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MMA Forum Feedback.

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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Axwell


    Not quite sure what you are asking exactly. Acknowledging it exists on the thread means bringing it up in a discussion which clearly isn't allowed.

    Anyone who is interested in MMA/follows the sport/reads social media is going to be aware of any legal issues etc so not sure where the risk is of any other discussion becoming farcical or why there would be a need to reference something which would be a breach of the charter.


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,766 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Axwell wrote: »
    Not quite sure what you are asking exactly. Acknowledging it exists on the thread means bringing it up in a discussion which clearly isn't allowed.

    I think this is key here. The problem is when someone mentions what may be an irrefutable "fact", that encourages others to discuss the issue (and in some cases speculate in a fashion that could prejudice potential court cases). It's not an area many of us claim any legal expertise on, and hard and fast rules prohibiting such discussion avoids what could be potentially risky judgement calls

    Overlay a desire from many regulars (some expressing views in this thread) that they want the discussion to be about the sport, and not issues of a personal nature that the likes of McGregor can get involved in, perhaps the way the rules are applies (particularly in the McGregor thread) is the only way to try and keep a lid on stuff which really is off-topic


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,671 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Axwell wrote: »
    Not quite sure what you are asking exactly. Acknowledging it exists on the thread means bringing it up in a discussion which clearly isn't allowed.

    Anyone who is interested in MMA/follows the sport/reads social media is going to be aware of any legal issues etc so not sure where the risk is of any other discussion becoming farcical or why there would be a need to reference something which would be a breach of the charter.
    Well we don't all follow social media, and i dont pay attention to stuff that is just rumours. I watch the events and I get most of my news from reading here nowadays..I ask because It's only when I saw a deleted post and went to sherdog to check that I saw a very different side of things. I totally understand and agree that the legal stuff cannot be commented on, but to me that's different to acknowledging that legal issues exist which is important to know if you are discussing someone and it's known and published news in the rest of the world. To me you get two wildly different discussions and theories on what is happening depending on what you know (it's hard to get any clearer without big specific )

    Feel free to snip my post after reading it


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Axwell


    The issue as I said (and Beasty repeated) is that once something is mentioned then a discussion is bound to follow on from it and that takes it in a direction it isn't allowed to go. At the end of the day, any theories or discussion suggesting certain events are partly related would also have to follow these rules so would be limited by that. Prohibiting such discussion avoids what could be potentially risky judgement calls as above.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭The Floyd p


    I feel for the most part the moderating on this forum is fair. I'm relatively new to the forum but tbh I'm personally more interested in other fights/fighters than McGregor. I feel like insta bans for anything potentially libelous or just blatantly trolling ("McGregor is a knacker" "All the drugs is getting to him" etc) would require an additional mod to clean things up, which would be welcome as most right minded MMA fans have scope beyond CMcG and don't want the forum cluttered with that stuff. I also like the implementation of a minimum post limit. Beyond the McGregor thread most threads don't see much traction from the usual faces so you'd almost be able to spot straight away someone spamming the general thread or betting thread in order to get a post count up.

    It's annoying really because Ireland is in a unique position having one of the most famous athletes in the world, as well as a really knowledgeable MMA core group here. The consistent posters here have opened my eyes personally on fighting styles, fighters on the rise as well as MMA spots around the country for local training. Ultimately the McGregor shine will wear off (hopefully soon) and this forum will remain. I don't mind some more heavy action by mod(s) for the time being to cut out all the nonsense surrounding him by lurkers, but personal issues/matters relating to other fighters should be fine to be discussed once not of a legal sensitivity. I doubt anyone beyond "serious" MMA fans want to discuss Ferguson's situation, for instance.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,192 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Here's the gas thing.
    Loads of comments which come across as sneery on this forum about "not real fans" or whatever.
    Yet if you look at the front page of the forum, most threads seem to revolve around UFC.

    Full disclosure: I don't follow it or consider it a sport. I consider this UFC as some form of entertainment but not one I'd be bothered to pay to watch. Would have a passing curiosity in what it is all about. There is a girl I used to know through boxing who was pro MMA (but not with UFC). I don't know if she still is. I hadn't seen her in about 8 years though before I saw that she was doing it and was professional.

    But then if you come here to have a read about it or try to find out what the attraction actually is, you are hit with that cliquey shite.

    Again, I have even less interest in soccerball, but I'd have to imagine an analogy would be me trying to post on a soccer forum and being told I wasn't welcome because I wasn't a "real fan" like the rest of them who mainly talk only about Real Madrid and Lionel Messi.

