Shelbourne Hotel remove historic statues due to association with slavery - *Read OP**

The J Stands for Jay · 29-07-2020 3:24pm

Montage of Feck wrote: »

The statues were hardly there as a celebration of slavery were they now?

They did have gold shackles and chains on their ankles.

Strumms · 29-07-2020 3:27pm

Extremist views with to the right or left of an argument are toxic, purposeless and when you are that ‘far gone’ to either side you don’t hear or see anything apart from your own viewpoint which is not a reasonable position to find yourself in.

statesaver · 29-07-2020 3:35pm

Danzy wrote: »

They are highly religious.

The left used be political, it is now a faith.

A cult more like.

punisher5112 · 29-07-2020 3:38pm

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Why bother starting again? The same fu**heads will still exist afterwards.

Oh don't I know it;-)

Rodney Bathgate · 29-07-2020 3:47pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Oh don't I know it;-)

Unless we go full on Khmer Rouge Year Zero.

Zebra3 · 29-07-2020 3:54pm

The extremist views are those who don't want to highlight the crimes of slavery and colonialism.

Actually, that's not quite right, highlight the crimes of slavery and colonialism of Germany, but not of Britain and the US.

yourdeadwright · 29-07-2020 3:54pm

When are we taking the pyramids down there built by slaves,
Its a disgrace I tell you a disgrace

Zebra3 · 29-07-2020 3:58pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

When are we taking the pyramids down there built by slaves,
Its a disgrace I tell you a disgrace

https://harvardmagazine.com/2003/07/who-built-the-pyramids-html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/jan/11/great-pyramid-tombs-slaves-egypt

Well done. :rolleyes:

hullaballoo · 29-07-2020 4:29pm

Irish Times reporting that this is being looked at by the Planning Enforcement Division of Dublin City Council because clearly as a listed building any changes to the protected facade including fittings and fixtures would need planning permission.

The planning department are unlikely to accede to the removals given how protective they are even of bog standard iron railings.

keano_afc · 29-07-2020 4:38pm

Why dont they take some people in from direct provision centres for a few days, just to show how contrite they really are.

NasserShammaz · 29-07-2020 4:40pm

Green Party MEP Ciarán Cuffe, meanwhile, said that instead of the statues being removed there should have been “a period of public consultation” about it.

Cuffe later apologised saying: “As an urban planner I should know planning can suppress as well as liberate, my bad.”

What a dickhead "my bad" what is he an America high school pupil...

Yellow_Fern · 29-07-2020 4:42pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

https://harvardmagazine.com/2003/07/who-built-the-pyramids-html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/jan/11/great-pyramid-tombs-slaves-egypt

Well done. :rolleyes:

Ancient Egypt was rife with chattel slaves. Yes the guys who designed the pyramids were not lads in chains being whipped to death but a lot of the wealth of that civilization was generated with stolen labour.

hullaballoo wrote: »

Irish Times reporting that this is being looked at by the Planning Enforcement Division of Dublin City Council because clearly as a listed building any changes to the protected facade including fittings and fixtures would need planning permission.

The planning department are unlikely to accede to the removals given how protective they are even of bog standard iron railings.

We are losing protected heritage all the time. Even the council doesn't respect planning rules. Hope we keep them. Too much of Dublin has been lost. Give Dublin Civic Trust a follow and support our heritage. https://twitter.com/dubcivictrust?lang=en

29-07-2020 4:55pm

An art expert on Newstalk speaking about the absurdity of associating "beautiful decorative statues" with the BLM movement or human rights at large. He calls their removal a "regrettable move" and that we'll "end up like the Taliban" if statues continue to be torn down without appreciating their original context. A rational man talking sense, heaven forfend.

ChikiChiki · 29-07-2020 5:01pm

Sick of this nonsense. Utterly idiotic to remove the statues and the wider attempt to wipe out history.

