~ Building a House in 2020 ~

Frozen Veg · 03-12-2020 9:25pm

tails_naf wrote: »

For my house I was offered a turn key option for something similar per sq ft, would have cost 600k to go that way, built it for 240k all in, incuding flooring, kitchen all tiling and painting done. It was a busy year of my life though!

It's irrelevant making comparisons unless the specs are similar. So many variables when it comes to things like Windows, slates, finishes, heating systems etc.

Saying that anyone can save 60% by going self build is false. Yes there are some savings to be made but not at that magnitude.

tails_naf · 04-12-2020 8:08am

Frozen Veg wrote: »

It's irrelevant making comparisons unless the specs are similar. So many variables when it comes to things like Windows, slates, finishes, heating systems etc.

Saying that anyone can save 60% by going self build is false. Yes there are some savings to be made but not at that magnitude.

My house is done to a high spec though, so the comparison is fair. A3 rated, air tightness with MHRV, under floor heating throughout, lighting control/automation system, solid oak stairs, custom made kitchen, etc. You could knock off 10k due to the fact I have an oil boiler (plus solar thermal) vs air to water for the heating but theres a fair gap between 240k and 600k.

Frozen Veg · 04-12-2020 12:47pm

tails_naf wrote: »

My house is done to a high spec though, so the comparison is fair. A3 rated, air tightness with MHRV, under floor heating throughout, lighting control/automation system, solid oak stairs, custom made kitchen, etc. You could knock off 10k due to the fact I have an oil boiler (plus solar thermal) vs air to water for the heating but theres a fair gap between 240k and 600k.

I can only comment on my own recent experiences.

But the below would be examples of some costs which regardless if you go self build or not are hard to save on.
- aluclad windows and doors €35k
- stairs €8k
- Flooring and tiling finishes €15k
- electrician €15k
- percolation system €7k
- plumbing and a2w heating system €22k
- MVHR €5K
- Insulation €15k
- handmade kitchen and utility €20k
- bathroom ware €8k
- professional architect, engineer, council fees etc €25k
- electrics and furnishings €15k

Those alone bring it to €190k. I would feel there is little scope to reduce these costs materially unless you are qualified in one of the trades e.g. electrician.
In addition to those, you have the other main costs.
- blocklaying
- site prep and foundations
- plastering
- preliminaries e.g scaffolding, insurance etc
- screed
- roof
- painting
- boundary walls and fencing
- stonework
- external finishes, tarmac, kerbing, gutters etc

Fair play to anyone who can do all the above for €250k. For anyone that claims they can or have done recently, it would be interesting to see the category breakdowns for comparison.

housetypeb · 04-12-2020 6:12pm

Frozen Veg wrote: »

I can only comment on my own recent experiences.

But the below would be examples of some costs which regardless if you go self build or not are hard to save on.
- aluclad windows and doors €35k
- stairs €8k
- Flooring and tiling finishes €15k
- electrician €15k
- percolation system €7k
- plumbing and a2w heating system €22k
- MVHR €5K
- Insulation €15k
- handmade kitchen and utility €20k
- bathroom ware €8k
- professional architect, engineer, council fees etc €25k
- electrics and furnishings €15k

Those alone bring it to €190k. I would feel there is little scope to reduce these costs materially unless you are qualified in one of the trades e.g. electrician.
In addition to those, you have the other main costs.
- blocklaying
- site prep and foundations
- plastering
- preliminaries e.g scaffolding, insurance etc
- screed
- roof
- painting
- boundary walls and fencing
- stonework
- external finishes, tarmac, kerbing, gutters etc

Fair play to anyone who can do all the above for €250k. For anyone that claims they can or have done recently, it would be interesting to see the category breakdowns for comparison.

It's the difference between doing it yourself or paying a builder to pay a man to do it.

I expect to self build 221 sq/m for around 250k. the base is passive.
It's only doable if you're in a trade and are hands on.

For instance.

Kore insulated base.

site clearance. 2,500
hardcore for base. 3.000
Kore 300mm insulated base. 8,600
Steel mesh,etc for base 3,000
piping,underfloor heating /waste,water etc. 3,200
concrete 3,000

Total. 25-26k give or take.

