Corruption in charities

AndrewJRenko · 13-04-2021 11:06am

mariaalice wrote: »

You picked a very minor RTE personality who may have commented a fraud in the 1980s as an answer to this thread?

.

Lies and innuendo travel at the speed of light before the truth has ever got out bed.
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/mr-charm-school-1.85444?mode=amp

touts · 13-04-2021 11:16am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Did no one report it five years ago?

You couldn't be doing that. Sure look at all the good work he was doing. And all that unusual expenditure and his lifestyle. Maybe he genuinely earned the money.

Irish people are quick to talk but slow to report.

AndrewJRenko · 13-04-2021 11:32am

touts wrote: »

You couldn't be doing that. Sure look at all the good work he was doing. And all that unusual expenditure and his lifestyle. Maybe he genuinely earned the money.

Irish people are quick to talk but slow to report.

Maybe he won the lotto? Maybe his elderly aunt died and left him a house? Maybe he borrowed heavily?

Unusual expenditure does not equate to fraud.

YFlyer · 13-04-2021 12:20pm

mariaalice wrote: »

You picked a very minor RTE personality who may have commented a fraud in the 1980s as an answer to this thread?

.

Yeah corruption in charity.

corner of hells · 13-04-2021 12:34pm

YFlyer wrote: »

Yeah corruption in charity.

Its fairly widely accepted that what you are talking about has never been anything but an urban myth.

seamus · 13-04-2021 12:36pm

humberklog wrote: »

So GOAL from Friday lunchtime were able to assess the damage done in at least 4 massive countries- a huge tract of land and saw what was needed.
Then they were able to script a 30 seconds ad detailing the issues.
Hire a studio and staff.
Hire a voice actor.
Edit and package the ad ready for promotion.
Secure some of the most expensive and sought after ad slots on the national broadcaster's programmes.

All that in one and a half days.

Some charities are super efficient. Surprisingly super efficient.

While I appreciate what you're getting at here, there's actually not a whole lot surprising here when you have an organisation which runs ads on any kind of semi-frequent basis.
The script for the ad is pretty simple. They could easily have written it on Wednesday and just put the finishing touches to it on Thursday or Friday.

Getting access to a studio and a voiceover artist is surprisingly quick when you know the process. Lots of PR firms offer packages of these; they'll have a VO artist in studio two hours later doing your ad. They're a pro and it's 30 seconds long so that takes no more than half an hour.
Engineer cleans it up and produces it in about an hour. You get back an audio file, review it, pick the stations you want to play it on, and they send it on. Bingo-bango.

It's all quite formulaic.

Some of the companies who run ads on a constant basis (like Tesco) will often have the V.O. artist record their piece at lunchtime and the ad is being played on every station by tea time.

You're right to an extent. Bill & Mary's dog rescue would take weeks to put all the pieces together.
The fact that GOAL did this goes to show that they have the connections and the experience in place to get it done. And therefore just how much of their donated money they spend on gathering more donations. But I wouldn't read any more malice into it than that.

AndrewJRenko · 13-04-2021 12:39pm

YFlyer wrote: »

Yeah corruption in charity.

You're spreading false rumours about a dead man. Have a little bit of decency, would ya?

Tar.Aldarion · 13-04-2021 12:56pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Is this an assumption, or have you actually run the numbers against the Irish charities working on overseas aid?

If an Irish charity was good enough to be recommended as one of the top charities in the world, they would have been found/recommended by now:

Our Process for Identifying Top Charities
Finding eligible charities: We have conducted extensive searches for charities that focus on our priority programs, both by talking to individuals and organizations working in the field as well as via Internet research. We will invite promising charities to apply for a GiveWell recommendation. We are also frequently contacted by charities looking to apply for a recommendation.

Examining charities: Our intensive evaluation process aims to deeply and critically question the case for the charity's impact, and lay out what we see as the strengths and weaknesses publicly. More details on our review process

Following up: We follow up intensively with our top charities over time, and consider this one of the major arguments in favor of supporting such charities. Because our recommendation directs substantial donations to a charity, top charities are generally willing to engage substantively with us and help us deepen our understanding of their activities and progress over time.

