"How would you feel if your country was 'carved up'"?

Kermit.de.frog · 19-09-2018 5:54pm #1

Spit out my cup of tea when I read this in the FT in relation to the border with the north!

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https://twitter.com/GeorgeWParker/status/1042424760695775233

Silent Running · 19-09-2018 5:59pm

A golden moment for Leo. Hands up who thinks he will take it

Vowel Movement · 19-09-2018 6:02pm

Poor Turkey

Sal Butamol · 19-09-2018 6:03pm

She really is a fcuking prize idiot.

Harry Palmr · 19-09-2018 6:16pm

What am I missing here? Ireland is already carved up so as a point of hypocrisy it doesn't quite work. Mind you Poles might suppress a giggle given how their borders have moved and been redrafted in the last century.

Also if she wants no border checks then she knows what to do - hold a referendum and campaign to reverse the decision to leave.

McMurphy · 19-09-2018 6:19pm

Theresa is not the fizziest drink in the fridge, that's for sure.

Church on Tuesday · 19-09-2018 6:27pm

A woman who is so far out of her depth, It's actually pretty disturbing at this stage.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 19-09-2018 6:27pm

Many of the countries of the EU were carved up by the UK in cahoots with The USSR, USA, and their other allies.

mcmoustache · 19-09-2018 6:28pm

Surely that must be a joke of some sort? Not that I would be surprised. In my experience, the Brits in general are quite clueless about Ireland.

Junkyard Tom · 19-09-2018 6:28pm

So the partition of Ireland could end up causing the break-up of the UK?

The Rape of Lucretia · 19-09-2018 6:30pm

Id feel pretty bad. Still do. A hundred years later, so it runs deep.
Until Breunion restores the whole of Ireland to the United Kingdom, I will probably continue to feel that way.

screamer · 19-09-2018 6:30pm

Ireland being carved up again... And the blueshirts in power again...ah sure just give the whole lot back to England....

Zebra3 · 20-09-2018 3:32pm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Id feel pretty bad. Still do. A hundred years later, so it runs deep.
Until Breunion restores the whole of Ireland to the United Kingdom, I will probably continue to feel that way.

Dream on Rapey.

McMurphy · 20-09-2018 3:52pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Dream on Rapey.

I was secretly pleased that no one had taken the bait for so long.

Old TROL probably choking on his cucumber sangwiches now

FTA69 · 20-09-2018 4:04pm

May is a bloody fool, forever coming out with rubbish. She was jumping up and down over in Robben Island the other day about Nelson Mandela when back in the 80s she was deriding him as a terrorist. She’s absolutely dire. I can’t wait til she gets thrown out on her ear.

Deebles McBeebles · 20-09-2018 4:06pm

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I was secretly pleased that no one had taken the bait for so long.

Old TROL probably choking on his cucumber sangwiches now

I just liked the insult, "Rapey". I might have to commandeer that word.

jay0109 · 20-09-2018 4:08pm

She said that at the dinner yesterday eve and it was reported on the radio this morning. I'd say it's a fair guess that Leo let that pass and didn't take a golden opportunity to get a prize dig in.
I'm no fan of Charlie Haughey but I doubt he'd have let the opportunity pass

Your Face · 20-09-2018 4:39pm

Willful ignorance.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 20-09-2018 4:57pm

Ireland would have never entered May's mind when she said that. They don't think about us like we think about them. Ireland is a complete non entity to the average Brit.

lawred2 · 20-09-2018 5:01pm

Northern Ireland is akin to Gibraltar in the average Brit's eyes i.e. something that they don't think about

And TM is a very average Brit.

20-09-2018 5:03pm

What is wrong with what she said?

She is referring to the idea of Northern Ireland being a separate customs area from the rest of the UK, i.e. effectively the UK being carved up in a way.

I don't think she is including the Republic in this analogy.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 20-09-2018 5:11pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What is wrong with what she said?

She is referring to the idea of Northern Ireland being a separate customs area from the rest of the UK, i.e. effectively the UK being carved up in a way.