I have no idea what a builder would charge for a 221 sq /m passive base,as I never even considered not doing it myself.

hurikane · 04-12-2020 6:23pm

housetypeb wrote: »

It's the difference between doing it yourself or paying a builder to pay a man to do it.

I expect to self build 221 sq/m for around 250k. the base is passive.
It's only doable if you're in a trade and are hands on.

For instance.

Kore insulated base.

site clearance. 2,500
hardcore for base. 3.000
Kore 300mm insulated base. 8,600
Steel mesh,etc for base 3,000
piping,underfloor heating /waste,water etc. 3,200
concrete 3,000

Total. 25-26k give or take.

I have no idea what a builder would charge for a 221 sq /m passive base,as I never even considered not doing it myself.

What trade are you in?

When are you starting?

Where are you building?

Frozen Veg · 04-12-2020 6:23pm

housetypeb wrote: »

It's the difference between doing it yourself or paying a builder to pay a man to do it.

I expect to self build 221 sq/m for around 250k. the base is passive.
It's only doable if you're in a trade and are hands on.

For instance.

Kore insulated base.

site clearance. 2,500
hardcore for base. 3.000
Kore 300mm insulated base. 8,600
Steel mesh,etc for base 3,000
piping,underfloor heating /waste,water etc. 3,200
concrete 3,000

Total. 25-26k give or take.

I have no idea what a builder would charge for a 221 sq /m passive base,as I never even considered not doing it myself.

Of course I get where someone is going to do alot the the work themselves, there are obviously savings to be made.

That's not an option really for someone who doesn't work in construction.

For someone who has no hands on construction experience, the €250k 220sqm house is not possible really.

housetypeb · 04-12-2020 6:35pm

hurikane wrote: »

What trade are you in?

When are you starting?

Where are you building?

Mercenary blocklayer was my main occupation but had occasion on my travels to try other specialist subjects like external insulation.
Already started,blocks on flat are up to roof level,paused for a while as I ponder about the roof,probably summer before I tackle that.
In the south.
May I go now,officer?

dubrov · 04-12-2020 7:06pm

tails_naf wrote: »

theres a fair gap between 240k and 600k.

There certainly is. You should consider giving up your day job. Think how much easier it would be to do it a second time as well

hurikane · 04-12-2020 7:12pm

housetypeb wrote: »

Mercenary blocklayer was my main occupation but had occasion on my travels to try other specialist subjects like external insulation.
Already started,blocks on flat are up to roof level,paused for a while as I ponder about the roof,probably summer before I tackle that.
In the south.
May I go now,officer?

Like the other poster said, not an option for someone with no experience. Best of luck with it.

Prob best to leave roof to spring. Actually passed a place a few weeks back, all the timbers were up for the roof. Passed it again today, 4 weeks later, timbers not covered still. Can’t be great for the roof?

L-M · 04-12-2020 9:07pm

Ive gotten back 3 quotes now and to get the house to first fix stage excluding any interior finishes ie. paint tiling etc etc it’s working out at around 104 incl vat a sq foot.

That’s excluding buy the site, any council fees, water, ESB.

Before I started all this I was naive enough to know as much as someone is quoted X per square foot, it’s irrelevant because you don’t know what’s being included.

I priced a self build and for the stress and the risk factor of something going wrong/forgetting something it’s not worth it.

Moggaman · 07-12-2020 12:51am

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Just tendered for my house outside Cork City, 250 sqrm inc PC sums for kitchen flooring etc Block built 200mm cavity A2 rated (high enough spec) €540,000.....add another €35,000 for Engineers Architects, planning fees service connection charges etc etc and you get a move into house with my bags, fully finished cost of around €575,000 :eek::eek: eek! that's even scaring me :P €2300/sqrm

Building a house these days is not cheap, there are so many regs you have to comply with, even getting a mortgage these days is geared towards main builder with them signing off on stages etc. Could I buy a house for cheaper (possibly... probably)but I am lucky I didnt have to pay for the site and the site is 8 minutes to the Wilton Road Roundabout in an A2 zoned area so I wont be losing money in doing it. (famous last words..thank you COVID)

If I was looking for a home way out west where house prices are significantly cheaper I would say you will buy a house now for a lot less than you will build it, but then you wont have the house of your dreams.