Crucially, we believe — and make clear to our top charities that we believe — in sharing both positive and negative developments, and we have written extensively in the past about unanticipated struggles faced by top charities. See, for example, our series of updates on VillageReach.

For more on our process and the reasoning behind it, see our process page describing our process for analyzing and recommending top charities for donors.

There has never been any charity evaluator I have seen that has recommended an Irish charity. If there are any that are worthy they should apply to be a recommendation as they would get hundreds of millions for doing so, I imagine if there were good enough in this sense they'd have been mentioned to any of the evaluators to look at.

AndrewJRenko · 13-04-2021 1:20pm

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

If an Irish charity was good enough to be recommended as one of the top charities in the world, they would have been found/recommended by now:

There has never been any charity evaluator I have seen that has recommended an Irish charity. If there are any that are worthy they should apply to be a recommendation as they would get hundreds of millions for doing so, I imagine if there were good enough in this sense they'd have been mentioned to any of the evaluators to look at.

So that's a no then, you/they haven't run the numbers of every Irish charity.

Are you certain that no Irish charity, maybe SVP,can beat or match the 17% off the top costs for cash distribution, as seen with one of their recommended charities?

dublin49 · 13-04-2021 1:21pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Did no one report it five years ago?

like you said in a later post , he could have won the lotto,knowledge of a crime and proof can be 2 different things.Look at Haughey,everyone suspected he had dubious financial arrangements but he went 20 years without anyone laying a glove on him,and when Vincent Browne tried ,the stonewalling was absolute.
Major Irish charities like ,Goal,Bothar ,CRC,Console and more have undermined the trust I have in the charity industry in this country and one of more depressing aspects is there does not seem to be a major repercussions for the people responsible for this situation.

Tar.Aldarion · 13-04-2021 4:01pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So that's a no then, you/they haven't run the numbers of every Irish charity.

Are you certain that no Irish charity, maybe SVP,can beat or match the 17% off the top costs for cash distribution, as seen with one of their recommended charities?

I have run the numbers on no charity, I am not the professional charity evaluator, they are.
That is also only one facet of many of being an effective charity.

SVP are already behind with just a skim of their page but I'm sure Givewell will have evaluated one of the biggest charities already and could give a good answer if asked:

Donations that are given locally are spent locally.

Bellbottoms · 13-04-2021 6:14pm

YFlyer wrote: »

Bunny Carr.

I have.no idea who Bunny Carr is. And I suspect I am not alone. Any chance of some context?

Or some commentry on it?

dublin49 · 13-04-2021 6:27pm

Bellbottoms wrote: »

I have.no idea who Bunny Carr is. And I suspect I am not alone. Any chance of some context?

Or some commentry on it?

he fronted a popular quiz show back in late 60s early 70s and also set up Carr communiciations that provided training for people in the media including politicans,he fronted a charity drive and his voice over on the appeal was was along the the lines of "send your money to me Bunny Carr c/o xxxx Charity " on foot of that there were allegations that maybe people took him literally and sent their donations directly to him.I think it all stemmed from the catchphrase ,send your money to me....

AndrewJRenko · 13-04-2021 6:29pm

Bellbottoms wrote: »

I have.no idea who Bunny Carr is. And I suspect I am not alone. Any chance of some context?

Or some commentry on it?

Addressed in the article I linked above

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/mr-charm-school-1.85444?mode=amp

He's spreading lies and innuendo about a dead man.

Viscount Aggro · 13-04-2021 6:57pm

I would deal with charities the Michael O'Leary way...

Go in and cut everything by half. Replace all the senior executives, and board members
with voluntary people. I know loads of retired people who would do this.
I could do it, and I have street creds too.

Everything else would get outsourced, maximise the funds going to the actual cause.

AndrewJRenko · 13-04-2021 9:39pm

Serious concerns emerging from the investigation at Bothar

https://m.independent.ie/business/farming/news/farming-news/investigation-found-ex-bothar-ceo-paid-himself-8000-extra-in-2018-and-2019-40307173.html

AndrewJRenko · 13-04-2021 9:42pm

Viscount Aggro wrote: »

I would deal with charities the Michael O'Leary way...

Go in and cut everything by half. Replace all the senior executives, and board members
with voluntary people. I know loads of retired people who would do this.
I could do it, and I have street creds too.

