TAMS II

jack o shea · 01-07-2015 11:57pm

Anyone take a guess at the cost of steel timber and sheeting for a 3 span shed, have an old dungstead with the concrete floor in good condition, would it be doable to dig holes in floor and put up steel pillars and take it from there?

Tyson Lannister · 02-07-2015 10:32pm

Are silage slabs covered under the new grant?

agriman27 · 02-07-2015 11:09pm

Tyson Lannister wrote: »

Are silage slabs covered under the new grant?

No there is no grant for silage slabs, I was hoping they would be on the list too

Tyson Lannister · 02-07-2015 11:14pm

agriman27 wrote: »

No there is no grant for silage slabs, I was hoping they would be on the list too

Where can you see the list?

agriman27 · 02-07-2015 11:52pm

Tyson Lannister wrote: »

Where can you see the list?

The list was in the journal a few weeks ago but I'd say it is on the dept of agri website or maybe the journal website

Sami23 · 21-10-2015 2:23pm

I believe you can claim back VAT paid on a new farm building through the VAT 58 form but I'm wondering would this be on the full price or the amount you pay after grant aid.
E.g. say shed costs 20,000 in total and you get 8,000 of a grant do you claim back Vat on the 12,000 you actually end up paying or the full 20,000 ?

Buford T. Justice XIX · 21-10-2015 2:55pm

Sami23 wrote: »

I believe you can claim back VAT paid on a new farm building through the VAT 58 form but I'm wondering would this be on the full price or the amount you pay after grant aid.
E.g. say shed costs 20,000 in total and you get 8,000 of a grant do you claim back Vat on the 12,000 you actually end up paying or the full 20,000 ?

The vat is on the purchase price, the grant is mostly paid on price before vat is added.

ganmo · 21-10-2015 3:25pm

Sami23 wrote: »

I believe you can claim back VAT paid on a new farm building through the VAT 58 form but I'm wondering would this be on the full price or the amount you pay after grant aid.
E.g. say shed costs 20,000 in total and you get 8,000 of a grant do you claim back Vat on the 12,000 you actually end up paying or the full 20,000 ?

20000 full price means ex vat cost of 16260(@23% vat)

grant figure would be 6504(40% of 16260)

vat rebate would be 3740 (20000 - 16260)

Sami23 · 07-01-2016 12:17pm

Gonna put up a simple 2-Bay Slatted shed under the YFCIS but need planning permission.
Am I too late now as the current tranche is due to close on March 25th or would I be ok to go ahead ?
Thanks

conseng · 07-01-2016 12:28pm

Sami23 wrote: »

Gonna put up a simple 2-Bay Slatted shed under the YFCIS but need planning permission.
Am I too late now as the current tranche is due to close on March 25th or would I be ok to go ahead ?
Thanks

A planning application timeline usually works something like this:

Prepare application, time varies, say 2 weeks (optimistic). Submit application, they must reply in 8 weeks. If they give intention to grant notice you must then wait 4 weeks more for the final grant, giving a best case total of 14 weeks from starting the process. (14th of April)

That doesn't allow for a further information request in the middle of the process which happens more happen than not, and usually adds 6 weeks plus.

Sami23 · 07-01-2016 12:34pm

So basically I can forget about it so.

blackdog1 · 07-01-2016 12:52pm

Sami23 wrote: »

So basically I can forget about it so.

I'd do it anyway I doubt it was over subscribed so you might just have to wait till next tranche.

Sami23 · 07-01-2016 1:00pm

blackdog1 wrote: »

I'd do it anyway I doubt it was over subscribed so you might just have to wait till next tranche.

Problem with that is realistically shed won't be ready for next winter

ODUBHLAOICH · 07-01-2016 1:05pm

What Conseng said! I applied for permission in June/July, they asked for extra information though they already had it in the original application. Got my permission in November.

Count Mondego · 07-01-2016 8:17pm

ODUBHLAOICH wrote: »

What Conseng said! I applied for permission in June/July, they asked for extra information though they already had it in the original application. Got my permission in November.

I could have wrote that word for word myself.

For those that submitted in phase 1, is there much work in the costing of it? Do you need quotes etc or just guesstamates?

cattle man · 07-01-2016 8:22pm

Count Mondego wrote: »

I could have wrote that word for word myself.

For those that submitted in phase 1, is there much work in the costing of it? Do you need quotes etc or just guesstamates?[/quote

What cost is involved in getting the planning roughly as I'm considering a shed myself

Count Mondego · 07-01-2016 8:24pm

cattle man wrote: »

Count Mondego wrote: »

I could have wrote that word for word myself.

