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MMA Forum Feedback.

  • 12-12-2013 7:39pm
    #1
    El Guapo!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,438 ✭✭✭✭


    As it says on the tin, this thread is for everyone to post any and all feedback or suggestions that you may have regarding the forum.

    We've had an increase in traffic here lately and a lot of that is thanks to the rise of Conor McGregor and him becoming more of a public figure. The forum is probably going to keep attracting more and more people as Irish mma grows and more people take an interest in the sport.
    For this reason we'd like all members to give us any feedback or suggestions that you can think of. Anything you think could add to this forum, we want to hear it.
    Everyone is welcome to post here whether it's your first day on the site or if you're part of the furniture here!

    All feedback, good and bad, is welcomed and encouraged. If there's something you want to say, but don't want to post it on-thread, then you're more than welcome to pm me with comments or suggestions or your bank account details. ;)
    Any pm's will be treated with the strictest confidence.

    We want this forum to be the first point of call for Irish mma and, with your help, hopefully it can become a better and more welcoming place for new fans and members of the mma community.

    This thread is not for airing any grievances with other posters and should not be used to attack any member of the forum or member of the wider mma community.

    So, fire away......


«13

Comments

  • #2
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,256 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    Others might not agree but, as with the old moderators, this forum is pretty well and fairly moderated.

    Things only get out of hand when Soccer Forum type discussions start flying in the McG thread. When they do, I feel they're handled well.

    Elsewhere though discussion is always civil and enjoyable.


  • #3
    scudzilla
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,943 ✭✭✭✭scudzilla


    Put the words 'Conor' and 'McGregor' onto the banned list and things will calm down overnight ;)


  • #4
    gimmick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,296 ✭✭✭✭gimmick


    The only thing I would change is the "news thread" is a little too catch all and people miss out on news/conversation as a result.

    Lots of people, myself included, do not particularly like starting threads. I understand that. But for example, the horrible Shane Del Rosario illness and death would have been missed by many as it was just in the news thread. There are plenty other examples.

    More threads = more chat imo.


  • #5
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,256 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    Maybe we could change the threat to an "off topic" or "general chat" thread?


  • #6
    Professey Chin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51,054 ✭✭✭✭Professey Chin


    gimmick wrote: »
    The only thing I would change is the "news thread" is a little too catch all and people miss out on news/conversation as a result.

    Lots of people, myself included, do not particularly like starting threads. I understand that. But for example, the horrible Shane Del Rosario illness and death would have been missed by many as it was just in the news thread. There are plenty other examples.

    More threads = more chat imo.

    Before that though it was a bit of a mess. Threads would be started for pretty much every news item and often with only 1/2 replies if any.
    Really it should be more an issue of personal judgement on each topic. Del Rosarios illness should have been brought out on its own IMO but it doesnt work everyway.


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  • #7
    gimmick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,296 ✭✭✭✭gimmick


    Oh I know. I mod the pro wrestling forum and the "news" thread is a handy thread for little snippets here and there, stuff which doesn't warrant a thread. But occassionally I do go in and there might be 15 posts in reply to something. I split the thread and put the item out on its own from there.


  • #8
    Professey Chin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51,054 ✭✭✭✭Professey Chin


    gimmick wrote: »
    Oh I know. I mod the pro wrestling forum and the "news" thread is a handy thread for little snippets here and there, stuff which doesn't warrant a thread. But occassionally I do go in and there might be 15 posts in reply to something. I split the thread and put the item out on its own from there.

    Thats about it really. Just needs judgement call on the activity different news stories can & will generate.

    One thing I would like to see is a bit more maintenance of the Irish events Sticky. I know its no easy task considering the amount of events that are happening but I do find some shows are sliding under the radar even though a lot of the bigger ones have their own thread.

    Actually maybe the stickys in general could use a review. Maybe an irish rankings one or results/records to compliment the events?

    I'm just babbling now, dont mind me :o


  • #9
    Clive
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭Clive


    Get rid of the stickies. They''re great as a resource for things that don't change very often e.g. FAQs but for club listings etc they don't work well IMO.

    Maybe one sticky for upcoming events so that all shows, seminars etc can be put in there.


  • #10
    Professey Chin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51,054 ✭✭✭✭Professey Chin


    Actually am I going mad or was there an MMA faq here at one stage or did I imagine that?
    Might be no harm to bundle one in with the charter post considering more irish stars could mean bigger influx.

    And any UFC with an Irish fighter should have their approx fight time in the thread title :pac:


  • #11
    Professey Chin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51,054 ✭✭✭✭Professey Chin


    Clive wrote: »
    Get rid of the stickies. They''re great as a resource for things that don't change very often e.g. FAQs but for club listings etc they don't work well IMO.

    Maybe one sticky for upcoming events so that all shows, seminars etc can be put in there.
    I think the biggest issue with the club details one is keeping them all up to date. Just taking a look through the one we have theres definitely a few there that addresses/phone numbers/names have changed or in a couple of instances Im not even sure if they exist anymore.
    Personally I like the idea of a club one but it'd probably need coaches input when things get updated.


