Scores dead after motorway bridge collapses in Genoa

Jeff Devoy · 14-08-2018 4:22pm #1

30 dead ATM.

Apparently it collapsed after being struck by lightning during thunderstorms.

iamwhoiam · 14-08-2018 4:23pm

A dreadful tragedy and so sad to readv

smelly sock · 14-08-2018 4:26pm

Terrible stuff. Terrorism?

14-08-2018 4:28pm

This is awful. In Italy so much of construction can be quality effected by criminal interests that it would not surprise if bad materials were used.

Also, 30 is not "scores"

TomSweeney · 14-08-2018 4:29pm

awful awful stuff, eyewitnesses said they saw it struck by lightning ?
Christ, how can lightning take down a bridge, my only guess is no lightning conductor so concrete rapidly expanded with the heat ... terrible tragedy RIP to all that died.

TomSweeney · 14-08-2018 4:33pm

smelly sock wrote: »

Terrorism?

No, it's not.

Pherekydes · 14-08-2018 4:34pm

The West link bridge is 42m high. This one was over 90m.

A dreadful tragedy.

TheValeyard · 14-08-2018 4:36pm

Absolutely horrible way to meet your maker. RIP

As other posters above, you'd wonder was it dodgy builder work involved.

Some force of lightning to cause that damage and destruction.

Of all things to ruin your day, lightning causing a bridge collapse is probably not even on anybodys mind. Heard the weather was meant to be shocking.

TomSweeney · 14-08-2018 4:38pm

The lightning could be just a coincedence, more likely it was caused by the extra weight of the water and was about to go anyway, the sh1t will hit the fan after this investigation.

smelly sock · 14-08-2018 4:39pm

TomSweeney wrote: »

The lightning could be just a coincedence, more likely it was caused to the extra weight of the water and was about to go anyway, the **** will hit the fan after this investigation.

There will be accountability over there no doubt. If itt were ireland forget about it.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 14-08-2018 4:40pm

smelly sock wrote: »

There will be accountability over there no doubt. If itt were ireland forget about it.

I doubt it, Italy is far worse than Ireland when it comes to such matters. Corrupt to the core.

jam_mac_jam · 14-08-2018 4:45pm

smelly sock wrote: »

TomSweeney wrote: »

The lightning could be just a coincedence, more likely it was caused to the extra weight of the water and was about to go anyway, the **** will hit the fan after this investigation.

There will be accountability over there no doubt. If itt were ireland forget about it.

Are you joking? Do you think that Ireland is more corrupt then Italy?

jam_mac_jam · 14-08-2018 4:46pm

smelly sock wrote: »

Terrible stuff. Terrorism?

Yeah, it was Muslim lightning.

smelly sock · 14-08-2018 4:47pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Are you joking? Do you think that Ireland is more corrupt then Italy?

For this kind of thing yes.

TheValeyard · 14-08-2018 4:48pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Yeah, it was Muslim lightning.

I prefer Black lightning myself

Knex* · 14-08-2018 4:49pm

Jesus. There was only another major accident on a bridge in Italy last week, near Bologna. (link). Two died and 60 injured, but very lucky more didn't get killed.

Mental for this to happen now just a week later.

jam_mac_jam · 14-08-2018 4:50pm

smelly sock wrote: »

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Are you joking? Do you think that Ireland is more corrupt then Italy?

For this kind of thing yes.

Ok. Well you would be wrong.

seamus · 14-08-2018 4:52pm

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Some force of lightning to cause that damage and destruction.

In terms of one-off releases of energy, lightning ranks fairly high up there.

Probably an unlucky hit for the most part. When lighting hits reinforced concrete, it generally travels through the rebar, and for the most part should be properly grounded. While there may be a temporary weakening effect in the rebar, it should pass without incident.

In some cases, a secondary reverse charge builds up in the bar, and a secondary charge hits, which can have concussive force which potentially causes damage and cracks in the concrete.

If you're unlucky enough to see this occur in a support pillar that's 90m tall (or any concrete supporting it), then the **** could properly hit the fan.

That said, it may be nothing to do with lightning. Apparently there was large regeneration works going on too.

Also worth noting that in this kind of large engineering, they're generally not built with much redundancy. So if one part structure fails, it can trigger a cascade. It's generally assumed that a 90m concrete tower, properly constructed, and continuously inspected, won't just randomly fail.

igCorcaigh · 14-08-2018 4:56pm

Too early to say if infrastructure spending played a role, but just look at these charts.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-45182675?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5b72f71eb3a4a506734c4884%26What%E2%80%99s%20happened%20to%20Italian%20infrastructure%20spending%3F%26&ns_fee=0#post_5b72f71eb3a4a506734c4884

Regardless, this tragedy will be politicised no end.

RIP. Awful event.

murpho999 · 14-08-2018 4:57pm

smelly sock wrote: »

There will be accountability over there no doubt. If itt were ireland forget about it.

Why does everybody think that Ireland is the worst at everything when it's not.