For those that submitted in phase 1, is there much work in the costing of it? Do you need quotes etc or just guesstamates?[/quote

What cost is involved in getting the planning roughly as I'm considering a shed myself

I paid 1500 for 5 bay suckler shed,

Freejin · 07-01-2016 8:32pm

Count Mondego wrote: »

I could have wrote that word for word myself.

For those that submitted in phase 1, is there much work in the costing of it? Do you need quotes etc or just guesstamates?

As much or as little work in it as you want. I guess the more work you put into it the more accurate the price you'll get and the more you can benefit from the grant. Note that in the marking scheme for grant approval 80 out of the 120ish marks are for your estimated cost versus the reference cost. If your estimated cost is 80% of the reference costs you get the full 80 marks. We were advised to put in 80% of the reference costs as our estimate to improve our chances of approval as it was over subscribed. Got the approval before Xmas

Count Mondego · 07-01-2016 9:24pm

Freejin wrote: »

As much or as little work in it as you want. I guess the more work you put into it the more accurate the price you'll get and the more you can benefit from the grant. Note that in the marking scheme for grant approval 80 out of the 120ish marks are for your estimated cost versus the reference cost. If your estimated cost is 80% of the reference costs you get the full 80 marks. We were advised to put in 80% of the reference costs as our estimate to improve our chances of approval as it was over subscribed. Got the approval before Xmas

So you worked exclusively off 80% of the reference cost and didn't price anything outside of that? That was my initial plan also. Did you put down cost relating to your own labour? Thanks for the info.

Freejin · 07-01-2016 9:39pm

Count Mondego wrote: »

So you worked exclusively off 80% of the reference cost and didn't price anything outside of that? That was my initial plan also. Did you put down cost relating to your own labour? Thanks for the info.

We did some pricing around, and most of the stuff came in below the reference costs, maybe not the 80% but we were in a bit of a hurry for a milk tank so wanted to increase our chances of getting approval. None of what we sought approval for involved building works so can't answer costing labour.

Tyson Lannister · 08-01-2016 1:22am

Count Mondego wrote: »

cattle man wrote: »

I paid 1500 for 5 bay suckler shed,

How much of the 1500 was for the draughtsman?

Tyson Lannister · 08-01-2016 1:24am

Sami23 wrote: »

Gonna put up a simple 2-Bay Slatted shed under the YFCIS but need planning permission.
Am I too late now as the current tranche is due to close on March 25th or would I be ok to go ahead ?
Thanks

If that 2 bay shed is not going into an existing farmyard ie. a greenfield site you can apply for a section 5 planning exemption.

Tyson Lannister · 08-01-2016 1:27am

Did anyone hear anything about the building contractors for the sheds having to complete a very expensive training course before they can be approved to complete tams2 grant work?
Something about erecting steel?
Rumours are spreading around here with builders saying the cost will have to be passed to the farmer. Is there any substance to this?

Sami23 · 08-01-2016 10:14am

Tyson Lannister wrote: »

If that 2 bay shed is not going into an existing farmyard ie. a greenfield site you can apply for a section 5 planning exemption.

No I'm actually extending onto an existing shed. Pity

adne · 08-01-2016 10:31am

Can a farmer do the ground works himself or does it need to be done by a c2 registered builder

conseng · 08-01-2016 10:41am

Tyson Lannister wrote: »

If that 2 bay shed is not going into an existing farmyard ie. a greenfield site you can apply for a section 5 planning exemption.

I would have agreed with this until recently. I did an application for a farmer in Mayo and Mayo County Council's interpretation of the exemption is that it only applies in an existing farmyard and they won't issue an exemption cert for development in a green field situation.

dohc turbo2 · 08-01-2016 11:47am

Tyson Lannister wrote: »

Did anyone hear anything about the building contractors for the sheds having to complete a very expensive training course before they can be approved to complete tams2 grant work?
Something about erecting steel?
Rumours are spreading around here with builders saying the cost will have to be passed to the farmer. Is there any substance to this?

Ya that's true , all structural steel must be ce marked , farm building is class 1 about 15000 to do it , more paper work than anything . Steel has come well down so price around and make sure there ce approved and ul get a good price,

Tyson Lannister · 08-01-2016 1:02pm

conseng wrote: »

I would have agreed with this until recently. I did an application for a farmer in Mayo and Mayo County Council's interpretation of the exemption is that it only applies in an existing farmyard and they won't issue an exemption cert for development in a green field situation.

Yes I got caught with similar but it was in a SAC. Turns out you can't break ground in a SAC without planning, but up on an existing concrete slab would have been ok. Would it have been the same with you?

