The truth about the Irish and the English

jetsonx · 01-03-2021 12:56pm #1

Anybody foreigner reading internet forums would probably think that the Irish and English can't stand each other.

However, like a lot of things in life, what happens on the internet and what happens in real life is totally different.

When the Irish are in a room full of Europeans, the Irish and the English gravitate towards each other paperclips to a magnet. Over, the years I've seen this countless times in workplaces, conferences and other events. The fact is the Irish don't generally gravitate towards Sylvia from Stuttgart or Kurt from Klagenfurt. After just a few minutes, they will be talking to Nigel and Sally from Slough. And a few weeks ago, the great Tommy Gorman mentioned this phenomenon as well from this his time in Brussels. The Irish contingent working for the EU were not hanging out with other Eurofolk but they were hanging out with Brits.

So despite all the negative talk about Brexit, I think it finally time for the Irish to admit that culturally we are much closer to Britain than any other country in Euroland and they might actually like each other.

biko · 01-03-2021 1:04pm

I agree that the Irish (north and south) and English usually get on good, along with Welsh and Scots.
There may be some slagging after a few drinks, and even some fisticuffs, but in general we get along.

EmmetSpiceland · 01-03-2021 1:06pm

biko wrote: »

...but in general we get along.

We, as in swedes?

dxhound2005 · 01-03-2021 1:07pm

Not Nigel surely?

Oranage2 · 01-03-2021 1:10pm

I think anyone over the age of 16 realizes this. I live outside Ireland and Irish people gravitate to the British expats. We have much more in common to brits then the likes of Americans and Canadians

FTA69 · 01-03-2021 1:11pm

English and Irish people do have a lot in common although they’d annoy you the odd time with the ignorance over their own history and the waffling they sometimes do about it.

There are cultural differences between nationalities at times but class plays an equally important role at times I think. I’ll get on far better on the whole with Cockneys than I will with D4 rugger types.

fryup · 01-03-2021 1:15pm

the english never remember the irish never forget

murpho999 · 01-03-2021 1:27pm

I really think it depends.

I wouldn't think it's automatic that Irish would gravitate towards English people like the OP says.
There's definitely no hatred there but we are different with different outlooks.
Talking about gravitating towards Germans is unfair as there is a language and cultural issue that is a barrier but I think Irish would have no problem with Europeans if communication is not a problem.

Allinall · 01-03-2021 1:31pm

Surely Nigel would have to be from Northampton or Norwich?

Ash.J.Williams · 01-03-2021 1:43pm

England is the bigger country and therefore is under no obligation to learn our history nor care about it and why should they.

Australia doesn't care about NZ either but NZ has lots of opinions on them.

It's a weakness on our part

Trigger Happy · 01-03-2021 1:47pm

Try making small talk to a German about the latest goings on in Corrie....

vriesmays · 01-03-2021 1:57pm

The English are led by graduates of Oxford and Eaton; the Irish are led by schoolteachers.

bennyineire · 01-03-2021 1:59pm

vriesmays wrote: »

The English are led by graduates of Oxford and Eaton; the Irish are led by schoolteachers.

Which is better?

At the moment I think it's pretty clear TBH

crackity_jones · 01-03-2021 2:02pm

My experience with the English chimes very much with what the OP says. I've been to conferences and training courses all over the place along with the usual travel and for me they are the people we have more in common with than any other. As jetsonx says, there's what is presented to us by the commentariat and there is what each of us experiences in everyday life. One can have feck all in common with the other.

Sure, the shared language is a bridge to easy communication but over the years it has become more and more obvious to me that language is only one part of it. We really are a very different people from those in Germany or say, France. But then when you look at how their institutions are organised and law operates that really shouldn't be too much of a shock. We'll socialise, work and compete with them like any other but those differences are always there.