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  • #12
    Clive
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭Clive


    The Dark Lord Cthulhu wrote: »
    I think the biggest issue with the club details one is keeping them all up to date. Just taking a look through the one we have theres definitely a few there that addresses/phone numbers/names have changed or in a couple of instances Im not even sure if they exist anymore.
    Personally I like the idea of a club one but it'd probably need coaches input when things get updated.

    Maybe a list of links to websites/Facebook pages sorted by area? Even if details are updated later in the sticky most people stop reading once they''ve found what they want.


  • #13
    Professey Chin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51,054 ✭✭✭✭Professey Chin


    True most would have a site or page at the minimum. Might be better if its kept but just cleaned out & started fresh


  • #14
    El Guapo!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,438 ✭✭✭✭El Guapo!


    All good suggestions folks. Keep 'em coming.
    Everything posted here will be taken on board and we'll see if we can all make the forum better and get a good community going again. :)


  • #15
    Professey Chin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51,054 ✭✭✭✭Professey Chin


    What would people think about trialling an Off Topic thread? They really can help build a community in forums and are standard in most specialty forums but no idea would it take off.

    Or a Q&A thread?

    (Yes im shamelessly robbing from the Pro Wrestling forum :pac: )


  • #16
    Professey Chin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51,054 ✭✭✭✭Professey Chin


    Actually the more I'm looking around the forum, we have (obviously) countless threads ranging from fighters to events and general news but surprisingly little relating to our own activities in the sport. We have people here with experience ranging from professional fighting experience down to years/months training in MMA or individual aspects of it and others who are just considering getting involved but outside the occasional "What club?" threads youd hear very little about peoples own experiences with the sport.
    Would there be anyway to kinda get this out more? I'm not talking about people offering direct training advice but just hearing more about peoples own training experiences etc (like the Tiger MMA discussion that briefly popped up in the GSP thread)

    I'll stop babbling soon I swear!


  • #17
    El Guapo!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,438 ✭✭✭✭El Guapo!


    A bit of an update on what's been happening so far.....

    You'll notice the club details sticky is gone. It was way out of date and some of the clubs in there don't even exist any more. At some stage in the future we might compile an up to date list but for now it's gone.

    The seminars sticky is also gone. Seminars seem to be few and far between. If one comes up, then by all means start a new thread and we can sticky it until the seminar is done. This way they won't get lost in a sticky that no one reads.

    The upcoming events sticky has also been binned for now. A new, more comprehensive one will be making an appearance when events are scheduled.


    An off-topic thread is a no go for the moment. It probably won't work in here anyway and can get a bit messy.

    Regarding the general news thread: If you feel that a news snippet will generate a good bit of discussion, then start a new thread if it deserves it. Some important news pieces get lost in that thread which is a shame.
    Also, if something is posted in there that warrants it's own thread and is gathering momentum, we'll split it away from the main thread and leave it out on its own.

    I think that covers everything for now. I'll leave this thread open and if you have any more suggestions etc then fire away.


  • #18
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,256 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    The Dark Lord Cthulhu wrote: »
    Actually the more I'm looking around the forum, we have (obviously) countless threads ranging from fighters to events and general news but surprisingly little relating to our own activities in the sport. We have people here with experience ranging from professional fighting experience down to years/months training in MMA or individual aspects of it and others who are just considering getting involved but outside the occasional "What club?" threads youd hear very little about peoples own experiences with the sport.
    Would there be anyway to kinda get this out more? I'm not talking about people offering direct training advice but just hearing more about peoples own training experiences etc (like the Tiger MMA discussion that briefly popped up in the GSP thread)

    I'll stop babbling soon I swear!

    We could call it the "Do you even UFC bro?" thread!


  • #19
    El Guapo!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,438 ✭✭✭✭El Guapo!


    Well this has been up for 3 weeks now, I reckon that's just about everything that needed to be covered.
    I'll remove it as a sticky now but the thread will remain open. If anyone has anything else to add then please do. :)


  • #20
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    What are people's thoughts on what should and shouldn't be discussed in the MMA section ?

    Lately it seems the "no non-MMA related discussion" rule is quite controversial. I can understand the intent of the original rulings - to outlaw celebrity-trivia style discussion. I am totally on board with that. But in recent days/weeks I think it's obvious there is a need for clarity on what exactly is MMA related, and why.

    In the recent Tony Ferguson situation - Tony having some legal and mental heath issues - I don't see how this is not MMA related. It's going to affect the title picture, it's one less possible opponent for Conor etc. I can understand not allowing gossip about his mental health but some of the details are on the record.

    Can a mod provide some clarity on the thought process behind this, and whether it is flexible at all ?


  • #21
    ASOT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,739 ✭✭✭ASOT


    I'll post my two cents when I'm on the laptop later.


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  • #22
    martyos121
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,475 ✭✭✭✭martyos121


    I’ll express my views as civilly as possible; the modding in this forum lately has been exceedingly heavy handed. I can understand why that is the case and how it’s gotten to this point, but it’s pretty much killed the two biggest threads in the forum stone dead since the latest warnings.

