Leinster v Ulster Pro14 Final Sept 12th 7.35pm Build Up

Zzippy · 07-09-2020 2:57pm

Current awec mood:

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Buer · 07-09-2020 3:25pm

Clegg wrote: »

Leinster could go with a 6/2 split if they chose Frawley as their number 22. Can play 10, 12 and 15 at a pinch. Could cover for injury in a lot of different positions. Although I'm not sure how well that would play with Ross Byrne.

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I honestly think there's a slight chance that Ross Byrne might start this one although I'd say it's probably 70/30 in favour of Sexton. I can see there being at least one surprise. Possibly Baird back into the starting side although that wouldn't be a particular surprise.

If I was looking for a left field selection, I'd say Ed Byrne to start.

hirondelle · 07-09-2020 3:28pm

Buer wrote: »

It will be interesting to see what changes Ulster make. They were a far better side in the second half than they were for the first 40 minutes and that was in no small part owing to the changes they made. I imagine Moore and McGrath will come straight back in but the changes thereafter will be more interesting.

Will they throw caution to the wind and drop Cooney as form demands? AB looked a bit sluggish compared to the past but was still a clear upgrade.

Jordi Murphy made 13 tackles, missing none in the opening half but still looked underpowered. He carried 5 times for no ground made which isn't surprising at all. Reidy is a more effective and robust carrier. Murphy has more big game experience than most of the Ulster team combined though so I can see it being hard for them to pass him over for this.

Sam Carter is bringing nothing to the table. I don't see the point in persisting with him. The difference to the Ulster maul when Treadwell, Moore and McGrath were on was huge.

I don't think there's much Ulster can do outside of 9 aside from potentially moving Stockdale to the wing and he looked very comfortable at 15 against Leinster a fortnight ago so might remain there.

For me Carter has really stood out as in terms of his lack of impact for Ulster- I think he gave away the first two penalties against Leinster, and that was his most notable contribution.

Paul Smeenus · 07-09-2020 3:59pm

Buer wrote: »

It will be interesting to see what changes Ulster make. They were a far better side in the second half than they were for the first 40 minutes and that was in no small part owing to the changes they made. I imagine Moore and McGrath will come straight back in but the changes thereafter will be more interesting.

Will they throw caution to the wind and drop Cooney as form demands? AB looked a bit sluggish compared to the past but was still a clear upgrade.

Jordi Murphy made 13 tackles, missing none in the opening half but still looked underpowered. He carried 5 times for no ground made which isn't surprising at all. Reidy is a more effective and robust carrier. Murphy has more big game experience than most of the Ulster team combined though so I can see it being hard for them to pass him over for this.

Sam Carter is bringing nothing to the table. I don't see the point in persisting with him. The difference to the Ulster maul when Treadwell, Moore and McGrath were on was huge.

I don't think there's much Ulster can do outside of 9 aside from potentially moving Stockdale to the wing and he looked very comfortable at 15 against Leinster a fortnight ago so might remain there.

For me Reidy and Treadwell start, and hopefully that means a lot of experience and calm off the bench when Murphy and Carter come on (and a warning to Carter that, if he doesn't sort it out, he could be fourth choice when Hendo comes back).

Cooney starts, with the understanding that McFarland won't hesitate to bin him if he doesn't get back to his old self.

My concern is, I don't want a toothless, "making up the numbers" bench. Maybe a bit of mix'n'match - O'Sullivan and Moore to start? Ludik has been a great, battling servant, but he's 30-odd and in his last season. But who's on the bench, if we start with Lyttle-Lowry-Stockdale? Gilroy? Faddes? Meh.

awec · 07-09-2020 4:14pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

For me Reidy and Treadwell start, and hopefully that means a lot of experience and calm off the bench when Murphy and Carter come on (and a warning to Carter that, if he doesn't sort it out, he could be fourth choice when Hendo comes back).

Cooney starts, with the understanding that McFarland won't hesitate to bin him if he doesn't get back to his old self.

