Leinster v Ulster Pro14 Final Sept 12th 7.35pm Build Up

Burkie1203

Leinster by 12

Buer

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Leinster by 12

I think it's going to be a painful game. Ulster aren't great right now but will throw the kitchen sink. Leinster will be thinking about the next week but will have enough in the tank.

I can see it being a grim 19-13 type game with only a single try for each side.

Superfoods

Leinster v Ulster proves that Ulster is now number 2 province in Ireland.

Both clubs still in HC so will be interesting how they prepare

Buer

Superfoods wrote: »

Leinster v Ulster proves that Ulster is now number 2 province in Ireland.

Both clubs still in HC so will be interesting how they prepare

Ulster have been the number 2 province for a good while now. The results have supported that for the last 18 months.

They've had the better of the head to head games with Munster and, on the big stage, pushed Leinster all the way in Dublin.

There's no evidence to suggest Ulster aren't the second best province. They simply don't enjoy the same level of coverage and interest though so get glossed over.

awec

If Clancy is refereeing this I will be very unhappy.

I hope we all get to witness salty ladyboy tears next weekend. It would be amazing. Crying into their Don Perignon, angrily munching on that smoked salmon, awkwardly playing with the collar of their pink dress shirts.

Let's just finally beat this lot and be done with it.

Burkie1203

awec wrote: »

If Clancy is refereeing this I will be very unhappy.

I hope we all get to witness salty ladyboy tears next weekend. It would be amazing. Crying into their prosecco, angrily munching on that smoked salmon, awkwardly playing with the collar of their pink dress shirts.

Clancy nailed on to be the ref as he didn't have a game this weekend.

And to annoy you.


Lacey on one line, and Garces on the other

Buer

awec wrote: »

If Clancy is refereeing this I will be very unhappy.

I hope we all get to witness salty ladyboy tears next weekend. It would be amazing. Crying into their prosecco, angrily munching on that smoked salmon, awkwardly playing with the collar of their pink dress shirts.

That is all sooooo 2012.

Oh, also.... we're going to beat you like a ginger stepchild.

awec

Victory for the common man over the bourgeoisie.

awec

And I tell ye what, I hope Saracens pump ye as well.

Paul Smeenus

Buer wrote: »

Ulster have been the number 2 province for a good while now. The results have supported that for the last 18 months.

They've had the better of the head to head games with Munster and, on the big stage, pushed Leinster all the way in Dublin.

There's no evidence to suggest Ulster aren't the second best province. They simply don't enjoy the same level of coverage and interest though so get glossed over.

100%. We're Northern and don't have the amount of wilfully blind romanticism and nostalgia liberally applied to every article and assessment. I made this point in a very long and tedious way last night - Munster have better PR. And it's relentless. It's stopping Van Graan having the room to forego results to focus on integrating the youngsters convincingly.

Someone posted about the last time we beat Edinburgh and then faced Leinster in a final - it was the HEC and we were utterly whipped. But how did we get to that semi against Edinburgh? We went to Thomond and beat Munster at home. Lazy journos love a rivalry, so love Munster vs Leinster. It's about cheesy writing and utterly simplistic characterisation of the provinces. It's not about what province is actually capable of dethroning Leinster - the last province to actually do it was Connacht.

awec

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

100%. We're Northern and don't have the amount of wilfully blind romanticism and nostalgia liberally applied to every article and assessment. I made this point in a very long and tedious way last night - Munster have better PR. And it's relentless. It's stopping Van Graan having the room to forego results to focus on integrating the youngsters convincingly.

Someone posted about the last time we beat Edinburgh and then faced Leinster in a final - it was the HEC and we were utterly whipped. But how did we get to that semi against Edinburgh? We went to Thomond and beat Munster at home. Lazy journos love a rivalry, so love Munster vs Leinster. It's about cheesy writing and utterly simplistic characterisation of the provinces. It's not about what province is actually capable of dethroning Leinster - the last province to actually do it was Connacht.

That was the game when one esteemed Irish journo declared that Ulster beating Munster would be terrible for Irish rugby. :pac:

Buer

awec wrote: »

And I tell ye what, I hope Saracens pump ye as well.

Sorry, can't chat. Shopping online for a Toulouse jersey.

Former Former

awec wrote: »

That was the game when one esteemed Irish journo declared that Ulster beating Munster would be terrible for Irish rugby. :pac:

And he was right.

awec

Former Former wrote: »

And he was right.

