Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

irishbucsfan · 11-11-2019 8:21pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Leinster already developed this player and by all accounts the IRFU were integral in ensuring they are now starting for Munster.

If Leinster don't strike lightning again I think a NIQ should be made available. I don't think this is unreasonable, Carbery was a loss not of Leinster's making.

Leinster developed this player by playing him in very few high level games at 10? Unlikely.

Carberry and Byrne are both great young players. It's not clear at all who is the better 10 or who will become the better 10 or even who would be starting at 10 if both were at Leinster today.

irishbucsfan · 11-11-2019 8:21pm

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Absolutely true.

But Sexton was/is quicker than Byrne.....it helps.

Not really. If he ever was, it was marginal.

P.Walnuts · 11-11-2019 8:23pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Not really. If he ever was, it was marginal.

Not going to pretend I have both their running stats on hand, Sexton seems to make a lot more breaks/ground in open play though. IMO of course.

11-11-2019 8:28pm

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Not going to pretend I have both their running stats on hand, Sexton seems to make a lot more breaks/ground in open play though. IMO of course.

I'd say Sexton was easily quicker than Byrne, though at his age now who knows. In his youth certainly, far more of a threat with the ball.

P.Walnuts · 11-11-2019 8:31pm

Wesley Hissing Devil wrote: »

I'd say Sexton was easily quicker than Byrne, though at his age now who knows. In his youth certainly, far more of a threat with the ball.

My thoughts exactly.

irishbucsfan · 11-11-2019 8:39pm

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Not going to pretend I have both their running stats on hand, Sexton seems to make a lot more breaks/ground in open play though. IMO of course.

Ah he definitely does. But it's a smaller part of his game. He might make one of those breaks a game.

What's important, if they're not going to be creating scoring opportunities off their own breaks, is that they're attacking with ball in hand enough to make sure the opposition defense holds until they release the ball. Everything after that is a bonus (unless you're Beauden Barrett).

Sexton makes the choice to run with the ball slightly more often, but it's not a huge amount more. Byrne is also closing that gap. If you look at their last three games for Leinster each, both ran with the ball ~4 times (on average). Sexton made 1 clean break in those 3 games, that's the difference. To be fair Sexton was also probably playing much better opposition and minding himself for a world cup.

I think Byrne has potential to close that gap further. He'll never be a game breaking runner but he never needs to be so long as we can keep surrounding him with them

prawnsambo · 11-11-2019 10:10pm

Robin McBryde has arrived.

Rigor Mortis · 11-11-2019 10:11pm

he always looks like he should have a fag end and a bottle of Old Cellar in his hand

Shefwedfan · 11-11-2019 10:55pm

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Absolutely true.

But Sexton was/is quicker than Byrne.....it helps.

Sexton won the World Player of the Year.

He is the most successful 10 for Ireland and for Leinster and in Irish club rugby

Instead of trying to compare to the younger players coming up and then marking them down......should we not just look at these players and see their good points?

Faugheen · 11-11-2019 11:07pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

Perhaps but he also started a HEC final at 23 and was trusted enough to be the starting flyhalf the following season at 24 regardless of contepomi’s injury accelerating the plan by a few matches.

He was a slow burner but he was also further along at this stage of his career then Byrne. And was, to be blunt, just a better player.

Byrne is grand and all but he isn’t going to become a stellar player at this stage.

The only reason Sexton started that HEC final was because Contepomi was injured.