Hi Eco Mental, can i ask you what kind of ties did you use for a 200mm cavity and did it affect the ability of the precast (if u had any) to sit on the 100mm inner leaf of the external wall. thanks

ECO_Mental · 07-12-2020 10:28am

Moggaman wrote: »

Hi Eco Mental, can i ask you what kind of ties did you use for a 200mm cavity and did it affect the ability of the precast (if u had any) to sit on the 100mm inner leaf of the external wall. thanks

All the walls that are bearing the precast slabs are block on flat, so basically all my internal walls are block on flat...on the first floor they go back to block on edge.

I think they have to be block on flat to support the precast slabs, block on edge are not strong enough structurally. Regarding wall ties they standard enough stainless steel. From conversations with people previously I think if your cavity goes beyond 200mm you have to start getting specialist wall ties (but don't hold me to that technical piece of advice)

Moggaman · 07-12-2020 3:04pm

ECO_Mental wrote: »

All the walls that are bearing the precast slabs are block on flat, so basically all my internal walls are block on flat...on the first floor they go back to block on edge.

I think they have to be block on flat to support the precast slabs, block on edge are not strong enough structurally. Regarding wall ties they standard enough stainless steel. From conversations with people previously I think if your cavity goes beyond 200mm you have to start getting specialist wall ties (but don't hold me to that technical piece of advice)

Thanks. I thought a block on edge would be sufficient on the external wall. Isn’t a block on flat way OTT?. In the uk they have 140mm blockwork, do we have that herei wonder.???

ECO_Mental · 07-12-2020 3:35pm

Moggaman wrote: »

Thanks. I thought a block on edge would be sufficient on the external wall. Isn’t a block on flat way OTT?. In the uk they have 140mm blockwork, do we have that herei wonder.???

I don't think so but I'm not a structural engineer and if you are doing this then you need to chat to one, maybe there are options to do it that way. But anywhere in my house where I have blockwork that is structural bearing its mostly block on flat (or steel columns..), there are a few places where I have blockwork on edge that is bearing but these are very small loads.

My external wall make up from inside to out is, block on flat 215mm, 200mm cavity and block on edge 100mm

iColdFusion · 05-01-2021 12:29pm

Great thread, thanks to all who have contributed so far even though I have to admit most the figures are soul destroying for anyone hoping to one day build and im assuming Brexit will drive the cost of material up even more in 2021 :eek:

Anyone have any figures for an ICF build or even better ICF vs block for one set of plans to basic compliance with current regs?

Moggaman · 05-01-2021 1:28pm

ECO_Mental wrote: »

I don't think so but I'm not a structural engineer and if you are doing this then you need to chat to one, maybe there are options to do it that way. But anywhere in my house where I have blockwork that is structural bearing its mostly block on flat (or steel columns..), there are a few places where I have blockwork on edge that is bearing but these are very small loads.

My external wall make up from inside to out is, block on flat 215mm, 200mm cavity and block on edge 100mm

A precast company came back to me.. no issue with 150mm precast sitting on 100mm leaf!. a 215mm wall required internally to take back to back slabs alright. A structural screed , ie 75mm concrete with mesh is required on the precast he said to tie it all together .

BryanF · 05-01-2021 1:35pm

Moggaman wrote: »

A precast company came back to me.. no issue with 150mm precast sitting on 100mm leaf!. a 215mm wall required internally to take back to back slabs alright. A structural screed , ie 75mm concrete with mesh is required on the precast he said to tie it all together .

Now you just need the structural engineer to confirm. Unless the precast company is designing the structure, but id doubt that.

ZeroSum76 · 05-01-2021 10:35pm

I am doing a renovation and deep retrofit (to A1) of a 145sqm house built in the 1960's and adding an extension of 55sqm and the total cost is coming in at €350,000. Granted it's a high spec, but it's crazy money. Location Wicklow. South.

mickeyodee · 09-01-2021 7:19pm

ZeroSum76 wrote: »

I am doing a renovation and deep retrofit (to A1) of a 145sqm house built in the 1960's and adding an extension of 55sqm and the total cost is coming in at €350,000. Granted it's a high spec, but it's crazy money. Location Wicklow. South.