JimmyVik · 29-07-2020 5:04pm

The only answer at this stage is to switch off the internet.
Its just full of mobs who want to gang up and bully others.
Switch it off and be done with it. It just enables bullies.

Zebra3 · 29-07-2020 5:14pm

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Ancient Egypt was rife with chattel slaves. Yes the guys who designed the pyramids were not lads in chains being whipped to death but a lot of the wealth of that civilization was generated with stolen labour.

What has that got to do with the claim that the pyramids were built by slaves?

Correct, nothing.

JimmyVik · 29-07-2020 5:19pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

What has that got to do with the claim that the pyramids were built by slaves?

Correct, nothing.

Did someone say the pyramids werent built by slaves? Surely everyone knows they were.

The Belly · 29-07-2020 5:26pm

Overheal wrote: »

Like what, leaving Nazi statues in the Berlin city center?

There’s a proper place for history and it’s not always in positions of honor.

Right so better sort out the colosseum in rome cant leave that there given what went on inside it.:rolleyes:

Odhinn · 29-07-2020 5:56pm

JimmyVik wrote: »

Did someone say the pyramids werent built by slaves? Surely everyone knows they were.

Hollywood gave the notion popularity. The truth is entirely different
https://harvardmagazine.com/2003/07/who-built-the-pyramids-html

JimmyVik · 29-07-2020 5:59pm

Odhinn wrote: »

Hollywood gave the notion popularity. The truth is entirely different
https://harvardmagazine.com/2003/07/who-built-the-pyramids-html

There are people who think slaves didnt build the pyramids.
Wow.

tayto lover · 29-07-2020 6:28pm

hullaballoo wrote: »

Irish Times reporting that this is being looked at by the Planning Enforcement Division of Dublin City Council because clearly as a listed building any changes to the protected facade including fittings and fixtures would need planning permission.

The planning department are unlikely to accede to the removals given how protective they are even of bog standard iron railings.

Ha ha no way will they take on the American owners. We all know that. No way.
Different if your a poor old Paddy though.

Gradius · 29-07-2020 6:48pm

Some complete randomer calls over to my home and, for some inexplicable reason, I invited them in for a cup of tea just because they asked, that's nice.

If said randomer starts aggressively demanding that I remodel my home to suit them, having been invited in only 5 minutes before, a crippling boot up the hole followed by immediate expulsion is on the cards.

And rightly so.

Who cares if I never moved a certain cup before? So what if I didn't notice it before? Try to throw my property in the bin and you'll know all about it.

KevRossi · 29-07-2020 6:51pm

Hypothetical question:

This building on Sean McDermott St. used to be a Magdalene Laundry. The site itself has a huge footprint and enquiries have been made before from developers to knock it down and build apartments on it. They tried before and didn't get permission as it's a listed building.

Surely they (or anyone else) can now say that the building is offensive because of it's past and demolish it, thus doing away with the whole 'listed building' status. If the removal of the statues is allowed, then surely anybody can remove whatever they want now? Bertie would cream himself if that happened.

Gradius · 29-07-2020 6:58pm

KevRossi wrote: »

Hypothetical question:

This building on Sean McDermott St. used to be a Magdalene Laundry. The site itself has a huge footprint and enquiries have been made before from developers to knock it down and build apartments on it. They tried before and didn't get permission as it's a listed building.

Surely they (or anyone else) can now say that the building is offensive because of it's past and demolish it, thus doing away with the whole 'listed building' status. If the removal of the statues is allowed, then surely anybody can remove whatever they want now? Bertie would cream himself if that happened.

I know what you mean, I do.

But this is the wrong way to go about this. Trying to rationalize with irrational people only makes you weaker.

It's very simple. I won't be dictated to by outsiders. That's the end of the story.

If some person wants to live in filth and squalor in their OWN home, let them.

If some person starts ordering me about in MY home, it's just not going to go well. If I like walking around naked in my home screaming, well that's what I'll do, and I won't justify it to anyone else or rationalize it with anyone else.