If Sexton was injured for a HEC final, you can guarantee Leo and Lancaster would have no problem starting Byrne in that game. He’s played in every other round to date and won them all.

irishbucsfan · 11-11-2019 11:18pm

Leinster were in talks with Glen Jackson to come in as a replacement for Contepomi until the very last minute. They were certainly not convinced that Sexton was the answer. Although he was playing extremely well at times coming on for Contepomi (the back line moved so much better imo)

RobbieRuns · 11-11-2019 11:22pm

Every outhalf who plays for Leinster gets to play with a lot more go forward ball behind some amazing forwards. Trust me it is a huge difference. This applies to underage as well. I looked at Carty during the Last game where His pack was going backwards, it is tough. Forwards make 10’s look good.

prawnsambo · 11-11-2019 11:32pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Leinster were in talks with Glen Jackson to come in as a replacement for Contepomi until the very last minute. They were certainly not convinced that Sexton was the answer. Although he was playing extremely well at times coming on for Contepomi (the back line moved so much better imo)

That was what struck me back then. I think it was a match against the Dragons early in 2009 or perhaps late 2008 when he came on and the whole pace of the game went up a notch.

Podge_irl · 11-11-2019 11:33pm

Glen Jackson would have been 35 the season following Contepomi's departure and ended up retiring at the end of it. Being in talks for him to come in (and they were only pretty vague rumours seemingly) wouldn't necessarily indicate anything about their view on Sexton. By the time the semi final rolled around Sexton should have been starting ahead of Contepomi anyway. I believe the plan was still always to have Sexton as the primary flyhalf the following season, regardless of the semi and final in the HEC and how they turned out.

Nonetheless, I stand by the view that despite being a so-called late starter, Sexton had shown a lot more than Byrne has at the same age (which is not exactly unsurprising given the former is our greatest ever 10).

irishbucsfan · 12-11-2019 12:23am

Podge_irl wrote: »

Glen Jackson would have been 35 the season following Contepomi's departure and ended up retiring at the end of it. Being in talks for him to come in (and they were only pretty vague rumours seemingly) wouldn't necessarily indicate anything about their view on Sexton. By the time the semi final rolled around Sexton should have been starting ahead of Contepomi anyway. I believe the plan was still always to have Sexton as the primary flyhalf the following season, regardless of the semi and final in the HEC and how they turned out.

Nonetheless, I stand by the view that despite being a so-called late starter, Sexton had shown a lot more than Byrne has at the same age (which is not exactly unsurprising given the former is our greatest ever 10).

Sexton had shown more, certainly. But he had also been dropped down to play AIL due to his form falling off a cliff. He was far from the heir apparent until very late in that season. The plan was certainly not for him to inherit when they were sending him back to Mary's.

P.Walnuts · 12-11-2019 12:26am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Sexton won the World Player of the Year.

He is the most successful 10 for Ireland and for Leinster and in Irish club rugby

Instead of trying to compare to the younger players coming up and then marking them down......should we not just look at these players and see their good points?

I wasn't the one that compared him to Sexton initially, it was another poster. I was responding to the comparison.

Dubinusa · 12-11-2019 4:35am

I just watched the match from Friday. Leinster were superb. The defense and tackling was superb. Especially Will Connors, who looks in fine form.
I thought motm was Josh Murphy. He was great. The back row was astounding.
Ross Byrne was very, very good. He is under rated by many here on the boards. Luke was great too. He just ups the tempo so well and is fearless.
Once again J.O.B impressed me. He's developing very nicely, as is Keenan.
Leinster were so dominant in the 1st half. It really is stunning how much depth there is. Tomane was very, very good.
This weeks selection will be interesting. Obviously, Ringrose and VDF will most likely come back into the squad. Will Leo rest Furlong and James Ryan?
Should be a heavy aspirin week for Leo!

Quin_Dub · 12-11-2019 11:02am

RobbieRuns wrote: »

Every outhalf who plays for Leinster gets to play with a lot more go forward ball behind some amazing forwards. Trust me it is a huge difference. This applies to underage as well. I looked at Carty during the Last game where His pack was going backwards, it is tough. Forwards make 10’s look good.

Absolutely - The best way to tell if your half-backs are really any good is to put them behind a pack getting beaten.

That's when you get a true measure of their decision making etc.

Lots of players can look great behind a dominant pack - Lima Sopoaga as a case in point.

