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Shelbourne Hotel remove historic statues due to association with slavery - *Read OP**

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    #1112
    Yellow_Fern
    Registered Users Posts: 2,578 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    I was at mass and I admired the church's stature of St. Martin de Porres, a black man. It got me thinking that it is one of the only Irish examples of specific Africans. You also have Black Johnny associated with Edmund Rice too. Luckly these are not found as outdoor statues that could be targeted.


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    #1113
    1990sman
    Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭1990sman


    Yellow_Fern wrote: »
    I was at mass and I admired the church's stature of St. Martin de Porres, a black man. It got me thinking that it is one of the only Irish examples of specific Africans. You also have Black Johnny associated with Edmund Rice too. Luckly these are not found as outdoor statues that could be targeted.


    alot of African contribution to sainthood,



    from wiki
    Augustine of Hippo, also known as Saint Augustine, was a theologian, philosopher, and the bishop of Hippo Regius in Numidia, Roman North Africa. His writings influenced the development of Western philosophy and Western Christianity, and he is viewed as one of the most important Church Fathers of the Latin Church in the Patristic Period.


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    #1114
    1990sman
    Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭1990sman


    also a big fan of his line "lord make me chaste...but not today" :)


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    #1115
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    1990sman wrote: »
    alot of African contribution to sainthood,



    from wiki
    Augustine of Hippo, also known as Saint Augustine, was a theologian, philosopher, and the bishop of Hippo Regius in Numidia, Roman North Africa. His writings influenced the development of Western philosophy and Western Christianity, and he is viewed as one of the most important Church Fathers of the Latin Church in the Patristic Period.

    He was a Berber from whats now Algeria, so more Zinedine Zidane than Didier Drogba.


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    #1116
    conorhal
    Registered Users Posts: 6,986 ✭✭✭conorhal


    So.. The Shelbourne's 30 days to respond with a defence of a complaint of breaching planning laws passed about 3 weeks ago.
    Has there been any further word on what is happening or has happened regards the statues?

    All I see is a claim that statues that have stood there for a century are now too valuable to put back on display?
    Since the replicas that used to reside in the bar have alread been sold, I have a strong suspicion that the real motivator behind the sudden decision to remove the statues probably has something to do with their value as much as the controversy, 300 grand is a pretty penny for a business that's got to be mostly shut down these days...

    "If they ever go back on their plinths, they'll need a 24-hour guard," says fine arts expert Ian Whyte. "They would be vulnerable to both theft and vandalism." Whyte is one of the city's most respected art valuation experts and a long serving fine arts auctioneer. He has estimated the current sale value of the four at between €200,000 and €300,000."

    Also, a pox on that abnoxious busybody Niall O'Dowd for starting this whole thing with his interfering. That 'Voice of Irish America' should shut his trap in future.


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    #1117
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    Send Senator McDowell an email, as this seems like an issue he'll take on. Curious to find out myself


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    #1118
    Varik
    Registered Users Posts: 12,500 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    They got themselves another 4 weeks after the last deadline.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/shelbourne-hotel-granted-extra-time-to-investigate-statue-removal-1.4341134


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    #1119
    fly_agaric
    Registered Users Posts: 4,810 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Has it appeared in the media where the statues are now?
    Are they gracing the back garden of some US 1%er board member's mansion? :pac:


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    #1120
    Sir Oxman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    ShamNNspace wrote: »
    Heres a nice one to start your search
    240k euro!


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    #1121
    Piehead
    Registered Users Posts: 472 ✭✭Piehead


    Woke-ism defeated. Statues of the tarts being replaced.


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/shelbourne-hotel-statues-to-be-restored-to-their-plinths-1.4362766?mode=amp


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    #1122
    Kivaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    Baton down the hatches people, the statues are coming back.
    It was funny listening to Morning Ireland on RTE earlier this morning that even after an art historian stated on the show that there was conclusive proof that the statues depicted Egyptian princesses or aristocrats, the RTE commentator asked questions like "could they still be seen as insensitive?". And his final question was should they not have been removed anyway because others might have seen the statues as slaves i.e. their perception of the statues as slaves even though the reality was the opposite.

    Ebun Joseph is going to have a conniption; apparently it is people like her who now dictate what art that Irish people can have in our lives. Expect RTE to interview her for her views (perception) very soon.


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    #1123
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    Kivaro wrote: »
    Ebun Joseph is going to have a conniption, as apparently it is people like her who now dictate what art that Irish people can have in our lives. Expect RTE to interview for her views (perception) very soon.

    That lady had a full page in yesterday's indo.


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    #1124
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Kivaro wrote: »
    And his final question was should they not have been removed anyway because others might have seen the statues as slaves i.e. their perception of the statues as slaves even though the reality was the opposite.
    Welcome to a too large corner of current western culture, where feelings trump facts. Well, facts are inconvenient.
    Ebun Joseph is going to have a conniption;
    Joseph will be beyond ecstatic about this. She craves the attention and the need to peddle her invented wares and keep her position as Outraged Black Woman Calling Out Racist Ireland. It's what pays the bills, it's what got her an education and niche and she'll exploit it to the maximum. Well after fleeing that despotic failed nation that is the UK looking for asylum here...

