be realistically be able to pay back?

What? How is getting murdered by the IRA anything to do with this?

Problem is that they probably owed a fcuktonne more than they were prepared to pay back.

It’s not about being “prepared” to pay back! Any loan agreement I’ve ever had was a set amount agreed and signed pre drawn down- there’s was no going back with “sorry, I’m now only prepared to pay half that I agreed to per month...”sorry huns

pablo128 · 16-12-2018 11:45pm

backspin. wrote: »

I agree. My problem was with the use of loyalist eviction squads. Surely there is a Dublin firm who could have done the eviction.

How do you know they are loyalists'?

Wildly Boaring · 16-12-2018 11:46pm

backspin. wrote: »

I agree. My problem was with the use of loyalist eviction squads. Surely there is a Dublin firm who could have done the eviction.

There aren't.

Your face ends up all over Facebook.
There's easier ways to make money.

So banks are having to bring in security firms.

ismat · 16-12-2018 11:46pm

end of the road wrote: »

coming to an arrangement to pay something is how a responsible lender would work, within reason obviously. at least 1000 euros however that could be more, is the figure it is claimed he was willing to pay the bank. so he was willing to pay. if it's a choice between the bank getting a lesser payment and us paying to house the evictee, the bank can take the lesser payment. they are more likely to get that money all be it later, then they may be now.

it's not always that simple nor always a viable option. selling land may in turn effect the viability of the business as there will be less output because there is less land to work which in turn means less income. if selling land was the best option to pay down debt then it would be the default option rather then trying to engage with the bank to reduce the payments.

They were quick enough to borrow the money to buy the land. Maybe a bit of planning earlier may of served them well

Mad_maxx · 16-12-2018 11:46pm

koheim wrote: »

This is just not true, and not the reason we pay 100% more in interest rates than rest of Europe. Do not defend the punitive high interest rates we have as this has nothing to do with this. Bank might want you to believe this is the reason.

So you want us to deny the bleedin obvious

road_high · 16-12-2018 11:47pm

venusdoom wrote: »

Really sad for the future reading this thread, no wonder the country is as corrupt and money grabbing as it is going by some of the posts.

Yes that’s what happens when a certain cohort think they have a god given right to walk away scot free from their debts all because the banks are evil etc...oh and can keep the assets the loan paid for in the place! For free

pablo128 · 16-12-2018 11:47pm

cameramonkey wrote: »

In the video they do not appear to be wearing either ID or security badges.

Is this not a legal requirement for security personnel?

The video is crap quality. The phone they used must be as old as the farm.

Arthur Daley · 16-12-2018 11:48pm

Billcarson wrote: »

What's wrong with you people. The poor banks eh. They would shake you by the hand and stab you with the other. Bunch of mefeiners. Well I just hope this country changes and fights against the elite scum that are running it.

Who owns the Banks? Deposits money there, works there?

For every rare member of 'the financial elite' there are probably millions of taxpayers, workers and depositors who get stiffed when people don't honour their debts.

It's handy for the financial elites to hide behind the human shield of millions of taxpayers, and pensioners. And then for left leaning politicians and media whores to try and lob grenades at the financial elite, a 'victimless crime', while they stick it to the man.

But somebody has to get up, work, pay taxes, and pay debts and that is the silent majority. Who are being shafted continuously by politicians, media and cute hoor opportunists in this country day in day out. left voiceless, and utterly taken for granted. For how much longer.

gandalf · 16-12-2018 11:48pm

Bonzo Delaney wrote: »

Doesn't add up why they would borrow heavily against the farm.

I would suspect that the loan may have been for more than just buying land. It's probably a Celtic tiger era quote, probably development related and that would make sense that selling off some land wouldn't discharge it. But you're right I am just speculating here as well.

Mad_maxx · 16-12-2018 11:48pm

bb12 wrote: »

farming loans are structured completely differently to regular mortgages. everyone understands that farming yields and hence profits can vary a lot from year to year, depending on weather etc. just look at the disastrous year the vegetable growers have had this year due to the drought. banks are aware of this and loan repayments are usually structured to cater for this. a farmer does not repay loans on a monthly basis but often a once yearly payment in a lot of cases.

Completely untrue.

gandalf · 16-12-2018 11:50pm

pablo128 wrote: »

How do you know they are loyalists'?

Social media speculation :rolleyes:

Lefty Bicek · 16-12-2018 11:51pm

John Sacrimoni wrote: »

Ian Gordon former UDA member owns the company that carried out this eviction.

https://www.facebook.com/landstealmaghaberry/posts/2038781392828692

References Ian Gordon, and a KBC eviction out of Balbriggan, last February.