Looked the biz in NZ behind a great pack , beyond mediocre though when behind a very average Wasps pack.

12-11-2019 3:00pm

My guestimation of the team for the weekend. Have gone with the 'get best players on the pitch' approach to selection:

Healy
Kelleher
Furlong
Ryan
Toner
Fardy
VDF
Ruddock
JGP
Sexton
Lowe
Henshaw (Tomane if Henshaw injured)
Ringrose
Kearney D
Larmour

I reckon Larmour is going to be selected as first choice 15 for the remainder of the season.

I think Cronin is still injured.

JGP is playing great stuff atm.

Dave Kearney probably the most overall impressive of the remaining back three options.

Henry Ford III · 12-11-2019 3:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

My guestimation of the team for the weekend. Have gone with the 'get best players on the pitch' approach to selection:

Healy
Kelleher
Furlong
Ryan
Toner
Fardy
VDF
Ruddock
JGP
Sexton
Lowe
Henshaw (Tomane if Henshaw injured)
Ringrose
Kearney D
Larmour

I reckon Larmour is going to be selected as first choice 15 for the remainder of the season.

I think Cronin is still injured.

JGP is playing great stuff atm.

Dave Kearney probably the most overall impressive of the remaining back three options.

Has Super Rob been put out to grass? His selection in the RWC couldn't have been the best.

Shefwedfan · 12-11-2019 4:22pm

I am not sure if JGP will get the start, McGrath got a run last week and that looks like it was to give him some time to get up to speed. I think you might see him start.....he needs to perform as JGP is playing well

salmocab · 12-11-2019 4:41pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

My guestimation of the team for the weekend. Have gone with the 'get best players on the pitch' approach to selection:

Healy
Kelleher
Furlong
Ryan
Toner
Fardy
VDF
Ruddock
JGP
Sexton
Lowe
Henshaw (Tomane if Henshaw injured)
Ringrose
Kearney D
Larmour

I reckon Larmour is going to be selected as first choice 15 for the remainder of the season.

I think Cronin is still injured.

JGP is playing great stuff atm.

Dave Kearney probably the most overall impressive of the remaining back three options.

It’s a great opportunity to play someone less experienced in the back row I think, I think one of Doris, Deegan or even Penny might get a start, probably Doris.

FrannoFan · 12-11-2019 4:43pm

Deleted User wrote: »

My guestimation of the team for the weekend. Have gone with the 'get best players on the pitch' approach to selection:

Healy
Kelleher
Furlong
Ryan
Toner
Fardy
VDF
Ruddock
JGP
Sexton
Lowe
Henshaw (Tomane if Henshaw injured)
Ringrose
Kearney D
Larmour

I reckon Larmour is going to be selected as first choice 15 for the remainder of the season.

I think Cronin is still injured.

JGP is playing great stuff atm.

Dave Kearney probably the most overall impressive of the remaining back three options.

i could see ryan furlong and sexton on bench
focus on the away game the week after

it might be europe but it is Benneton who have lost 4 from 6 this season so far

FrannoFan · 12-11-2019 4:44pm

salmocab wrote: »

It’s a great opportunity to play someone less experienced in the back row I think, I think one of Doris, Deegan or even Penny might get a start, probably Doris.

agree
i reckon dorris at 8 with vdf and ruddock

12-11-2019 5:25pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I am not sure if JGP will get the start, McGrath got a run last week and that looks like it was to give him some time to get up to speed. I think you might see him start.....he needs to perform as JGP is playing well

Thought his passing was rubbish. Lots of high ones. Was I seeing things?

12-11-2019 5:41pm

Gianna Witty Bassinet wrote: »

Thought his passing was rubbish. Lots of high ones. Was I seeing things?

Nah his passing was solid. Leinster were playing very expansive rugby so some of his longer efforts were high.

For Porters try his pass to Tomane was high but his inside dink to Kelleher was pure filth.