JupiterKid · 29-07-2020 6:59pm

The move by the owners and management of the Shelbourne is utterly ridiculous and this “woke” nonsense has gone too far.

I’m delighted that the planning dept of Dublin City Council will be investigating this breach of planning regulations. I would imagine that the Shelbourne will be forced to reinstate the statues.

On a cynical level I can’t help but think that this move was a publicity stunt by the Shelbourne to generate business for the hotel.

nullzero · 29-07-2020 7:09pm

JupiterKid wrote: »

On a cynical level I can’t help but think that his move was a publicity stunt by the Shelbourne to generate business for the hotel.

They'd have to go fully vegan and recruit a diversity officer before they'd receive custom from the type of clientele removing those statues would attract.

Strumms · 29-07-2020 7:15pm

JupiterKid wrote: »

The move by the owners and management of the Shelbourne is utterly ridiculous and this “woke” nonsense has gone too far.

I’m delighted that the planning dept of Dublin City Council will be investigating this breach of planning regulations. I would imagine that the Shelbourne will be forced to reinstate the statues.

On a cynical level I can’t help but think that his move was a publicity stunt by the Shelbourne to generate business for the hotel.

You’ll probably just have the planning laws changed to suit this rabble.

RandomName2 · 29-07-2020 7:26pm

JimmyVik wrote: »

There are people who think slaves didnt build the pyramids.
Wow.

Regardless of whether the pyramids of GIza were built by slaves or paid workers, slavery was definitely a significant part of Ancient Egypt, and slaves were used for building massive temples.

Relevant to the Shelbourne Hotel, Nubian slaves were in particular a feature of ancient Egypt. You can see them depicted in the following pieces of art that date from the period.

Kivaro · 29-07-2020 7:28pm

Anyone want to guess what Irish-hating person jumped on the statue removal bandwagon?

None other but Dr Ebun Joseph, head of black studies at UCD. Of course, it was RTE who immediately ran to her for comment ........... like they do when they generally want to show how racist us white Irish are. She told RTE that "she applauds the Shelbourne Hotel in Dublin for removing the statues from outside its premises."

I wonder if Ebun talked about the existing practice of what the hotel statues depicted, which is the continued slavery of blacks in Africa by other blacks. It has been going on for thousands of years.
Wonder if RTE asked her about it, since it was relevant to the Nubian discussion?
(Please stop laughing out loud at the ludicrous notion of impartial questions by RTE on matters like this.)

Odhinn · 29-07-2020 7:39pm

Kivaro wrote: »

Anyone want to guess what Irish-hating person jumped on the statue removal bandwagon?

None other but Dr Ebun Joseph, head of black studies at UCD. Of course, it was RTE who immediately ran to her for comment ....

Do you have evidence/quotes from her, showing her to be "Irish-hating"?

imme · 29-07-2020 7:39pm

The lamp standards should have been left were they were.

They are works of art not cultural expressions.

All round b lack expert Dr Ebun Joseph was wheeled out by RTE to give her definitive view.

She will give umar al quadri a run for his money as the go to quick quote person.

KiKi III · 29-07-2020 7:42pm

Did anyone actually care about these statues before the Shelbourne said they were getting rid of them?

I've walked past the Shelbourne a hundred times and never noticed it. Won't make any difference to my life whatsoever.

imme · 29-07-2020 7:43pm

KiKi III wrote: »

Did anyone actually care about these statues before the Shelbourne said they were getting rid of them?

I've walked past the Shelbourne a hundred times and never noticed it. Won't make any difference to my life whatsoever.

They were intrinsic to the facade imo.

Galwayguy35 · 29-07-2020 7:46pm

Odhinn wrote: »

Do you have evidence/quotes from her, showing her to be "Irish-hating"?

Look at her twitter, day in day out criticising our country.

A country by the way that she came knocking on the door to and begging to be let in.

Sure they even made up a 100 k a year job for her as well

KiKi III · 29-07-2020 7:47pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Look at her twitter, day in day out criticising our country.