Jeez,that's insane money, that's getting a builder I'm guessing and not going with direct labour?

mickeyodee · 09-01-2021 7:21pm

Recently put in for planning in county kilkenny and am looking for feedback on the following, does it sound doable?

*Purchased the 1 acre site for 50k
*Decided to go direct labour
*Am a carpenter myself so will look after and not have to pay labour on kitchen, wardrobes, flooring, skirting and architrave,internal doors,plaster slabbing and labouring for block layers and plasters.
*Father is electrician so obviously will come in very handy
*house is 130sq metres
*Architect is payed for drawings and sending in everything to the council for planning,cost me roughly €1k..very cheap,he's a cousin ðŸ˜‚
*have roughly priced everything else to get the house built and moved in to,coming in at roughly €130k...this doesn't include esb and water connections,BER survey, engineer cost or council contributions which I will look after with savings.this 130k also doesn't include furniture or internal doors(make and fit doors myself)

Thoughts?

hurikane · 09-01-2021 7:29pm

mickeyodee wrote: »

Recently put in for planning in county kilkenny and am looking for feedback on the following, does it sound doable?

*Purchased the 1 acre site for 50k
*Decided to go direct labour
*Am a carpenter myself so will look after and not have to pay labour on kitchen, wardrobes, flooring, skirting and architrave,internal doors,plaster slabbing and labouring for block layers and plasters.
*Father is electrician so obviously will come in very handy
*house is 130sq metres
*Architect is payed for drawings and sending in everything to the council for planning,cost me roughly €1k..very cheap,he's a cousin &#55357;&#56834;
*have roughly priced everything else to get the house built and moved in to,coming in at roughly €130k...this doesn't include esb and water connections,BER survey, engineer cost or council contributions which I will look after with savings.this 130k also doesn't include furniture or internal doors(make and fit doors myself)

Thoughts?

Sounds doable but you’ll be doing a lot yourself. Best of luck.

ZeroSum76 · 09-01-2021 9:20pm

mickeyodee wrote: »

Jeez,that's insane money, that's getting a builder I'm guessing and not going with direct labour?

Yes correct. Getting a builder who is obviously adding his margin in on each of the different elements. To be honest at the stage my wife and I are at and with 2 young kids we needed to push on and get it done ASAP. I realise it's mad money but kinda had no choice. Direct labour not an option realistically for us we just don't have the capability nor the headspace and we want in as soon as possible as we sold our house and are renting.

BryanF · 09-01-2021 10:27pm

mickeyodee wrote: »

Recently put in for planning in county kilkenny and am looking for feedback on the following, does it sound doable?

*Purchased the 1 acre site for 50k
*Decided to go direct labour
*Am a carpenter myself so will look after and not have to pay labour on kitchen, wardrobes, flooring, skirting and architrave,internal doors,plaster slabbing and labouring for block layers and plasters.
*Father is electrician so obviously will come in very handy
*house is 130sq metres
*Architect is payed for drawings and sending in everything to the council for planning,cost me roughly €1k..very cheap,he's a cousin &#55357;&#56834;
*have roughly priced everything else to get the house built and moved in to,coming in at roughly €130k...this doesn't include esb and water connections,BER survey, engineer cost or council contributions which I will look after with savings.this 130k also doesn't include furniture or internal doors(make and fit doors myself)

Thoughts?

One post is enough. No need to copy it to more than one thread. Please have a read of the forum charter before posting again. Thanks

mickeyodee · 09-01-2021 11:30pm

ZeroSum76 wrote: »

Yes correct. Getting a builder who is obviously adding his margin in on each of the different elements. To be honest at the stage my wife and I are at and with 2 young kids we needed to push on and get it done ASAP. I realise it's mad money but kinda had no choice. Direct labour not an option realistically for us we just don't have the capability nor the headspace and we want in as soon as possible as we sold our house and are renting.

Good stuff, if the money is not an issue best of luck with it

mickeyodee · 09-01-2021 11:32pm

hurikane wrote: »

Sounds doable but you’ll be doing a lot yourself. Best of luck.