    I’m not even sure how the situation could be fixed, but a zero tolerance policy for trolls and those who don’t wish to discuss the sport in any capacity (and by that I mean instant forum bans, not swathes of warnings such as “next time you do X you’ll be banned for Y weeks” which are often not followed up on. That’s just a suggestion, not me having notions or trying to backseat mod). Fighter’s personal lives are absolutely relevant to the sport and their careers in many situations, so to outlaw discussion of that entirely is not the right move in my opinion. Certain things that have occurred lately couldn’t be discussed here for legal reasons and most understand that and have no issue with that, but to extend that embargo to prohibit discussion of any matters outside of the cage in the news thread or elsewhere is going to kill this forum soon enough.

    There are plenty of posters who discuss fighting and fighters’ lives within reason here, there are also plenty who discuss just fighting, and unfortunately there are probably even more who discuss anything other than fighting. The first two categories are mostly fine, the third one is obviously a problem. It all stems from the McGregor thread, which might be one of the most hostile, vitriolic threads I’ve seen anywhere on the website in all my time posting here. One possible idea to cut out a lot of the shîte in there could be to enforce a registration policy to that thread similar to the one in the soccer forum but specific to that one thread in this case, where you could have to reach 50 non-spam posts elsewhere in the MMA forum before requesting access to post in that thread. I don’t know if that’s even possible or if it’s even a good idea, but it is an idea at least and something needs to change with the McGregor thread. Maybe even a modified charter for that thread specifically. Again, I’m just spitballing here.

    Drastically limiting what we can post in here isn’t the solution I believe, but limiting the posters who can post in here could be, perhaps? I have sympathy for the mods of this forum, I really do, it’s probably one of the hardest to mod across the site but it’s mostly because of one thread (I’ve had my own issues posting there in the past, but it was always reactionary, now I mostly avoid posting there at all). If some of the problems with that thread could be addressed without affecting the rest of the forum and those of us who post in event threads, gambling threads, the humour thread or discuss the sport in general anywhere else within the forum, that would be ideal I reckon.

    None of this post is a criticism of the mods themselves, just to be clear. The forum up until very recently was being modded fairly and effectively for the most part, I feel. This is only a few ideas on how to possibly make it a forum that fans of the sport actually want to post in.


  • #23
    Steve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,584 ✭✭✭✭Steve


    Thanks for the feedback it is very welcome.

    I agree that the moderation has had to become quite narrow of late , that is because the forum is short handed and for the last few months we have been trying to recruit a new mod but to no avail.

    More scope of discussion means more mod time needed to stay on top of it, something that is simply not there right now.


  • #24
    Axwell
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Axwell


    That is one factor but there is clearly another as regards common sense in what is and isn’t appropriate to post in the forum.

    There is a high number of posters who only post in the McGregor thread and only when its in relation to his life outside the UFC. Whether thats an attempt to just provoke a reaction out of others, or a sign of a lack of interest in MMA and only in McGregor or a combination of both, the reality is it tends to add little to the forum and usually spirals into nonsense name calling and remarks which are inappropriate in an MMA forum.

    Moderation clamping down on what can and be discussed would not be as necessary if the discussion itself was kept at a level where it didnt need such excessive moderation to begin with and there was some common sense and a lack of treating this as as if its Sherdog or a forum on TMZ.


  • #25
    Fromvert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,081 ✭✭✭Fromvert


    The McGregor thread and any of his event threads are just a toilet full of ****, destroyed by a handful of dickheads who cant discuss anything without name calling (and I get I just stooped to their level). The rest of the forum is great for discussion about fights, match ups, tactics etc and if we let the 5% of idiots on either side of the McGregor spectrum ruin the forum it'll be a another **** up on an already dying website.


  • #26
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 77,496 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    As I have just posted in the McGregor thread - speculation or commentary on ongoing/likely legal cases is not permitted here or elsewhere on the site. This is not an issue for further debate here

    I am sure many of you will be aware of comments made by the judiciary in light of social media commentary surrounding the (fairly) recent case involving Rugby players. Such commentary can seriously prejudice cases.


  • #27
    Steve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,584 ✭✭✭✭Steve


    I'm going to put a time limit on the feedback for whether this MMA forum is strictly sport related or includes 'celebrity gossip' so please get your opinions in.

    You have till the end of the month (March 2019).


  • #28
    pastorbarrett
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 605 ✭✭✭pastorbarrett


    Modding unnecessarily punitive and disciplinarian of late. Litigation aside, it's unrealistic at this point to expect discussion on someone of McGregor's stature to remain solely fight orientated - for better or worse.


  • #29
    darced
    Registered Users Posts: 7,056 ✭✭✭darced


    The tone of the modding is terrible lads, absolute worst on the site. I know its the MMA forum but less of the hard man 'open your mouth and ill ban you' posts would be very welcome. I appreciate that you may not have enough mods but every time I see this nonsense I think I can't be arsed posting.

    On the mixing private life and MMA the sport issue I'd say simply ban anything that could realistically get boards in bother, Everything else should be fine. Its ridiculous to try and enforce no off-topic posting, its an unworkable and unwanted rule.

    I don't even bother with the rumour stuff myself but its 2019, it'll be happening here or somewhere else anyway, maybe open a gossip thread keep it all in there.


