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Dragon Age: Inquisition

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    #32
    mewso
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 8,833 Mod ✭✭✭✭mewso


    I am just playing through Baldur's Gate having grabbed it and it's sequel from GOG and I'm just sorry I missed it first time around. Really don't know why I didn't play it then but this is gaming crack as my good friend amp used to say. I can see how the casual gamer would be put off by it and why Bioware gravitated towards a more "streamlined" mechanic but I would like to hear what people who have played the oldies feel about Bioware today compared to then. I have thoroughly enjoyed their modern games but playing through BG now I think their games have lost a lot. Maybe I was better off for not having being spoilt by their older games before playing Mass Effect and Dragon Age.


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    #33
    sin0city
    Closed Accounts Posts: 698 ✭✭✭sin0city


    I don't know. Baldur's gate is a classic. Been thinking about picking up the enhanced edition but have enough games at the moment. It was a more focused rpg with deeper mechanics alright and the writing's brilliant but I think the writing in ME is brilliant too. I will never forget Kaiden coming on to my male Shepard at the Citadel, cheesy music and all.

    For me it's not neessarily better than the new games, just different. BG2 is even better by the way and KOTOR is quality too. I still have faith in Bioware and am just happy they're still making games. They are one of my favourite developers.


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    #34
    Cillo rs200
    Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭Cillo rs200


    sin0city wrote: »
    Yeah, I'll probably get it because of the world and lore alone. Orlais setting could be good I think and I really like the fact there's talk that you'll get to meet your characters from the other 2 in game. Not so sure about this coop talk though. Most single player game now seems to have to have coop or multiplayer added.

    I'm hoping that the fallout from the mages vs the Chantry (I am very rusty story wise so forgive me if i'm wrong on this!) will be a major plot point in the 3rd. You could have the mages openly rebelling and calling on the Tevinter Imperium for help (Love the idea of the tevinter imperium). The whole Qunari plot line in DA2 was woefully underutilised in my opinion. Especially after that awesome trailer with Hawk fighting that dude and using blood magic to rip him apart. Oh, and that badass sword/staff!
    sin0city wrote: »
    It does seem popular to hate on Bioware and that pisses me off because they make incredible games. In my opinion, leaving the ending aside, ME3 is still one of the best games ever made.

    I agree totally about ME3. But the reason I'm hating on them is because DA and ME were far and away my favorite franchises, and KOTR was up there too. To drop the ball so badly on all three was unforgivable. It's telling that the downturn coincides with joining EA. If the new ME games get good reviews i'll jump back in though.


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    #35
    Icyseanfitz
    Registered Users Posts: 7,409 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    meh bioware are dead to me, ea ruined them


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    #36
    Kirby
    Registered Users Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭Kirby


    Bioware screwed up badly with Dragon age 2 and the whole mass effect 3 ending. It was terribly, terribly written and was completely devoid of any common sense or link to the rest of the three games.

    They could use a PR win to be honest, especially after the semi failure that The old republic turned into. I'm hoping Dragon Age 3 captures what made Origins great and improves upon it.


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    #37
    sin0city
    Closed Accounts Posts: 698 ✭✭✭sin0city


    Cillo rs200 wrote: »
    It's telling that the downturn coincides with joining EA.
    Icyseanfitz wrote: »
    meh bioware are dead to me, ea ruined them

    I really hope this isn't the case but unfortunately it stacks up so far.


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    #38
    Reekwind
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭Reekwind


    Icyseanfitz wrote: »
    meh bioware are dead to me, ea ruined them
    I think the real problem with Bioware is their over-designed games that treat the players as idiotic bystanders. That predates EA


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    #39
    sin0city
    Closed Accounts Posts: 698 ✭✭✭sin0city


    gene-wilder-willy-wonka-meme-765.jpg


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    #40
    Falthyron
    Registered Users Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭Falthyron


    Reekwind wrote: »
    I think the real problem with Bioware is their over-designed games that treat the players as idiotic bystanders. That predates EA

    Eh, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, and Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic say 'Hi!'...

    I hate EA too, but less of the sweeping generalizations please. The whole point of 'modern' games is to attract idiotic bystanders, hence WoW-clones, DA2, and changes made to Mass Effect 3, when compared to ME1.


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    #41
    Reekwind
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭Reekwind


    Falthyron wrote: »
    Eh, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, and Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic say 'Hi!'...
    And since then? Oh hey there Mass Effect!