A country by the way that she came knocking on the door to begging to be let in to.

Sure they even made up a 100 k a year job for her as well

Dem foreigners shud be greatful we let dem in in da furst place.

Dyr · 29-07-2020 7:47pm

KiKi III wrote: »

Did anyone actually care about these statues before the Shelbourne said they were getting rid of them?

I've walked past the Shelbourne a hundred times and never noticed it. Won't make any difference to my life whatsoever.

They were impossible not to notice..unless you walk around with head up your arse..seems to be a lot of that around these days.

AudreyHepburn · 29-07-2020 7:51pm

Political correctness gone mad in my opinion. These statues have been an integral part of the facade of the Shelbourne for over 100 years and are clearly based on Ancient Egyptian artworks. They were created at a time when interest in Ancient Egypt was growing.

To say they were there as an endorsement of slavery is naive at best.

Galwayguy35 · 29-07-2020 7:52pm

KiKi III wrote: »

Dem foreigners shud be greatful we let dem in in da furst place.

You're right they should.

29-07-2020 7:52pm

KiKi III wrote: »

Did anyone actually care about these statues before the Shelbourne said they were getting rid of them?

I've walked past the Shelbourne a hundred times and never noticed it. Won't make any difference to my life whatsoever.

Does anyone "care" about any art or culture on a daily basis? Apathy is the poorest argument I can think of to justify its removal.

DelaneyIn · 29-07-2020 7:53pm

KiKi III wrote: »

Dem foreigners shud be greatful we let dem in in da furst place.

She came her via asylum, got leave to remain, we paid for her to study in Ireland, gave her housing and now she spends her whole day lecturing us on how racist we are. Even ribena is racist to that lunatic.

We should have deported her when she arrived on her bogus asylum claim. It would have saved us a lot of money and headaches. We have literally given her everything and get no thanks for it. The opposite, in fact.

Rececently she was on Newstalk to demand that To kill a mocking bird be taken out of schools. Then said she'd never read it. A real beaut.

Yellow_Fern · 29-07-2020 7:57pm

DelaneyIn wrote: »

She came her via asylum, got leave to remain, we paid for her to study in Ireland, gave her housing and now she spends her whole day lecturing us on how racist we are. Even ribena is racist to that lunatic.

We should have deported her when she arrived on her bogus asylum claim. It would have saved us a lot of money and headaches. We have literally given her everything and get no thanks for it. The opposite, in fact.

Rececently she was on Newstalk to demand that To kill a mocking bird be taken out of schools. Then said she'd never read it. A real beaut.

if she was a real scholar but she isnt. I had a stronger CV in the second year of my PhD.

whisky_galore · 29-07-2020 7:57pm

KiKi III wrote: »

Did anyone actually care about these statues before the Shelbourne said they were getting rid of them?

I've walked past the Shelbourne a hundred times and never noticed it. Won't make any difference to my life whatsoever.

The things that you don't notice walking past hundred times everyday could fill volumes.

Hope the planning dept send them a reprimand and they have to put them back.

Gradius · 29-07-2020 8:00pm

KiKi III wrote: »

Did anyone actually care about these statues before the Shelbourne said they were getting rid of them?

I've walked past the Shelbourne a hundred times and never noticed it. Won't make any difference to my life whatsoever.

Very silly outlook on life.

Those books you haven't read in a while? I'm throwing them out.

That piece of jewellery you wear on special occasions once a decade? Sure you won't mind if I pocket that.

That spare room you never use? I'll demolish that for you.

That back seat in the car you used once in your life? I'll be ripping that out.

That library in laois you've never been to? Bulldozer time.

Ever been to madagascar or care about it? Well that'll be getting sunk into the Indian ocean, no loss to you.