One thing I do like about the Brits is how they generally don't give a damn what the world thinks about them. As fryup says above, a lot of those historical disagreements and clashes (there's been a few) tend to fly over their head if they even register with them. We tend to have the opposite attitude. Both sides could probably work on that but I doubt it will happen.

dublin49 · 01-03-2021 2:11pm

For anyone 50/ 60's or more we were indoctrinated from the cradle to hate the brits by the Christian Brothers ,I would imagine History is taught in a more measured way nowadays and the in built chip on our shoulder may diminish as older generations disappear.I think there will always be a resentment which will be partly to do with our shared History and partly to do with their perceived superior view of themselves.I also think most Irish are comfortable are comfortable with feeling a negative sentiment towards the British state and generally getting on really well with most British people.

No again Danni · 01-03-2021 2:14pm

They are like two brothers who hate each other.

CardBordWindow · 01-03-2021 2:17pm

But that's just because Kurt from Klagenfurt is a prick.

01-03-2021 3:30pm

jetsonx wrote: »

Anybody foreigner reading internet forums would probably think that the Irish and English can't stand each other.

However, like a lot of things in life, what happens on the internet and what happens in real life is totally different.

When the Irish are in a room full of Europeans, the Irish and the English gravitate towards each other paperclips to a magnet. Over, the years I've seen this countless times in workplaces, conferences and other events. The fact is the Irish don't generally gravitate towards Sylvia from Stuttgart or Kurt from Klagenfurt. After just a few minutes, they will be talking to Nigel and Sally from Slough. And a few weeks ago, the great Tommy Gorman mentioned this phenomenon as well from this his time in Brussels. The Irish contingent working for the EU were not hanging out with other Eurofolk but they were hanging out with Brits.

So despite all the negative talk about Brexit, I think it finally time for the Irish to admit that culturally we are much closer to Britain than any other country in Euroland and they might actually like each other.

you would be very hard pushed to find either a Nigel or a Sally from Slough.

gourcuff · 01-03-2021 4:34pm

its clear post brexit that britain's influence on Ireland will gradually reduce.
We definitely need to improve our language skills to help us mix better with our other european friends, will also help for holidays to south america etc..

Snickers Man · 01-03-2021 4:38pm

Of course.

Mark Francois? Great bloke!
Jacob Rees Mogg? The sort of lad who's great craic down the pub with a pint of plain and a packet of Tayto inside him.
Priti Patel? I would

No need for the straitjacket, Doctor. I'll come quietly!!

Your Face · 01-03-2021 4:46pm

I tend to avoid the Irish and the UK natives when abroad.

Feisar · 01-03-2021 5:43pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

Of course.

Mark Francois? Great bloke!
Jacob Rees Mogg? The sort of lad who's great craic down the pub with a pint of plain and a packet of Tayto inside him.
Priti Patel? I would

No need for the straitjacket, Doctor. I'll come quietly!!

Is she the one that suggested starving us out or some such?

Marcusm · 01-03-2021 6:24pm

biko wrote: »

I agree that the Irish (north and south) and English usually get on good, along with Welsh and Scots.
There may be some slagging after a few drinks, and even some fisticuffs, but in general we get along.

I’d go so far as to say many in the Republic would get on better with the perfidious English than the (odd and dogy) Norners.

Marcusm · 01-03-2021 6:29pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

Of course.

Mark Francois? Great bloke!
Jacob Rees Mogg? The sort of lad who's great craic down the pub with a pint of plain and a packet of Tayto inside him.
Priti Patel? I would

No need for the straitjacket, Doctor. I'll come quietly!!

The thing is that Jacob Rees Mogg is not actually that odd for an Englishman. There are so many of his type with the overly affected accent, trust me I worked with lots of them. Most would have a more limited pedigree than JRM.

Marcusm · 01-03-2021 6:31pm

Aegir wrote: »

you would be very hard pushed to find either a Nigel or a Sally from Slough.

On the contrary, Nigel as an aspirational name would be very Slough. It would not be a common name amongst the pupils of Slough Grammar, however.

Zebra3 · 01-03-2021 6:32pm

Feisar wrote: »

Is she the one that suggested starving us out or some such?

Which is quite incredible given the millions the Tans starved to death in India where her family are originally from.