  • #30
    The Rooster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,642 ✭✭✭The Rooster


    Agree with Teo above, not being able to mention Ferguson’s current issues is utterly ridiculous!

    As for McGregor, Axwell had it perfect in relation to legal issues, that if it’s in the mainstream press, then it’s fine to mention, but no going repeating unsubstantiated rumours.

    So we should be able to mention that a person has been arrested for assault or damage to property or whatever, when it’s a 100% fact and is reported in, for example, the Irish Times. And we should be able to discuss what’s the timing for any court appearance, where does that put him in terms of likely being able to fight again, the arrest report showed his weight and if that can be relied on then it’s looks like he’s been training well, will the UFC punish him, etc etc

    What we can’t say is -
    typical Scumbag Mcgregor = ban!
    I heard he gave the photographer a broken nose = ban
    Scumbag paparazzi, deserved a beating = ban
    My mate’s mate saw it, he’s definitely guilty = ban

    The other issues that should be addressed are:
    Whiskey and other sponsorships - that should all be 100% fine. It’s derived from his MMA and if people find it interesting to talk about in the McGregor thread, that should be fine.
    Drug taking and infidelity is the one that need to be carefully considered and specifically dealt with.
    Personally, I think the ‘rule’ about if it’s in mainstream media (and maybe Ax or some other knowledgeable person can list 1 or 2 or 3 reputable MMA media outlets as well as normal Irish media) then it’s fair to mention and discuss implications. But in any event stuff like;
    -I saw him in Lillies and he was doped up, or
    -My friend saw him in leeson st getting stuck into some young wan
    Should equal Ban.

    Finally, and back to my first point, somebody on the MMA forum started roaring and crying that there was one rule for talking about McGregor and another rule for everyone else. That resulted in talk about Ferguson being shut down. There should be no apology for treating McGregor different (if that’s what mods decide). He’s the only one with his own thread and he’s Irish and the biggest star in the sport. Unique person, unique rules.


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  • #31
    Inviere
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,755 ✭✭✭Inviere


    I've only started lurking again recently, after someone tipped me off that all the 'celeb gossip' style of posting here had been cut out. I stopped browsing, reading, and posting in the forum for a good while because of that type of content; if I don't want to read how many babies McGregor has, and wasn't too interested in Tony McGregor's latest musings on life in After Hours, I hardly want to read it here in a sporting forum dedicated to MMA, so I just quit using the forum altogether.

    That said, I think it's gone to the other extreme now, in that you can only talk about MMA related topics. I'd imagine it'd be fine to discuss Ferguson's ongoing mental health issues, fine to discuss McGregor's latest phone incident, and fine to discuss the more personal side to the lives of fighters - with one HUGE proviso - the charter mention of 'no fighter bashing' be strictly enforced. The overall goal should be to create a friendly environment where people can discuss MMA, the the stars of the sport, without creating a cesspit where trolls can thrive. Similarly, discussion should only relate to the fighters themselves, all due respect to Tony McGregor, but fooked if he's remotely relevant in an MMA forum, leave that type of tripe to AH where it belongs.

    I also think another few mods are needed, maybe two. So much seems to fall on Axwell, and while we mightn't see eye to eye on things, he is now the sole mod of the forum, and that just can't be a good idea, for various reasons (burnout, possibly inadvertently biased modding, lack of a mod team to discuss/develop/build the forum, fresh faces/fresh ideas, etc etc). Similarly, I personally find the "don't post like that or I'll ban you" type mod warnings as massively blunt, and they don't reflect well on moderators as a whole - you can get a warning across without writing in a threatening manner, it just looks amateurish (and again, no disrespect to Axwell, it's just an observation).

    To summarise, I think it's good that the celeb/tmz tripe has been nuked, but I'm not sure it's a good idea outlawing everything outside of MMA. Allow chat that's directly related to fighters (not their families, and not rumours/accusations), implement a hard and fast ban system for fighter bashing to keep the habitual moaners that get a hard on for bashing away (they only ever cause angst anyway), and get some new modding blood on board to create a cohesive modding team, one that can continue to develop/grow the forum for the future.

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  • #32
    dave1982
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,604 ✭✭✭dave1982


    Axell seems to threaten with ban hammer alot. Mma forum only talk about fights only. Yet he is in mcgregor thread now on about stocks and shares. Its my impression he is total conor fan and wont have anything bad said about conor. People should be allowed discuss whats in the news on conor, good or bad. Ironicaly he will threaten me with ban for smart comment..with a smart comment of his own in his do that and your gone nonsense
    If a mod is setting rules fight talk only in mma forum then stick to it.. talking about conor private life smashing guys phones has something to do with his mind frame why would he do it etc. Is he mentaly there etc is he going off rails, will this cause him to be out longer and stuff like that has a lot more to do with mma than stocks and shares of a company but what do i know its his playground.
    Being threaten with a ban dont bother btw


  • #33
    Steve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,584 ✭✭✭✭Steve


    So, just to throw it out there:

    What about a dedicated MMA celebrity gossip thread?

    Anything non fight / sport related goes in there.

    Whiskey / new cars / boats / shares etc.. obviously nothing that is sub-judice or related to illegal activity.