    The rule appears to be that anything perceived to be a "positive" for one particular individual is allowed, but if it could be viewed as negative then it's wiped off the site. Bad behaviour is allowed to be reported as long as it's because "he's a mad yoke and legend".

    Outside of sport, you had the likes of Jimmy Saville who was held in high esteem and respected because high-up people in the BBC snipped any coverage of his known indiscretions and portrayed him as a great lad and a hero. I'm not saying that anyone is remotely as bad as Saville, but the sweeping under the carpet of anything remotely negative about someone is not dissimilar. To be honest, it also comes across as a little sad and as if people think that either they are already friends with the fella in their own head, or that if they look after him online, that one day he will find it out and then become great friends with them :-)


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭Steve


    Here's the gas thing.
    Loads of comments which come across as sneery on this forum about "not real fans" or whatever.
    Yet if you look at the front page of the forum, most threads seem to revolve around UFC.

    Full disclosure: I don't follow it or consider it a sport. I consider this UFC as some form of entertainment but not one I'd be bothered to pay to watch. Would have a passing curiosity in what it is all about. There is a girl I used to know through boxing who was pro MMA (but not with UFC). I don't know if she still is. I hadn't seen her in about 8 years though before I saw that she was doing it and was professional.

    But then if you come here to have a read about it or try to find out what the attraction actually is, you are hit with that cliquey shite.

    Again, I have even less interest in soccerball, but I'd have to imagine an analogy would be me trying to post on a soccer forum and being told I wasn't welcome because I wasn't a "real fan" like the rest of them who mainly talk only about Real Madrid and Lionel Messi.

    The rule appears to be that anything perceived to be a "positive" for one particular individual is allowed, but if it could be viewed as negative then it's wiped off the site. Bad behaviour is allowed to be reported as long as it's because "he's a mad yoke and legend".

    Outside of sport, you had the likes of Jimmy Saville who was held in high esteem and respected because high-up people in the BBC snipped any coverage of his known indiscretions and portrayed him as a great lad and a hero. I'm not saying that anyone is remotely as bad as Saville, but the sweeping under the carpet of anything remotely negative about someone is not dissimilar. To be honest, it also comes across as a little sad and as if people think that either they are already friends with the fella in their own head, or that if they look after him online, that one day he will find it out and then become great friends with them :-)
    If you went into the tennis forum and said 'I don't think tennis is a sport' what reaction would you expect?

    While the feedback is welcome, my answer is that this is an MMA forum, if you don't like that fact then the rest of the internet is at your disposal.

    It's this way
    >

    :)


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Axwell


    I would also add that what you consider as 'brushing under the carpet' is actually strict moderation due to the legal ramifications of discussion around a potential court case. There are bigger concerns here concerning legal matters than the simplistic view of whether someone's image gets tarnished and people find out they are not a 'great lad and a hero' as you put it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,192 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Steve wrote: »
    If you went into the tennis forum and said 'I don't think tennis is a sport' what reaction would you expect?

    While the feedback is welcome, my answer is that this is an MMA forum, if you don't like that fact then the rest of the internet is at your disposal.

    It's this way
    >

    :)




    I said I was not a fan of UFC. And I do not claim to have anything other than a very very passing knowledge of it. But it would be my basic understanding that MMA does not equate wholly and totally with UFC.
    I would assume that there is more to MMA than UFC. But maybe there isn't.




    If I went to the rugby forum and said I was not a fan of tag-rugby, or sevens rugby, I don't think I'd be told to leave the forum.


    But you illustrated my point with the "
    >".


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,733 ✭✭✭ASOT


    I said I was not a fan of UFC. And I do not claim to have anything other than a very very passing knowledge of it. But it would be my basic understanding that MMA does not equate wholly and totally with UFC.
    I would assume that there is more to MMA than UFC. But maybe there isn't.




    If I went to the rugby forum and said I was not a fan of tag-rugby, or sevens rugby, I don't think I'd be told to leave the forum.


    But you illustrated my point with the "
    >".

    His point is if you don't consider it a sport why would you waste your time discussing it on a forum? Seems fairly pointless. I don't believe in religion so I wouldn't bother going to any of the religious forums on here.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,192 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Axwell wrote: »
    I would also add that what you consider as 'brushing under the carpet' is actually strict moderation due to the legal ramifications of discussion around a potential court case. There are bigger concerns here concerning legal matters than the simplistic view of whether someone's image gets tarnished and people find out they are not a 'great lad and a hero' as you put it.