I just think Gibson Park is in top form and our phase play seems to have a bit more zip with him at 9.

12-11-2019 5:47pm

Gianna Witty Bassinet wrote: »

Thought his passing was rubbish. Lots of high ones. Was I seeing things?

I didn't think his passing was great either, being high isn't fatal but he kept making the receiver check their run I thought.

kingofthekong · 13-11-2019 12:14pm

Wesley Hissing Devil wrote: »

I didn't think his passing was great either, being high isn't fatal but he kept making the receiver check their run I thought.

Yep always underwhelmed with mCgraths passing..always thought marmions pass allowed the ball carrier to run on to it more

I prefer JGP he picks from the base which means the defensive line cant just shoot up and must hols their ground similar to Ben Youngs

Him picking from the base also adds momentum because hes moving forward , speeds up ruck ball and allows our outside ball carriers to hit the line running

Its why our attack can look static sometimes when Mcgraths playing

Serbian · 13-11-2019 2:20pm

Scott Penny, Ryan Baird, Cian Kelleher, Bryan Byrne and Ciaran Frawley added to the Champions Cup squad, replacing
Dan Leavy, Jack Conan, Fergus McFadden, Vakh Abdaladze and Barry Daly.

Ben Healy added to Munster's squad, which probably puts paid to the Harry Byrne rumours.

Henry Ford III · 13-11-2019 2:38pm

Serbian wrote: »

...Ben Healy added to Munster's squad, which probably puts paid to the Harry Byrne rumours.

Cummisky scored twice there. Annoying Leinster fans, and getting a lot of clicks.

He's a fool.

Rigor Mortis · 13-11-2019 3:34pm

Darce makes a similar point today. Sending one of Frawley or Harry out on a season long loan to another Pro 14 team makes a lot of sense.

salmocab · 13-11-2019 3:47pm

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

Darce makes a similar point today. Sending one of Frawley or Harry out on a season long loan to another Pro 14 team makes a lot of sense.

Didn’t both Roux and Cooney leave on loan? Not sure Leinster would be happy to loan out a quality youngster if they might not get them back. I think Nucifora should be setting up a system for loan players and the parents club getting some benefit/assurances over what happens after.

Former Former · 13-11-2019 3:49pm

Serbian wrote: »

Ben Healy added to Munster's squad, which probably puts paid to the Harry Byrne rumours.

There was no such rumour

Shefwedfan · 13-11-2019 3:51pm

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

Darce makes a similar point today. Sending one of Frawley or Harry out on a season long loan to another Pro 14 team makes a lot of sense.

Unless they send him down to SA I wouldn't bother with pro14

Send him to Oz or NZ or some other country to get some different experience

PMC83 · 13-11-2019 3:55pm

Former Former wrote: »

There was no such rumour

But there was though!

Former Former · 13-11-2019 3:58pm

PMC83 wrote: »

But there was though!

There wasn't, there was the musings of a journalist about ways Munster might fill a gap. There was no suggestion that anyone was actually pursuing it but it was taken up wrong on boards.

Squidgy Black · 13-11-2019 4:35pm

salmocab wrote: »

Didn’t both Roux and Cooney leave on loan? Not sure Leinster would be happy to loan out a quality youngster if they might not get them back. I think Nucifora should be setting up a system for loan players and the parents club getting some benefit/assurances over what happens after.

Jeremy Loughman as well, went down to Munster on a short term loan spell and signed a contract extension.

I can't think of any examples of players going on loan and actually returning to their home province at the end of their original loan period.

salmocab · 13-11-2019 4:40pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Jeremy Loughman as well, went down to Munster on a short term loan spell and signed a contract extension.

I can't think of any examples of players going on loan and actually returning to their home province at the end of their original loan period.

I’ve no issue with any of them really, the players all benefited but I’d say the clubs themselves aren’t likely to see it as a chance for someone to develop a bit then come back better.