    There's not a clean break between the early days and today's repetitive formula (how painfully familiar the three area format of NWN has become) but it's not difficult to determine 'early' and 'late' Bioware periods. The excesses of the latter, which I'd date to Mass Effect, do predate the EA period
    I hate EA too, but less of the sweeping generalizations please. The whole point of 'modern' games is to attract idiotic bystanders, hence WoW-clones, DA2, and changes made to Mass Effect 3, when compared to ME1.
    So let's not slate Bioware for dumbing down (for lack of better term) because everyone else is doing the same?


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    #42
    Falthyron
    Registered Users Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭Falthyron


    Reekwind wrote: »
    And since then? Oh hey there Mass Effect!

    There's not a clean break between the early days and today's repetitive formula (how painfully familiar the three area format of NWN has become) but it's not difficult to determine 'early' and 'late' Bioware periods. The excesses of the latter, which I'd date to Mass Effect, do predate the EA period

    So let's not slate Bioware for dumbing down (for lack of better term) because everyone else is doing the same?

    The 'dumbing down' is indicative of the industry, not just BioWare. Yes, they have dumbed down and the break is very clear from ME2 onwards. Dragon Age: Origins not so much, but it's successor is certainly dumbed down. This is a part of the decision making process at EA.

    I can not accept your argument that KotOR is comparable to Dragon Age 2... Leagues apart. And this division can be, and has been attributed to the merging with EA. EA have decided that they need a broader audience, which means catering for the largest denominator. In EA's eyes, you start at the bottom and work from there. NWN, DA:O, Baldur's Gate, are complex games and the likes of ME3 or DA2 are child's play. Anyone could play them.

    This same effect can be seen with the Elder Scrolls series. It is a systemic problem designed to appeal to as many as possible. I have little hope for Dragon Age 3, especially after EA announcing all of their future titles will have micro-transactions.

    BioWare were a far better company for gamers before the EA merger. Now, however, they are a far better money making company (SWTOR excluded :P ) with wide ranging appeal. For me, they will be remembered for the former rather than the latter.


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    #43
    Reekwind
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭Reekwind


    Falthyron wrote: »
    The 'dumbing down' is indicative of the industry, not just BioWare. Yes, they have dumbed down and the break is very clear from ME2 onwards. Dragon Age: Origins not so much, but it's successor is certainly dumbed down. This is a part of the decision making process at EA
    There's two parts here:

    The first is the assumption that it's okay for a company to dumb down its games and streamline them to the point of inanity because some other companies are doing it. If Bioware are making poor design decisions then they should be called out on it, regardless of trends elsewhere in the industry. They're responsible for their content, not that of other companies

    (And it's not as if it's impossible to make complex and worthy games in today's environment. The Witcher and Crusader Kings II, to take two very different examples, show how developers can still make commercially and critically lauded games that combine polish with depth and don't handhold the player every step of the way)

    Secondly is the EA connection. The truth is that Bioware's template game is Mass Effect. That's where the key features of this generation of games (dialogue wheel, reliance on cinematics, ultra-defined areas and associated quests, ridiculous signposting, etc) really took form. The signs were leading there of course but even Jade Empire (very much a hybrid beast) is still very different from what came later. And the development of ME predates the EA acquisition. That cannot be said to be forced on the company from the outside
    I can not accept your argument that KotOR is comparable to Dragon Age 2... Leagues apart. And this division can be, and has been attributed to the merging with EA
    To continue from above, Bioware showed all the signs of over-designing their games long before. Remember this chart? How many similarities can you spot between KOTOR and DA:O?

    But for me, and this is going back a fair bit, what was really damning was an interview in which a Bioware writer defended their archetypal narrative structure (in particular the four area design) on the basis that it was all players could handle. Give people, so the theory went, more than four areas to visit and they'd get lost; give them more than four quests to complete at the same time and they'd lose track; better to give them bright map markers to be sure that they didn't have to navigate. It's taking design to the extremes to reduce the role of player freedom/choice

    And this was before the arrival of EA on the scene


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    #44
    Icyseanfitz
    Registered Users Posts: 7,409 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    i think this sums up bioware these days



    push a button something awesome has to happen :rolleyes:

    pity i used to love bioware, bg1, bg2, kotor, jade empire me1 and dao where all great games imo


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    #45
    gizmo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭gizmo


    I do wonder about people who blame EA for Bioware losing their more purist RPG credentials. Have you not played Jade Empire? :confused:


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    #46
    Cillo rs200
    Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭Cillo rs200


    Icyseanfitz wrote: »
    push a button something awesome has to happen :rolleyes:

    Just like training mice in a lab.