I don't think she is including the Republic in this analogy.

True but people in ROI will obviously view the comment in a different light.

That thought would never enter May's head as Ireland doesn't really register with these people.

OldMrBrennan83 · 20-09-2018 5:13pm

Lots of people still believe this country was.

MikeyTaylor · 20-09-2018 5:13pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

So the partition of Ireland could end up causing the break-up of the UK?

I think so.

banie01 · 20-09-2018 5:13pm

I am at a complete loss as to understand how the UK thinks it can leave a customs and trading union.
Whilst managing to retain tarrif and restriction free access to the customs union all whilst having some sort of magical Border between Eire and N.I!
Then thinking that they can sort out a trade deal at whilst ignoring the border!
Perhaps the Brexiteers are hoping for Hogwarts solution?
The magical border that will only admit Common travel area citizens while making the mudbloods I mean EU citizens queue for Customs?

lawred2 · 20-09-2018 5:15pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What is wrong with what she said?

She is referring to the idea of Northern Ireland being a separate customs area from the rest of the UK, i.e. effectively the UK being carved up in a way.

I don't think she is including the Republic in this analogy.

well that's rather obvious no?

The kinda thing Prime Minsters of the UK should be expected to know.. it's not like this island's experience with partition has been a peaceful one.

Anyone who doesn't see the problem is either a bit dull or wilfully ignorant.

daheff · 20-09-2018 5:16pm

FTA69 wrote: »

May is a bloody fool, forever coming out with rubbish. She was jumping up and down over in Robben Island the other day about Nelson Mandela when back in the 80s she was deriding him as a terrorist. She’s absolutely dire. I can’t wait til she gets thrown out on her ear.

I foresee it being around 29th March 2019- nobody (not even Boris) is stupid enough to want that job until after Brexit. After Brexit (when **** hits fan) everybody will claim to want to be the country's saviour & lead them into a new Dawn (while backstabbing & blaming theresa may all over the place).

20-09-2018 5:19pm

lawred2 wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

What is wrong with what she said?

She is referring to the idea of Northern Ireland being a separate customs area from the rest of the UK, i.e. effectively the UK being carved up in a way.

I don't think she is including the Republic in this analogy.

well that's rather obvious no?

The kinda thing Prime Minsters of the UK should be expected to know.. it's not like this island's experience with partition has been a peaceful one.

Anyone who doesn't see the problem is either a bit dull or wilfully ignorant.

Sorry but I must be dull and ignorant. What's wrong with her comment? She is not referring to partition on this island. She is talking about partition between NI and the island of Britain.

daheff · 20-09-2018 5:20pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What is wrong with what she said?

She is referring to the idea of Northern Ireland being a separate customs area from the rest of the UK, i.e. effectively the UK being carved up in a way.

I don't think she is including the Republic in this analogy.

the irony is unbelievable.

Gibraltar (from Spain)
Malvinas/Falklands (from Argentina)
Hong Kong (from China)
Iraq/Syria/Israel (from Turkish empire after WW1)

just a couple of quick carve ups by the uk (without even thinking too hard about it).

20-09-2018 5:20pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

What is wrong with what she said?

She is referring to the idea of Northern Ireland being a separate customs area from the rest of the UK, i.e. effectively the UK being carved up in a way.

I don't think she is including the Republic in this analogy.

True but people in ROI will obviously view the comment in a different light.

That thought would never enter May's head as Ireland doesn't really register with these people.

Yes but if people in ROI view the comment in a different light then that is their choice.
As I read it she is referring to NI being cut off from the rest of the UK in a legal/economic way.
Why should May care about ROI?

banie01 · 20-09-2018 5:22pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Sorry but I must be dull and ignorant. What's wrong with her comment? She is not referring to partition on this island. She is talking about partition between NI and the island of Britain.

Asking a group of Nations some of whom were "carved up" as a direct result of British policy over the course of their histories, how'd they'd feel if they were to be carved up?