Tell me about it ðŸ˜‚

driver02 · 11-01-2021 7:31pm

Any one know what is the approx cost per sq foot to build a house?

DulchieLaois · 11-01-2021 7:33pm

driver02 wrote: »

Any one know what is the approx cost per sq foot to build a house?

I was given a rough guide of 130 for er square foot in Laois

driver02 · 11-01-2021 7:41pm

DulchieLaois wrote: »

I was given a rough guide of 130 for er square foot in Laois

Thanks that’s what I needed.

ECO_Mental · 12-01-2021 12:07am

driver02 wrote: »

Thanks that’s what I needed.

If it was only that easy.....:rolleyes: do you want to know was that builders finish, direct labour, the spec of the finish etc etc....

dubrov · 12-01-2021 12:22am

Also, does it include professional/council/utility fees, driveway, landscaping etc.?

Frozen Veg · 18-01-2021 10:30am

Any advice on pvc or aluclad windows for a new build?

ZeroSum76 · 18-01-2021 1:18pm

If you can afford it go with AluClad. It's more expensive but generally better quality.

dubrov · 18-01-2021 2:55pm

Frozen Veg wrote:

Any advice on pvc or aluclad windows for a new build?

Depends on what sort of style you like. Just make sure to go with a reputable window manufacturer with whatever you go for.

Paddydans · 26-01-2021 8:20pm

When a builder is quoting per square foot or square metre, are the measurements taken on the external measurements or the internal measurements?

dubrov · 26-01-2021 8:32pm

Paddydans wrote: »

When a builder is quoting per square foot or square metre, are the measurements taken on the external measurements or the internal measurements?

It could be anything.

Builders will only give an estimate per square foot/metre so it doesn't really matter. They will give an actual price for a specific job.

I'd wager the estimate always comes in lower than the price.

Paddydans · 26-01-2021 8:56pm

dubrov wrote: »

It could be anything.

Builders will only give an estimate per square foot/metre so it doesn't really matter. They will give an actual price for a specific job.

I'd wager the estimate always comes in lower than the price.

Thanks for the reply, I should have said estimate. Designing at the moment. It can mean a difference of 450 square feet in a 2 storey house so makes a big difference. Was wondering in general or from peoples experience what way contractors price

dubrov · 26-01-2021 9:00pm

Paddydans wrote: »

Thanks for the reply, I should have said estimate. Designing at the moment. It can mean a difference of 450 square feet in a 2 storey house so makes a big difference. Was wondering in general or from peoples experience what way contractors price

It's a estimate so could be way off the final price anyway depending on spec. You can buy a kitchen for 4k or 40k.

I know estate agents use (or should use ) the total footprint of the house less the external walls only.

Paddydans · 26-01-2021 9:05pm

dubrov wrote: »

It's a estimate so could be way off the final price anyway depending on spec. You can buy a kitchen for 4k or 40k.

I know estate agents use (or should use ) the total footprint of the house less the external walls only.

I understand that. 450 square feet at 130 euro adds up to a fair bit if your designing to a budget.

Damo810 · 27-01-2021 12:38am

Hi folks!

Just read the thread, I'm now confused more than I was when I started!

In very early stages of looking to build/buy. Farmer so location is key and this is pushing me towards building, have a site close to the yard already that would suit to trying to narrow in on costs. Not looking for anything too fancy in regards to design, would be able to some of the work myself but time is always a limiting factor. Dormer house, 4 bedroom, boxy shape. 180-200M^2. Would be able to dig foundations, lay all the flooring, all the landscaping etc.

Some of the figures here are frightening! Would go down the direct labour route, source all the materials myself. What sort of price bracket should I expect to get to a builders finish? Could fit out the bathroom myself, and a good shot of the kitchen, hang all the doors. Its a box for me to live in. Based in Mayo.

Gumbo · 27-01-2021 9:26am

Damo810 wrote: »

Hi folks!

Just read the thread, I'm now confused more than I was when I started!