The point, in case it escapes you, is that it doesn't matter if you don't care about THAT thing, because eventually they will come for something you DO care about. And it is always about taking away, always. Never an addition.

goose2005 · 29-07-2020 8:00pm

Odhinn wrote: »

Hollywood gave the notion popularity. The truth is entirely different
https://harvardmagazine.com/2003/07/who-built-the-pyramids-html

Most likely it was a mixture of free labourers (the skilled stonemasons, planners and architects) and slaves (doing the lifting and carrying and gruntwork) - the latter would not be mentioned in historical records much

goose2005 · 29-07-2020 8:03pm

KevRossi wrote: »

Hypothetical question:

This building on Sean McDermott St. used to be a Magdalene Laundry. The site itself has a huge footprint and enquiries have been made before from developers to knock it down and build apartments on it. They tried before and didn't get permission as it's a listed building.

Surely they (or anyone else) can now say that the building is offensive because of it's past and demolish it, thus doing away with the whole 'listed building' status. If the removal of the statues is allowed, then surely anybody can remove whatever they want now? Bertie would cream himself if that happened.

All the big houses down the country are associated with the exploitation of the Irish people for centuries, so now we can destroy them with impunity. In fact, pretty much every castle or city wall can be tied in with the dispossession and oppression of the indigenous Irish people.

Lord Shelburne himself inherited huge estates in Co. Kerry, which of course had been seized from the natives in the centuries prior, who were reduced to near-slavery and starvation working to make him rich and powerful. Really the Shelbourne Hotel ought to change its name and stop commemorating our colonial oppressor.

29-07-2020 8:14pm

goose2005 wrote: »

All the big houses down the country are associated with the exploitation of the Irish people for centuries, so now we can destroy them with impunity. In fact, pretty much every castle or city wall can be tied in with the dispossession and oppression of the indigenous Irish people.

The people who support this type of thing simply aren't intelligent enough to deal with this type of argument. It's why it's impossible to debate with them.

They cannot grasp ideas and instead focus solely on events and people. They cannot see a bigger picture of what some event represents or is indicative of and work on it from that angle.

It's always a simple "I like that specific thing because it aligns with my current beliefs so I support it."

It is abhorrent to support the removal of statues from the 1800s because you didn't care about them or notice them walking by. The act of removing something requires more caring about a topic than leaving it alone. To justify its removal by saying you don't care is incredible. It's a logical paradox.

whisky_galore · 29-07-2020 8:19pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The people who support this type of thing simply aren't intelligent enough to deal with this type of argument. It's why it's impossible to debate with them.

They cannot grasp ideas and instead focus solely on events and people. They cannot see a bigger picture of what some event represents or is indicative of and work on it from that angle.

It's always a simple "I like that specific thing because it aligns with my current beliefs so I support it."

It is abhorrent to support the removal of statues from the 1800s because you didn't care about them or notice them walking by. The act of removing something requires more caring about a topic than leaving it alone. To justify its removal by saying you don't care is incredible. It's a logical paradox.

I wouldn't waste my time, poster is clearly on the wind up or is some kind of half wit.

Spanish Eyes · 29-07-2020 8:21pm

Who cares really?

Sad to see the iconic lamp holders and their slaves go, but who really cares overall.

I hope the Nubian Female overlords and their slaves from 3k years ago survive somewhere else. This shyte is beyond belief now, but there are forces around that subliminally tell us what is correct from their viewpoint all the time.

I'm having none of it.

Rodney Bathgate · 29-07-2020 8:23pm

KiKi III wrote: »

Dem foreigners shud be greatful we let dem in in da furst place.

Correct. She can feck off back to Nigeria if she thinks Ireland is such a racist dump.

29-07-2020 8:32pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

I wouldn't waste my time, poster is clearly on the wind up or is some kind of half wit.

The way I've started dealing with it is by associating posters with people I knew in school, be that good or bad. I have to go back that far to get a broad range of people I can compare them to.

I've spent far too long thinking people on here were people like myself but just with different viewpoints. They're not.

Shelbourne Hotel remove historic statues due to association with slavery - *Read OP**

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