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Leinster v Ulster Pro14 Final Sept 12th 7.35pm Build Up

  • 05-09-2020 10:15pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 9,184 ✭✭✭ Burkie1203


    Leinster by 12


«13456714

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,564 ✭✭✭✭ Buer


    Burkie1203 wrote: »
    Leinster by 12

    I think it's going to be a painful game. Ulster aren't great right now but will throw the kitchen sink. Leinster will be thinking about the next week but will have enough in the tank.

    I can see it being a grim 19-13 type game with only a single try for each side.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 322 ✭✭ Superfoods


    Leinster v Ulster proves that Ulster is now number 2 province in Ireland.

    Both clubs still in HC so will be interesting how they prepare


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,564 ✭✭✭✭ Buer


    Superfoods wrote: »
    Leinster v Ulster proves that Ulster is now number 2 province in Ireland.

    Both clubs still in HC so will be interesting how they prepare

    Ulster have been the number 2 province for a good while now. The results have supported that for the last 18 months.

    They've had the better of the head to head games with Munster and, on the big stage, pushed Leinster all the way in Dublin.

    There's no evidence to suggest Ulster aren't the second best province. They simply don't enjoy the same level of coverage and interest though so get glossed over.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,407 CMod ✭✭✭✭ awec


    If Clancy is refereeing this I will be very unhappy.

    I hope we all get to witness salty ladyboy tears next weekend. It would be amazing. Crying into their Don Perignon, angrily munching on that smoked salmon, awkwardly playing with the collar of their pink dress shirts.

    Let's just finally beat this lot and be done with it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,184 ✭✭✭ Burkie1203


    awec wrote: »
    If Clancy is refereeing this I will be very unhappy.

    I hope we all get to witness salty ladyboy tears next weekend. It would be amazing. Crying into their prosecco, angrily munching on that smoked salmon, awkwardly playing with the collar of their pink dress shirts.

    Clancy nailed on to be the ref as he didn't have a game this weekend.

    And to annoy you.


    Lacey on one line, and Garces on the other


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,564 ✭✭✭✭ Buer


    awec wrote: »
    If Clancy is refereeing this I will be very unhappy.

    I hope we all get to witness salty ladyboy tears next weekend. It would be amazing. Crying into their prosecco, angrily munching on that smoked salmon, awkwardly playing with the collar of their pink dress shirts.

    That is all sooooo 2012.

    Oh, also.... we're going to beat you like a ginger stepchild.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,407 CMod ✭✭✭✭ awec


    Victory for the common man over the bourgeoisie.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,407 CMod ✭✭✭✭ awec


    And I tell ye what, I hope Saracens pump ye as well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,793 ✭✭✭ Paul Smeenus


    Buer wrote: »
    Ulster have been the number 2 province for a good while now. The results have supported that for the last 18 months.

    They've had the better of the head to head games with Munster and, on the big stage, pushed Leinster all the way in Dublin.

    There's no evidence to suggest Ulster aren't the second best province. They simply don't enjoy the same level of coverage and interest though so get glossed over.

    100%. We're Northern and don't have the amount of wilfully blind romanticism and nostalgia liberally applied to every article and assessment. I made this point in a very long and tedious way last night - Munster have better PR. And it's relentless. It's stopping Van Graan having the room to forego results to focus on integrating the youngsters convincingly.

    Someone posted about the last time we beat Edinburgh and then faced Leinster in a final - it was the HEC and we were utterly whipped. But how did we get to that semi against Edinburgh? We went to Thomond and beat Munster at home. Lazy journos love a rivalry, so love Munster vs Leinster. It's about cheesy writing and utterly simplistic characterisation of the provinces. It's not about what province is actually capable of dethroning Leinster - the last province to actually do it was Connacht.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,407 CMod ✭✭✭✭ awec


    100%. We're Northern and don't have the amount of wilfully blind romanticism and nostalgia liberally applied to every article and assessment. I made this point in a very long and tedious way last night - Munster have better PR. And it's relentless. It's stopping Van Graan having the room to forego results to focus on integrating the youngsters convincingly.