My concern is, I don't want a toothless, "making up the numbers" bench. Maybe a bit of mix'n'match - O'Sullivan and Moore to start? Ludik has been a great, battling servant, but he's 30-odd and in his last season. But who's on the bench, if we start with Lyttle-Lowry-Stockdale? Gilroy? Faddes? Meh.

I'd be concerned with Lowry at full back tbh. He's just too small.

Fine when we have the ball, worrying when we don't.

Superfoods · 07-09-2020 4:19pm

awec wrote: »

I'd be concerned with Lowry at full back tbh. He's just too small.

Fine when we have the ball, worrying when we don't.

Stick him on, sure what could go wrong :P

Buer · 07-09-2020 4:24pm

awec wrote: »

I'd be concerned with Lowry at full back tbh. He's just too small.

Fine when we have the ball, worrying when we don't.

The Lyttle/Lowry combination for the last Edinburgh try was the stuff of nightmares. James Lowe would love it.

07-09-2020 5:26pm

Saw a rumoured team on PR, it's full strength incl. Ryan and VdF, except with Byrne and JGP instead of Sexton and McGrath. I think JGP should be starting from here out tbh.

Edit - also just came across this tweet which is the same team: https://twitter.com/LimitedBall/status/1303000196004147200?s=20

bilston · 07-09-2020 6:11pm

I hope Byrne does start instead of Sexton for all sorts of reasons.

If nothing else it will confirm in the minds of the Ulster squad how little Leinater think of them.

stephen_n · 07-09-2020 6:17pm

awec wrote: »

I'd be concerned with Lowry at full back tbh. He's just too small.

Fine when we have the ball, worrying when we don't.

I thought his defending was an improvement on Stockdale’s on Saturday night.

Clegg · 07-09-2020 6:22pm

bilston wrote: »

I hope Byrne does start instead of Sexton for all sorts of reasons.

If nothing else it will confirm in the minds of the Ulster squad how little Leinater think of them.

Low quality bait. He'd start for every other province.

awec · 07-09-2020 6:23pm

stephen_n wrote: »

I thought his defending was an improvement on Stockdale’s on Saturday night.

Stockdale is not a great defender either but at least he has height and mass. I think Lowry's only real chance of a successful pro career is at 10, because he can be hidden somewhat in defence.

You can't hide your fullback though.

Paul Smeenus · 07-09-2020 6:30pm

Was perfectly good against Leinster in the QF last season.

bilston · 07-09-2020 6:34pm

Lowry is a good defender...for his size...its a hard one...he is such a talented player...but size will probably always be held against him.

I'm not sure why Ulster haven't used him more at 10. As Awec says he can get away with more at 10. There he'd be stuck in between McCloskey and Coetzee.

Buer · 07-09-2020 6:38pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Was perfectly good against Leinster in the QF last season.

Indeed. I posted earlier that I had a feeling Byrne might get the nod for this one. That's not disrespect to Ulster, just an indication as to how highly Byrne is rated.

sydthebeat · 07-09-2020 6:40pm

bilston wrote: »

I hope Byrne does start instead of Sexton for all sorts of reasons.

If nothing else it will confirm in the minds of the Ulster squad how little Leinater think of them.

Ross Byrne played all 80 against Ulster in the quarter final last year.... and kicked leinster to victory

Paul Smeenus · 07-09-2020 6:54pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Ross Byrne played all 80 against Ulster in the quarter final last year.... and kicked leinster to victory

I was very disappointed Byrne was starting against us - nothing to do with any perceived slight, but he was playing better than Sexton and I genuinely thought we'd stand a better chance against Sexton.

bilston · 07-09-2020 7:15pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

I was very disappointed Byrne was starting against us - nothing to do with any perceived slight, but he was playing better than Sexton and I genuinely thought we'd stand a better chance against Sexton.

It's the league final and they can't be bothered starting the Ireland captain...I'd be taking that as a sleight.

Leinster don't rate us (I don't blame them)...its about time we played with a bit of a chip on our shoulders against them.