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #1125
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users Posts: 15,340 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Piehead wrote: »
    Woke-ism defeated. Statues of the tarts being replaced.


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/shelbourne-hotel-statues-to-be-restored-to-their-plinths-1.4362766?mode=amp

    Ah great news.

    Should never have been removed in the first place of course.

    Ebun J should issue a complete apology and stand down from her role in UCD


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    #1126
    MFPM
    Registered Users Posts: 3,111 ✭✭✭MFPM


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    That lady had a full page in yesterday's indo.

    She did indeed and a good thoughtful piece it was too.


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    #1127
    Gervais08
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭Gervais08


    MFPM wrote: »
    She did indeed and a good thoughtful piece it was too.

    I made the mistake of reading that. She is bad crap nuts.


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    #1128
    MFPM
    Registered Users Posts: 3,111 ✭✭✭MFPM


    Gervais08 wrote: »
    I made the mistake of reading that. She is bad crap nuts.

    What was your issue with it that necessitates your abusive description of the woman? Do you also believe the many people who have discussed the same issue in recent days are also 'bad crap nuts'?


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    #1129
    Patrick2010
    Registered Users Posts: 3,037 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    MFPM wrote: »
    What was your issue with it that necessitates your abusive description of the woman? Do you also believe the many people who have discussed the same issue in recent days are also 'bad crap nuts'?

    My issue with the article was her criticism of 2 great books while admitting she hadn’t read either.


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    #1130
    DeadHand
    Registered Users Posts: 2,727 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    Patrick2010 wrote: »
    My issue with the article was her criticism of 2 great books while admitting she hadn’t read either.

    Given the quality of her expression and the depth of her knowledge I doubt she has read many books at all.


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    #1131
    Yellow_Fern
    Registered Users Posts: 2,578 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    MFPM wrote: »
    She did indeed and a good thoughtful piece it was too.

    When I went through the school system I studied 'Roll of thunder hear my cry'. That is a book set in a similar era of 'to kill to mockingbird' but it is a black led book so she can't claim the course only covers this issues from a white American perspective. I don't see why either is required however and if anything she should be generous to the Irish system which is engaging in African American literature which she seems to value so highly. I think it is fundamentally dangerous to attack literature this way and it will have consequences, why would a white writer bother engaging in this issue if they are at risk of being attacked.


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    #1132
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,117 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Joseph will be beyond ecstatic about this. She craves the attention and the need to peddle her invented wares and keep her position as Outraged Black Woman Calling Out Racist Ireland. It's what pays the bills, it's what got her an education and niche and she'll exploit it to the maximum. Well after fleeing that despotic failed nation that is the UK looking for asylum here...




    I'll have to pull you up on that. I don't think that that is true at all.




    Some would posit that it was submitting dodgy asylum applications for long enough until an anchor baby was pushed out, followed by taking full advantage of every available system and opportunity that got her the education.
    The race-baiting was only to stay on the gravy train afterwards.


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    #1133
    keano_afc
    Registered Users Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    I really cant wait to hear what Dr. Ribena has to say on this.


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    #1134
    enda1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭enda1


    keano_afc wrote: »
    I really cant wait to hear what Dr. Ribena has to say on this.

    Hopefully she doesn't water-down her remarks!


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    #1135
    Yellow_Fern
    Registered Users Posts: 2,578 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    I wonder if it will be claimed that University College Dublin art historian Professor Paula Murphy can't be trusted or doesn't have the right skin colour to interpret the meaning of the statues. I really feel story for academics swept into this sorry mess.


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    #1136
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Patrick2010 wrote: »
    My issue with the article was her criticism of 2 great books while admitting she hadn’t read either.

    Never fails to be astounding when people criticise or find fault in something they've never even seen or read.

    It's remarkable for all the wrong reasons.


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    #1137
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    keano_afc wrote: »
    I really cant wait to hear what Dr. Ribena has to say on this.

    If it's as incoherent as her remarks about the Shelbourne Statues, it won't be worth the wait.


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    #1138
    1800_Ladladlad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,352 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    Ah now which of yous did this.

    EirkacSXYAQAsit?format=jpg&name=medium


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    #1139
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    Heard this being discussed on the radio at 4pm and Ebun Joseph was giving it loads. Then they went to a “randomer” on the street who was speaking about cultural appropriation and stuff like that and of course it was some D4 sounding one.


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    #1140
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Ebun J should issue a complete apology and stand down from her role in UCD
    And on that day where her embarrassing level of BS finally penetrates her brain this will happen:

    flyingpig.jpg

    And satan will ski to work in the mornings.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #1141
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    MFPM wrote: »
    What was your issue with it that necessitates your abusive description of the woman?

    This:
    Patrick2010 wrote: »
    My issue with the article was her criticism of 2 great books while admitting she hadn’t read either.
    She's a divisive mouthpiece and happy to display it with a neck like a jockey's bollocks with no sense of self awareness or embarrassment. And worse the media are all too happy to shove a microphone, camera or editorial in front of her.

    And the fact she's comes across as a chancer of the highest order whose academic(and I use the term cautiously) career and livelihood is predicated on shouting racism wherever she finds it, or makes it up when she doesn't. This case a perfect one. Anything she bleats on about has to be viewed through that prism and viewed with the gimlet eye it richly deserves.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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