  • #34
    Inviere
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,755 ✭✭✭Inviere


    Steve wrote: »
    So, just to throw it out there:

    What about a dedicated MMA celebrity gossip thread?

    Anything non fight / sport related goes in there.

    Whiskey / new cars / boats / shares etc.. obviously nothing that is sub-judice or related to illegal activity.

    The only issue I'd have with that is, how do you draw the line between relevant conversation and gossip. For instance, I'd love to keep up to speed with Tony's mental health struggles at the moment, he's actively posting about it on social media. I'd hate to have to wade through absolute crap related to Proper 12 though to keep up.

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  • #35
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Steve wrote: »
    So, just to throw it out there:

    What about a dedicated MMA celebrity gossip thread?

    Anything non fight / sport related goes in there.

    Whiskey / new cars / boats / shares etc.. obviously nothing that is sub-judice or related to illegal activity.

    Isn't that what the McGregor thread is supposed to be though?.. just the nonsense related to him..and the ridiculous subject matter is more down to his antics than anything else..
    And like, seriously, could you have a balanced conversation about him these last few years without mentioning cocaine?..


  • #36
    Steve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,584 ✭✭✭✭Steve


    Inviere wrote: »
    The only issue I'd have with that is, how do you draw the line between relevant conversation and gossip. For instance, I'd love to keep up to speed with Tony's mental health struggles at the moment, he's actively posting about it on social media. I'd hate to have to wade through absolute crap related to Proper 12 though to keep up.

    Feel free to suggest how best to do that... that's what threads like this are for!


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  • #37
    Steve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,584 ✭✭✭✭Steve


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Isn't that what the McGregor thread is supposed to be though?.. just the nonsense related to him..and the ridiculous subject matter is more down to his antics than anything else..
    And like, seriously, could you have a balanced conversation about him these last few years without mentioning cocaine?..

    No, this is supposed to be a MMA forum not a gossip forum.

    However, if most users want gossip allowed, we will listen and figure out a way to accommodate it. If they don't then we can also accommodate.


  • #38
    Inviere
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,755 ✭✭✭Inviere


    Steve wrote: »
    Feel free to suggest how best to do that... that's what threads like this are for!

    I don't think I'd advocate for going that 'celeb gossip thread' route at all tbh, it seems a needless complication. As I posted about in this post, I think the current rules should be somewhat relaxed so as to allow for discussion on news directly related to fighters. I believe Tony's mental health struggles, Conor's latest incident with the phone, and so forth, are viable topics of discussion. What I would change though, is if a wider subject matter is to be allowed again, is to enforce a strict "no fighter bashing" rule (it's already in the charter). I'd go very heavy handed on this, so it won't take trolls long at all to get the message, that trolling/bashing/antagonising just won't fly here.

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  • #39
    Inviere
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,755 ✭✭✭Inviere


    Steve wrote: »
    No, this is supposed to be a MMA forum not a gossip forum.

    I completely agree. If I'm to visit this forum, I only come here for news on fighters, fighters, and so forth. We need to realise though, that the fighters we all know and love have lives outside of fighting, and people are going to want to discuss that, within the bounds of the forum. We need to strike a balance between just how off topic we can get though. Personally I don't think Proper 12 discussion, Tony McGregor, etc, have any place here. I do believe though, that situations like Tony's mental health problems are relevant here, because it may impact when/if we see him fight again.
    However, if most users want gossip allowed, we will listen and figure out a way to accommodate it. If they don't then we can also accommodate.

    The gossip stuff belongs in AH imo, it's beyond painful to read.

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  • #40
    EagererBeaver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,532 ✭✭✭EagererBeaver


    The UFC, having taken so much of its operating model from professional wrestling, has a large aspect of pantomime to it.

    "MMA related" isn't strictly related to training or fights. Some other stuff had to be allowed in, and generally it is.

    Libellous ****e or discussing what McGregor had for breakfast or whether he cheated on Dee is just tabloid nonsense though.

    It should be a forum for fans but not fanboys, which is pretty much how it's run at the minute.


  • #41
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,100 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    Inviere wrote: »
    I completely agree. If I'm to visit this forum, I only come here for news on fighters, fighters, and so forth. We need to realise though, that the fighters we all know and love have lives outside of fighting, and people are going to want to discuss that, within the bounds of the forum. We need to strike a balance between just how off topic we can get though. Personally I don't think Proper 12 discussion, Tony McGregor, etc, have any place here. I do believe though, that situations like Tony's mental health problems are relevant here, because it may impact when/if we see him fight again.

    However, if most users want gossip allowed, we will listen and figure out a way to accommodate it. If they don't then we can also accommodate.

    The gossip stuff belongs in AH imo, it's beyond painful to read.

    How do you determine what is relevant though? Mental health issues are ok, smashing a phone is ok but whiskey isn't. What's the criteria and how do you determine it?

    I think the sports only rule is ridiculous and should be done away with. If it's relevant to the fighter than allow discussion of it (obvious legal issues aside). Most of the extreme gossipy stuff is about McGregor anyway so will largely be contained to the McGregor thread.