You're making a habit out of being wrong FF, what's happened to you?

irishbucsfan

Haha I forgot that article, Farrelly didn't last long after that. It was gibberish stuff

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

And I tell ye what, I hope Saracens pump ye as well.

Well thats just nasty.

jacothelad

Buer wrote: »

Ulster have been the number 2 province for a good while now. The results have supported that for the last 18 months.

They've had the better of the head to head games with Munster and, on the big stage, pushed Leinster all the way in Dublin.

There's no evidence to suggest Ulster aren't the second best province. They simply don't enjoy the same level of coverage and interest though so get glossed over.

Superfoods wrote: »

Leinster v Ulster proves that Ulster is now number 2 province in Ireland.

Both clubs still in HC so will be interesting how they prepare

I don't think there is much between the other 3. Even if it was true that one is clearly in 'second' place it doesn't mean diddly. I remember posting over a decade ago on the Ulster Forum that the decline of rugby in Ulster was virtually unstoppable once the 'politicians' (laughable, I know to dedscribe any of them as anything other than a waste of blood and organs) got hold of the education system in N.I. Those amateur fools destroyed the grammar schools to satisfy some bizarre loonytoon fake left wing ideology. It wasn't just this of course but it was a major part of the rugby life of the province. There have been a series of demographic upheavals, not least the huge exodus of students to G.B. who leave and never return. If it was possible for rugby to spread into Ulster schools which currently play GAA almost exclusively then things might start to get better. GAA and rugby aren't mutually exclusive and should be happy bedfellows.....

stephen_n

Superfoods wrote: »

Leinster v Ulster proves that Ulster is now number 2 province in Ireland.

Both clubs still in HC so will be interesting how they prepare

Given current form neither team is showing HC winning form. Though of the two Leinster are the more likely to succeed. This is Ulsters best chance at silverware, I would imagine they will throw the kitchen sink at it and whatever happens in Europe, happens.

Former Former

awec wrote: »

You're making a habit out of being wrong FF, what's happened to you?

Let's rectify that.

Leinster are going to hammer Ulster next weekend cos youse are shyte.

Former Former

Buer wrote: »

Ulster have been the number 2 province for a good while now. The results have supported that for the last 18 months.

They've had the better of the head to head games with Munster and, on the big stage, pushed Leinster all the way in Dublin.

There's no evidence to suggest Ulster aren't the second best province. They simply don't enjoy the same level of coverage and interest though so get glossed over.

In fairness, it's less than 18 months ago that Munster were playing their third Champions Cup semi final in a row. It's less than 18 months ago that Ulster were conceding 50 points in a Pro14 semi final. Ulster were absolutely shocking for long periods last night and were even worse in the previous two games.

I'd say it's pretty close between them tbh. I don't think you can say Ulster are definitely better and have been for a while.

The difference in media coverage is probably down to the fact that most Ulster fans live in a different country.

Paul Smeenus

Former Former wrote: »

In fairness, it's less than 18 months ago that Munster were playing their third Champions Cup semi final in a row. It's less than 18 months ago that Ulster were conceding 50 points in a Pro14 semi final. Ulster were absolutely shocking for long periods last night and were even worse in the previous two games.

I'd say it's pretty close between them tbh. I don't think you can say Ulster are definitely better and have been for a while.

The difference in media coverage is probably down to the fact that most Ulster fans live in a different country.

Oh yeah. Like most Ulster supporters, I'm long past feeling properly aggrieved about the media coverage. I actually think it's a millstone round the Munster coaches' necks.

The "have been better for a while" has been over-egged, true. And Ulster have been up and down - very down before McFarland's arrival. But leaving that, and eighteen months, aside, we're in the Pro14 final and have a Euro QF coming up. Munster are finished for the season. Why wouldn't we say we are currently better? If being in knock-out games at the business end of two competitions against excellent opposition isn't an indicator of where we are as a team, what the hell are the criteria?

We were indeed poor for periods last night, but we all saw the previous semi-final on Friday, so let's not throw stones about rubbish recent performances. We scored three tries last night. Munster scored three points. And Leinster weren't very good eithet.

I feel for frustrated Munster fans. But even if you thought we were currently neck and neck, that alone is much more credit than we get in the media. We know the narratives. Munster are always capable of pulling it out of the bag, with a backs-to-the-wall performance of passion and grit, an attitude forged in the fires of Thomond by POC, ROG etc. Ulster should always be doing better, and when we've won a couple of decent games, it's "nOw it's TiMe foR Them tO DeLiveR".