    Someone posted about the last time we beat Edinburgh and then faced Leinster in a final - it was the HEC and we were utterly whipped. But how did we get to that semi against Edinburgh? We went to Thomond and beat Munster at home. Lazy journos love a rivalry, so love Munster vs Leinster. It's about cheesy writing and utterly simplistic characterisation of the provinces. It's not about what province is actually capable of dethroning Leinster - the last province to actually do it was Connacht.

    That was the game when one esteemed Irish journo declared that Ulster beating Munster would be terrible for Irish rugby. :pac:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,564 ✭✭✭✭ Buer


    awec wrote: »
    And I tell ye what, I hope Saracens pump ye as well.

    Sorry, can't chat. Shopping online for a Toulouse jersey.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 Former Former


    awec wrote: »
    That was the game when one esteemed Irish journo declared that Ulster beating Munster would be terrible for Irish rugby. :pac:

    And he was right.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,407 CMod ✭✭✭✭ awec


    And he was right.

    You're making a habit out of being wrong FF, what's happened to you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,978 irishbucsfan


    Haha I forgot that article, Farrelly didn't last long after that. It was gibberish stuff


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,374 ✭✭✭✭ molloyjh


    awec wrote: »
    And I tell ye what, I hope Saracens pump ye as well.

    Well thats just nasty.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,737 ✭✭✭ jacothelad


    Buer wrote: »
    Ulster have been the number 2 province for a good while now. The results have supported that for the last 18 months.

    They've had the better of the head to head games with Munster and, on the big stage, pushed Leinster all the way in Dublin.

    There's no evidence to suggest Ulster aren't the second best province. They simply don't enjoy the same level of coverage and interest though so get glossed over.
    Superfoods wrote: »
    Leinster v Ulster proves that Ulster is now number 2 province in Ireland.

    Both clubs still in HC so will be interesting how they prepare


    I don't think there is much between the other 3. Even if it was true that one is clearly in 'second' place it doesn't mean diddly. I remember posting over a decade ago on the Ulster Forum that the decline of rugby in Ulster was virtually unstoppable once the 'politicians' (laughable, I know to dedscribe any of them as anything other than a waste of blood and organs) got hold of the education system in N.I. Those amateur fools destroyed the grammar schools to satisfy some bizarre loonytoon fake left wing ideology. It wasn't just this of course but it was a major part of the rugby life of the province. There have been a series of demographic upheavals, not least the huge exodus of students to G.B. who leave and never return. If it was possible for rugby to spread into Ulster schools which currently play GAA almost exclusively then things might start to get better. GAA and rugby aren't mutually exclusive and should be happy bedfellows.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,599 ✭✭✭✭ stephen_n


    Superfoods wrote: »
    Leinster v Ulster proves that Ulster is now number 2 province in Ireland.

    Both clubs still in HC so will be interesting how they prepare

    Given current form neither team is showing HC winning form. Though of the two Leinster are the more likely to succeed. This is Ulsters best chance at silverware, I would imagine they will throw the kitchen sink at it and whatever happens in Europe, happens.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 Former Former


    awec wrote: »
    You're making a habit out of being wrong FF, what's happened to you?

    Let's rectify that.

    Leinster are going to hammer Ulster next weekend cos youse are shyte.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 Former Former


    Buer wrote: »
    Ulster have been the number 2 province for a good while now. The results have supported that for the last 18 months.

    They've had the better of the head to head games with Munster and, on the big stage, pushed Leinster all the way in Dublin.

    There's no evidence to suggest Ulster aren't the second best province. They simply don't enjoy the same level of coverage and interest though so get glossed over.

    In fairness, it's less than 18 months ago that Munster were playing their third Champions Cup semi final in a row. It's less than 18 months ago that Ulster were conceding 50 points in a Pro14 semi final. Ulster were absolutely shocking for long periods last night and were even worse in the previous two games.