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  • #42
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 77,496 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    A lot of forums have "Off topic" threads - what about trying that here? Try and ring fence the "non-sporting" stuff so those who don't want to engage in that can steer clear of the thread

    I appreciate it will be very McGregor dominated, certainly in the short to medium term. However the sport will survive when he's ridden off into the sunset (if he's not already pretty much done so!)

    Just on the topic of mods, we have been trying for some time to identify some new blood. Unfortunately many are put off when they see the sort of shenanigans, particularly with some of the McGregor stuff. We are though actively looking for new mods. Please do not post any suggestions here, but if anyone has any ideas please feel free to drop me or the CMods a PM

    Thanks


  • #43
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,812 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    I'd +1 the idea of a off-topic/gossip/PPV numbers/whiskey etc thread separate to the normal McG thread. Then at least all that stuff is contained within one thread and for people who don't like it, they don't have to read it. If you ban all that stuff completely, we'll just end up with people re-doing the same handful of topics that have already been done to death (Mayweather, Aldo fight and so on), which is just as offputting tbh.

    One thing I would like to see is the General News Thread being used less and more new threads being set up, or when something noteworthy happens the posts are split off from there and into a new thread by a mod, it might encourage people to post more and seems to work well in the Pro Wrestling forum.


  • #44
    Inviere
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,755 ✭✭✭Inviere


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    How do you determine what is relevant though? Mental health issues are ok, smashing a phone is ok but whiskey isn't. What's the criteria and how do you determine it?

    I appreciate that what I personally feel is relevant, another poster might not, and vice versa. I used those examples for these reasons; Tony's mental health problems are just that, problems. It's not something that's going to cause trolling, offense, and arguing etc. It's directly connected to Tony's career, and will determine if and/or when we might see Tony in the ring again - we're all rooting for him I'm sure, so it's something that'd be good in terms of discussion, and community building.

    Similarly, McGregor's beach antics could have an impact on his career also. It's another bump in the road, a very long and bumpy road of late, for McGregor. Ok, it's a subject that could harbour ill will/fighter bashing, but I think to outlaw discussion on it is really exposing the fact that we need more versatile definitions of acceptable/not acceptable topics here. It made headlines, so it should be acknowledged, with a heavy handed approach to fighter bashing/trolling.

    Proper 12, Tony McGregor, Instagram Babies, and what not, have no relevance to fights, upcoming fights, potential fights, careers, UFC, MMA...those sort of things (imo) are completely and totally irrelevant here. They fuel fighter bashing, posts antagonise people, causes I'm sure a not insignificant extra work for Axwell, and are discussions of no value in an MMA forum. Boards will cater to that type of thing, just go to AH or the Celebrity forums to do it.
    I think the sports only rule is ridiculous and should be done away with. If it's relevant to the fighter than allow discussion of it (obvious legal issues aside). Most of the extreme gossipy stuff is about McGregor anyway so will largely be contained to the McGregor thread.

    But how many people here are interested in hearing about McGregor's career? Is he training again? He's been seen training here, there, somewhere else. Has he fallen out with Kavanagh? He's just promised Nate a trilogy match, can he possibly adapt to overcome Khabib? Will he get the winner of Poirier and Holloway? How will he fare against a much improved version of Max/Dustin if he does?

    ^^ Personally, I love all that stuff. Am I interested in Proper 12, Instagram rumours, Tony McGregor, Whatsaap groups that claim Conor's friends cousin's sister's Aunt knows a fella that seen McGregor do something bad? Fook no.
    Beasty wrote: »
    A lot of forums have "Off topic" threads - what about trying that here? Try and ring fence the "non-sporting" stuff so those who don't want to engage in that can steer clear of the thread

    It's possibly the most flexible solution Beasty, but again, my only concern is that a thread such as that would encompass some of the good stuff too, meaning people might have to trawl through some serious OT stuff to get to it. I do agree though, how to determine "the good stuff" from the not so, is the problem.

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  • #45
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,100 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    riffmongous wrote: »
    One thing I would like to see is the General News Thread being used less and more new threads being set up, or when something noteworthy happens the posts are split off from there and into a new thread by a mod, it might encourage people to post more and seems to work well in the Pro Wrestling forum.

    I'd definitely agree with this. Too many good topics can get lost in there.


  • #46
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,100 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    Inviere wrote: »
    I appreciate that what I personally feel is relevant, another poster might not, and vice versa. I used those examples for these reasons; Tony's mental health problems are just that, problems. It's not something that's going to cause trolling, offense, and arguing etc. It's directly connected to Tony's career, and will determine if and/or when we might see Tony in the ring again - we're all rooting for him I'm sure, so it's something that'd be good in terms of discussion, and community building.

    Similarly, McGregor's beach antics could have an impact on his career also. It's another bump in the road, a very long and bumpy road of late, for McGregor. Ok, it's a subject that could harbour ill will/fighter bashing, but I think to outlaw discussion on it is really exposing the fact that we need more versatile definitions of acceptable/not acceptable topics here. It made headlines, so it should be acknowledged, with a heavy handed approach to fighter bashing/trolling.

