Harsh sentence

Dante7 · 05-02-2019 10:40pm #1

This sentence seems very harsh for the offence of drunkenly climbing into bed with someone and feeling them up. Other judges have given lesser sentences for anally raping children.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-jailed-for-sexually-assaulting-fiances-friend-on-night-of-engagement-party-37786159.html

SCOOP 64 · 05-02-2019 10:46pm

Wonder if the marriage is still on with his fiancee ?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 05-02-2019 10:55pm

More a case of other sentencing being too lenient than this being too harsh.

colm_mcm · 05-02-2019 10:59pm

A taxi driver has being jailed for one year

Top journalism there.

TomSweeney · 05-02-2019 10:59pm

Hmm dunno, if he genuinely thought it was his fiances bed then yeah, seems very harsh.

SEPT 23 1989 · 05-02-2019 11:01pm

Would it have gone this far if some drunk aul one got into bed with a bloke and did the same?

Dante7 · 05-02-2019 11:03pm

Charlotte Breezy Hatchet wrote: »

More a case of other sentencing being too lenient than this being too harsh.

Really? You think that drunkenly getting into bed with a woman and touching her vagina warrants a two and a half year sentence? It's a scummy thing to do and warrants some sort of sanction, probably a caution. But a two and a half year sentence with a year inside and labelled a sex offender for life?

nullzero · 05-02-2019 11:04pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Would it have gone this far if some drunk aul one got into bed with a bloke and did the same?

Of course not, he'd be lucky to have a woman touch his flute, girls will be girls,no harm done.

You get the distinct impression that were he a solicitor from Blackrock and not a taxi driver from tallaght he probably wouldn't be getting a custodial sentence.

corner of hells · 05-02-2019 11:04pm

Dante7 wrote: »

Really? You think that drunkenly getting into bed with a woman and touching her vagina warrants a two and a half year sentence? It's a scummy thing to do and warrants some sort of sanction, probably a caution. But a two and a half year sentence with a year inside and labelled a sex offender for life?

What do you think yourself ?

What sentence would be appropriate ?

frag420 · 05-02-2019 11:05pm

Damn it, saw the title and thought to myself any sentence with the word c*nt in it is usually pretty harsh...then I read the op!?

nullzero · 05-02-2019 11:06pm

corner of hells wrote: »

What do you think yourself ?

What sentence would be appropriate ?

Something thats in line with the scores of violent repeat offenders being allowed to walk out of court for much more serious crimes would be a start.

05-02-2019 11:07pm

I guess it comes down to whether he genuinely thought it was his girlfriend or not. Very harsh sentence and I feel sorry for him if he did think it was his GF

Dante7 · 05-02-2019 11:08pm

corner of hells wrote: »

What do you think yourself ?

What sentence would be appropriate ?

I mentioned it in my post that you quoted. A caution would have sufficed on the legal side.

Vic_08 · 05-02-2019 11:12pm

Dante7 wrote: »

Really? You think that drunkenly getting into bed with a woman and touching her vagina warrants a two and a half year sentence? It's a scummy thing to do and warrants some sort of sanction, probably a caution. But a two and a half year sentence with a year inside and labelled a sex offender for life?

Yes, that sounds right to me.

I'm sick of this "it's grand, I was drunk" excuse. The assault on the victim was just as real as if the assailant was sober.

A caution for a sexual assault, that would be nothing but a slap in the face for the victim.

Did you even read the article before passing opinion? Sure he hadn't even admitted he did anything wrong. Mistakenly doing something illegal is still illegal and the poor attitude afterwards brings the idea that it really was a mistake into even more doubt than would already be solely based on his say so.

Judge Elma Sheahan said that Doran's failure to acknowledge his wrongdoing raised a question as to the level of insight he has into his offending.

She noted that Ms Powers viewed Doran as a brother and the offence was an abuse of this trust. Ms Powers told the court that the assault left her traumatised.

“I trusted you like a brother. My life was derailed. I felt so lost after. I felt abandoned and betrayed,” she said. She said she was terrified during the assault and was tormented by the memory of it.

corner of hells · 05-02-2019 11:18pm

Dante7 wrote: »

I mentioned it in my post that you quoted. A caution would have sufficed on the legal side.