    I'd say it's pretty close between them tbh. I don't think you can say Ulster are definitely better and have been for a while.

    The difference in media coverage is probably down to the fact that most Ulster fans live in a different country.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,793 ✭✭✭ Paul Smeenus


    In fairness, it's less than 18 months ago that Munster were playing their third Champions Cup semi final in a row. It's less than 18 months ago that Ulster were conceding 50 points in a Pro14 semi final. Ulster were absolutely shocking for long periods last night and were even worse in the previous two games.

    I'd say it's pretty close between them tbh. I don't think you can say Ulster are definitely better and have been for a while.

    The difference in media coverage is probably down to the fact that most Ulster fans live in a different country.

    Oh yeah. Like most Ulster supporters, I'm long past feeling properly aggrieved about the media coverage. I actually think it's a millstone round the Munster coaches' necks.

    The "have been better for a while" has been over-egged, true. And Ulster have been up and down - very down before McFarland's arrival. But leaving that, and eighteen months, aside, we're in the Pro14 final and have a Euro QF coming up. Munster are finished for the season. Why wouldn't we say we are currently better? If being in knock-out games at the business end of two competitions against excellent opposition isn't an indicator of where we are as a team, what the hell are the criteria?

    We were indeed poor for periods last night, but we all saw the previous semi-final on Friday, so let's not throw stones about rubbish recent performances. We scored three tries last night. Munster scored three points. And Leinster weren't very good eithet.

    I feel for frustrated Munster fans. But even if you thought we were currently neck and neck, that alone is much more credit than we get in the media. We know the narratives. Munster are always capable of pulling it out of the bag, with a backs-to-the-wall performance of passion and grit, an attitude forged in the fires of Thomond by POC, ROG etc. Ulster should always be doing better, and when we've won a couple of decent games, it's "nOw it's TiMe foR Them tO DeLiveR".

    It's reflective of media audiences, not how well the teams are actually playing, that's all. It's not really important. I reserve the right to give off about it occasionally, is all. And when people parrot those same sketchy cliches on a message board, they can expect to be asked about it.

    I'm also aware I'm debating this with Leinster fans, not Munster fans.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭ Utah_Saint


    the very small chance Ulster have in this final rests with Leinsters focus. If they have one eye on the CC then we have chance.

    The 2 packs that Leinster can field are top class. This will be won or lost with the packs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,261 ✭✭✭✭ Clegg


    Leinster will definitely be keeping an eye on the Saracens game, but I don't think that'll play into how they treat the final. It's a huge game, not only for being a final, but because there's there chance of a 100% record for the league season.

    I think we'll see some changes from last weekends game, but not wholesale ones. Maybe Ruddock and VDF back into the starting 15 and Ryan and Furlong into the 23. We'll need to have a strong bench to counteract Ulster's subs as that's what won them game against Edinburgh. I don't expect the same sort of side that lined out against Ulster a few weeks ago. It'll have to be much stronger.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,261 ✭✭✭✭ Clegg


    So Ryan is available but Larmour and Furlong will probably be absent. Not surprised that Leavy will probably miss out. But hoped the other two would have made it.

    https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1302937112292077568?s=19


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,745 ✭✭✭ ongarite


    3 weeks now out for Furlong.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,564 ✭✭✭✭ Buer


    Larmour will be a loss not only because we're down another back three player but it also would have been good if he could build on his solid aerial showing last weekend before we face the Saracens bombardment.

    Ryan will hopefully get 30 minutes from the bench. Hopefully Baird retains a spot in the 23. Toner has played the most of any of them so might be due a break to facilitate Ryan's return. I'd be happy to start Baird and let him absolutely empty the tank for this one. Good exposure for him.

    Then go with Fardy, Ryan and Toner for the Saracens game. Second row is one area where they've really lost some quality. Skelton has departed. Kruis is going to Japan (I thought he was seeing out this season but no sign of him and hasn't played any rugby since the 6N). Isiekwe is on loan at Northampton. It's an area where we should really be looking to turn the screw.