Have you never heard of Italian corruption?

jacksie66 · 14-08-2018 4:58pm

This post has been deleted.

JupiterKid · 14-08-2018 5:00pm

What a horrific tragedy.

Although Italy is indeed very corrupt, the engineering that has gone into most of their Autostrada (motorway) system.is superb, especially given the very difficult terrain in much of the country. There are huge tunnels and bridges crossing deep ravines and cliff hugging motorways on stilts.

It's important to remember Italy was one of the first countries along with Germany to build a motorway system, so the age of the bridge may be a factor in its collapse. In the USA, the interstate freeway system dating mainly from the '60s is deteriorating at an alarming rate in places, with a number of bridge accidents.

TomSweeney · 14-08-2018 5:01pm

jacksie66 wrote: »

Wasn't the bridge built in the 60s?

Looks old allright, could be a big factor here.

igCorcaigh · 14-08-2018 5:03pm

jacksie66 wrote: »

Wasn't the bridge built in the 60s?

The Morandi bridge was built in the 1960s, but restructuring work was done in 2016.

Reuters reports that the 1.2km-long bridge was undergoing further work to shore up its foundation at the time of collapse.

BBC.

Star Bingo · 14-08-2018 5:09pm

I think maybe heavy rain probably caused the river to swell and become rapid which brought it down.

Star Bingo · 14-08-2018 5:11pm

Knex. wrote: »

Jesus. There was only another major accident on a bridge in Italy last week, near Bologna. (link). Two died and 60 injured, but very lucky more didn't get killed.

Mental for this to happen now just a week later.

I saw a video of the main explosion it was huge.

smelly sock · 14-08-2018 5:12pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Ok. Well you would be wrong.

Your opinion.

igCorcaigh · 14-08-2018 5:13pm

Star Bingo wrote: »

I think maybe heavy rain probably caused the river to swell and become rapid which brought it down.

Weather possibly played a factor. If so, then yet another weather related tragedy this summer.

Of course these types of events are multi factorial in their cause.

Spanish Eyes · 14-08-2018 5:17pm

The rail viaduct collapsed near Malahide here also. Lucky no one was killed.

If a train had been going over, well it would have been a similar tragedy.

As for lightning strikes, would there have been conductors on such a high bridge? I dunno.

Very sad anyway for all concerned.

murpho999 · 14-08-2018 5:20pm

jacksie66 wrote: »

Wasn't the bridge built in the 60s?

50 years is not old for a bridge and it was also refitted in 2016 (That's probably where it went wrong).

jam_mac_jam · 14-08-2018 5:33pm

smelly sock wrote: »

Your opinion.

Well obviously I am hardly going to give somebody else's opinion

whiskeyman · 14-08-2018 5:35pm

igCorcaigh wrote: »

The Morandi bridge was built in the 1960s, but restructuring work was done in 2016.

Reuters reports that the 1.2km-long bridge was undergoing further work to shore up its foundation at the time of collapse.

BBC.

I checked the bridge from streetview on Google maps.
Images are taken from October 2017.
Still a lot of scaffolding up.
Doesn't look like a bridge that had much work done, but I'm no engineer.
As others have mentioned, likely that corruption had a part to play...

Ulysses Gaze · 14-08-2018 5:40pm

murpho999 wrote: »

Why does everybody think that Ireland is the worst at everything when it's not.

Have you never heard of Italian corruption?

Ah but sure..Ireland is as bad as a West African dictatorship, don't you know :rolleyes:

BorneTobyWilde · 14-08-2018 5:43pm

Doubt it was Motherfcukingnature. Looked like a bridge on stilts , far to high up and prone to movement that overtime leads to failure.

jam_mac_jam · 14-08-2018 5:47pm

murpho999 wrote: »

Why does everybody think that Ireland is the worst at everything when it's not.

Have you never heard of Italian corruption?

Exactly. Italy has huge issues with corruption including a lot of issues with building. I am not saying that is what happened here. But to say it's worse in Ireland is laughable. We just love putting ourselves down

Stephen15 · 14-08-2018 5:54pm

Wouldn't be so sure if corruption was the issue this happened in the North of Italy in one of the wealthier regions if it had of happened in Sicily, Calabria, Naples or even Rome then the eyebrows would definitely have to be raised but Genoa is in one the most wealthy industrial regions not just in Italy but also in Europe.

Building and maintaining large scale infrastructure in Italy is a huge geographical challenge considering how mountainous the country is lots of large bridges and long tunnels in the side of mountains.

smelly sock · 14-08-2018 5:56pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Exactly. Italy has huge issues with corruption including a lot of issues with building. I am not saying that is what happened here. But to say it's worse in Ireland is laughable. We just love putting ourselves down

Its way off subject. Horrible for these folks regardless of cause.

Just on ireland......the banking collapse, mary boyle, the government complicit in catholic church abuse (Magdalene laundry, Christian Brothers etc) Michael Lowry, Charlie Haughey, FAS, the awarding of the esat license (see above Mike Lowry) George Redmond, Ray bolurke, Liam Lawlor etc.

