using lake boat on the sea?

MarcinG · 18-07-2012 11:03am #1

Hi.

I have a sheelin 17" lake boat with 6hp outboard and wanted to launch it on the sea (no choppy water no further than few hundred meters from shore - just around dalkey islands max i guess).
Guys renting boats for mackrel in Dalkey are using wider (orkney?) boats which obviously are better in rough conditions but i think i wouldn't dare to go out in conditions that bad to find out difference. They are using 6HP engines too (which should work better with my boat - my understanding is narrower boat would go faster on same engine?)
As intended use is fishing i wouldn't go on bad day - i was thinking 10mph gusts max. (using xcweather.co.uk as guide).

What would you think? is this sane? I know couple of people using belly boats/float tubes on sea (not to mention kayaks)

And if so where to launch it from (bray/dun laoghaire area)and park car with trailer for free? most small harbors will dry out on low tide...

Any extra stuff i should think of? (life jacket for every person on board and red flare are obvious for me) do i need to be registered somewhere?

fergal.b · 18-07-2012 11:31am

Hi MarcinG, you should be fine as long as you use your head, let people know where you are going and when you will be back, if you can bring a backup motor or a set of oars and a hand held VHF "you should have a licence for this" but if you have to use it do. You don't need to register the boat and Greystones have a new slipway that might be worth a look.
Happy boating

MarcinG · 18-07-2012 11:35am

ok thanks. I one may say am using my head too much - hence such a questions. But better to ask 3 times than do something stupid once. Thanks.

fergal.b · 18-07-2012 11:41am

MarcinG wrote: »

ok thanks. I one may say am using my head too much - hence such a questions. But better to ask 3 times than do something stupid once. Thanks.

There are no stupid questions about boats and safety at sea so ask away.
Most lifeboat stations will be willing to check over your boat before you head out and give you any tips on the local water and what to look out for so don't be afraid to drop in to them.

Skuxx · 18-07-2012 5:50pm

fergal.b wrote: »

a hand held VHF "you should have a licence for this" but if you have to use it do.

Interesting point there Fergal! I have a handheld VHF which I use just for listening to more than anything else to see whats going on around, I have never transmitted using it, but I don't have a licence! Just wondering what are the laws regarding it, do you need a licence to posses one or just to transmit? And if you transmit without a licence, but in an emergency situation, whats does the law say about that??

fergal.b · 18-07-2012 6:09pm

alan1990 wrote: »

Interesting point there Fergal! I have a handheld VHF which I use just for listening to more than anything else to see whats going on around, I have never transmitted using it, but I don't have a licence! Just wondering what are the laws regarding it, do you need a licence to posses one or just to transmit? And if you transmit without a licence, but in an emergency situation, whats does the law say about that??

You do need a licence to use a vhf by law but I have never heard of anyone been prosecuted for using one when in imminent danger not to say it will never happen

Procrastastudy · 18-07-2012 6:23pm

fergal.b wrote: »

You do need a licence to use a vhf by law but I have never heard of anyone been prosecuted for using one when in imminent danger not to say it will never happen

You'd never get prosecuted for it if it was an emergency it would be against public policy and all that. Just make sure you know how to make a proper mayday call.

fergal.b · 18-07-2012 7:16pm

And just on the off chance some of you don't know how to make the call here you go.:D

MAYDAY

In the event of an emergency, use this form exactly as printed

1
Make sure the radio power switch is on

2
Select Channel 16

3
Depress microphone key, speak clearly and slowly

4
Say
MAYDAY
MAYDAY
MAYDAY

This is motor boat
(Boat Name)
(Boat Name)
(Boat Name)

MAYDAY
MOTOR BOAT
(Boat Name)

MY POSITION IS
(Read Location
from GPS -
Latitude
& Longitude)

MY PROBLEM IS
(State problem)