It's reflective of media audiences, not how well the teams are actually playing, that's all. It's not really important. I reserve the right to give off about it occasionally, is all. And when people parrot those same sketchy cliches on a message board, they can expect to be asked about it.

I'm also aware I'm debating this with Leinster fans, not Munster fans.

Utah_Saint

the very small chance Ulster have in this final rests with Leinsters focus. If they have one eye on the CC then we have chance.

The 2 packs that Leinster can field are top class. This will be won or lost with the packs.

Clegg

Leinster will definitely be keeping an eye on the Saracens game, but I don't think that'll play into how they treat the final. It's a huge game, not only for being a final, but because there's there chance of a 100% record for the league season.

I think we'll see some changes from last weekends game, but not wholesale ones. Maybe Ruddock and VDF back into the starting 15 and Ryan and Furlong into the 23. We'll need to have a strong bench to counteract Ulster's subs as that's what won them game against Edinburgh. I don't expect the same sort of side that lined out against Ulster a few weeks ago. It'll have to be much stronger.

Clegg

So Ryan is available but Larmour and Furlong will probably be absent. Not surprised that Leavy will probably miss out. But hoped the other two would have made it.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1302937112292077568?s=19

ongarite

3 weeks now out for Furlong.

Buer

Larmour will be a loss not only because we're down another back three player but it also would have been good if he could build on his solid aerial showing last weekend before we face the Saracens bombardment.

Ryan will hopefully get 30 minutes from the bench. Hopefully Baird retains a spot in the 23. Toner has played the most of any of them so might be due a break to facilitate Ryan's return. I'd be happy to start Baird and let him absolutely empty the tank for this one. Good exposure for him.

Then go with Fardy, Ryan and Toner for the Saracens game. Second row is one area where they've really lost some quality. Skelton has departed. Kruis is going to Japan (I thought he was seeing out this season but no sign of him and hasn't played any rugby since the 6N). Isiekwe is on loan at Northampton. It's an area where we should really be looking to turn the screw.

With our lack of in depth options in the back line, I wouldn't be against a 6/2 split again. We have a clear advantage at lock and flanker. Having Ruddock, Doris, VDF, Conan and Connors/Leavy in the 23 would be very hard for Saracens to cope with.

crisco10

Buer wrote: »

Larmour will be a loss not only because we're down another back three player but it also would have been good if he could build on his solid aerial showing last weekend before we face the Saracens bombardment.

Ryan will hopefully get 30 minutes from the bench. Hopefully Baird retains a spot in the 23. Toner has played the most of any of them so might be due a break to facilitate Ryan's return. I'd be happy to start Baird and let him absolutely empty the tank for this one. Good exposure for him.

Then go with Fardy, Ryan and Toner for the Saracens game. Second row is one area where they've really lost some quality. Skelton has departed. Kruis is going to Japan (I thought he was seeing out this season but no sign of him and hasn't played any rugby since the 6N). Isiekwe is on loan at Northampton. It's an area where we should really be looking to turn the screw.

With our lack of in depth options in the back line, I wouldn't be against a 6/2 split again. We have a clear advantage at lock and flanker. Having Ruddock, Doris, VDF, Conan and Connors/Leavy in the 23 would be very hard for Saracens to cope with.

6/2 is such a risk if you ship an injury in the backline tho. It inevitably ends up with your scrum half filling in out of position. Earls try in the 1st game back came from JGP defending as a winger and struggling a tad.

Not every scrum half will give you a Marmion against Australia wingers performance.

Clegg

I'd consider leaving Fardy out altogether and going with Baird and Toner to start. Fardy hasn't been playing to his very best since the restart and might need a week off now to prepare for the final. I think Baird is probably starting seeing as he benched last weekend.

arsebiscuits1

Larmour will be in the absence of any further symptoms - I'd be pretty confidant of seeing him line out

Shame to be missing Furlong and Leavy still

Clegg

crisco10 wrote: »

6/2 is such a risk if you ship an injury in the backline tho. It inevitably ends up with your scrum half filling in out of position. Earls try in the 1st game back came from JGP defending as a winger and struggling a tad.

Not every scrum half will give you a Marmion against Australia wingers performance.

Leinster could go with a 6/2 split if they chose Frawley as their number 22. Can play 10, 12 and 15 at a pinch. Could cover for injury in a lot of different positions. Although I'm not sure how well that would play with Ross Byrne.