    Proper 12, Tony McGregor, Instagram Babies, and what not, have no relevance to fights, upcoming fights, potential fights, careers, UFC, MMA...those sort of things (imo) are completely and totally irrelevant here. They fuel fighter bashing, posts antagonise people, causes I'm sure a not insignificant extra work for Axwell, and are discussions of no value in an MMA forum. Boards will cater to that type of thing, just go to AH or the Celebrity forums to do it.



    But how many people here are interested in hearing about McGregor's career? Is he training again? He's been seen training here, there, somewhere else. Has he fallen out with Kavanagh? He's just promised Nate a trilogy match, can he possibly adapt to overcome Khabib? Will he get the winner of Poirier and Holloway? How will he fare against a much improved version of Max/Dustin if he does?

    ^^ Personally, I love all that stuff. Am I interested in Proper 12, Instagram rumours, Tony McGregor, Whatsaap groups that claim Conor's friends cousin's sister's Aunt knows a fella that seen McGregor do something bad? Fook no.



    It's possibly the most flexible solution Beasty, but again, my only concern is that a thread such as that would encompass some of the good stuff too, meaning people might have to trawl through some serious OT stuff to get to it. I do agree though, how to determine "the good stuff" from the not so, is the problem.

    Tony's mental health issues could definitely attract trolling and offense. Proper 12 is relevant to McGregor's fight career. People have already brought up how he's spending too much time on it and losing his focus, not training enough as a result.


  • #47
    Axwell
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Axwell


    Inviere wrote: »
    I appreciate that what I personally feel is relevant, another poster might not, and vice versa. I used those examples for these reasons; Tony's mental health problems are just that, problems. It's not something that's going to cause trolling, offense, and arguing etc. It's directly connected to Tony's career, and will determine if and/or when we might see Tony in the ring again - we're all rooting for him I'm sure, so it's something that'd be good in terms of discussion, and community building.

    Just in reference to this - a post was made not so long ago regarding Matt Hughes and a restraining order placed against him for similar reasons. The posts that followed were less than sympathetic, name calling and opinions of him and generally added nothing in the form of adult discussion. People also have different opinions on fighters, not everyone is guaranteed to like or be rooting for a fighter. So it's not as clear cut as to assume it's not going to cause offence, arguing etc - it led to name calling and fighter bashing in this case alone. Every case is different and those are just two examples which fall on either side of the coin.

    As regards the overall discussion on adding a thread for gossip/other relevant topics. While people have different opinions on what is relevant or what is interesting to them. Common sense on what is acceptable and not acceptable regardless of the topic is something that seems to either be ignored or people just don't think before they post. Some people also are just trolls clearly there to provoke a reaction from others and have little or no interest in proper discussion regardless of the topic, they do not post on any other threads for the most part in the forum. If there is a discussion about McGregor smashing a phone, what exactly is someone adding to the discussion dropping in to post 'he's a knacker'? Discussion about how it might affect when he fights next, or what his mental state is are relevant and there is room for that but the posters dropping in with comments like 'cocaine is a hell of a drug' etc..they are just juvenile and show a level of immaturity that drags the thread into nonsense comments adding no value and off topic conversation about accusations of recreational drug use which has nothing to do with MMA. I personally couldn't care less about what he does outside the cage. I see some people claim as a mod I am biased towards him. My only interest is what he does inside the cage, outside of it I couldn't care less about his antics and have no interest in the drama it brings however as a mod I have to deal with the nonsense that people post on here. Many simply ignoring the charter about fighter bashing, name calling etc - it has nothing to do with being biased, people are simply not following the rules laid out on the forum. The fact that a whole thread is dedicated to him and he is in the media more often lately than in the cage means, as a result, there is obviously more cases of these type of rule breaks in relation to him over other fighters but the rules still apply and people will face repercussions as a result.

    If people want to be able to discuss a wider range of topics and that was approved then the onus is on them to realise as a result there is an expectation that any discussion is done so in an adult manner, if it isn't then people should not be shocked or surprised if they are carded or banned. At the end of the day this is an MMA forum, not a gossip column and while there are wider topics that flow into the discussion if you are here simply to gossip and goad other people or just generally add nothing to the forum but nonsense comments then you are on the wrong place.

    If there is to be some sort of move towards having a separate thread for gossip/related stories/whatever and that is what is decided then it should be expected that it will be moderated with a heavy hand and nonsense will simply not be tolerated. It can't be treated like a free for all where anything goes because it is in the 'gossip' thread and not in the 'MMA focussed thread'. Otherwise, there is little point in adding such a thread just for the nonsense to move from one thread to another with the same disregard for what is acceptable and what is not.


  • #48
    Inviere
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,755 ✭✭✭Inviere


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    Tony's mental health issues could definitely attract trolling and offense.

    That's what the charter is there to protect against. There needs to be very little in the form of leeway on this, and is mentioned by Axwell below, people are taking advantage of it. Trolling and offensive comments for the sake of being offensive, week off. Next time, month off. Again? Bye bye. That needs to be applied across the board, all threads, all users, for it to be effective. It needs to be backed up by more mods too, for the sake of Axwell's own mental health! :o
    Proper 12 is relevant to McGregor's fight career. People have already brought up how he's spending too much time on it and losing his focus, not training enough as a result.

