The Academies

lurtz · 18-02-2013 9:26pm

opinionatedfan wrote: »

Update on the Leinster Academy players.

1st - Ed Byrne - injured
1st - Brian Byrne - in the extended squad for the under 20s
1st - Adam Byrne - injured
1st - Cathal Marsh - spending most of his time playing for Trinity
1st - Gavin Thornbury - starting second row for the under 20s
1st - Tadhg Beirne - spending most of his time playing for Landsdowne
1st - Dan Leavy - injured
1st - Josh Van Der Flier - in the under 20s squad
1st - Jack Conan - injured
2nd - James Treacy - being converted to hooker
2nd - David Doyle - returning from injury
2nd - Martin Moore - starting to get some first team action
2nd - Tadhg Furlong - spending most of his time playing for Clontarf
2nd - Conor Gilsenan - spending most of his time playing for UCD
2nd - Luke McGrath - captain of the under 20s
2nd - Jordan Coughlan - spending most of his time playing for UCD
2nd - Colm O'Shea - injured
2nd - Andrew Boyle - spending most of his time playing for UCD
3rd - Noel Reid - squad player for the senior team lately
3rd - Sam Coughlan Murray - spending most of his time playing for UCD
3rd - Darren Hudson - recently returned from injury
3rd - Jack O'Connell - started to make cameo appearances for Leinster
3rd - Ben Marshall - recently signed a development contract and starting to get more first team action
3rd - Jordi Murphy - recently signed a development contract and starting to get more first team action

Ed byrne and dan leavy are on the way back,should be togging out for ucd in 2 weeks. Dave Doyle is just back and had been coming off the bench for ucd in their last few games,same with Gilsenan just back. has o'connell made any first xv appearances?

opinionatedfan · 18-02-2013 9:27pm

lurtz wrote: »

Ed byrne and dan leavy are on the way back,should be togging out for ucd in 2 weeks. Dave Doyle is just back and had been coming off the bench for ucd in their last few games,same with Gilsenan just back. has o'connell made any first xv appearances?

yeah he played last weekend and the weekend before of the bench.

lurtz · 19-02-2013 9:54pm

What do people think about any of this roscrea teams chances of progressing?

opinionatedfan · 19-02-2013 11:36pm

lurtz wrote: »

What do people think about any of this roscrea teams chances of progressing?

Walshe(LH), Heffernan(TH), SOB(6/8) and Moloney(7) will filter through to the academy system eventually.

lurtz · 03-03-2013 8:06pm

If I was nigel Carolan id offer Rory Moloney a contract now before \Leinster do

Winters · 04-03-2013 1:37pm

Has anyone seen Cathal Marsh play recently?

After Ian Madigan and Noel Reid he is Leinster's next 10. There is no other outhalf in the academy that I know of..?

Behind him I would love to see Ross Byrne getting into the academy next year or the year after. There's a St. Michael's outhalf trend appearing here..

Tox56 · 04-03-2013 1:42pm

Winters wrote: »

Has anyone seen Cathal Marsh play recently?

After Ian Madigan and Noel Reid he is Leinster's next 10. There is no other outhalf in the academy that I know of..?

Behind him I would love to see Ross Byrne getting into the academy next year or the year after. There's a St. Michael's outhalf trend appearing here..

Thought Byrne was excellent when I saw him too, but according to people more in the know Conor McKeon from Gonzaga is the 10 most likely to get an academy place out of school

opinionatedfan · 04-03-2013 2:18pm

Winters wrote: »

Has anyone seen Cathal Marsh play recently?

After Ian Madigan and Noel Reid he is Leinster's next 10. There is no other outhalf in the academy that I know of..?

Behind him I would love to see Ross Byrne getting into the academy next year or the year after. There's a St. Michael's outhalf trend appearing here..

Steve Crosbie is in the sub-academy, hard to know if he will get the promotion but he is currently playing in the under-20's team.

.ak · 04-03-2013 2:21pm

The thing with Crosbie is he's a fairly big unit. I could be wrong, but he looks bigger than Reid and Marsh. The latter both have oodles of skill, but get bullied about a little regarding their step up to to senior level. One would hope Crosbie's physicality would stand to him when he makes that step.

jamiedav2011 · 04-03-2013 2:22pm

.ak wrote: »

The thing with Crosbie is he's a fairly big unit. I could be wrong, but he looks bigger than Reid and Marsh. The latter both have oodles of skill, but get bullied about a little regarding their step up to to senior level. One would hope Crosbie's physicality would stand to him when he makes that step.