The 6/2 split is something Leinster should definitely consider for this game and for Saracens. Ulsters bench changed the tide for them last weekend. We'd need a lot of firepower on our bench to match up, especially if the game is close after 60 minutes.

Buer

It will be interesting to see what changes Ulster make. They were a far better side in the second half than they were for the first 40 minutes and that was in no small part owing to the changes they made. I imagine Moore and McGrath will come straight back in but the changes thereafter will be more interesting.

Will they throw caution to the wind and drop Cooney as form demands? AB looked a bit sluggish compared to the past but was still a clear upgrade.

Jordi Murphy made 13 tackles, missing none in the opening half but still looked underpowered. He carried 5 times for no ground made which isn't surprising at all. Reidy is a more effective and robust carrier. Murphy has more big game experience than most of the Ulster team combined though so I can see it being hard for them to pass him over for this.

Sam Carter is bringing nothing to the table. I don't see the point in persisting with him. The difference to the Ulster maul when Treadwell, Moore and McGrath were on was huge.

I don't think there's much Ulster can do outside of 9 aside from potentially moving Stockdale to the wing and he looked very comfortable at 15 against Leinster a fortnight ago so might remain there.

Zzippy

Current awec mood:

Buer

Clegg wrote: »

Leinster could go with a 6/2 split if they chose Frawley as their number 22. Can play 10, 12 and 15 at a pinch. Could cover for injury in a lot of different positions. Although I'm not sure how well that would play with Ross Byrne.

.

I honestly think there's a slight chance that Ross Byrne might start this one although I'd say it's probably 70/30 in favour of Sexton. I can see there being at least one surprise. Possibly Baird back into the starting side although that wouldn't be a particular surprise.

If I was looking for a left field selection, I'd say Ed Byrne to start.

hirondelle

Buer wrote: »

It will be interesting to see what changes Ulster make. They were a far better side in the second half than they were for the first 40 minutes and that was in no small part owing to the changes they made. I imagine Moore and McGrath will come straight back in but the changes thereafter will be more interesting.

Will they throw caution to the wind and drop Cooney as form demands? AB looked a bit sluggish compared to the past but was still a clear upgrade.

Jordi Murphy made 13 tackles, missing none in the opening half but still looked underpowered. He carried 5 times for no ground made which isn't surprising at all. Reidy is a more effective and robust carrier. Murphy has more big game experience than most of the Ulster team combined though so I can see it being hard for them to pass him over for this.

Sam Carter is bringing nothing to the table. I don't see the point in persisting with him. The difference to the Ulster maul when Treadwell, Moore and McGrath were on was huge.

I don't think there's much Ulster can do outside of 9 aside from potentially moving Stockdale to the wing and he looked very comfortable at 15 against Leinster a fortnight ago so might remain there.

For me Carter has really stood out as in terms of his lack of impact for Ulster- I think he gave away the first two penalties against Leinster, and that was his most notable contribution.

Paul Smeenus

Buer wrote: »

It will be interesting to see what changes Ulster make. They were a far better side in the second half than they were for the first 40 minutes and that was in no small part owing to the changes they made. I imagine Moore and McGrath will come straight back in but the changes thereafter will be more interesting.

Will they throw caution to the wind and drop Cooney as form demands? AB looked a bit sluggish compared to the past but was still a clear upgrade.

Jordi Murphy made 13 tackles, missing none in the opening half but still looked underpowered. He carried 5 times for no ground made which isn't surprising at all. Reidy is a more effective and robust carrier. Murphy has more big game experience than most of the Ulster team combined though so I can see it being hard for them to pass him over for this.

Sam Carter is bringing nothing to the table. I don't see the point in persisting with him. The difference to the Ulster maul when Treadwell, Moore and McGrath were on was huge.

I don't think there's much Ulster can do outside of 9 aside from potentially moving Stockdale to the wing and he looked very comfortable at 15 against Leinster a fortnight ago so might remain there.

For me Reidy and Treadwell start, and hopefully that means a lot of experience and calm off the bench when Murphy and Carter come on (and a warning to Carter that, if he doesn't sort it out, he could be fourth choice when Hendo comes back).

Cooney starts, with the understanding that McFarland won't hesitate to bin him if he doesn't get back to his old self.