Buer · 07-09-2020 7:21pm

I can't wait until Ross Byrne sees this thread and sees the level of disrespect from Ulster.

bilston · 07-09-2020 7:25pm

Buer wrote: »

I can't wait until Ross Byrne sees this thread and sees the level of disrespect from Ulster.

Sure he's used to it, he's not even the best out half in his family

Buer · 07-09-2020 7:28pm

bilston wrote: »

Sure he's used to it, he's not even the best out half in his family

Himself and David Humphreys should hang out.

Superfoods · 07-09-2020 7:37pm

bilston wrote: »

Sure he's used to it, he's not even the best out half in his family

At the moment Ross is ahead of Harry

Harry has potential to be better but just potential. R

DGRulz · 07-09-2020 9:27pm

Just gonna leave this here ... https://youtu.be/GEUfmZcScoE

Dave_The_Sheep · 07-09-2020 9:34pm

To this day I have no idea what he was thinking.

Full match is here, if anyone's interested.

typhoony · 07-09-2020 9:36pm

Buer wrote: »

Larmour will be a loss not only because we're down another back three player but it also would have been good if he could build on his solid aerial showing last weekend before we face the Saracens bombardment.

Ryan will hopefully get 30 minutes from the bench. Hopefully Baird retains a spot in the 23. Toner has played the most of any of them so might be due a break to facilitate Ryan's return. I'd be happy to start Baird and let him absolutely empty the tank for this one. Good exposure for him.

Then go with Fardy, Ryan and Toner for the Saracens game. Second row is one area where they've really lost some quality. Skelton has departed. Kruis is going to Japan (I thought he was seeing out this season but no sign of him and hasn't played any rugby since the 6N). Isiekwe is on loan at Northampton. It's an area where we should really be looking to turn the screw.

With our lack of in depth options in the back line, I wouldn't be against a 6/2 split again. We have a clear advantage at lock and flanker. Having Ruddock, Doris, VDF, Conan and Connors/Leavy in the 23 would be very hard for Saracens to cope with.

it would be great to see a pairing of Ryan and Baird, Ryan can call the lineouts to himself and be the grunt in the tight exchanges and let Baird use his athleticism in the loose.

arsebiscuits1 · 07-09-2020 9:41pm

typhoony wrote: »

it would be great to see a pairing of Ryan and Baird, Ryan can call the lineouts to himself and be the grunt in the tight exchanges and let Baird use his athleticism in the loose.

I think you've the wrong end of the stick.

His name is just Ryan Baird

stephen_n · 07-09-2020 9:42pm

awec wrote: »

Stockdale is not a great defender either but at least he has height and mass. I think Lowry's only real chance of a successful pro career is at 10, because he can be hidden somewhat in defence.

You can't hide your fullback though.

Size is far less important in terms of tackling at full back. Smaller 10’s will be targeted by number 8’s hitting their channel. It’s hard to protect your 10 from that. In the air his size might be a disadvantage but she seems fairly athletic.

shaungil · 07-09-2020 10:02pm

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

I think you've the wrong end of the stick.

His name is just Ryan Baird

Second Row Pairing Ryan Squared

typhoony · 07-09-2020 10:20pm

stephen_n wrote: »

Size is far less important in terms of tackling at full back. Smaller 10’s will be targeted by number 8’s hitting their channel. It’s hard to protect your 10 from that. In the air his size might be a disadvantage but she seems fairly athletic.

but there are some notable exceptions, McKenzie and Jason Robinson small but punch above their weight

07-09-2020 10:23pm

stephen_n wrote: »

Size is far less important in terms of tackling at full back. Smaller 10’s will be targeted by number 8’s hitting their channel. It’s hard to protect your 10 from that. In the air his size might be a disadvantage but she seems fairly athletic.

Yeah, a fullback generally will make low single digit tackles per game, the out half will generally make a lot more.

Leinster v Ulster Pro14 Final Sept 12th 7.35pm Build Up

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