I REQUIRE
IMMEDIATE
ASSISTANCE

WE HAVE (number)
PEOPLE ON
BOARD
WITH LIFE
JACKETS

OVER

5
Release the microphone key and wait for response

6
If nothing is heard, repeat above instruction every 2 minuets

Also some VHF Talk handy to know these for when you do go for your test

Phonetic Alphabet

A Alpha
B Bravo
C Charlie
D Delta
E Echo
F Foxtrot
G Golf
H Hotel
I India
J Juliet
K Kilo
L Lima
M Mike
N November
O Oscar
P Papa
Q Quebec
R Romeo
S Sierra
T Tango
U Uniform
V Victor
W Whiskey
X X-ray
Y Yankee
Z Zulu

Figure Pronounced

0 Zeero
1 Wun
2 Too
3 Tree or Thr-ree
4 Fower
5 Fife
6 Siks
7 Seven
8 Ate
9 Niner

MarcinG · 18-07-2012 8:21pm

You are the best. I hope no one will need it. Ever

whacker1982 · 19-07-2012 5:31pm

nice one fergal for that, sorry now if im going to confuse things up a bit, but when the word (pan pan) is said is this a less destressing call, like if you were in trouble but though you could get out of it with little or no help from the coast guard. but just let them know to be on stand by?

also what the channel for on coming vessels, or ships?

fergal.b · 19-07-2012 6:48pm

Most ships and boats will listen on channel 16 when you contact them ask them to another channel that you have and is not in use, when they come into port they may use the local a channel e.g Dublin is 12 but most of the bigger boats will have more than 1 VHF.

Urgency Calling - Pan Pan

A Pan Pan, unlike a Mayday is present when there is:

no immediate threat to a vessel but where it will require assistance.

A good example of a Pan situation would be a Motor Cruiser which has lost all Power and is drifting near to some rough water.

The Call

When transmitting a Pan Pan call you should try and use the appropriate frequencies. These are 156.800 MHz or VHF CH16 or MF 2182 kHz. If there is no time to change, then an Urgency call can be broadcast on any channel but of course the chances of it being heard become much less. A typical procedure for a Pan Pan is shown below. Set the power of your transmitter to high so that the maximum range will be possible Press the PTT and transmit the following:

Pan Pan, Pan Pan, Pan Pan
This is [ships name], [ships name], [ships name]
In Position [give position either as lat and long or geographical]
[nature of incident]
[type of assistance required i.e. a Tow etc]
Information will be required so that the Coast Guard or station receiving the broadcast can acknowledge the Pan Pan. Other information can also be passed. Some more info which may be required could be:

What are the masters or skippers intentions e.g. to anchor until help arrives
Number of Persons on board
What is the weather like on scene
Are there any other vessels in the vicinity
These are just a few of the questions that may be asked, there may be dozens more dependent upon the situation.

The Receipt

In Ireland your Pan Pan call will probably be answered by the nearest Coast Guard Station. They will prompt you for any information they require before receipting your Pan Pan. A typical receipt is shown below:

Pan Pan [ships name]
This is [Coast Guard Station name], [Coast Guard Station name], [Coast Guard station name]
Received your Pan Pan, Standby
This process ensures that you know that all the info has been gathered and action is being taken. In reality, units were probably being tasked whilst you were still passing the initial position information.

Following this, a Pan Relay may be broadcast to alert other shipping of your predicament. This should be preceded by a VHF DSC alert.

Pan Pan Medico

This type of Pan call indicates the problem is one of a medical nature. Common calls are for crew hit by the boom, heart problems or asthma. In this instance, your vessel may be linked to a doctor via equipment at the Coast Guard Station. You will then be able to receive expert advice and the doctor will be able to make a judgement as to whether the casualty needs to be evacuated. The call for this type of Pan Pan s exactly the same but adding the medico on as shown below;

Pan Pan Medico, Pan Pan Medico, Pan Pan Medico
This is [ships name], [ships name], [ships name]
In Position [give position either as lat and long or geographical]
[nature of incident]
[type of assistance required i.e. medical advice]

.

davlacey · 19-07-2012 8:07pm

pan pan is (possible assistance needed) more or less telling them to standby and other boats close by that they might be needed