It shows a distinct lack of cop on and a total lack of awareness of the situation Britain has made for itself.

20-09-2018 5:22pm

daheff wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

What is wrong with what she said?

She is referring to the idea of Northern Ireland being a separate customs area from the rest of the UK, i.e. effectively the UK being carved up in a way.

I don't think she is including the Republic in this analogy.

the irony is unbelievable.

Gibraltar (from Spain)
Malvinas/Falklands (from Argentina)
Hong Kong (from China)
Iraq/Syria/Israel (from Turkish empire after WW1)

just a couple of quick carve ups by the uk (without even thinking too hard about it).

And obviously you agree with May that carving up countries is wrong no?

20-09-2018 5:24pm

banie01 wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry but I must be dull and ignorant. What's wrong with her comment? She is not referring to partition on this island. She is talking about partition between NI and the island of Britain.

Asking a group of Nations some of whom were "carved up" as a direct result of British policy over the course of their histories, how'd they'd feel if they were to be carved up?

It shows a distinct lack of cop on and a total lack of awareness of the situation Britain has made for itself.

She's asking EU leaders. I don't know of too may EU countries that were carved up as a result of British policy. In our case we signed a treaty with Britain so our leaders at the time agreed to partition.

lawred2 · 20-09-2018 5:26pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry but I must be dull and ignorant. What's wrong with her comment? She is not referring to partition on this island. She is talking about partition between NI and the island of Britain.

indeed - and isn't partition awful. Poor old United Kingdom - who would do such a thing...

oh no wait

the United Kingdom - quite the illustrious history in carving up nations..

it's profited handsomely from such partitions and left an untold amount of misery in its wake..

As I said - either dull or willfully ignorant

jiltloop · 20-09-2018 5:26pm

Deleted User wrote: »

lawred2 wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

What is wrong with what she said?

She is referring to the idea of Northern Ireland being a separate customs area from the rest of the UK, i.e. effectively the UK being carved up in a way.

I don't think she is including the Republic in this analogy.

well that's rather obvious no?

The kinda thing Prime Minsters of the UK should be expected to know.. it's not like this island's experience with partition has been a peaceful one.

Anyone who doesn't see the problem is either a bit dull or wilfully ignorant.

Sorry but I must be dull and ignorant. What's wrong with her comment? She is not referring to partition on this island. She is talking about partition between NI and the island of Britain.

It's the inherent irony in the fact that she is trying to illicit sympathy with that comment while forgetting the fact that carving up a country is exactly what they did to Ireland.

jiltloop · 20-09-2018 5:31pm

Deleted User wrote: »

daheff wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

What is wrong with what she said?

She is referring to the idea of Northern Ireland being a separate customs area from the rest of the UK, i.e. effectively the UK being carved up in a way.

I don't think she is including the Republic in this analogy.

the irony is unbelievable.

Gibraltar (from Spain)
Malvinas/Falklands (from Argentina)
Hong Kong (from China)
Iraq/Syria/Israel (from Turkish empire after WW1)

just a couple of quick carve ups by the uk (without even thinking too hard about it).

And obviously you agree with May that carving up countries is wrong no?

This is what they voted for.

daheff · 20-09-2018 5:32pm

Deleted User wrote: »

And obviously you agree with May that carving up countries is wrong no?

I'm making the point that the UK has a lot of previous history in this regard (with out any care for the countries being carved up), so for them to be upset at the prospect is ironic.....maybe even Karma-esque

UK didnt give the countries being carved up any say in the matter....they just did what they wanted...might is right. So the shoe is now on the other foot and they aren't too happy about it.

20-09-2018 5:33pm

jiltloop wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

daheff wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

What is wrong with what she said?

She is referring to the idea of Northern Ireland being a separate customs area from the rest of the UK, i.e. effectively the UK being carved up in a way.

I don't think she is including the Republic in this analogy.

the irony is unbelievable.