Random Account · 01-03-2021 6:36pm

I like the English/British. Only other country with our sense of humour in my opinion. Americans are different and mainland Europeans are way more professional and serious in conversation I feel.

bigar · 01-03-2021 6:46pm

jetsonx wrote: »

Anybody foreigner reading internet forums would probably think that the Irish and English

I can testify that they are not. Many do not even know they are different countries. I was recently asked by a friend how we are dealing with not being in the EU anymore.

simongurnick · 01-03-2021 6:48pm

I live in Canada and work for one of the banks here. Was at this big conference once and noticed one of the fellas at our table was an English lad. Once the first coffee break hit, everyone is milling around talking awkwardly or trying to network.
I make a bee line for the English lad with one thought in my mind, a good chat about the footie. After exchanging a few pleasantries and the usual "hows the weather" chit chat, I throw in my opener. "So what football team do you support?"
Yer man answers " I don't really watch football".
My face dropped and I don't even think I registered what he said. I was like, "sorry, what??". He repeats it and I just go "oh, right", stare off in to the distance for a few seconds, then make my excuses and leave.
Still haven't got over it.

dxhound2005 · 01-03-2021 7:20pm

jetsonx wrote: »

Anybody foreigner reading internet forums would probably think that the Irish and English can't stand each other.

However, like a lot of things in life, what happens on the internet and what happens in real life is totally different.

When the Irish are in a room full of Europeans, the Irish and the English gravitate towards each other paperclips to a magnet. Over, the years I've seen this countless times in workplaces, conferences and other events. The fact is the Irish don't generally gravitate towards Sylvia from Stuttgart or Kurt from Klagenfurt. After just a few minutes, they will be talking to Nigel and Sally from Slough. And a few weeks ago, the great Tommy Gorman mentioned this phenomenon as well from this his time in Brussels. The Irish contingent working for the EU were not hanging out with other Eurofolk but they were hanging out with Brits.

So despite all the negative talk about Brexit, I think it finally time for the Irish to admit that culturally we are much closer to Britain than any other country in Euroland and they might actually like each other.

Another way to interpret this extensive research is that the Continentals are very clannish and they snub the Brits and the Irish. Forcing them to talk among themselves. I bet the Germans and the Austrians go into their own little huddle and ignore any attempts at conversation from anyone else.

Feisar · 01-03-2021 7:28pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Which is quite incredible given the millions the Tans starved to death in India where her family are originally from.

She's obviously as English as English comes now. It's funny the way different people operate. I've various cousins in England. I've one that's second generation, a proper Englishman, others are 4th generation and are pure plastic paddies.

Brian? · 01-03-2021 7:37pm

I find I gravitate more towards the Scots or Welsh.

A lot of English people I meet are blindly ignorant. The amount of times I've heard "you know back in the UK" followed by something we should have in common. They appear stunned when I point out I'm not from the UK. The Scots or Welsh never make that mistake, despite being products of the same Education system.

I've met plenty of English people I liked, but even then they come out with some whoppers sometimes.

For some reason I don't understand I make a lot of friends from Latin America. I find people from Mexico, Chile, Bolivia and Argentina very easy to get along with.

the purple tin · 01-03-2021 7:42pm

CardBordWindow wrote: »

But that's just because Kurt from Klagenfurt is a prick.

You take that back! Kurt is a gentleman :mad:

trashcan · 01-03-2021 7:46pm

Marcusm wrote: »

The thing is that Jacob Rees Mogg is not actually that odd for an Englishman. There are so many of his type with the overly affected accent, trust me I worked with lots of them. Most would have a more limited pedigree than JRM.

He’s the kind of guy who gives English people a bad name. In general I’d agree that Irish and English people are culturally pretty close (mostly their culture that we’ve imported tbf (tv, music, sport etc.) British Govt or State is something else I feel, and I’d say most Irish view them with a healthy suspicion at best.

indioblack · 01-03-2021 8:29pm

vriesmays wrote: »

The English are led by graduates of Oxford and Eaton; the Irish are led by schoolteachers.