    I know it was already mentioned but I'm just praying to god that CD projekt don't ever sell up. They seem to be the last bastion of challenging game design. The witcher 3 will be up there with the second coming of jesus hopefully. A badass, bearded, demon infused DNA jesus.


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    #47
    Kirby
    Registered Users Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭Kirby


    Cillo rs200 wrote: »
    Just like training mice in a lab.

    I know it was already mentioned but I'm just praying to god that CD projekt don't ever sell up. They seem to be the last bastion of challenging game design. The witcher 3 will be up there with the second coming of jesus hopefully. A badass, bearded, demon infused DNA jesus.

    They are changing direction with the third one though. It's open world. It's much more difficult to pull their type of story off in an open world setting.


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    #48
    Cillo rs200
    Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭Cillo rs200


    That is true, i'm hoping the increased freedom of the next gen consoles will allow them to compensate for that a bit, their prossessing power will dictate a lot. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now anyway, they haven't put a foot wrong yet. And the wild hunt is such a freaking cool idea, I can't wait to play it. If they turn it into a Skyrim clone i will freak.


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    #49
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    mewso wrote: »
    I am just playing through Baldur's Gate having grabbed it and it's sequel from GOG and I'm just sorry I missed it first time around. Really don't know why I didn't play it then but this is gaming crack as my good friend amp used to say. I can see how the casual gamer would be put off by it and why Bioware gravitated towards a more "streamlined" mechanic but I would like to hear what people who have played the oldies feel about Bioware today compared to then. I have thoroughly enjoyed their modern games but playing through BG now I think their games have lost a lot. Maybe I was better off for not having being spoilt by their older games before playing Mass Effect and Dragon Age.

    The early Bioware RPGs were formative for me though I grew up playing the old SSI licenced AD&D RPGs and seriously if you think BG is unforgiving... Back in the 80s and 90s RPG markers for the PC seemed to believe that people were not knuckle dragging morons (I can't speak for console RPGs of this time, I didn't play them but from what I've heard many of them weren't easy to put it mildly). Nowadays since the switch to cross platform games and the attempt to appeal to as broad (read: dumb/lazy) an audience as possible we get streamlining! Dragon Age II in the paraphrased word of one reviewer was changed in ways to make it appeal more to people who didn't connect with Dragon Age Origins while simultaneously alienating those who did connect with DA:O. The still streamlined but more complex than most DA:O was too much for some people apparently so we get the mess that's DA II.

    I've given up on Bioware making anything like BG I or II again. Gaming in most genres has become a thing of mass entertainment. I do still have hopes for the genre though and so do many others apparently: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity?ref=card

    To quote:
    We have wanted to go back to our roots and create an epic PC role-playing game adventure for years. But, it's been almost impossible to get funding through traditional methods for a game like this.


    I've read similar complaints for FPS players about the dumbing down of the genre over the past decade. I don't play FPS games much though so I don't know the truth of it. The only genre that I regularly play that hasn't seen a whole lot of dumbing down is Strategy. Getting into the arguments why that is could take all night and I need sleep so, eh rant over.


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    #50
    Icyseanfitz
    Registered Users Posts: 7,409 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    yup ive big hopes for project eternity and many of the kickstarter games actually, they dont have any big publisher behind them pushing what they think gamers want


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    #51
    Big Knox
    Registered Users Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭Big Knox


    Icyseanfitz wrote: »
    yup ive big hopes for project eternity and many of the kickstarter games actually, they dont have any big publisher behind them pushing what they think gamers want

    Yep it's the only way we are going to see what the old school fans want. Path of Exile is a great example. An ARPG made by a small dev company, funded through donations and supporter packs and it is glorious. The game every true ARPG fan wanted since D2. Even with a true F2P model it's already been a huge success so far and it's still only in open beta so hopefully more success stories can pop up in different genres also.


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    #52
    mewso
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 8,833 Mod ✭✭✭✭mewso


    Yes indeed I've backed Eternity and Wasteland 2 with high hopes for both. As I said I just missed out on BG for some strange reason at the time (I suspect for financial reasons). Played KOTOR a few years back and loved it. So our hopes rest with the Kickstarters. Fair enough. For now I'm going to play through the infinity engine games (Bioware or otherwise) I think since I missed them all - BG1 and 2, Planescape, Icewind Dale 1 and 2. That should keep me going :) Are the Neverwinter Nights games worth playing from a single player pov?