Garda penalty points, Claire dalys leaked wrongful arrest.

Falsified breath tests.

The cervical cancer scandal.

We are up there with the heavy hitters.

Star Bingo · 14-08-2018 6:13pm

Section of bridge is highlighted here. None of it stood in the water there’s a vague video capture of the collapse too with some lightning activity

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1003201/Genoa-bridge-collapse-map-where-is-Genoa-Italy-news.com

Discodog · 14-08-2018 6:28pm

An engineer warned about it in 2016

http://www.euronews.com/2018/08/14/engineer-warned-in-2016-that-genoa-bridge-would-need-rebuilding

murpho999 · 14-08-2018 7:39pm

whiskeyman wrote: »

I checked the bridge from streetview on Google maps.
Images are taken from October 2017.
Still a lot of scaffolding up.
Doesn't look like a bridge that had much work done, but I'm no engineer.
As others have mentioned, likely that corruption had a part to play...

Why would corruption have a part to play?

Accidents happen everywhere, is it always down to corruption?

I'd say engineering and design is more the fault.

Jeff Devoy · 14-08-2018 7:53pm

Sometimes the Mafia might have something to do with construction of bridges in Italy which would obviously be very shoddy, but I would assume that they would operate more in the south of the country.

This seems a bit like Grenfell Tower in that a recent refurbishment was the cause of a major disaster.

Anesthetize · 14-08-2018 8:53pm

I visited Genoa earlier this year, and was staying and working in Sestri Ponente. It's shocking to see this happen as that bridge was close by.

There's a lot of reliance on bridges and tunnels in Genoa as the terrain is so hilly. The roads would require a huge amount of maintenance to keep them in safe condition. Unfortunately it's clear that they're not getting the investment they require.

bear1 · 14-08-2018 9:30pm

I must say the corruption ****e is some nonsense.
I'm in Italy now and I've been following the news as it's been on all day.
39 dead for now but cars still trapped under the ruins so expect that to go up.
The bridge wasn't designed for the traffic it is taking and the department's involved were warned about it a few years ago.
They were also told that it was not a good idea to have such an important route cross over residential areas but again was ignored.
It seems that as well that due to the route connecting to the country's busiest port it causes a lot of trucks being stuck on the bridge in traffic which causes additional weight that the bridge again wasn't designed to do.
The prosecutor has opened up the investigation as involuntary manslaughter and it will stay that way until all facts are none.
So expect the charges to change.
It's sad this has happened but the warnings were there to stop this.

Jeff Devoy · 14-08-2018 9:32pm

bear1 wrote: »

I must say the corruption ****e is some nonsense.
I'm in Italy now and I've been following the news as it's been on all day.
39 dead for now but cars still trapped under the ruins so expect that to go up.
The bridge wasn't designed for the traffic it is taking and the department's involved were warned about it a few years ago.
They were also told that it was not a good idea to have such an important route cross over residential areas but again was ignored.
It seems that as well that due to the route connecting to the country's busiest port it causes a lot of trucks being stuck on the bridge in traffic which causes additional weight that the bridge again wasn't designed to do.
The prosecutor has opened up the investigation as involuntary manslaughter and it will stay that way until all facts are none.
So expect the charges to change.
It's sad this has happened but the warnings were there to stop this.

Only eight people have been brought out so far and there were more than 40 cars on the bridge at the time of the collapse.

Like I said above, I'm drawing comparisons to Grenfell because in both circumstances the disaster was caused by shoddy renovations.

bear1 · 14-08-2018 9:41pm

Jeff Devoy wrote: »

Only eight people have been brought out so far and there were more than 40 cars on the bridge at the time of the collapse.

Like I said above, I'm drawing comparisons to Grenfell because in both circumstances the disaster was caused by shoddy renovations.

I don't know where you're getting your info from but to clarify my own numbers, 35 cars and 3 trucks were on the bridge from what's being reported.
So far 26 are confirmed dead and 15 in serious condition.
Draw all the conclusions you like but none of us have a clue until it's proven.
Unless of course you're 100% sure you know then I'd suggest you go there and tell them.

Jeff Devoy · 14-08-2018 9:44pm

bear1 wrote: »

I don't know where you're getting your info from but to clarify my own numbers, 35 cars and 3 trucks were on the bridge from what's being reported.
So far 26 are confirmed dead and 15 in serious condition.
Draw all the conclusions you like but none of us have a clue until it's proven.
Unless of course you're 100% sure you know then I'd suggest you go there and tell them.

The amount of deaths and injuries are unclear. I'm just going by what is perceived to be the more likely cause of the collapse of the Ponte Morandi.

bear1 · 14-08-2018 9:47pm

Jeff Devoy wrote: »

The amount of deaths and injuries are unclear. I'm just going by what is perceived to be the more likely cause of the collapse of the Ponte Morandi.

Ive just cleared up the deaths and injuries.
That was as of 1 hour ago.
We don't know what caused the collapsed.

Scores dead after motorway bridge collapses in Genoa

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