Unfortunate that your schoolteacher didn't tell you how to spell Eton.

Strumms · 01-03-2021 9:57pm

On my work trips to the North of England, namely Manchester and Birmingham there wasn’t a single person whom I encountered, of whatever background who I didn’t like and get on with... line employees, contractors, management....all sound as.... couldn’t do enough for me including the manager taking me and two others for dinner and beers.....similar experiences in other European locations and on the other hand two locations, one the East End of London, the other North London were the only locations where I was let’s just say not availed of much of a welcome whatsoever and colleagues who went from here also hated having to go..they reported the same...

I recall once checking in at reception at 8.50 having been told to be there for 9.00... it was 9.45 before anybody could be bothered coming down to sign me in... when 1.30 came and it was lunch... they disappeared, I had no clue about the lunch room, or anything, if I hadn’t brought lunch and a drink from the subway on my way in I was fûcked... they came here, brought to spar in our own cars, met for a pint after work, guess just culturally ‘different’.

I and others drove the same muppets to the spar, etc

pgj2015 · 01-03-2021 9:59pm

simongurnick wrote: »

I live in Canada and work for one of the banks here. Was at this big conference once and noticed one of the fellas at our table was an English lad. Once the first coffee break hit, everyone is milling around talking awkwardly or trying to network.
I make a bee line for the English lad with one thought in my mind, a good chat about the footie. After exchanging a few pleasantries and the usual "hows the weather" chit chat, I throw in my opener. "So what football team do you support?"
Yer man answers " I don't really watch football".
My face dropped and I don't even think I registered what he said. I was like, "sorry, what??". He repeats it and I just go "oh, right", stare off in to the distance for a few seconds, then make my excuses and leave.
Still haven't got over it.

could you not ask him something else like whats tv Shows do you like? peep show? the inbetweeners? do you like oasis or blur? we have loads in common with them.

Larbre34 · 01-03-2021 10:10pm

Ive met a few really great English people, though in the main the ones I've met are really shallow and very boring.

01-03-2021 10:20pm

A photo of Sylvia from Stutgart would solve this quickly

murpho999 · 01-03-2021 10:21pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

could you not ask him something else like whats tv Shows do you like? peep show? the inbetweeners? do you like oasis or blur? we have loads in common with them.

Is that what being English and Irish is to you? TV & Music.

To me that's only a part of culture but too many people nowadays thinks that's all that culture is.

I think Irish and English people definitely have different cultures. This relates to outlook on life, work ethics, attitude to class (for example look our different attitudes to Republicanism and Monarchy, attitude to other countries and also how they feel about their own country's place in the world.

Whilst Irish and English could share a joke and a pint I do find once you go deeper that our mindsets are very different and recent evidence of this can be seen with all the Brexit events over the last few years.

In my time I have never met any Irish person with the "Brexiteer" attitude to the world. I find Irish people enjoy foreign cultures and ideas. Meet an Irish person living abroad, they'll most likely speak the local language.

It's just a completely different outlook in my opinion.

01-03-2021 10:24pm

murpho999 wrote: »

Is that what being English and Irish is to you? TV & Music.

To me that's only a part of culture but too many people nowadays thinks that's all that culture is.

I think Irish and English people definitely have different cultures. This relates to outlook on life, work ethics, attitude to class (for example look our different attitudes to Republicanism and Monarchy, attitude to other countries and also how they feel about their own country's place in the world.

Whilst Irish and English could share a joke and a pint I do find once you go deeper that our mindsets are very different and recent evidence of this can be seen with all the Brexit events over the last few years.

In my time I have never met any Irish person with the "Brexiteer" attitude to the world. I find Irish people enjoy foreign cultures and ideas. Meet an Irish person living abroad, they'll most likely speak the local language.

It's just a completely different outlook in my opinion.

I reckon this is a manifestation of class/your social circle?
Brexit arguably being a working class driven issue, V 'Remainers' being the liberal, educated elite.