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    #53
    Kiith
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 23,069 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kiith


    mewso wrote: »
    For now I'm going to play through the infinity engine games (Bioware or otherwise) I think since I missed them all - BG1 and 2, Planescape, Icewind Dale 1 and 2. That should keep me going :) Are the Neverwinter Nights games worth playing from a single player pov?

    You lucky bastard :pac:

    Neverwinter Nights is great. Not as good as the BG series, but still enjoyable. NWN2 wasn't as good, but still worth the playthrough. I've never actually played through the Icewind Dale series, as i'd heard it was much more combat focussed, rather then story focussed.

    Planescape and BG1/2 should keep you busy for a couple hundred hours though.


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    #54
    mewso
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 8,833 Mod ✭✭✭✭mewso


    Kiith wrote: »
    I've never actually played through the Icewind Dale series, as i'd heard it was much more combat focussed, rather then story focussed.

    I took a quick look at a lets play of Icewind Dale and it looks to have a lot more combat all right but there seems to be a story in there too. I like the fact that you create your whole party of 6 in the beginning. No more heart-aching over letting someone join and who to drop etc. Might be worth your while heading on over to gog and giving them a go.


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    #55
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Kiith wrote: »
    I've never actually played through the Icewind Dale series, as i'd heard it was much more combat focussed, rather then story focussed.

    It is. They're harder games to care about if that makes sense but if you enjoyed the "squad based wargame" aspect of BG they can be enjoyable enough.


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    #56
    Icyseanfitz
    Registered Users Posts: 7,409 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    Big Knox wrote: »
    Yep it's the only way we are going to see what the old school fans want. Path of Exile is a great example. An ARPG made by a small dev company, funded through donations and supporter packs and it is glorious. The game every true ARPG fan wanted since D2. Even with a true F2P model it's already been a huge success so far and it's still only in open beta so hopefully more success stories can pop up in different genres also.

    holy crap howd i miss that, is it good? is it story based or just pure arpg? either way im now downloading


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    #57
    Varik
    Registered Users Posts: 12,490 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    While Dragon age 2 had a lot of problems as a game, I like what it added to and what it changed in the world.


    And it's more than the welsh elves.


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    #58
    sin0city
    Closed Accounts Posts: 698 ✭✭✭sin0city


    So, as most of you probably saw, a new trailer at E3.
    The 3 is dropped and the game is now called Dragon Age: Inquisition and release date has been put back to autumn 2014, which can only be a good thing.

    From the interview with Bioware GM Aaryn Flynn, looks like you'll play the role of an Inquisitor in a more open world setting, where you'll attempt to deal with a fade rift in the sky with Thedas already in ribbons due to the ongoing conflict between the mages and templars
    (thanks Anders)
    . Thankfully he mentions that the tactical element of Origins is being incorporated and looks like a return for Morrigan and the Qunari.

    I thought the trailer and stills look really nice and it's definitely my most anticipated game of 2014. Looking forward to seeing what the new Bioware IP is too.





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    #59
    Pushtrak
    Registered Users Posts: 4,640 ✭✭✭Pushtrak


    It'll be getting a proper development cycle, so I'm cautiously optimistic. The first held up to a couple of playthroughs, though I kinda went to town on the playthroughs and don't see myself playing it again, tbh. There are a couple of sequences that are a chore to play through like that one
    fade bit
    that is etched in my memory from doing it so many times. And that's saying something.

    (Admittedly, I more remember the crapness of the section than particulars of the section.)


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    #60
    sin0city
    Closed Accounts Posts: 698 ✭✭✭sin0city


    Pushtrak wrote: »
    It'll be getting a proper development cycle, so I'm cautiously optimistic. The first held up to a couple of playthroughs, though I kinda went to town on the playthroughs and don't see myself playing it again, tbh. There are a couple of sequences that are a chore to play through like that one
    fade bit
    that is etched in my memory from doing it so many times. And that's saying something.

    (Admittedly, I more remember the crapness of the section than particulars of the section.)

    Yeah, that section is a bit of a chore alright. I'll be using the save from my original warden that carried on into Dragon Age 2 anyway, whether I play it again before the new one comes out or not. It'll be very cool if your new character gets to meet them in Inquisition.


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    #61
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,153 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Does your Dragon Age 1 save carry over to the second one? I thought because it was a designated character you're playing that you wouldn't be able to do that.

    I know the 2nd one is supposed to suck but I still want to play it to see where the story goes.


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