Can a caution be given for that type of offence and if a caution is being given , does it mean the offender admits guilt ?

nullzero · 05-02-2019 11:20pm

corner of hells wrote: »

Can a caution be given for that type of offence and if a caution is being given , does it mean the offender admits guilt ?

The offender can claim innocence be found guilty and be given a suspended sentence or community service etc...

Guy:Incognito · 05-02-2019 11:22pm

Dante7 wrote: »

and labelled a sex offender for life?

Is it not a sexual offence?

corner of hells · 05-02-2019 11:22pm

nullzero wrote: »

The offender can claim innocence be found guilty and be given a suspended sentence or community service etc...

I'm just wondering if a caution can be given for the offence described and does he not have to have admitted his guilt ?

rgodard80a · 05-02-2019 11:25pm

Meh, typical taxi driver.... gets lost and over charged.

batgoat · 05-02-2019 11:27pm

corner of hells wrote: »

I'm just wondering if a caution can be given for the offence described and does he not have to have admitted his guilt ?

Much of the sentence is also suspended so he'll end up serving less than a year. Probably would have gotten less if he showed some remorse and recognition of the impact it had upon her. Either way, see nothing wrong with the sentence.

Your Face · 05-02-2019 11:30pm

He should have got more but shure it's only a woman.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 05-02-2019 11:30pm

One year. Doesn’t seem harsh. If other judges have given shorter sentences for the anal rape of a child, the those sentences were way too short.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 05-02-2019 11:35pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Would it have gone this far if some drunk aul one got into bed with a bloke and did the same?

If she was a young wan, would that be different?

These threads never seem to escape from whataboutery but specifying ‘aul wan’ adds another later of peculiarity to the post.

Anyways... I’ve had what happened to that woman happen to me. I wasn’t traumatised but it’s the creepiest thing that has ever happened to me. And I had nearly drifted off to sleep when it happened. I was pretty drunk but I was in bed for the night. It was at a friend’s house party and she gave me the bedroom to crash in. A few minutes after me getting into bed, a party-goer came into the room, got into bed beside me and put his hand inside my underwear. I just ran off. What would have happened if I been asleep?

Dante7 · 05-02-2019 11:41pm

Hang on a minute here. It is a two and a half year headline sentence for a minor sexual assault. There is something else going on here. Either the accused had a significant history, or maybe the Judge is the anti-Martin Nolan.

BBFAN · 05-02-2019 11:43pm

A year is a harsh sentence?

Since ****ing when?

Dante7 · 05-02-2019 11:43pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

If she was a young wan, would that be different? These threads never seem to escape from whataboutery but specifying ‘aul wan’ adds another later of peculiarity to the post.

Anyways... I’ve had what happened to that woman happen to me. I wasn’t traumatised but it’s the creepiest thing that has ever happened to me. And I had nearly drifted off to sleep when it happened. I was pretty drunk but I was in bed for the night. It was at a friend’s house party and she gave me the bedroom to crash in. A few minutes after me getting into bed, a party-goer came into the room, got into bed beside me and put his hand inside my underwear. I just ran off. What would have happened if I been asleep?

Do you think that a two and a half year sentence would have been appropriate, or would a caution have done the job?

Dante7 · 05-02-2019 11:45pm

BBFAN wrote: »

A year is a harsh sentence?

Since ****ing when?

Since when it is applied to your traveller buddies.

upinsmoke · 05-02-2019 11:46pm

Very Harsh in my opinion when you read the likes of this. Compensation would have sufficing.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/driver-with-483-convictions-gets-18-months-for-killing-teenager-1.2952680%3fmode=amp

BBFAN · 05-02-2019 11:46pm

Dante7 wrote: »

Since when it is applied to your traveller buddies.

Hilarious, please show me where I've defended a traveller sexually assaulting someone.

Sorry you're pathetic thread has backfired on you and no-one is outraged that some skanky pervert got a year in jail.

:D:D:D

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 05-02-2019 11:46pm

Dante7 wrote: »

Do you think that a two and a half year sentence would have been appropriate, or would a caution have done the job?