Gibraltar (from Spain)
Malvinas/Falklands (from Argentina)
Hong Kong (from China)
Iraq/Syria/Israel (from Turkish empire after WW1)

just a couple of quick carve ups by the uk (without even thinking too hard about it).

And obviously you agree with May that carving up countries is wrong no?

This is what they voted for.

They didn't vote for Brexit so that NI would have a separate customs union. Simply false.

banie01 · 20-09-2018 5:36pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

She's asking EU leaders. I don't know of too may EU countries that were carved up as a result of British policy. In our case we signed a treaty with Britain so our leaders at the time agreed to partition.

Go a little further back than the "EU" and British policy has left a trail of partition across Europe.
From the rise of the Avengin empire and 100 years war to Henry VIII's French and Italian adventures adventures, the 30yrs war, The Dutch Wars, The War of the Austrian Succession, The Napoleonic Wars and the Concert of Europe, The support of Ottoman Empire, The genesis of the Balkan issue, the birth of Gunboat diplomacy, The Palestine mandate, the Balfour Declaration, The "Nation's" created out of the end of WW1, the dismissal of those nationalist tendencies of the Balkan nations to create "Yugoslavia", Malta, Egypt, all former British possessions in Africa.
Germany.

Britain has a long and varies history of sowing dissension and gave rise to the definitive system of divide and rule...
The fact that they would choose to defend their Brexit aims and position with a "don't carve us up" claim, would strike any student of history as ironic in the extreme.

banie01 · 20-09-2018 5:38pm

jiltloop wrote: »

This is what they voted for.

And indeed what May agreed to with acquiescence to the EU's stated backstop.

lawred2 · 20-09-2018 5:42pm

banie01 wrote: »

Go a little further back than the "EU" and British policy has left a trail of partition across Europe.
From the rise of the Avengin empire and 100 years war to Henry VIII's French and Italian adventures adventures, the 30yrs war, The Dutch Wars, The War of the Austrian Succession, The Napoleonic Wars and the Concert of Europe, The support of Ottoman Empire, The genesis of the Balkan issue, the birth of Gunboat diplomacy, The Palestine mandate, the Balfour Declaration, The "Nation's" created out of the end of WW1, the dismissal of those nationalist tendencies of the Balkan nations to create "Yugoslavia", Malta, Egypt, all former British possessions in Africa.
Germany.

Britain has a long and varies history of sowing dissension and gave rise to the definitive system of divide and rule...
The fact that they would choose to defend their Brexit aims and position with a "don't carve us up" claim, would strike any student of history as ironic in the extreme.

and offensive really

20-09-2018 5:42pm

banie01 wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

She's asking EU leaders. I don't know of too may EU countries that were carved up as a result of British policy. In our case we signed a treaty with Britain so our leaders at the time agreed to partition.

Go a little further back than the "EU" and British policy has left a trail of partition across Europe.
From the rise of the Avengin empire and 100 years war to Henry VIII's French and Italian adventures adventures, the 30yrs war, The Dutch Wars, The War of the Austrian Succession, The Napoleonic Wars and the Concert of Europe, The support of Ottoman Empire, The genesis of the Balkan issue, the birth of Gunboat diplomacy, The Palestine mandate, the Balfour Declaration, The "Nation's" created out of the end of WW1, the dismissal of those nationalist tendencies of the Balkan nations to create "Yugoslavia", Malta, Egypt, all former British possessions in Africa.
Germany.

Britain has a long and varies history of sowing dissension and gave rise to the definitive system of divide and rule...
The fact that they would choose to defend their Brexit aims and position with a "don't carve us up" claim, would strike any student of history as ironic in the extreme.

So she is not entitled to try to prevent a carve-up of the UK? She is the prime minister and she needs to act in her countries interest.

banie01 · 20-09-2018 5:48pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So she is not entitled to try to prevent a carve-up of the UK? She is the prime minister and she needs to act in her countries interest.

Britain joined a club with a rule book.
Britain ratified the GFA, and enacted its provisions.
There is no way to reconcile leaving the club, with keeping the GFA.