I've only seen Crosbie twice, but to me he looked like more of a 12 than a 10, has he played at inside centre I wonder?

opinionatedfan · 04-03-2013 2:24pm

.ak wrote: »

The thing with Crosbie is he's a fairly big unit. I could be wrong, but he looks bigger than Reid and Marsh. The latter both have oodles of skill, but get bullied about a little regarding their step up to to senior level. One would hope Crosbie's physicality would stand to him when he makes that step.

Upon my viewing of crosbie, he strikes me more as a 12 than a 10.

irishbucsfan · 04-03-2013 2:26pm

Has anyone mentioned that Crosbie is more a 12 than a 10?

opinionatedfan · 04-03-2013 2:28pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Has anyone mentioned that Crosbie is more a 12 than a 10?

haha yeah i didn't see the previous post about it.

farrell2121 · 04-03-2013 4:25pm

Catholic Marsh wouldn't be too far behind Paddy Jackson. Just needs to get some gametime under his belt. Huge potential.

lurtz · 04-03-2013 4:30pm

Marsh is an absolutely fantastic footballer,much better than Noel Reid I think. He has skills and flair that you just dont see in Ireland. Id rather see McKeon go in instead of Byrne

bilston · 04-03-2013 5:55pm

farrell2121 wrote: »

Catholic Marsh wouldn't be too far behind Paddy Jackson. Just needs to get some gametime under his belt. Huge potential.

Sure you didn't mean Protestant Jackson?;)

CIARAN_BOYLE · 04-03-2013 5:59pm

bilston wrote: »

Sure you didn't mean Protestant Jackson?;)

as someone with a family member named cathal I'm willing to bet that is what autocorrect on phones can do.

RobbieRuns · 04-03-2013 6:33pm

and their next coach will be Jewish Schmidt !

farrell2121 · 04-03-2013 11:53pm

bilston wrote: »

Sure you didn't mean Protestant Jackson?;)

Ok, just saw the typo.! What can I say

[Jackass] · 05-03-2013 1:54am

I can see a large phase of academy players being brought through in the next couple of seasons. There's always 3 - 4 a season who come through and gradually build up game time over a number of seasons, but I can see after next season and big turn around in playing personel at Leinster and large scale game time for fringe / younger players like O'Malley, Macken, Reid, McGrath, O'Connell, Murphy, Ryan etc. and whoever else takes their chance from the academy.

Leinster squad is already 66%+ academy graduates, but I can see a bit of a blitz over the next few years with a lot of the old gelacticos and old guard coming to an end of their career soon.

Hopefully it will be managed better than down south, but in fairness to Leinster, it's not like they've waited until the last minute, a lot of fringe players from the academy have 20+ or even 50+ caps already (like O'Malley) before being relied upon as first teamers, as they inevitably will.

CGD · 05-03-2013 2:08pm

[Jackass] wrote: »

I can see a large phase of academy players being brought through in the next couple of seasons. There's always 3 - 4 a season who come through and gradually build up game time over a number of seasons, but I can see after next season and big turn around in playing personel at Leinster and large scale game time for fringe / younger players like O'Malley, Macken, Reid, McGrath, O'Connell, Murphy, Ryan etc. and whoever else takes their chance from the academy.

Leinster squad is already 66%+ academy graduates, but I can see a bit of a blitz over the next few years with a lot of the old gelacticos and old guard coming to an end of their career soon.

Hopefully it will be managed better than down south, but in fairness to Leinster, it's not like they've waited until the last minute, a lot of fringe players from the academy have 20+ or even 50+ caps already (like O'Malley) before being relied upon as first teamers, as they inevitably will.

Leinster have been good at introducing new young players especially through the A team plenty of non contracted sub academy players have played Leinster A games the last few seasons as a sort of audition for academy or a development contract.

FellasFellas · 05-03-2013 2:36pm

Ed Byrne is back in action now, should be interesting to see where next season takes him.

opinionatedfan · 05-03-2013 2:45pm

FellasFellas wrote: »

Ed Byrne is back in action now, should be interesting to see where next season takes him.

wonder if he will get back for a 20s 6 nations game, if not hopefully the JWC.

In fairness to him he is in a fairly stacked position right now, so he might not break through as fast as some might have expected when he left school.

FellasFellas · 05-03-2013 2:55pm

opinionatedfan wrote: »

wonder if he will get back for a 20s 6 nations game, if not hopefully the JWC.

In fairness to him he is in a fairly stacked position right now, so he might not break through as fast as some might have expected when he left school.