    Not in the way that Tony's problems are relevant. Tony wants to fight, mental breakdown isn't a distraction, it's an affliction. Even at that, fair enough, if Proper 12 is on the cards, the same applies - a near zero tolerance on nonsense trolling. If it's distracting him from training, fine, that's his choice. I don't see it as relevant, if some do, fair enough.
    Axwell wrote: »
    Just in reference to this - a post was made not so long ago regarding Matt Hughes and a restraining order placed against him for similar reasons. The posts that followed were less than sympathetic, name calling and opinions of him and generally added nothing in the form of adult discussion. People also have different opinions on fighters, not everyone is guaranteed to like or be rooting for a fighter. So it's not as clear cut as to assume it's not going to cause offence, arguing etc - it led to name calling and fighter bashing in this case alone. Every case is different and those are just two examples which fall on either side of the coin.

    The domestic violence stuff? Indeed, I can see how that would spark some heated debate. Again though, I don't think the topic needs to be censored here - just apply a hard and fast banning policy on fighter bashing/trolling. If people can't debate the issue without resorting to name calling, bashing, and antagonising others, let the charter fall down upon them...that leaves the topic open for those of us who are capable of discussing more serious matters affecting fighters, in a mature way.
    If there is a discussion about McGregor smashing a phone, what exactly is someone adding to the discussion dropping in to post 'he's a knacker'? Discussion about how it might affect when he fights next, or what his mental state is are relevant and there is room for that but the posters dropping in with comments like 'cocaine is a hell of a drug' etc..they are just juvenile and show a level of immaturity that drags the thread into nonsense comments adding no value and off topic conversation about accusations of recreational drug use which has nothing to do with MMA.

    "He's a knacker" and "cocaine is a hell of a drug" and those types of comments should be an instaban. I think anyone here who'd like to see such debate, and have no issue debating it in a mature fashion, would applaud you for taking hard/fast action on that exact type of comment. Let them take it to the DRP, speak to Cmods & Admins, if it's in the charter it's a slam dunk ban. Next time will be a longer one too. You'll gradually clean the house with that approach, and gain support from forum regulars who hate that nonsense anyway.
    I personally couldn't care less about what he does outside the cage. I see some people claim as a mod I am biased towards him. My only interest is what he does inside the cage, outside of it I couldn't care less about his antics and have no interest in the drama it brings however as a mod I have to deal with the nonsense that people post on here. Many simply ignoring the charter about fighter bashing, name calling etc - it has nothing to do with being biased, people are simply not following the rules laid out on the forum. The fact that a whole thread is dedicated to him and he is in the media more often in the cage means, as a result, there is obviously more cases of these type of rule breaks in relation to him over other fighters but the rules still apply and people will face repercussions as a result.

    I sympathise with you, I'd say the forum is a total headache at times. From one poster to another, a genuine piece of advice, work on getting some help for yourself in terms of more mods. Train them in, get yourselves working as a team, and I think tackling trolls becomes a lot easier, your own enjoyment of the site will go up, and it'll be a significant load off your back.
    If there is to be some sort of move towards having a separate thread for gossip/related stories/whatever and that is what is decided then it should be expected that it will be moderated with a heavy hand and nonsense will simply not be tolerated. It can't be treated like a free for all where anything goes because it is in the 'gossip' thread and not in the 'MMA focussed thread'. Otherwise, there is little point in adding such a thread just for the nonsense to move from one thread to another with the same disregard for what is acceptable and what is not.

    Go one further, apply that policy forum-wide.

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  • #49
    Axwell
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Axwell


    Inviere wrote: »
    I sympathise with you, I'd say the forum is a total headache at times. From one poster to another, a genuine piece of advice, work on getting some help for yourself in terms of more mods. Train them in, get yourselves working as a team, and I think tackling trolls becomes a lot easier, your own enjoyment of the site will go up, and it'll be a significant load off your back.

    As was mentioned above we have been going through the process of getting a few more bodies on board but there hasn't been much uptake as most aren't interested in the position due to the McGregor thread and the attention it requires.


  • #50
    Inviere
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,755 ✭✭✭Inviere


    Axwell wrote: »
    As was mentioned above we have been going through the process of getting a few more bodies on board but there hasn't been much uptake as most aren't interested in the position due to the McGregor thread and the attention it requires.

    I was about to suggest branching out and see if the mods of Martial Arts & Self Defence would be interested, but that forum doesn't even have mods :o

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  • #51
    Zero-Cool
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,901 ✭✭✭✭Zero-Cool


    Might it be worth destroying the McGregor thread? Any news related to him can be put in the general MMA thread whether it's a fight announcement or update like 'Conor arrested again' just like I'd expect a big news update about any MMA fighter where it's about fighting or not.

    Obviously, gossip would have no place there bar the actual MMA journalist rumours. As in, no 'my brothers sisters uncle said a taxi driver told him Conor is after having an affair with Artem'.

    Might be easier to mod the blow ins from after hours every time Conor sneezes but we would still be able to have actual MMA related discussions about what goes on in and outside the cage.

    Being a former mod on a very quiet forum, the odd few complaints and bickering did my head in. No idea how Axwel deals with some of the shyte on here while trying to avoid legality issues.

    Anyway, just a suggestion.


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