Britain and in particular Brexiteers made a complete balls up of communicating what "Brexit" actually means to their electorate.

The vote took place in at atmosphere of disinformation and jingoism.
They can have Brexit, they can leave the EU without a deal...
They can't do either of those things without repudiating the GFA by installing a border on the Island.
Unless you have a suggestion as to how the magic border would work?

20-09-2018 5:55pm

banie01 wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

So she is not entitled to try to prevent a carve-up of the UK? She is the prime minister and she needs to act in her countries interest.

Britain joined a club with a rule book.
Britain ratified the GFA, and enacted its provisions.
There is no way to reconcile leaving the club, with keeping the GFA.

Britain and in particular Brexiteers made a complete balls up of communicating what "Brexit" actually means to their electorate.

The vote took place in at atmosphere of disinformation and jingoism.
They can have Brexit, they can leave the EU without a deal...
They can't do either of those things without repudiating the GFA by installing a border on the Island.
Unless you have a suggestion as to how the magic border would work?

I'm simply trying to understand the fuss over Theresa May's quote.

As far as the border goes I don't have a magic solution. I think there needs to be some deal worked out that involves compromise on all sides. I believe business interests will put enough pressure on all politicians to get a deal done by Oct/Nov.
In terms of misinformation and lies on Brexit is concerned, the lies and bullsh*t were being spouted by both sides in the debate, make no mistake.

lawred2 · 20-09-2018 5:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm simply trying to understand the fuss over Theresa May's quote.

As far as the border goes I don't have a magic solution. I think there needs to be some deal worked out that involves compromise on all sides. I believe business interests will put enough pressure on all politicians to get a deal done by Oct/Nov.
In terms of misinformation and lies on Brexit is concerned, the lies and bullsh*t were being spouted by both sides in the debate, make no mistake.

yeah it's been laid out multiple times to you...

it's your choice to blithely ignore what's been said directly to you

daheff · 20-09-2018 5:59pm

Deleted User wrote: »

So she is not entitled to try to prevent a carve-up of the UK? She is the prime minister and she needs to act in her countries interest.

Nobody said shes not entitled to try to stop it. Its the reason given that has people scratching their head in disbelief. UK has done it for centuries, but when its threatened to the UK theres is a "please sir, don't carve us up as its not nice" excuse used.

riffmongous · 20-09-2018 6:04pm

daheff wrote: »

Nobody said shes not entitled to try to stop it. Its the reason given that has people scratching their head in disbelief. UK has done it for centuries, but when its threatened to the UK theres is a "please sir, don't carve us up as its not nice" excuse used.

It's the sheer gobsmacking ignorance of it

Junkyard Tom · 20-09-2018 6:05pm

It's not a carve-up - it's an attempt to prevent a re-carve-up of Ireland.

bear1 · 20-09-2018 6:17pm

Just when you think this **** show of a saga couldn't get worse.
I'm actually curious, is there at all any chance of their being a physical border on this island?
I can't see how it can be avoided at this stage..

20-09-2018 6:46pm

lawred2 wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm simply trying to understand the fuss over Theresa May's quote.

As far as the border goes I don't have a magic solution. I think there needs to be some deal worked out that involves compromise on all sides. I believe business interests will put enough pressure on all politicians to get a deal done by Oct/Nov.
In terms of misinformation and lies on Brexit is concerned, the lies and bullsh*t were being spouted by both sides in the debate, make no mistake.

yeah it's been laid out multiple times to you...

it's your choice to blithely ignore what's been said directly to you

As I understand it, the reason people are outraged about it is because the UK carved up countries in history, so it's ironic that the UK should try to prevent itself being carved up.

What do you expect her to say? "Sure carve us up lads, and have a nice glass of chianti and some farva beans while you're at it Mr. Juncker!"

corks finest · 20-09-2018 6:50pm

It is 26/6

"How would you feel if your country was 'carved up'"?

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