    Well surely those same concerns would be present in other, actual "gossipy" threads on the matter which exist elsewhere on the site?


    And surely those same concerns existed when someone threw bottles of water at a press conference? Or when they rounded up a group of gentlemen to fly on a private jet to "fight bus" and injure people in retaliation under the guise of somehow honourably sticking up for a friend. Or when they get involved in post-fight trouble, taking and giving a few slaps? All those things were discussed but because some people actually consider them somehow positive, they are allowed.


    I'm not even talking about allowing allegations or rumours. But when someone is arrested and charged for something, not being allowed to mention that fact on a thread specifically about him is ridiculous and is sweeping it under the carpet.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,192 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    ASOT wrote: »
    His point is if you don't consider it a sport why would you waste your time discussing it on a forum? Seems fairly pointless. I don't believe in religion so I wouldn't bother going to any of the religious forums on here.




    Does everyone on here have the opinion that MMA=UFC???????????


    I can't come on here to try to find out a bit about MMA because I don't really care about UFC?


    Seems a bit mad

    Maybe the forum should be renamed to "UFC" rather than "MMA"


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,733 ✭✭✭ASOT


    Does everyone on here have the opinion that MMA=UFC???????????


    I can't come on here to try to find out a bit about MMA because I don't really care about UFC?


    Seems a bit mad

    Maybe the forum should be renamed to "UFC" rather than "MMA"

    By your own admission you don't consider it a sport?
    Full disclosure: I don't follow it or consider it a sport.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,192 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    ASOT wrote: »
    By your own admission you don't consider it a sport?




    Nice selective quoting

    Yet if you look at the front page of the forum, most threads seem to revolve around UFC.

    Full disclosure: I don't follow it or consider it a sport. I consider this UFC as some form of entertainment but not one I'd be bothered to pay to watch.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,733 ✭✭✭ASOT


    Nice selective quoting
    Nice selective quoting

    Well considering the UFC is an organization surely you can see where that could be wrongly picked up from that sentence? So my bad there. Nobody considers it a sport but it's the premier promotion though so it'd be expected to have the majority of the traffic, the same way the soccer forum is dominated by Premiership threads etc?


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Axwell


    Well surely those same concerns would be present in other, actual "gossipy" threads on the matter which exist elsewhere on the site?

    I don't moderate those other threads so they are not my concern - that's down to the mods of those forums. But there are rules in relation to discussing legal matters and those are across boards.ie as a whole.

    And surely those same concerns existed when someone threw bottles of water at a press conference? Or when they rounded up a group of gentlemen to fly on a private jet to "fight bus" and injure people in retaliation under the guise of somehow honourably sticking up for a friend. Or when they get involved in post-fight trouble, taking and giving a few slaps? All those things were discussed but because some people actually consider them somehow positive, they are allowed.

    I would hope that you understand the difference between someone throwing a bottle of water and the legal ramifications of a full-blown trial and court case in Ireland that could potentially happen in relation to other stories or any discussion about it.

    It's quite clear on the forum that discussion on anything related to legal issues or court cases is not allowed, that won't change and it isn't up for debate so unless you have relevant feedback relating to something else on the forum then kindly stop derailing the thread.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,192 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    ASOT wrote: »
    Well considering the UFC is an organization surely you can see where that could be wrongly picked up from that sentence? So my bad there. Nobody considers it a sport but it's the premier promotion though so it'd be expected to have the majority of the traffic, the same way the soccer forum is dominated by Premiership threads etc?




    Fair enough. I might not have made that sentence crystal clear but if you re-read the post again you will see that I was talking about not being arsed about UFC. That doesn't bar me from:
    A) Being curious as to the attraction to the phenomenon for other people. You know- just wondering what it's all about and why I don't "get" it.
    B) Being interested in MMA in general.



    I would think on a soccer forum, that there would be people who wouldn't consider "Premiership" followers to be real fans. Maybe not a lot, but I think there are hardcore LOI supporters who consider real fans to be people who follow local clubs. as I said though, I don't have interest at all in soccer. I just mentioned it as it is a very popular sport.