Think the 6 Nations is too soon, plus Dooley and Taylor are playing well. I hope to him playing in the JWC, he's a great player and a good leader too.

opinionatedfan · 05-03-2013 2:58pm

Taylor has really struggled. Heard he had a better go of it versus Scotland though.

irishbucsfan · 05-03-2013 2:59pm

If McGrath is in the senior team next year then Byrne could see some good time for the A team. Who are the other looseheads? Tracy is back there now I think?

Ah Jack OConnell is the man I'm thinking of. OConnell, Byrne and Tracy are grand for the A team next season.

FellasFellas · 05-03-2013 2:59pm

opinionatedfan wrote: »

Taylor has really struggled. Heard he had a better go of it versus Scotland though.

Yeah heard that too. I'd like to see Bryan get in at hooker as well. McGuigan is a grafter but having seen Byrne play for UCD this year, he's in a league of his own.

FellasFellas · 05-03-2013 3:01pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If McGrath is in the senior team next year then Byrne could see some good time for the A team. Who are the other looseheads? Tracy is back there now I think?

Byrne can play both sides, not sure which one he is primarily, think a loosey. Tracy can play there too yeah, not sure who else there is. That's why we might see Dooley getting a contract this year.

opinionatedfan · 05-03-2013 3:01pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If McGrath is in the senior team next year then Byrne could see some good time for the A team. Who are the other looseheads? Tracy is back there now I think?

Figure McGrath is moved full time to the main squad, Jack O'Connell who started last week versus the dragons would become the 3rd string LH at that point starting A games and the B&I cup along with being on the bench a lot when Healy is not around. There were rumors about Healy needing surgery post Lions aswell, his shoulder he has been nursing for a good year now but that has seemed to die down a bit.

Tracy was moved to Hooker last I heard, leaving Byrne as 4th string LH. Dooley is interesting, could see him getting a academy contract next year.

TH situation could be: Bent/Hagan rotating with Moore and the mighty Furlong even further back.

lurtz · 06-03-2013 11:24pm

opinionatedfan wrote: »

Figure McGrath is moved full time to the main squad, Jack O'Connell who started last week versus the dragons would become the 3rd string LH at that point starting A games and the B&I cup along with being on the bench a lot when Healy is not around. There were rumors about Healy needing surgery post Lions aswell, his shoulder he has been nursing for a good year now but that has seemed to die down a bit.

Tracy was moved to Hooker last I heard, leaving Byrne as 4th string LH. Dooley is interesting, could see him getting a academy contract next year.

TH situation could be: Bent/Hagan rotating with Moore and the mighty Furlong even further back.

Tracy is playing mostly loosehead for ucd. I can see Dooley getting a contract alright.
Shane Delahunt who can play both sides of the scrum is also being trained as a hooker on the sly

rugby_fan · 10-03-2013 11:34pm

With the 20s six nations nearly over, what players do people feel have put their hands up for an academy contract?

opinionatedfan · 10-03-2013 11:38pm

rugby_fan wrote: »

With the 20s six nations nearly over, what players do people feel have put their hands up for an academy contract?

For Leinster:
Thornbury, McGrath, JVDF all have academy contracts.
Peter Dooley and Tom Daly should.
Crosbie i'm not sure about, probably not but another province would be wise to pick him up.

amtw · 10-03-2013 11:51pm

Should think that after fridays nights tally Tom Daly is a definite, our front row worked well so Dooley is a probably, Crosbie I'm not so sure about either.

Liveforrugby · 11-03-2013 1:12am

amtw wrote: »

Should think that after fridays nights tally Tom Daly is a definite, our front row worked well so Dooley is a probably, Crosbie I'm not so sure about either.

The guy can kick goals too! Would love to see him starting for leinster some time soon

Hagz · 11-03-2013 1:18am

I'm not impressed with Daly tbh. Take away his goal-kicking and i don't really see what he offers. He'll improve in the academy though.

FellasFellas · 11-03-2013 1:23am

Hagz wrote: »

I'm not impressed with Daly tbh. Take away his goal-kicking and i don't really see what he offers. He'll improve in the academy though.

I played against him recently and he's a strong enough guy, strong through the tackles, good leg drive on him. A good offloader if he can get his hands free.

opinionatedfan · 11-03-2013 1:28am

Think Daly is being played out of position, he is a far better 12 in my opinion.

Obviously far from the finished article but has all the tools.

CGD · 11-03-2013 12:17pm

opinionatedfan wrote: »

Think Daly is being played out of position, he is a far better 12 in my opinion.

Obviously far from the finished article but has all the tools.