Tyson Lannister · 08-01-2016 1:05pm

dohc turbo2 wrote: »

Ya that's true , all structural steel must be ce marked , farm building is class 1 about 15000 to do it , more paper work than anything . Steel has come well down so price around and make sure there ce approved and ul get a good price,

is it a course they must do? apparently only one builder around here has it done

ganmo · 08-01-2016 1:31pm

dohc turbo2 wrote: »

Ya that's true , all structural steel must be ce marked , farm building is class 1 about 15000 to do it , more paper work than anything . Steel has come well down so price around and make sure there ce approved and ul get a good price,

is that just the steel or does the erector need the course too?

dohc turbo2 · 08-01-2016 2:26pm

ganmo wrote: »

is that just the steel or does the erector need the course too?

The steel , it's really all about traceability , where u get the mig gas , welding wire , and steel , and either paint or dipping , all had to be of a certain standard. There is a lot of steel around at moment , loads in England brought in from China and its full of carbon , eg sheets being folded are splitting and something welded if it gets a bang is breaking , it's a lot to do with the last big storm too from insurance companies

conseng · 08-01-2016 3:35pm

Tyson Lannister wrote: »

Yes I got caught with similar but it was in a SAC. Turns out you can't break ground in a SAC without planning, but up on an existing concrete slab would have been ok. Would it have been the same with you?

No. Basically their interpretation of the exemption covering up to 200m2 of animal housing is that it only applies in an existing farmyard. It must also have safe access to the main road to be exempt.

Charliebull · 08-01-2016 4:46pm

conseng wrote: »

No. Basically their interpretation of the exemption covering up to 200m2 of animal housing is that it only applies in an existing farmyard. It must also have safe access to the main road to be exempt.

that sound like some eejit making up his own rules,

i got my exemption cert last September for a green filed site over 100m from the farmyard

jack o shea · 08-01-2016 7:47pm

for a small 2 span basic straw shed it wouldnt be worth the hassle of applying for the grant would it? think il just get a local lad to put it up to hell.

Tyson Lannister · 08-01-2016 11:42pm

Charliebull wrote: »

that sound like some eejit making up his own rules,

i got my exemption cert last September for a green filed site over 100m from the farmyard

For that exemption cert in a greenfield site, did you make a new entrance?

Tyson Lannister · 08-01-2016 11:43pm

dohc turbo2 wrote: »

The steel , it's really all about traceability , where u get the mig gas , welding wire , and steel , and either paint or dipping , all had to be of a certain standard. There is a lot of steel around at moment , loads in England brought in from China and its full of carbon , eg sheets being folded are splitting and something welded if it gets a bang is breaking , it's a lot to do with the last big storm too from insurance companies

How does it cost 15k though?? Is it just a once off spend for the builder? Sorry for all the questions but I just cant get my head around it.

Tyson Lannister · 08-01-2016 11:52pm

Think I see now where the 15k comes in
https://www.engineersireland.ie/EngineersIreland/media/SiteMedia/cpd/training/Seminars%20temp/Seveso/Gerry-McCarthy_1.pdf

Count Mondego · 09-01-2016 1:46am

Tyson Lannister wrote: »

Count Mondego wrote: »

How much of the 1500 was for the draughtsman?

I just engaged an architect. I had the design drawn out, all he had to do was put it on cad, a few changes and submit it. 1500 covered everything from him and planning fees, advert in paper etc. You'll also have to have a agri planner do a nutrient management plan as part of the planning application. important part. They then made me do an environmental impact assessment which cost more again.

I though 1500 was a bit steep for the few hours he had to do, but what can you do.

dohc turbo2 · 09-01-2016 6:14am

Tyson Lannister wrote: »

How does it cost 15k though?? Is it just a once off spend for the builder? Sorry for all the questions but I just cant get my head around it.

Lot of rubbish involved , u have to do welding tests and the plates sent off to England , ur welders calibrated and other stuff I can't pick off the top of my head , but of course as its new the guys at the top creaming it up.

Injuryprone · 13-01-2016 3:54pm

Got turned down for a grant for a milking machine today.

Well that's not entirely true, I got approved subject to an internal agitation point at the other end of the yard being removed, which won't be happening. Don't know what relevance an agitation point has with a milking machine and I wouldn't mind but it's only used for 10 mins a year to mix the last 10 ft that you can't get from the other end which is outside. It's also right beside a fully open side of the building so I don't see it as an issue from a health and safety point of view.

I'm wondering has this happened to anyone else? Or has anyone got full approval even though they have an internal agitation point in the yard? I'd be interested to hear the views of those of you that are more experienced in dealing with these pen pushers.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 13-01-2016 4:04pm

Injuryprone wrote: »

Got turned down for a grant for a milking machine today.

Well that's not entirely true, I got approved subject to an internal agitation point at the other end of the yard being removed, which won't be happening. Don't know what relevance an agitation point has with a milking machine and I wouldn't mind but it's only used for 10 mins a year to mix the last 10 ft that you can't get from the other end which is outside. It's also right beside a fully open side of the building so I don't see it as an issue from a health and safety point of view.