    With our lack of in depth options in the back line, I wouldn't be against a 6/2 split again. We have a clear advantage at lock and flanker. Having Ruddock, Doris, VDF, Conan and Connors/Leavy in the 23 would be very hard for Saracens to cope with.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,631 ✭✭✭ crisco10


    Buer wrote: »
    Larmour will be a loss not only because we're down another back three player but it also would have been good if he could build on his solid aerial showing last weekend before we face the Saracens bombardment.

    Ryan will hopefully get 30 minutes from the bench. Hopefully Baird retains a spot in the 23. Toner has played the most of any of them so might be due a break to facilitate Ryan's return. I'd be happy to start Baird and let him absolutely empty the tank for this one. Good exposure for him.

    Then go with Fardy, Ryan and Toner for the Saracens game. Second row is one area where they've really lost some quality. Skelton has departed. Kruis is going to Japan (I thought he was seeing out this season but no sign of him and hasn't played any rugby since the 6N). Isiekwe is on loan at Northampton. It's an area where we should really be looking to turn the screw.

    With our lack of in depth options in the back line, I wouldn't be against a 6/2 split again. We have a clear advantage at lock and flanker. Having Ruddock, Doris, VDF, Conan and Connors/Leavy in the 23 would be very hard for Saracens to cope with.


    6/2 is such a risk if you ship an injury in the backline tho. It inevitably ends up with your scrum half filling in out of position. Earls try in the 1st game back came from JGP defending as a winger and struggling a tad.

    Not every scrum half will give you a Marmion against Australia wingers performance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,261 ✭✭✭✭ Clegg


    I'd consider leaving Fardy out altogether and going with Baird and Toner to start. Fardy hasn't been playing to his very best since the restart and might need a week off now to prepare for the final. I think Baird is probably starting seeing as he benched last weekend.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,046 ✭✭✭ arsebiscuits1


    Larmour will be in the absence of any further symptoms - I'd be pretty confidant of seeing him line out

    Shame to be missing Furlong and Leavy still


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,261 ✭✭✭✭ Clegg


    crisco10 wrote: »
    6/2 is such a risk if you ship an injury in the backline tho. It inevitably ends up with your scrum half filling in out of position. Earls try in the 1st game back came from JGP defending as a winger and struggling a tad.

    Not every scrum half will give you a Marmion against Australia wingers performance.

    Leinster could go with a 6/2 split if they chose Frawley as their number 22. Can play 10, 12 and 15 at a pinch. Could cover for injury in a lot of different positions. Although I'm not sure how well that would play with Ross Byrne.

    The 6/2 split is something Leinster should definitely consider for this game and for Saracens. Ulsters bench changed the tide for them last weekend. We'd need a lot of firepower on our bench to match up, especially if the game is close after 60 minutes.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,564 ✭✭✭✭ Buer


    It will be interesting to see what changes Ulster make. They were a far better side in the second half than they were for the first 40 minutes and that was in no small part owing to the changes they made. I imagine Moore and McGrath will come straight back in but the changes thereafter will be more interesting.

    Will they throw caution to the wind and drop Cooney as form demands? AB looked a bit sluggish compared to the past but was still a clear upgrade.

    Jordi Murphy made 13 tackles, missing none in the opening half but still looked underpowered. He carried 5 times for no ground made which isn't surprising at all. Reidy is a more effective and robust carrier. Murphy has more big game experience than most of the Ulster team combined though so I can see it being hard for them to pass him over for this.

    Sam Carter is bringing nothing to the table. I don't see the point in persisting with him. The difference to the Ulster maul when Treadwell, Moore and McGrath were on was huge.

    I don't think there's much Ulster can do outside of 9 aside from potentially moving Stockdale to the wing and he looked very comfortable at 15 against Leinster a fortnight ago so might remain there.


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