Yeah would agree with that. An academy place would bring him on no end

backgreen · 11-03-2013 4:38pm

what are the stats on guys making it from the u20 in rugby...in gaa very few from u18/21

opinionatedfan · 11-03-2013 4:45pm

backgreen wrote: »

what are the stats on guys making it from the u20 in rugby...in gaa very few from u18/21

depends on the year but since 2008, from what I remember, around 10 players have made it as full Irish internationals. A lot more players still filtering through.

Most of the under 20 squad will get a full academy contract if they dont already have one.

bilston · 11-03-2013 5:08pm

backgreen wrote: »

what are the stats on guys making it from the u20 in rugby...in gaa very few from u18/21

Below are the squads from the last 4 JWCs. The players in bold have been subsequently capped by Ireland. I'd expect a few more of those guys will be capped in the next few years, but if you get four or five internationals from each U20 year group then you're doing pretty well. The 2007 squad for example which I haven't posted has produced Healy, O'Brien, Keatley (think he might have picked up a cap or two), Earls, Cave, Fitzgerald and Jones. In contrast the 2008 vintage has yet to produce a single test player other than Madigan.

IRELAND UNDER-20 Squad (2012 IRB Junior World Championship, South Africa):

Tadhg Beirne (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Shane Buckley (Garryowen/Munster) *
Jake Cawley (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Jordon Coghlan (UCD/Leinster)
Sam Coghlan Murray (UCD/Leinster)
Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Aaron Conneely (Corinthians/Connacht) *
Barry Daly (UCD/Leinster)
Chris Farrell (Dungannon/Ulster)
Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) *
Conor Gilsenan (UCD/Mullingar/Leinster)
JJ Hanrahan (UL Bohemians/Munster) *
Iain Henderson (Queen's University/Ulster) *
Foster Horan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster) *
Shane Layden (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Kieran Marmion (Corinthians/Connacht)*
Cathal Marsh (Dublin University/Leinster)
Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster)
Des Merrey (Clontarf/Leinster)
Peter Nelson (Dungannon/Ulster)
Alan O'Connor (UCD/Leinster)
Stuart Olding (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
James Rael (Garryowen/Munster)
Peter Reilly (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Niall Scannell (Dolphin/Munster)
Mikey Sherlock (Clontarf/Leinster)
Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)

IRELAND UNDER-20 Squad (2011 IRB Junior World Championship, Treviso/Rovigo/Padova, Italy, June 10-26):

Niall Annett (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)*
Finlay Bealham (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Andrew Boyle (UCD/Leinster)*
Shane Buckley (Garryowen/Munster)
Conor Carey (Ballymena/Ulster)
Aaron Conneely (Galway Corinthians/Connacht)
Andrew Conway (Blackrock College/Leinster)*
David Doyle (UCD/Leinster)*
Peter du Toit (UCD/Leinster)
Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster)
Dominic Gallagher (Dublin University/Ulster)
Craig Gilroy (Dungannon/Ulster)
JJ Hanrahan (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Iain Henderson (Queen's University/Ulster)
Paddy Jackson (DungannonUlster)
Michael Kearney (Clontarf/Leinster)
Alex Kelly (UCD/Leinster)
Brendan Macken (Blackrock College/Leinster)*
Kieran Marmion (UWIC/Exile)
Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)
Eoin McKeon (Galwegians/Connacht)
James McKinney (Queen's University/Ulster)*
Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster)*
Tiernan O'Halloran (Galwegians/Connacht)*
Daniel Qualter (Buccaneers/Connacht)
James Tracy (UCD/Leinster)

IRELAND UNDER-20 SQUAD (2010 IRB Junior World Championship, Argentina):

Niall Annett (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Denis Buckley (Corinthians/Connacht)
Patrick Butler (Shannon/Munster)
Bryan Cagney (UCC/Munster)
Andrew Conway (Blackrock/Leinster)
John Cooney (UCD/Leinster)
David Doyle (UCD/Leinster)
Eoin Griffin (Corinthians/Connacht)
Brian Hayes (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Michael Heaney (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Darren Hudson (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Brendan Macken (Blackrock/Leinster)
Stewart Maguire (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Ben Marshall (UCD/Leinster)
James McKinney (Queen's University/Ulster)
David McSharry (UCD/Leinster)
Jordi Murphy (Blackrock/Leinster)
David O'Callaghan (UCC/Munster)
Jack O'Connell (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Tiernan O'Halloran (Galwegians/Connacht)
Brian O'Hara (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Noel Reid (UCD/Leinster)
Rhys Ruddock (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
Dominic Ryan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Nevin Spence (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)

IRELAND UNDER-20 Squad (2009 IRB Junior World Championship, Japan, June 5-21):