My concern is, I don't want a toothless, "making up the numbers" bench. Maybe a bit of mix'n'match - O'Sullivan and Moore to start? Ludik has been a great, battling servant, but he's 30-odd and in his last season. But who's on the bench, if we start with Lyttle-Lowry-Stockdale? Gilroy? Faddes? Meh.

awec

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

For me Reidy and Treadwell start, and hopefully that means a lot of experience and calm off the bench when Murphy and Carter come on (and a warning to Carter that, if he doesn't sort it out, he could be fourth choice when Hendo comes back).

Cooney starts, with the understanding that McFarland won't hesitate to bin him if he doesn't get back to his old self.

My concern is, I don't want a toothless, "making up the numbers" bench. Maybe a bit of mix'n'match - O'Sullivan and Moore to start? Ludik has been a great, battling servant, but he's 30-odd and in his last season. But who's on the bench, if we start with Lyttle-Lowry-Stockdale? Gilroy? Faddes? Meh.

I'd be concerned with Lowry at full back tbh. He's just too small.

Fine when we have the ball, worrying when we don't.

Superfoods

awec wrote: »

I'd be concerned with Lowry at full back tbh. He's just too small.

Fine when we have the ball, worrying when we don't.

Stick him on, sure what could go wrong :P

Buer

awec wrote: »

I'd be concerned with Lowry at full back tbh. He's just too small.

Fine when we have the ball, worrying when we don't.

The Lyttle/Lowry combination for the last Edinburgh try was the stuff of nightmares. James Lowe would love it.

Saw a rumoured team on PR, it's full strength incl. Ryan and VdF, except with Byrne and JGP instead of Sexton and McGrath. I think JGP should be starting from here out tbh.

Edit - also just came across this tweet which is the same team: https://twitter.com/LimitedBall/status/1303000196004147200?s=20

bilston

I hope Byrne does start instead of Sexton for all sorts of reasons.

If nothing else it will confirm in the minds of the Ulster squad how little Leinater think of them.

stephen_n

awec wrote: »

I'd be concerned with Lowry at full back tbh. He's just too small.

Fine when we have the ball, worrying when we don't.

I thought his defending was an improvement on Stockdale’s on Saturday night.

Clegg

bilston wrote: »

I hope Byrne does start instead of Sexton for all sorts of reasons.

If nothing else it will confirm in the minds of the Ulster squad how little Leinater think of them.

Low quality bait. He'd start for every other province.

awec

stephen_n wrote: »

I thought his defending was an improvement on Stockdale’s on Saturday night.

Stockdale is not a great defender either but at least he has height and mass. I think Lowry's only real chance of a successful pro career is at 10, because he can be hidden somewhat in defence.

You can't hide your fullback though.

Paul Smeenus

Was perfectly good against Leinster in the QF last season.

bilston

Lowry is a good defender...for his size...its a hard one...he is such a talented player...but size will probably always be held against him.

I'm not sure why Ulster haven't used him more at 10. As Awec says he can get away with more at 10. There he'd be stuck in between McCloskey and Coetzee.

Buer

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Was perfectly good against Leinster in the QF last season.

Indeed. I posted earlier that I had a feeling Byrne might get the nod for this one. That's not disrespect to Ulster, just an indication as to how highly Byrne is rated.

sydthebeat

bilston wrote: »

I hope Byrne does start instead of Sexton for all sorts of reasons.

If nothing else it will confirm in the minds of the Ulster squad how little Leinater think of them.

Ross Byrne played all 80 against Ulster in the quarter final last year.... and kicked leinster to victory

Paul Smeenus

sydthebeat wrote: »

Ross Byrne played all 80 against Ulster in the quarter final last year.... and kicked leinster to victory

I was very disappointed Byrne was starting against us - nothing to do with any perceived slight, but he was playing better than Sexton and I genuinely thought we'd stand a better chance against Sexton.

bilston

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

I was very disappointed Byrne was starting against us - nothing to do with any perceived slight, but he was playing better than Sexton and I genuinely thought we'd stand a better chance against Sexton.

It's the league final and they can't be bothered starting the Ireland captain...I'd be taking that as a sleight.

Leinster don't rate us (I don't blame them)...its about time we played with a bit of a chip on our shoulders against them.

Buer

I can't wait until Ross Byrne sees this thread and sees the level of disrespect from Ulster.

bilston

Buer wrote: »

I can't wait until Ross Byrne sees this thread and sees the level of disrespect from Ulster.

Sure he's used to it, he's not even the best out half in his family