Pigeon Reaper · 20-07-2012 9:58am

Pan Pan Medico is no longer valid. Either use pan pan or mayday depending on the nature of the emergency. Head trauma, chest pain, or similar should always be mayday.

colrow · 21-07-2012 10:34am

A little moan from me, I have a uk VHF/DSC SRC licence, but I cannot use it to register my boat for a VHF here, they only recognise src's from Ireland Finland or Germany. Thats means I have to do the same course again here !!

fergal.b · 21-07-2012 11:06am

colrow wrote: »

A little moan from me, I have a uk VHF/DSC SRC licence, but I cannot use it to register my boat for a VHF here, they only recognise src's from Ireland Finland or Germany. Thats means I have to do the same course again here !!

Could you register the boat across the boarder? although you might draw attention to your self by customs every time you call an Irish port without an Irish call sign

.

colrow · 21-07-2012 12:44pm

Hi Fergal

Its just one of those frustrating things, made difficult for me as I'm working outside Ireland and I'll have to use some of my holiday doing the course again, thats if I can find one local to Kerry.;)

I'm in Scootland at the mo, but a mates taking my boat from the boatyard to the marina for me today, the first timer she'll have been in the water for 6 months, shes passed the out of the water part of the P5, just got to get the safety geared done and dusted now,..................and of course the effing mmsi when I get a license

fergal.b · 21-07-2012 12:59pm

The last course in Kerry was back in may in Cahersiveen marina you could contact them to see when the next one is, in the meantime this might help http://www.egmdss.com/ie/

colrow wrote: »

Hi Fergal

Its just one of those frustrating things, made difficult for me as I'm working outside Ireland and I'll have to use some of my holiday doing the course again, thats if I can find one local to Kerry.;)

I'm in Scootland at the mo, but a mates taking my boat from the boatyard to the marina for me today, the first timer she'll have been in the water for 6 months, shes passed the out of the water part of the P5, just got to get the safety geared done and dusted now,..................and of course the effing mmsi when I get a license

cram1971 · 21-07-2012 1:11pm

6hp on a 17ft boat is pretty small (I have a 5hp on a 22ft yacht for getting in and out) bring plenty of fuel and an anchor and long enough warp in case of engine problems.

MarcinG · 21-07-2012 2:16pm

cram1971 wrote: »

6hp on a 17ft boat is pretty small (I have a 5hp on a 22ft yacht for getting in and out) bring plenty of fuel and an anchor and long enough warp in case of engine problems.

As it turned out I did not ask enough questions

Slip ways @ greystones and dun laoghaire are net wet on low tide but they also quite slippery - i could not walk across one not to mention driving. And finally i rented boat (like it wasn't enough we caught next to nothing...).
Trick with rope in between car and the trailer crossed my mind on the way back home - like 5h too late

and i don't think that i have rope strong enough at home.

back to engine etc:

Boats rented in Dalkey from Bullock Harbor are bigger than my one (i guess they are 17-19ft but they like half wider than lake boat and if they are not afraid to let people go (some of people are first time on the boat). I see no reason for me to be afraid. But as I said I wouldn't go on rough day - I want to relax on the boat not to throw up my breakfast (it is also to easy to cut yourself with knife or hurt with hook). I have an anchor and sea anchor with me and 4 or 5 gallon tank with fuel (i guess it should be enough for 3 hours + non stop).

john jameson · 30-07-2015 9:57pm

MarcinG wrote: »

Hi.

I have a sheelin 17" lake boat with 6hp outboard and wanted to launch it on the sea (no choppy water no further than few hundred meters from shore - just around dalkey islands max i guess).
Guys renting boats for mackrel in Dalkey are using wider (orkney?) boats which obviously are better in rough conditions but i think i wouldn't dare to go out in conditions that bad to find out difference. They are using 6HP engines too (which should work better with my boat - my understanding is narrower boat would go faster on same engine?)
As intended use is fishing i wouldn't go on bad day - i was thinking 10mph gusts max. (using xcweather.co.uk as guide).