    My background is boxing. It is a great sport. But I don't have that much interest in pro boxing. Would take an interest in the Irish fellas who go on to box pro. I'd like to see them doing well. I'd read the stories on who they are boxing and the results. Jono Carroll fights Tevin Farmer for a World title and I'll be interested and follow the build up. I'll read the report the next day. But I won't care if or when Tevin Farmer fights Gervonta Davis. I'll keep an eye on how Jason Quigley is doing. Or even the lesser known fellas like Darragh Foley. For non-Irish participation, I wouldn't have a huge interest but maybe I'll watch a video of Lomachenko's fight because he's technically brilliant. But I have no interest in the pro-boxing soap opera in general.


    Other people like UFC. That's fine. Nothing wrong with it. I haven't been able to jump on the bandwagon. Am I missing something? I don't know. Can I not come here and try to read a bit about it.



    What am I going to comment on if I am here? There is no point in me trying to comment on some technical aspect of a fight because I don't know the technicalities. I won't comment on some random (to me) UFC fella's record because I don't know about them. I can comment on someone throwing a lump of metal through a bus though. So the fact that someone only appears to comment for those types of incident doesn't mean they only come over to cause trouble.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Axwell


    You have gone off on tangents talking about soccer, boxing and about your lack of interest in MMA and not being able to discuss technical aspects or fighters records which has nothing to do with this discussion. It is neither feedback or a suggestion in relation to the current topic.

    If you want to post on the forum then do so following the rules of the charter. I suggest you familiarise yourself with the recently updated charter and read the first post in the current McGregor thread regarding recent updates.

    Now again unless you have relevant feedback or suggestions as per the purpose of this thread and recent discussion then stop derailing it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,056 ✭✭✭darced


    Axwel and Steve can I say I'm sorry for being narky with you, God help you I don't know how you do it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,192 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Axwell wrote: »
    You have gone off on tangents talking about soccer, boxing and about your lack of interest in MMA and not being able to discuss technical aspects or fighters records which has nothing to do with this discussion. It is neither feedback or a suggestion in relation to the current topic.

    If you want to post on the forum then do so following the rules of the charter. I suggest you familiarise yourself with the recently updated charter and read the first post in the current McGregor thread regarding recent updates.

    Now again unless you have relevant feedback or suggestions as per the purpose of this thread and recent discussion then stop derailing it.




    No I haven't. I was responding to people on the thread and using it to explain by simple analogy because people come across obsessed with UFC as if it is the only aspect of MMA. I gave my feedback, then I was challenged and then I responded. It is feedback to say that non-technical people should be allowed to post an odd time even if they don't know all the UFC fighters history off by heart. As it is, it isn't that welcoming of a place for outside views. That is the feedback


    I did familiarize myself with the charter as it happens. For concrete feedback - In fairness, it should be fixed up a bit as it doesn't give a good impression

    9) No dicsussion of MAI
    In light of legal proceedings issued by MAI - We can not discuss MAI, it's websites, it's instructors or training.

    10) Spoilers
    No talk of recent fights and results unless it is in the relvant event thread - if there is none then create one, do not post it in General Chat or another thread. Its still a spoiler if you give the result away in a thread title within a reasonable time period of 1 week, you can talk about it but just give a spoiler warning and don't give results away with obvious headings! No one wants to be spoiled or receive an email notification with the result of a fight because you were too lazy to set up a thread.

    11) No talk of Illegal Streams
    Streams that would be considered illegal or in breach of copyright are not permitted on the site. Asking for these streams is also a break of this rule, anything that is breaking the law is not allowed and will be dealt with with instant ban.

    12) No dicsussion of MAI
    In light of legal proceedings issued by MAI - We can not discuss MAI, it's websites, it's instructors or training.

    I mean, I did say I don't consider UFC a sport. But many multiple posts later, repeating that I said UFC not MMA, you still haven't grasped that and say I said I had a "lack of interest in MMA". Is it me that is wrong? Is UFC=MMA.

    If people want to be cliquey and condescending about their own knowledge and experience related to "not real fans", then have a thread where you can all post your own competitive records. That's a feedback suggestion. I am sure there are people here who are good, and then some who never laced up a glove. (Or pulled it on or whatever you do for what you wear in MMA)


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  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,060 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    <snip>

    Mod: This is a feedback thread - not one for general discussion and back and forth between posters. That discussion can happen elsewhere.

    Thanks


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Axwell


    ...

    Thanks for your feedback.

    As I said above post in the forum as you wish as long as it is within the rules. If you don't like the forum and prefer the gossip style thread elsewhere on boards you are free to post there instead.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭Steve


    So is my understanding of this correct? please educate me.

    MMA Is the Sport. UFC is the major organisation / promotion within the sport.

    So - that's akin to saying Hurling is the sport, GAA is the major organisation / promotion within that sport.