Backs (12):

Andrew Burke (Garryowen/Munster)
Shane Gahan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Matthew Healy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
David Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Michael Keating (Clontarf/Leinster)
Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Ian McKinley (UCD/Leinster)
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Ronan O'Mahony (Garryowen/Munster)
Eamonn Sheridan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jonny Shiels (Queen's University/Ulster)
Nevin Spence (Ballynahinch/Ulster)

Forwards (14):

Mark Flanagan (UCD/Leinster)
Adam Macklin (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Paddy McAllister (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
David McGregor (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Michael Noone (Seapoint/Leinster)
David O'Callaghan (UCC/Munster)
Jack O'Connell (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Brian O'Hara (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) (capt)
Rhys Ruddock (Millfield School/Exiles)
Ciaran Ruddock (Neath/Exiles)
Dominic Ryan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Thomas Sexton (Old Belvedere/Leinster)

Hype710 · 11-03-2013 5:55pm

Funny how Kilcoyne and Archer (both born in 1988) could barely make the side in 2008, which was probably our worst side produced at U20 level, and yet were on the bench the last day.

P.Walnuts · 11-03-2013 7:14pm

Hype710 wrote: »

Funny how Kilcoyne and Archer (both born in 1988) could barely make the side in 2008, which was probably our worst side produced at U20 level, and yet were on the bench the last day.

Who were the props that year?

opinionatedfan · 11-03-2013 7:19pm

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Who were the props that year?

in 2008 it was:

Adam Macklin(ulster squad player, out for the season with injury)
Jack McGrath(leinster's #2 LH next season)
Jack O'Connell(leinster's #3 LH next season)
Paddy McAllister(ulster squad player, out for the season with injury)

Kilcoyne has admitted he wasnt taking rugby as serious back then though so you can understand that.

Plus talent wise that's a pretty good crop for under 20 standard.

Hype710 · 11-03-2013 7:21pm

opinionatedfan wrote: »

in 2008 it was:

Adam Macklin(ulster squad player, out for the season with injury)
Jack McGrath(leinster's #2 LH next season)
Jack O'Connell(leinster's #3 LH next season)
Paddy McAllister(ulster squad player, out for the season with injury)

That was the following year. In 2008 it would have been Paul Karyiannis and Ben Barclay. Neither of whom are involved professionally. Archer saw a small bit of game time if I recall correctly.

bamboozle · 16-03-2013 10:25am

Hype710 wrote: »

That was the following year. In 2008 it would have been Paul Karyiannis and Ben Barclay. Neither of whom are involved professionally. Archer saw a small bit of game time if I recall correctly.

Ben barclay was involved with the us eagles at some point under EOS but didn't get capped. He's a great player at ail level and has been on the Irish club side, I've seen a fair bit of him at ail and his skill set really stands out, great hands, passing etc, the rugby grounding he got at clone owes really shows.

I've seen him prop against archer at ail and have no issues.

bilston · 16-03-2013 10:29am

Hype710 wrote: »

Funny how Kilcoyne and Archer (both born in 1988) could barely make the side in 2008, which was probably our worst side produced at U20 level, and yet were on the bench the last day.

But McAlistair and McGrath are two cracking propsects. They still are prospects because 23 for a prop is still very young unless you're a freak like Healy. Paddy Mac has had his injuries and McGrath is behind a couple of very good props at Leinster, should be back up to Healy next year.

Hype710 · 16-03-2013 11:32am

bilston wrote: »

But McAlistair and McGrath are two cracking propsects. They still are prospects because 23 for a prop is still very young unless you're a freak like Healy. Paddy Mac has had his injuries and McGrath is behind a couple of very good props at Leinster, should be back up to Healy next year.

They played the following year. The point was Kilcoyne and Archer didn't make the Under 20s in 2008 and were behing Karyiannis and Barclay, neither of whom went pro.

ormond lad · 17-03-2013 10:31pm

Any opinions on who will be joining the academies for next season now that the Youths and Schools competitions have nearly finished.
Hearing rumours that Greg O Shea and Rory Parata will be in Munster academy next season but what about the other provinces
Billy Dardis and Sean O Brien will be in Leinsters and Connachts academies respectively but who else will join them and who will join Ulsters academy?

lurtz · 17-03-2013 11:41pm

Have you heard for sure about Dardis and Parata? Thought Connacht would be keeping hold of him. Hope to see Rory Moloney go in somewhere. Ulsters setup is usually more ambigious than the others, maybe Mikey Lagan and John Donnan to join. Havent seen Fullerton play but seen his name alot

The Academies

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