What would you think? is this sane? I know couple of people using belly boats/float tubes on sea (not to mention kayaks)

And if so where to launch it from (bray/dun laoghaire area)and park car with trailer for free? most small harbors will dry out on low tide...

Any extra stuff i should think of? (life jacket for every person on board and red flare are obvious for me) do i need to be registered somewhere?

I to use a lake boat for spinning about the bay at home and fishing mackeral its a burke boat 19ft and a 5ft beam and i find it ok i was thinking of getting a orkney or osullivan marine but im wondering for all the i use it gets is it worth parting with it when its doing the job. iv often taught about the drifferance between the lake boat and others around that size but if ya look at the likes of the curragh its not all that drifferant to what i use both about the same lenght and width but iv got a keel so i think myself and i am open to correction that the lake boat in calm to moderate conditions will do just fine
id love to hear others opinion on using a lake boat for sea fishing

john jameson · 30-07-2015 10:28pm

cram1971 wrote: »

6hp on a 17ft boat is pretty small (I have a 5hp on a 22ft yacht for getting in and out) bring plenty of fuel and an anchor and long enough warp in case of engine problems.

Its a nice lite engine to carry about and perfect for flat calm days spinning about and easy on fuel. the displacment hull doesant take very much hp to move it about but a 9.9 on that 17 would get the wind in your hair
Iv had a 9.5 on a 19ft lake boat and that did great iv sence sold that and moved to a nearly new 15hp 2 stroke yamaha that iv yet to try on the boat only bought it a cuple of weeks back but lack of time and growing family has put boating on hold for time being

fergal.b · 30-07-2015 10:46pm

Hi john jameson and welcome, this is quite an old post "2012" and I'm sure they have things sorted out by now

Feel free to start a new one if you wish.

.

visual · 30-07-2015 10:49pm

The only comparison between lake and sea boats is the both float in calm water.

But it ends there sea boat will sit deeper in the water and with wider beam are more stable making them much safer in swell and waves

the lake boat is lighter and usable in shallow water with narrow beam it glides mostly on top of water.

6 HP will be fine on the sea just don't go out if there is large swell or waves look big.

Your biggest danger isn't being out a kilometre or more but being close to the shore where there is unseen rocks that can topple your boat if you glance off them.

On the sea boats you can stand up fishing on a lake boat better to stay sitting.

Consider having back up engine or paddles but with wind and tide paddles are often useless.

Bring your mobile phone too so you can tell someone on shore where you will be and what time you will be back at.
I use to bring a cheap basic phone with me on boat and leave the smart phone in car.

Bring a sharp knife as it's very easy to get propeller caught in lobster pot rope and can be difficult to free.

If in doubt air on safety

Slipways can be tricky strong rope is good idea to keep driving wheels on car out of slippery stuff. Can use your towball as winch point. Just make sure someone is in car to apply foot brake or put it in gear and hand brake on.
Be care when trailer starts to roll as they can gather momentum quickly. But once you have launched a couple of time it gets easier

good luck with the sea fishing and if you get the bug sell up the lake boat and buy a sea boat.

glennobi · 11-11-2018 2:16am

I take an MCA 20ft Kingfisher on everything from canals, rivers, lakes and the Atlantic Ocean, with 15 hp 2 stroke Mercury, light and strong enough for 26km/h. Have a Minn Kota 36lbs electric backup if stuck and and oars if really stuck! Works perfectly. Don't go near a beach with breakers.... narrow displacement lake boat good into any wave, not good side on to breakers! Watch the weather. Waterproof backup mobile phone will work, near shore. Rinse and grease engine and trailer well. Avoid green slime on ramp.

neris · 12-11-2018 9:00am

there really should be some setting on boards where threads are automatically locked and archived after a certain amount of time with no replies

pedroeibar1 · 12-11-2018 12:07pm

Agreed - some threads like this one should also carry a health warning. I've been on a lake boat when the weather got up a bit and had to go into the reeds for shelter. Anyone using a lake boat around Dalkey Island should be prosecuted.

using lake boat on the sea?

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