    I'm trying to separate what is genuine feedback from possible stirring (trolling) here.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Axwell


    Steve wrote: »
    So is my understanding of this correct? please educate me.

    MMA Is the Sport. UFC is the major organisation / promotion within the sport.

    So - that's akin to saying Hurling is the sport, GAA is the major organisation / promotion within that sport.

    I'm trying to separate what is genuine feedback from possible stirring (trolling) here.

    Correct.


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,156 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Here's the gas thing.
    Loads of comments which come across as sneery on this forum about "not real fans" or whatever.
    Yet if you look at the front page of the forum, most threads seem to revolve around UFC.
    The UFC is the worlds biggest, most popular MMA promotion.
    I suspect you know this.
    But it would be my basic understanding that MMA does not equate wholly and totally with UFC.
    The UFC promote MMA events and MMA events only.

    Your comments make come across like you are trying to be a smart arsed, but not quite pulling it off.
    If I went to the rugby forum and said I was not a fan of tag-rugby, or sevens rugby, I don't think I'd be told to leave the forum.
    Tag rubgy is not the same sport as rugby union. So not really a good analogy.
    Fair enough. I might not have made that sentence crystal clear but if you re-read the post again you will see that I was talking about not being arsed about UFC. That doesn't bar me from:
    A) Being curious as to the attraction to the phenomenon for other people. You know- just wondering what it's all about and why I don't "get" it.
    B) Being interested in MMA in general.

    Nobody is stopping you from posting about MMA. There are non-UFC posts constantly.
    But you've made c.50 posts in this forum, almost universally about McGregor.
    Do you actually think anyone buys for a second, that you want to actually want to post about MMA generally.
    If people want to be cliquey and condescending about their own knowledge and experience related to "not real fans", then have a thread where you can all post your own competitive records. That's a feedback suggestion.
    What has a competitive record got to do with being a fan.

    When people dismiss posts as "not real fans". They are dismissing people who are trolling, and not really interesting in MMA (or UFC).


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,192 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Mellor wrote: »
    The UFC is the worlds biggest, most popular MMA promotion.
    I suspect you know this.


    The UFC promote MMA events and MMA events only.

    Your comments make come across like you are trying to be a smart arsed, but not quite pulling it off.


    Tag rubgy is not the same sport as rugby union. So not really a good analogy.



    Nobody is stopping you from posting about MMA. There are non-UFC posts constantly.
    But you've made c.50 posts in this forum, almost universally about McGregor.
    Do you actually think anyone buys for a second, that you want to actually want to post about MMA generally.


    What has a competitive record got to do with being a fan.

    When people dismiss posts as "not real fans". They are dismissing people who are trolling, and not really interesting in MMA (or UFC).




    Lol.


    It's a feedback thread so I won't respond here. Put your points elsewhere and I might :)



    Edited to add: There was absolutely no threat implied or intended by the above. I am merely saying I cannot respond to your points on this thread but could on another thread. I am very surprised that it could have been read as a threat. I still don't see it, even after reading multiple times. There is nothing in your post that would upset or annoy me so that makes it even more surprising. I was laughing only that you went to the bother to post it in a feedback thread. Especially after other ones directed at me had been snipped. That's all. I didn't respond to them even though I saw them


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,766 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Lol.


    It's a feedback thread so I won't respond here. Put your points elsewhere and I might :)
    Your approach in this thread makes it very clear to me that you are exactly the sort of poster who causes problems for the mods as well as other users. They want to keep discussion to the sport - you want to gossip or indeed stir things up.

    Your above comment comes across as some kind of threat, and as you say is nothing to do with Feedback


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,156 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    It's a feedback thread so I won't respond here. Put your points elsewhere and I might :)
    It was giving feedback on the posts you made. Sorry that you didn't understand.


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,766 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Just by way of update, we've been trying to find a bit more modding support for Axwell, but have struggled. In light of that I'm going to start actively modding (and will add my name to the mod list). I'm not going to be contributing much to the various discussions, which is not necessarily a good thing, but I will hopefully be around a bit more time-wise, and having little interest in the "sport" can hopefully apply the rules in an unbiased fashion

    In terms of challenging any cards or bans, the option of going to DRP will be there, and I would not expect any favouritism when it comes to appeals. For the purposes of this forum I sit alongside Axwell in "status"


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,247 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    Good to see a new Mod. Not so good to see that he/she feels the need to put " " around the word sport to describe MMA. :(


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