Everything else would get outsourced, maximise the funds going to the actual cause.

All board members are volunteers. Who exactly are these senior executives waiting to take on stressful, demanding full time roles with significant personal exposure as volunteers?

Outsourcing tends not to work well in homeless services, disability services.

corner of hells · 13-04-2021 10:12pm

Viscount Aggro wrote: »

I would deal with charities the Michael O'Leary way...

Go in and cut everything by half. Replace all the senior executives, and board members
with voluntary people. I know loads of retired people who would do this.
I could do it, and I have street creds too.

Everything else would get outsourced, maximise the funds going to the actual cause.

Outsource what exactly?

humberklog · 13-04-2021 10:55pm

Bellbottoms wrote: »

I have.no idea who Bunny Carr is. And I suspect I am not alone. Any chance of some context?

Or some commentry on it?

Ah stop the lights!

dublin49 · 13-04-2021 11:03pm

humberklog wrote: »

Ah stop the lights!

old timer time for your horlicks

anewme · 14-04-2021 7:11am

humberklog wrote: »

Ah stop the lights!

Not to mention Norman's musical clues.

Floppybits · 19-04-2021 2:37pm

The Former Bothar CEO has been found dead at his home. Tragic all round.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40269752.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

gmisk · 02-06-2021 2:28pm

Former Bóthar CEO seeks free legal aid for misappropriated funds court case https://jrnl.ie/5455590

Absolutely zero shame

13-08-2021 5:26pm

Not many details but ICHH might be the next charity in a bit of bother.

"In recent days, serious matters have come to the attention of the board. "

https://ichh.ie/statement-by-the-board-of-inner-city-helping-homeless/

Rket4000 · 13-08-2021 7:01pm

They've hired an independent senior counsel? Who's paying for that?

LollipopJimmy · 13-08-2021 7:20pm

Anthony Flynn has made his twitter private, must not want to deal with any questions and an event they had planned for tonight is cancelled.

Spanish Eyes · 13-08-2021 7:28pm

All this internal investigation and SC involvement has to stop. Damage limitation I suppose.

First stop = Gardai, let them investigate any breach of the law, end of story.

Agis_IV · 13-08-2021 7:35pm

Saintly do gooders rarely do good, as true in Irish charities as it is in Irish politics. Help your neighbors and your community. Apollo House etc are effectively a grift. A 411 scam for gullible strivers who more concerned with social media karma than helping a person, family or community down on its luck.

lawred2 · 13-08-2021 7:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/116872873#Comment_116872873

... Ooops misread

Big Gerry · 13-08-2021 7:44pm

There is no need for people running charities to be corrupt when they get massive 6 figure salaries.

https://www.thesun.ie/news/6473057/charities-staff-value-study-ceo-salary/

Spanish Eyes · 13-08-2021 7:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117749257#Comment_117749257

We don't know if the suspended employee was involved in fraud, it could be other things.

enricoh · 13-08-2021 8:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117748709#Comment_117748709

The other 99 homeless charities will be able to pick up the slack- fear not!

Faugheen · 13-08-2021 8:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117749203#Comment_117749203

They are

13-08-2021 8:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117749177#Comment_117749177

Thats unusual. Him and David Hall are running it so I'd expect to hear from him soon enough.

Flynn is normally fearless at calling out the bs of others and saying what needs to be done.

13-08-2021 8:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117749108#Comment_117749108

Probably the charity. I suppose when you find yourself in a hole it's best to get good advice on how to get out.

Spanish Eyes · 13-08-2021 8:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117749396#Comment_117749396

Good. I didn't see any reference to the Gardai in the initial reports, but you are right, the Gardai are involved.

Darc19 · 13-08-2021 8:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117749108#Comment_117749108

Most likely it will be free.

Plenty of senior counsel will do pro bono work. - it's good for referrals / good pr.

Whilst it's a high profile charity, income is fairly small and most work seems to be voluntary.

I suspect David hall is seething over this as he would have very high standards.

dublin49 · 13-08-2021 10:36pm

if you give money to strangers without strings and little or no validation on the basis they use it wisely don't be too surprised if their interpretation of that instruction is different from your own.