13-11-2019 4:45pm

Former Former wrote: »

but it was taken up wrong on boards.

It was discussed as speculation. Few if any took it as anything more so not sure what your trying to suggest here.

That said, sometimes journalists post speculation because they've heard something that goes a bit further than speculation, some times it's guess work. Wouldn't be the first time a move like that has happened.

Serbian · 13-11-2019 6:33pm

Former Former wrote: »

There wasn't, there was the musings of a journalist about ways Munster might fill a gap. There was no suggestion that anyone was actually pursuing it but it was taken up wrong on boards.

By the literal definition of rumour, it was a rumour.

I think blaming Boards (and various other places) of misinterpreting this is nonsense. Cummiskey wasn't musing, he knew what he was up to and was after the clickbait / outraged reactions.

13-11-2019 7:07pm

Serbian wrote: »

By the literal definition of rumour, it was a rumour.

I think blaming Boards (and various other places) of misinterpreting this is nonsense. Cummiskey wasn't musing, he knew what he was up to and was after the clickbait / outraged reactions.

Was there outrage?

molloyjh · 13-11-2019 7:54pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Was there outrage?

Not here maybe, but elsewhere yes. It is the internet after all.

Dubinusa · 14-11-2019 12:05am

Anyone else impressed with Connors? I think he's really been good. With VDF, Penny and Connors we're loaded.
Connors tackling technique is awesome. In around the ankles! I'm so happy he didn't head west to Connacht!

kingofthekong · 14-11-2019 12:41pm

Yep Connors has been exceptional, love seeing this talent at Leinster but the thing that annoys me is all of these guys should be in Ireland contention in the coming years: VDF, Penny, Leavy, Connors

....But because they are all in leinster less talented alternatives in other provinces who are getting more gametime due to less competition for spaces may get in ahead of some of them for ireland spots..

It'll be an interesting dilema for Farrell

salmocab · 14-11-2019 12:43pm

kingofthekong wrote: »

Yep Connors has been exceptional, love seeing this talent at Leinster but the thing that annoys me is all of these guys should be in Ireland contention in the coming years: VDF, Penny, Leavy, Connors

....But because they are all in leinster less talented alternatives in other provinces who are getting more gametime due to less competition for spaces may get in ahead of some of them for ireland spots..

It'll be an interesting dilema for Farrell

Vdf Leavy and SOB all play the same position for Leinster and Ireland and seemed to all get a look in.

Clegg · 14-11-2019 12:53pm

The sad thing is that playing openside flanker is such a physically demanding job, we most likely will never see a scenario where all 7's are for at the same time.

VDF was first choice openside for Ireland in 2018, was injured in the first 6 Nations game and missed the rest of the season. Leavy missed most of last season and will miss all of this one too. Connors missed all of last season as well. SOB spent the best part of 5 years broken too.

aloooof · 14-11-2019 12:57pm

kingofthekong wrote: »

Yep Connors has been exceptional, love seeing this talent at Leinster but the thing that annoys me is all of these guys should be in Ireland contention in the coming years: VDF, Penny, Leavy, Connors

Leavy and VdF have been, and will continue to be in contention when they are not injured, don't really understand why you've included them. They both have more caps for Ireland than Penny and Connors do for Leinster.

kingofthekong · 14-11-2019 4:32pm

aloooof wrote: »

Leavy and VdF have been, and will continue to be in contention when they are not injured, don't really understand why you've included them. They both have more caps for Ireland than Penny and Connors do for Leinster.

Your missing the point, now there are four competing for the spot as opposed to 2

Faugheen · 14-11-2019 4:52pm

VDF is still undisputed first choice. Connors, Penny are great but VDF is an athletic freak.

salmocab · 14-11-2019 4:53pm

kingofthekong wrote: »

Your missing the point, now there are four competing for the spot as opposed to 2

There were 3 internationals for the last few years and penny and Connors still got a bit of game time at 7

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

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