In my case, I think what he did was very deliberate. He was nobody’s boyfriend, he was a co-worker of me and my friend. He decided to get into bed beside somebody he thought was sleeping and feel them up. Hand inside underwear, remember. Two and a half years would be fair, yes. I was almost asleep but not quite so was able to halt it. What would he have done if I was asleep?

retro:electro · 05-02-2019 11:47pm

Dante7 wrote: »

I mentioned it in my post that you quoted. A caution would have sufficed on the legal side.

A caution is not sufficient punishment for someone who fails to grasp the fact they’ve done something wrong.

BBFAN · 05-02-2019 11:48pm

This kind of thread always makes me think that OP has obviously carried out the exact same act and is ****ting it in case they end up in jail. :rolleyes:

Dante7 · 05-02-2019 11:52pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

In my case, I think what he did was very deliberate. He was nobody’s boyfriend, he was a co-worker of me and my friend. He decided to get into bed beside somebody he thought was sleeping and feel them up. Hand inside underwear, remember. Two and a half years would be fair, yes. I was almost asleep but not quite so was able to halt it. What would he have done if I was asleep?

I'm sorry for what happened to you, but I very much disagree that sentencing that person to two and a half years imprisonment is an appropriate response.

batgoat · 05-02-2019 11:55pm

Dante7 wrote: »

I'm sorry for what happened to you, but I very much disagree that sentencing that person to two and a half years imprisonment is an appropriate response.

It's one year, likely less.. Most of sentence is suspended.

Dante7 · 05-02-2019 11:57pm

BBFAN wrote: »

This kind of thread always makes me think that OP has obviously carried out the exact same act and is ****ting it in case they end up in jail. :rolleyes:

Yeah, I've obviously sexually assaulted women and have upcoming court cases. Or maybe I have very personal experience of a paedophile raping girls and getting a lesser sentence and that is what annoyed me.

retro:electro · 06-02-2019 12:02am

I’m more worried about the fact he thought an appropriate defence for barging in the room like a lout and touching a sleeping girl’s vagina was “I thought she was my girlfriend”. News flash hun that still doesn’t make it okay.

Maybe that’s why the judge decided to lock him up for a year.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 06-02-2019 12:04am

Dante7 wrote: »

I'm sorry for what happened to you, but I very much disagree that sentencing that person to two and a half years imprisonment is an appropriate response.

To spell out exactly what happened - I was being coy - this guy got into bed beside me, put his hand inside my knickers and put his fingers inside my vagina. Only for a few seconds because I pushed him away and ran out of the room.

I think he thought I was asleep. I was very close to sleep - maybe less than a minute away - and with a few drinks on board, it would have been a heavy sleep. I doubt it would have stopped there. But even if it had stopped there, what I describe above is already an egregious violation. Like I said, I wasn’t traumatised, I was just very glad that I was awake and got away. But I think it’s still a pretty shocking thing for someone to do.

Like, what class of crime would you categorise it as yourself? Somebody intimately touching somebody else uninvited?

corner of hells · 06-02-2019 12:06am

retro:electro wrote: »

I’m more worried about the fact he thought an appropriate defence for barging in the room like a lout and touching a sleeping girl’s vagina was “I thought she was my girlfriend”. News flash hun that still doesn’t make it okay.

Maybe that’s why the judge decided to lock him up for a year.

Now , they try the old " I was drunk defence " too.

Mrsmum · 06-02-2019 12:07am

Even if a mistake, he has to take the consequences of his actions. So enough about him. My thoughts are with the completely innocent people who also suffered the consequences of his actions ie the girl he assaulted having that dreadful experience and also his fiancé who had her life turned upside down.

Gimme A Pound · 06-02-2019 12:08am

nullzero wrote: »

Of course not, he'd be lucky to have a woman touch his flute

Well yes, a lot of men (not women) do think that.

06-02-2019 12:10am

retro:electro wrote: »

A caution is not sufficient punishment for someone who fails to grasp the fact they’ve done something wrong.

If it's a genuine mistake, he didn't do anything wrong?

I once hugged and then kissed the top of my girlfriend's friend's head in a pub because they have the same hair. I didn't do anything wrong and no one thought I did.

On the other hand, if it wasn't a mistake, then the sentence is about right.

Gimme A Pound · 06-02-2019 12:10am

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

If she was a young wan, would that be different? These threads never seem to escape from whataboutery but specifying ‘aul wan’ adds another layer of peculiarity to the post

Agreed very much. Bizarre and stupid thing to say.