I'm wondering has this happened to anyone else? Or has anyone got full approval even though they have an internal agitation point in the yard? I'd be interested to hear the views of those of you that are more experienced in dealing with these pen pushers.

I put in for sheds covering 2 open yards but the tank has an agitation point in the middle of the tank and 2 external ones that aren't being covered so I'm a bit doubtful about getting approval for it myself.

My advisor was saying that a few lads didn't bother applying when they heard they would have to install external agitation points.

kevthegaff · 13-01-2016 4:11pm

I have a tank adjacent to parlour with internal agitation point, was gona apply for just milking machine. Will this stop it?

Timmaay · 13-01-2016 5:48pm

Got turned down for the h&s grant due to internal agitation points. Didn't realise it's relevant to tams2 also ugh. There goes my meal bin and parlour feeder grant uuughh. Think I'll go put in plenty of storage space and more cubicles in the 2nd yard though, only got a year left of the young farmer 60% grant so might as well use that to the max now. Anyone any rough idea how long planning in yards usually takes?

kevthegaff · 13-01-2016 6:46pm

Timmaay wrote: »

Got turned down for the h&s grant due to internal agitation points. Didn't realise it's relevant to tams2 also ugh. There goes my meal bin and parlour feeder grant uuughh. Think I'll go put in plenty of storage space and more cubicles in the 2nd yard though, only got a year left of the young farmer 60% grant so might as well use that to the max now. Anyone any rough idea how long planning in yards usually takes?

That's a joke so most of us cant:-( put in a machine

Timmaay · 13-01-2016 7:34pm

kevthegaff wrote: »

That's a joke so most of us cant:-( put in a machine

Ya gotta find yourself a normal slat to replace the inside agitation point. Hmmm or I wounder if you took the 2 sheets just over the agitation point off for the inspection, would it be suitable ha? Bit like the "outside smoking areas" in pubs ha.

Injuryprone · 13-01-2016 7:40pm

I think you're ok if your new build will be in a completely separate shed to the shed with the tank in it. All my sheds are side by side and connected and new machine is to go in where the existing one is so that's where I'm goosed I think. Parlour and dairy are sealed from rest so I thought that might do from a separation point of view but obviously not. Must get onto them again tomorrow to clarify.

Timmaay · 15-01-2016 3:24pm

Quick question, tams2 has a ceiling of 80k (or 160k with 2 partners), if you drew down a tams1 grant does it have any effect on the tams2 ceilings?

Charliebull · 15-01-2016 4:04pm

Timmaay wrote: »

Quick question, tams2 has a ceiling of 80k (or 160k with 2 partners), if you drew down a tams1 grant does it have any effect on the tams2 ceilings?

no but it will affect your point scoring for the TAMS II application

eoinmk2 · 16-01-2016 12:35pm

will a father son partnership get the 160k grant, or does the other farmer have to be bringing land to the equation?

also, how many tranches of the do people think there will be? will it just stay going until all the money is gone?

I have applied for the young farmers grant, not heard any word back yet. my problem is that I'm in my final year of ag science, but we don't get our qualification/green cert till we graduate in autumn, so the 25 march deadline is out of the question I think. also, I don't exactly want to dive into farming straight after college. Id like to either work abroad (new zealand dairying) or away from home for a year or two before I come home farming and get experience with cows. we are currently beef farming at home but I intent on going dairying, so the grants would help a lot in the conversion. With all these deadline coming up for applications I'm not sure if I should scrap the going away idea and stay home so as to make the most of the grants, or go away for a few years in the hope the grants will still be there when I come home.

any advice anyone?

dohc turbo2 · 16-01-2016 5:59pm

eoinmk2 wrote: »

will a father son partnership get the 160k grant, or does the other farmer have to be bringing land to the equation?

also, how many tranches of the do people think there will be? will it just stay going until all the money is gone?

I have applied for the young farmers grant, not heard any word back yet. my problem is that I'm in my final year of ag science, but we don't get our qualification/green cert till we graduate in autumn, so the 25 march deadline is out of the question I think. also, I don't exactly want to dive into farming straight after college. Id like to either work abroad (new zealand dairying) or away from home for a year or two before I come home farming and get experience with cows. we are currently beef farming at home but I intent on going dairying, so the grants would help a lot in the conversion. With all these deadline coming up for applications I'm not sure if I should scrap the going away idea and stay home so as to make the most of the grants, or go away for a few years in the hope the grants will still be there when I come home.

any advice anyone?

Have Ye cattle now ? If so have ye sufficient slurry storage cause that's one thing if u keep over the winter

TAMS II

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