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The bleeding hearts on Prime Time.

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  • 04-11-2014 11:22pm
    #1
    Lapin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭


    An excellent suggestion from a law student in the audience that repeat offenders should be tagged so that the Gardaí would know where they are at all times was dismissed by a member of the panel (solicitor James MacGuill) as drachonian, and scoffed that it was the American way of doing things.

    Bizzarly, he also said that there is no need to tag scumbags as they get longer sentences everytime they reoffend in any case. This is plainly bollox. We have all seen cases where some little shít with dozens of previous conviction walks out of court giving two fingers to the rest of us.

    Why are the judges in this country so soft on criminals?

    Tag the fuckers. They'll still have their liberty and if they're not up to no good, they have nothing to worry about.
    Tagged:


«1345

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    #2
    Cantremember
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    Who was on the panel?


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    #3
    Sh1tbag OToole
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,973 ✭✭✭Sh1tbag OToole


    Well it is fairly draconian and indeed the American way of doing things


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    #4
    Lapin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭Lapin


    Cantremember wrote: »
    Who was on the panel?

    Former Judge Barry White.
    Solicitor James MacGuill.
    John Whelan of Advocates for victims of homocide.
    Lorainne Higgins, senator and habitual runner up in any election she has ever ran in.


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    #5
    Lapin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭Lapin


    Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »
    Well it is fairly draconian and indeed the American way of doing things

    So what.


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    #6
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Lapin wrote: »
    Why are the judges in this country so soft on criminals?.

    Any reasonable statistics to suggest this is the case? And by reasonable statistics, I don't mean a collection of your favourite Irish Daily Mail articles. Some international comparisons would be good.


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    #7
    Earl Turner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 151 ✭✭Earl Turner


    Easy for the elites to bleat on about human rights. Put them in an estate terrorized by thugs and watch them change their tune.


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    #8
    Duckworth_Luas
    Registered Users Posts: 5,733 ✭✭✭Duckworth_Luas


    Lapin wrote: »
    Former Judge Barry White
    The Walrus of Law?


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    #9
    Dempsey
    Registered Users Posts: 20,553 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    Lapin wrote: »
    So what.

    The American way doesn't work


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    #10
    mikeyjames9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 700 ✭✭✭mikeyjames9


    what use are tags apart from costing money to set-up and operate?


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    #11
    Wompa1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,165 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    Dempsey wrote: »
    The American way doesn't work

    It's not the American system though....it's one part but not all of it. It could apply to the Irish system more effectively...who knows..


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    #12
    Benicetomonty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,574 ✭✭✭Benicetomonty


    The guy who ran over that boy had 40 previous convictions, most of which involved him entering a shop armed with a syringe and threatening to infect employees with HIV before making off with stolen moneys.

    When he was sentenced, the judge said that his early guilty plea and his "remorse" had to be taken into account, despite the fact that he fled the scene and that he went on a crime spree the week after the accident.

    Those two talking about rehabilitation were hard to listen to. There comes a point where some people aren't worth the effort. If 39 slaps on the wrist and (presumably) several cracks at rehab didn't do it, nothing will. That boy would still be alive if there was a reasonable minimum sentence for continuous abuse of parole and contempt for the law.

    An extra 18 months on to an 8 year sentence is a joke. The man is a danger to society, as are far too many others like him who receive pathetic sentences in the face of an incredible number of previous convictions.


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    #13
    boombang
    Registered Users Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭boombang


    I think the lawyers have an inventive to keep criminals offending as they need crime to keep them employed.

    Tags might be expensive, but probably less costly than custodial sentences right?

    One good use for tags I see would be to tell businesses that a serial shoplifter just walked in the store. Same could go for house breakers or goons in feuds. Tags would probably be cheaper than having the guards' helicopter follow you around.


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    #14
    SparkySpitfire
    Registered Users Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭SparkySpitfire


    Benicetomonty wrote: »
    The guy who ran over that boy had 40 previous convictions, most of which involved him entering a shop armed with a syringe and threatening to infect employees with HIV before making off with stolen moneys.

    When he was sentenced, the judge said that his early guilty plea and his "remorse" had to be taken into account, despite the fact that he fled the scene and that he went on a crime spree the week after the accident.

    Those two talking about rehabilitation were hard to listen to. There comes a point where some people aren't worth the effort. If 39 slaps on the wrist and (presumably) several cracks at rehab didn't do it, nothing will. That boy would still be alive if there was a reasonable minimum sentence for continuous abuse of parole and contempt for the law.

    An extra 18 months on to an 8 year sentence is a joke. The man is a danger to society, as are far too many others like him who receive pathetic sentences in the face of an incredible number of previous convictions.

    Simply put, a little boy's right to life far outweighs a scumbag's right to liberty. Obviously the judges didn't see it this way.

    This actually makes me sick.


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    #15
    Cantremember
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    Dempsey wrote: »
    The American way doesn't work

    The Irish way does. It is a model of how to protect law abiding citizens. I hope that all those who admire its effectiveness have the opportunity to experience at first hand the attentions of those who have graduated repeatedly from it.


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    #16
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    Lapin wrote: »
    An excellent suggestion from a law student in the audience that repeat offenders should be tagged so that the Gardaí would know where they are at all times was dismissed by a member of the panel (solicitor James MacGuill) as drachonian, and scoffed that it was the American way of doing things.

    Bizzarly, he also said that there is no need to tag scumbags as they get longer sentences everytime they reoffend in any case. This is plainly bollox. We have all seen cases where some little shít with dozens of previous conviction walks out of court giving two fingers to the rest of us.