Mike9832 · 16-12-2018 11:51pm

Crazy story

Bit confused

Why were the Gardai just standing and watching while the security team from the North battered the old man?

upandcumming · 16-12-2018 11:52pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

Not really elderly. Two mid 50's and the other early 60's

Exactly - it doesn't sound as good though!

Allinall · 16-12-2018 11:52pm

backspin. wrote: »

I agree. My problem was with the use of loyalist eviction squads. Surely there is a Dublin firm who could have done the eviction.

How do you know they were loyalists?

John Sacrimoni · 16-12-2018 11:53pm

Allinall wrote: »

How do you know they were loyalists?

IDG security firm, owned by an ex uda member.

Mrsmum · 16-12-2018 11:54pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Completely untrue.

This from AIB website

"Repayments that match your farm cashflow.
Repayment schedules (monthly, quarterly or half-yearly) may be structured to the high output months."

Allinall · 16-12-2018 11:55pm

John Sacrimoni wrote: »

IDG security firm, owned by ex uda member.

So no evidence they were loyalists.

Glad you cleared that up.

Billcarson · 16-12-2018 11:56pm

Arthur Daley wrote: »

But somebody has to get up, work, pay taxes, and pay debts and that is the silent majority. Who are being shafted continuously by politicians, media and cute hoor opportunists in this country day in day out. left voiceless, and utterly taken for granted. For how much longer.

Can't argue with that.

John Sacrimoni · 16-12-2018 11:57pm

Allinall wrote: »

So no evidence they were loyalists.

Glad you cleared that up.

What more evidence do you want you absolute cabbage.. Look at the video posted last page. The man himself at another KBC eviction recently.

end of the road · 17-12-2018 12:00am

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Why are they allowed to resist security guards doing their jobs? The Gardaí were there to make sure they didn’t use excessive force so obviously they were sanctioned to carry out for ced evictions. It’s like saying you’ve the right to resist a bouncer when they throw you out of a pub

because they are private individuals and not state law enforcement. even if sanctioned to cary out forced evictions they do not enjoy any rights compared to the gards so therefore the rules that apply to the gards do not apply. therefore you can resist them perfectly morally.

ismat wrote: »

They were quick enough to borrow the money to buy the land. Maybe a bit of planning earlier may of served them well

the bank were likely quick to give them the money as well.

eagle eye · 17-12-2018 12:00am

jmayo wrote:

I am sick and fooking tired of Irish people thinking that they have some god given fooking right to walk away from their debts scot free.

Well I lost two houses in the crash. I didn't kick up a stink. I was very ill at the time and unable to work. I was too sick to sort out getting people to rent the houses. I had both of them rented before I got sick. I was out of action for four years and ended up owing the bank 19 k with nothing to show for it. I paid it off and I'm getting on with my life. I was lucky in the end though because I got letters and emails from the bank telling me that I was 'pre-approved' for another â‚¬270k mortgage, if I'd have taken them up on that things would have been so much worse for me financially. If that had of happened I'd be blaming the bank because they were trying to push me into it.

pablo128 · 17-12-2018 12:00am

John Sacrimoni wrote: »

What more evidence do you want you absolute cabbage.. Look at the video posted last page. The man himself at another KBC eviction recently.

.https://photos.app.goo.gl/r6jCgT3JVTXkySur9
Fcuking ghurkas. I knew it. You couldn't be trusting them lads at all. And all the time the poor loyalists' getting the blame.

Bonzo Delaney · 17-12-2018 12:02am

upandcumming wrote: »

Exactly - it doesn't sound as good though!

Bit of a better understanding now with those ages as in they could of been mid 40s 50s when the loan was taken out

Lefty Bicek · 17-12-2018 12:07am

John Sacrimoni wrote: »

What more evidence do you want you absolute cabbage.. Look at the video posted last page. The man himself at another KBC eviction recently.

The balaclavas came out of the drawer for their visit to Dublin a few months ago.

https://davelordanwriter.com/2018/09/12/take-back-the-city-condemns-actions-of-garda-and-private-security-firm-during-eviction-of-occupants-at-34-north-frederick-street/

John Sacrimoni · 17-12-2018 12:07am

pablo128 wrote: »

.https://photos.app.goo.gl/r6jCgT3JVTXkySur9
Fcuking ghurkas. I knew it. You couldn't be trusting them lads at all. And all the time the poor loyalists' getting the blame.