In very early stages of looking to build/buy. Farmer so location is key and this is pushing me towards building, have a site close to the yard already that would suit to trying to narrow in on costs. Not looking for anything too fancy in regards to design, would be able to some of the work myself but time is always a limiting factor. Dormer house, 4 bedroom, boxy shape. 180-200M^2. Would be able to dig foundations, lay all the flooring, all the landscaping etc.

Some of the figures here are frightening! Would go down the direct labour route, source all the materials myself. What sort of price bracket should I expect to get to a builders finish? Could fit out the bathroom myself, and a good shot of the kitchen, hang all the doors. Its a box for me to live in. Based in Mayo.

Of course the figures are scary. People looking for 200 Sq. M houses yet say they don’t want anything fancy. The next generation of builders have to sit down and work out if they want a huge house plonked on their site or a smaller design that’s within budget.

km79 · 27-01-2021 9:30am

Starting a new build 1980 sq foot bungalow in Mayo whenever restrictions allow
Hoping to get it fully finished for 300k bar maybe one or two of the 4 bedrooms

If it’s a choice between finishing those or landscaping/patio/tarmac I will prioritize the outside work as I know it will be put on the long finger otherwise!

Gumbo · 27-01-2021 10:27am

km79 wrote: »

If it’s a choice between finishing those or landscaping/patio/tarmac I will prioritize the outside work as I know it will be put on the long finger otherwise!

From a Compliance and Building Regulation point of view the access needs to be in place so you could simply have a 900mm hard standing surface from the driveway.

Bedroom finishing - Once windows are compliant then theres nothing in the regs about painting or skirting etc

Enjoy and best of luck.

Damo810 · 27-01-2021 5:44pm

Gumbo wrote: »

Of course the figures are scary. People looking for 200 Sq. M houses yet say they don’t want anything fancy. The next generation of builders have to sit down and work out if they want a huge house plonked on their site or a smaller design that’s within budget.

Thank you for your useful post, great insight.

Using 200m only to get an idea of cost and what it will take to get it done, final design may be far smaller, but I’d like to know what it will roughly cost and then decide on size and what I can afford.

Gumbo · 27-01-2021 10:09pm

Damo810 wrote: »

Thank you for your useful post, great insight.

Using 200m only to get an idea of cost and what it will take to get it done, final design may be far smaller, but I’d like to know what it will roughly cost and then decide on size and what I can afford.

Between €2.5k and €3.5 per square meter.

One source is the RIAI - https://jearchitecture.ie/building-costs-jearchitecture/

ECO_Mental · 27-01-2021 11:35pm

Damo810 wrote: »

Thank you for your useful post, great insight.

Using 200m only to get an idea of cost and what it will take to get it done, final design may be far smaller, but I’d like to know what it will roughly cost and then decide on size and what I can afford.

Building house just outside Cork city currently at about €2300/sqrm all in including pc sums for kitchen flooring etc turn key and professional fees also

L-M · 28-01-2021 9:19pm

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Building house just outside Cork city currently at about €2300/sqrm all in including pc sums for kitchen flooring etc turn key and professional fees also

Christ, that’s a lot.

I’ll have a 280 sqm house built and ready to move into for less than €1,450 a sq meter excluding the site. And that’s even the tops of it.

Gumbo · 28-01-2021 9:23pm

L-M wrote: »

Christ, that’s a lot.

I’ll have a 280 sqm house built and ready to move into for less than €1,450 a sq meter excluding the site. And that’s even the tops of it.

€405k. Sounds about right. Much more once you include the site purchase.

km79 · 28-01-2021 9:23pm

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Building house just outside Cork city currently at about €2300/sqrm all in including pc sums for kitchen flooring etc turn key and professional fees also

Are you tilng it in gold

That’s crazy money

km79 · 28-01-2021 9:26pm

Gumbo wrote: »

€405k. Sounds about right. Much more once you include the site purchase.

Would bring the cost of building our 2000 square foot bungalow in at 240k. Realistically I’m allowing for 300k and not even having all bedrooms finished ! Would hope to have most outside work done though

L-M · 28-01-2021 10:02pm

I’ve spoken to a few people recently who happen to be building in Cork and the prices and just off the scale

As an example one woman got floors done at 23 a sq meter and she got a price off a similar company but for the exact same floor in Limerick for 13.

~ Building a House in 2020 ~

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