14-08-2021 8:55pm

Corruption in charities is not always about the charity itself.

Celebrities, such as Jimmy Saville, use charity as a means to boost their public relations profile. You end up with a system where people end up getting away with inappropriate activity because many in the celebrity sphere are too scared to challenge someone who is associated with so much charity.

That, in itself, is a distorted version of corruption very much linked to charity.

AndrewJRenko · 14-08-2021 9:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117755098#Comment_117755098

You're comparing different times rather than different sectors. Saville and others were back in the 80s and 90s. All charities involved with children work with painfully stringent rules about not being alone with children and garda vetting and more.

14-08-2021 9:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117755163#Comment_117755163

Modern celebrities do exactly the same thing.

They do charity not because they care about the charity, but because of how positive it makes them look / get work on TV for further exposure.

AndrewJRenko · 15-08-2021 12:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117755252#Comment_117755252

There's a bit of a difference between getting good pr and abusing kids.

mondeo · 15-08-2021 1:37pm

I use to work for a Taxi company years back when I was younger, I was a telephonist and we had one well known charity who had an account with us. They would all be calling up friday and saturday nights looking for Taxis to and from their piss ups.... Nice to know someones donation is going towards getting them to the Pub ! This was going back 2005' but I am sure it still goes on today. They would also give their relations permission to use the account so they were all going to the pub on peoples donations.

I have never donated money to a charity since I seen this going on, this was at the time probably the biggest charity in Ireland. F them....

AndrewJRenko · 15-08-2021 2:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117757371#Comment_117757371

If you're sure it still goes on today, please report them to the Charities Regulator urgently.

dublin49 · 15-08-2021 3:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117757470#Comment_117757470

And thats why corruption in charities is so easy and I suspect prelevant,you give a small donation ,you have little or no interest in seeing where that donation ends up and are almost certainly not going to follow up any abuse you become aware of ,rather you resolve to never give to that charity or perhaps any charity again. I have been around the houses before on this and obviously expect to hear the one bad apple argument etc.What the Bothar case illustrates is if the fraudelent intention is there fraud can go on for ridiculously long periods of time.

elperello · 15-08-2021 3:56pm

If you are inclined to be charitable and wish to give to a good cause you can do your due diligence and pick a well run charity to donate to.

There are many which you will find worthy of support that are managed by decent people at both Board and staff level.

Having said that the rogue operators should of course be put out of business because they are not only defrauding their donors but are also making life difficult for those that follow the rules.

dublin49 · 15-08-2021 5:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117757944#Comment_117757944

in reality if you are asked for a donation how many people have either the time or inclination to drill down into complicated company reports before handing over their 10 or 20 euros offering.What you say is possible but not practiable for most .My main issue with charities is the financial relationship is practically if not unique.You hand over money on trust and get nothing in return .All other financial transactions involve a two way process,you pay for goods or services and receive something tangible in return,therefore if you are unhappy with the transaction you will know immediately unlike a charitable donation where it might take years for fraud to become apparent.

dudley72 · 15-08-2021 8:13pm

The days of giving money to charities is over, most don’t care either as they are sitting on huge donations from the givernment so the normal person is actually donating all the time.

The money given to them is a tiny percent given to the needy. The number of scandals with charities is increasing but nothing happens after it, they just walk away and a few days later out looking for money again

its is a terrible thing to say all this, you would hope a charity would be trying to do good but it doesn’t seem to be the case

Floppybits · 16-08-2021 9:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117757944#Comment_117757944

The problem is a lot of the rogue operators are the big charities and not some guy going around in hi-vis vest, a bucket and pretending to be collecting for a charity. Not saying that doesn't happen but if you look a Rehab, Bothair, Console all supposedly reputable charities getting state money and all have been caught up in scandal and I am sure I have missed a couple of there.

The only charity that I will give too and it is because I have seen the work they do is St Francis Hospice, the care, compassion and dignity they give to people both family and patients is second to none.

dublin49 · 16-08-2021 5:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117760654#Comment_117760654

I am sure St Francis Hospice is doing a great job but it should not be run by a charity.These services are a fundamental part of a Health System and should be provided by the Health Service.

Corruption in charities

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