    Why are the judges in this country so soft on criminals?

    Tag the fuckers. They'll still have their liberty and if they're not up to no good, they have nothing to worry about.

    What do they do in the most crime-free places on Earth? Like Norway?

    I'd like some of their wisdom.

    Do they tag/beat/castrate/execute people or does it just not seem to happen there?

    And why?


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    #17
    mikeyjames9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 700 ✭✭✭mikeyjames9


    Egginacup wrote: »
    What do they do in the most crime-free places on Earth? Like Norway?

    I'd like some of their wisdom.

    Do they tag/beat/castrate/execute people or does it just not seem to happen there?

    And why?

    rehabilitation I imagine

    not the revolving door we have here


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    #18
    dublinman1990
    Registered Users Posts: 8,301 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    I didn't hear the whole of this story but I do think that a scumbag with 40 previous convictions should not have the same rights as everybody else to endanger other people's lives while out on the public street.

    A severe jail sentence is entirely appropriate for this thug who killed a defenseless young boy for no apparent reason by doing something that can bring huge damage to the life of one family forever.


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    #19
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    f**k tags.... repeat offenders, out on TR, suspended sentence etc, all given big highviz jackets that announces to the world that they're a crim.

    GPS tag too, so if they're within a two feet of a fellow high viz scumbag for any amount of time then they get sent back down


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    #20
    Highflyer13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 954 ✭✭✭Highflyer13


    A soft legal system suits solicitors as they get plenty of business from repeat offenders.


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    #21
    irishgeo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,369 ✭✭✭irishgeo


    3 strikes and your out rule. very simple none of this 47 previous convictions crap then.


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    #22
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    How is it draconian? Knowing where someone is vs locking them away. Yeah, we should just hug them better.


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    #23
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Egginacup wrote: »
    What do they do in the most crime-free places on Earth? Like Norway?

    They cook the books.

    It's very nearly impossible to commit crime in Norway!


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    #24
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,469 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »
    Well it is fairly draconian and indeed the American way of doing things

    draconian is having the public suffer time and time again at the hands of these scumbags and having nothing done about it. the whole justice system industry in this country is setup to let offenders off as much as possible from the lowly street scrote right up to politicians and dodgy business men.


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    #25
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Tagging can be fairly effective if correctly carried out.
    http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/aug/29/g4s-staff-sacked-tagging-false-leg
    G4S staff sacked for tagging offender's false leg

    Man tricked security firm employees by wrapping prosthetic limb in bandage, allowing him to remove it and flout court curfew


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    #26
    Johngoose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭Johngoose


    If the police were allowed beat the living daylights out of genuine scum,there wouldn't be a need for jail sentences.Put them in hospital if you catch them breaking into houses etc. This sh1t of being remorseful and pleading guilty early,equating to lesser sentences is pitiful.Also the usual: "I had a problem with the drink and the drugs at the time your honour..." is expected to have any onlooker feeling sorry for the scumbag.


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    #27
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Diego Simeone wrote: »
    Any reasonable statistics to suggest this is the case? And by reasonable statistics, I don't mean a collection of your favourite Irish Daily Mail articles. Some international comparisons would be good.

    Let's try use a bit of common sense instead of worthless head banging statistics.


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    #28
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Sigh I really wish the people proposing this draconian American cop procedural inspired punishments and sentencing actually footed the bill for that crap. Prisons are incredibly expensive! Violent punishments don't seem to deter crime either. All this lust for revenge and justice. Even if the culprit does die in horrific circumstances e.g a horrible form of cancer, you still don't get justice.
    Any policies we enact should be targeted primarily at prevention over punishment and support for victims and theirs families. Create a culture where crime isn't a desirable factor not one where it's rampant and a ridiculously high proportion of society are either committing violent crimes or in prison. When it comes to how penal systems and sentencing should operate the United State is the outlier. Not Ireland.


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    #29
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Turtwig wrote: »
    Sigh I really wish the people proposing this draconian American cop procedural inspired punishments and sentencing actually footed the bill for that crap. Prisons are incredibly expensive! Violent punishments don't seem to deter crime either. All this lust for revenge and justice. Even if the culprit does die in horrific circumstances e.g a horrible form of cancer, you still don't get justice.
    Any policies we enact should be targeted primarily at prevention over punishment and support for victims and theirs families. Create a culture where crime isn't a desirable factor not one where it's rampant and a ridiculously high proportion of society are either committing violent crimes or in prison. When it comes to how penal systems and sentencing should operate the United State is the outlier. Not Ireland.

    How is putting a tag on a guy with 50 convictions, for a probationary period following his release, draconian? Seriously, how is this a bad idea? What are the downfalls?


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    #30
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    We need a system where the sentence for any conviction has a penalty based on number of previous convictions added. At a minimum every sentence should have a mandatory 1 month per previous conviction added.

    We also need to bring in the death penalty as an option to those convicted of crimes to save on prison costs. As in a convict can opt into the death penalty instead of a prison sentence.


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    #31
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    The lack of political motivation on crime is something that really baffles me. During the last election there was absolutly no mention of crime from any of the parties. Crime is something that effects everybody. Whether it be the middle classes who are the most targeted in terms of burgalries and car theft or the people who live in council estates that have to live with thugs roaming their streets or hanging on corners.

    Cracking down on crime isnt even a divisive thing amongst voters. You dont lose votes by saying we are going to crack down on the soft justice system. Yet it is not even remotely on the political agenda of anybody.

    I dont give a toss about statistics, I want to see real justice. I want to see repeat offenders going to prison for a long time and I will gladly pay the expense of putting them up in prison.


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