BBFAN wrote: »

This kind of thread always makes me think that OP has obviously carried out the exact same act and is ****ting it in case they end up in jail. :rolleyes:

Ah that's a bit much too. Quite a leap.

batgoat · 06-02-2019 12:11am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If it's a genuine mistake, he didn't do anything wrong?

I once kissed the back of my girlfriend's friend's head in a pub because they have the same hair. I didn't do anything wrong and no one thought I did.

On the other hand, if it wasn't a mistake, then the sentence is about right.

That's substantially different to touching a vagina of a person in bed. He showed no actual remorse when it clearly had a negative impact upon the victim.

Dante7 · 06-02-2019 12:11am

retro:electro wrote: »

I’m more worried about the fact he thought an appropriate defence for barging in the room like a lout and touching a sleeping girl’s vagina was “I thought she was my girlfriend”. News flash hun that still doesn’t make it okay.

Maybe that’s why the judge decided to lock him up for a year.

You think that if he got into bed with his fiancée and touched her vagina without her explicit consent that he should be jailed for one year?

PARlance · 06-02-2019 12:11am

retro:electro wrote: »

I’m more worried about the fact he thought an appropriate defence for barging in the room like a lout and touching a sleeping girl’s vagina was “I thought she was my girlfriend”. News flash hun that still doesn’t make it okay.

Maybe that’s why the judge decided to lock him up for a year.

My missus would be doing a few life sentences if that was the case!

Canis Lupus · 06-02-2019 12:13am

Deleted User wrote: »

If it's a genuine mistake, he didn't do anything wrong?

I once hugged and then kissed the top of my girlfriend's friend's head in a pub because they have the same hair. I didn't do anything wrong and no one thought I did.

On the other hand, if it wasn't a mistake, then the sentence is about right.

Does the impact it had on the victim have any bearing on whether a custodial sentence should be applied genuine mistake or not?

Dante7 · 06-02-2019 12:18am

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

To spell out exactly what happened - I was being coy - this guy got into bed beside me, put his hand inside my knickers and put his fingers inside my vagina. Only for a few seconds because I pushed him away and ran out of the room.

I think he thought I was asleep. I was very close to sleep - maybe less than a minute away - and with a few drinks on board, it would have been a heavy sleep. I doubt it would have stopped there. But even if it had stopped there, what I describe above is already an egregious violation. Like I said, I wasn’t traumatised, I was just very glad that I was awake and got away. But I think it’s still a pretty shocking thing for someone to do.

Like, what class of crime would you categorise it as yourself? Somebody intimately touching somebody else uninvited?

That's absolutely horrible, and I am in no way trying to excuse it or belittle it, and I am really sorry about what happened to you. I just don't think a custodial sentence is necessarily appropriate.

eagle eye · 06-02-2019 12:21am

No mention of any previous convictions so you have to take him at his word that he mistakingly got into the wrong bed. I feel that the whole sentence should have been suspended.

retro:electro · 06-02-2019 12:22am

Dante7 wrote: »

I just don't think a custodial sentence is necessarily appropriate.

Why? One of the purposes of prison is to reform your character, and while don’t know any other details it’s clear from the article that his attitude wasn’t conducive to a position of remorse, therefore a year inside having a think about that might do him the world of good. I would agree that a custodial sentence would be harsh had he acknowledged his wrongdoing but since his defence was basically “your honour, i was meant to force myself on my girlfriend instead” I have no sympathy and he sounds like a twat

Irish Guitarist · 06-02-2019 12:22am

Ann Rowland SC, defending, said the offence was completely out of character for her client and that he had led an otherwise “entirely blameless life”.

What a hero. He went most of his life without touching womens vaginas without permission.

He probably didn't realise the law allowing you one sexual assault when you reached the age of 32 had been changed. My heart goes out to him.

06-02-2019 12:25am

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Does the impact it had on the victim have any bearing on whether a custodial sentence should be applied genuine mistake or not?

No? The point of the law is to rehabilitate, not mete out punishment based on subjective effects. There are plenty of legal things we can do that can have a serious impact on someone, such as cheating etc.

I wish I could remember the thread years ago where this was debated on here. It wasn't about rape but it was about whether or not the severity of impact should have any effect on sentencing.

Harsh sentence

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