What part of 'in Afghanistan' do you not understand?

Jeff2 · 17-12-2018 12:07am

If I get a bank loan then I have to pay it back.
If that lone is secured by the farm I own then the bank have a right to take that if I default on the lone.
Both sides are bad in this case.

How the hell are people saying that people that are not paying should still allowed stay there.

Omackeral · 17-12-2018 12:07am

Billcarson wrote: »

Why don't you go and kiss your bank managers ass since your all for the banks.

Poster states how a bank fundamentally works, gets accused of kissing bank's asses. This is the level of debate we're dealing with.

ismat · 17-12-2018 12:09am

end of the road wrote: »

because they are private individuals and not state law enforcement. even if sanctioned to cary out forced evictions they do not enjoy any rights compared to the gards so therefore the rules that apply to the gards do not apply. therefore you can resist

the bank were likely quick to give them the money as well.

Banks exist to take deposits and issue loans, and make a profit from same. If they asked the bank for a loan the bank would of evaluated the risk and granted the loan based on this application and the security they could obtain. The loan clearly has gone bad. Why would you think the bank should not be able to enforce their security? Business is business.

the_syco · 17-12-2018 12:12am

Bonzo Delaney wrote: »

Doesn't add up why they would borrow heavily against the farm.

Milk prices were good at the time. When it tanked, their planned payments probably nosedived.

John Sacrimoni wrote: »

What more evidence do you want you absolute cabbage.. Look at the video posted last page. The man himself at another KBC eviction recently.

Members of Sinn Fein were once IRA terrorists (convicted bomb makers, etc). By your logic, all members of Sinn Fein are current IRA terrorists.

Omackeral · 17-12-2018 12:13am

backspin. wrote: »

I agree. My problem was with the use of loyalist eviction squads. Surely there is a Dublin firm who could have done the eviction.

Their faces and addresses would be doing the rounds on social media if that was the case, like the gardai in Summerhill. If they donned balaclavas to prevent that, they'd be called paramilitaries. Sure the ones from this case are called it on here anyway! You can't win no matter what.

blueythebear · 17-12-2018 12:16am

I've since seen the videos doing the rounds... it seems that on Tuesday, the occupants knew somehow the bank was coming so there was more than three "elderly" people there. It seems that they tried some half hearted resistance and thats what led to people being forcibly removed.

All this talk of PSA Licenses etc means nothing. Its irrelevant that PSA licenses are not on display or even if they exist. It should be stressed that the Gardai watched the entire eviction and did not intervene so to my mind, that's an endorsement of the security guys actions in the circumstances (which you don't see in the videos).

If they were willing to pay €1000 per month, how did the bank get a Court Order ? It is incredibly difficult to get a court order for possession in this country and I cannot buy the narrative being pushed on social media. It actually does not make any sense to any reasonable person.

P_1 · 17-12-2018 12:17am

Another concerning thing to consider is just how many loans were given based on milk prices continuing to rise and are now on shaky ground.

In light of the nonsense coming out of England is our capacity to produce our own food at risk due to this? I can't imagine too much milk was produced on that farm last week and the prospect of more being produced there is limited in the short term

Omackeral · 17-12-2018 12:17am

Allinall wrote: »

How do you know they were loyalists?

John Sacrimoni wrote: »

IDG security firm, owned by an ex uda member.

Don't forget the facial hair.

Lefty Bicek · 17-12-2018 12:18am

blueythebear wrote: »

All this talk of PSA Licenses etc means nothing. Its irrelevant that PSA licenses are not on display or even if they exist. It should be stressed that the Gardai watched the entire eviction and did not intervene so to my mind, that's an endorsement of the security guys actions in the circumstances (which you don't see in the videos).

Is it a requirement for security personnel to have identification visible when they are at work ?

Hammar · 17-12-2018 12:21am

The Debt Collection agencies identity has been well shared on social media and is run by an ex UDR member. It's based in a town in Antrim.

mikeym · 17-12-2018 12:25am

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Are the people on this forum at least in agreement that it was wrong and unlawful for a gang to assault the security men after the initial eviction?

You mean hired thugs?

These people are not saints by any means.

17-12-2018 12:27am

Regardless of loans etc, this has set a very dangerous precedent. For some unusual reason whilst we are in the middle of a massive boom loads of people are really angry. This is the kind of nonsense that will prove a rallying cry to the folk who are just agitating for trouble. The authorities would want to tread very carefully here.

Strokestown **Mod Note in Post #4461**

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Strokestown Mod Note in Post #4461