SharpshooterTom · 01-03-2021 10:42pm

I agree although English and Irish people share some cultural similarities, I can't help but overlook how much anti-Irish prejudice still exists in the UK. Not as much as there once was, but its still there if you scratch the surface.

90%+ of all anti-Irish content I find online comes from one country (and a disproportionate amount of that from Scotland). Anytime I'm posting in US/Canada or Australian forums I don't see anywhere near the same amount of anti-Irish bile. American/Canadian conservatives don't dislike the Irish, a lot of British right wingers do.

I also find the Irish diaspora are better integrated in US/Canada/Australia/NZ. A lot of 2nd generation Irish in England, particularly in Scotland still identify as Irish only or just don't feel in anyway at all British.

murpho999 · 01-03-2021 10:43pm

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

I reckon this is a manifestation of class/your social circle?
Brexit arguably being a working class driven issue, V 'Remainers' being the liberal, educated elite.

Don't see what my class is as I'm Irish nor do I have an English social circle.

My point about Brexit was also completely separate to class.

The point was that it's different to Irish people.

E mac · 01-03-2021 10:45pm

Went over to England 2 years ago to Gloucester v Munster in the Heineken Cup. English guy next to me was chatty and I mentioned it was my first time in Gloucester and Kingholm was on my bucket list of rugby stadiums to visit, he likewise always wanted to go to Thomond Park...
Me: so why don't you go?
Him : aaahh it's kinda....
ME : Limericks not a million miles away just a short flight...
Him: ya but...
Me: you'll have a great night out in limerick as well!
Him : look I'm ex military don't think it would be a good idea...
Me: who's gonna know? Go you'll be fine...
it has stuck with me what he said that night the notion that Southern Ireland is a no go for him.

murpho999 · 01-03-2021 10:48pm

E mac wrote: »

Went over to England 2 years ago to Gloucester v Munster in the Heineken Cup. English guy next to me was chatty and I mentioned it was my first time in Gloucester and Kingholm was on my bucket list of rugby stadiums to visit, he likewise always wanted to go to Thomond Park...
Me: so why don't you go?
Him : aaahh it's kinda....
ME : Limericks not a million miles away just a short flight...
Him: ya but...
Me: you'll have a great night out in limerick as well!
Him : look I'm ex military don't think it would be a good idea...
Me: who's gonna know? Go you'll be fine...
it has stuck with me what he said that night the notion that Southern Ireland is a no go for him.

Is Limerick Southern Ireland, like Cork & Kerry?

Would he be safe in Eastern & Western Ireland?

E mac · 01-03-2021 10:50pm

murpho999 wrote: »

Is Limerick Southern Ireland, like Cork & Kerry?

Would he be safe in Eastern & Western Ireland?

I'm meant in the context of the Republic of Ireland.

Curse These Metal Hands · 01-03-2021 10:50pm

I have a couple of English friends that are good people and we have loads in common, but you have to make some allowances and try not to get annoyed when they are completely clueless about Ireland.

When I first met my English housemate here in Ireland, he had just moved over, and asked me why the local shop didn't accept pounds.

They often repeat what I say in a terrible Irish accent too, the joke never seems to get old. I saw James Haskell do this to Sean O Brien on a podcast recently, seemingly after an entire career of mixing with Irish players the joke is still funny. But overall, we have the same sense of humour and interests.

Having said that, when I was in France for the Euros the English fans were unbearable, I lost count of how many times a slur was shouted at me when wearing my Ireland jersey. The French hated them.

01-03-2021 10:51pm

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

England is the bigger country and therefore is under no obligation to learn our history nor care about it and why should they.

Australia doesn't care about NZ either but NZ has lots of opinions on them.

It's a weakness on our part

The history is shared. And it’s not like they know much about India either.

That said i do like most English people.

murpho999 · 01-03-2021 10:54pm

E mac wrote: »

I'm meant in the context of the Republic of Ireland.

Well that's not Southern Ireland in my book.

beerguts · 01-03-2021 11:00pm

In my job my team is based throughout Europe and I have to agree with a lot of the posters here regards having more in common with my English colleagues versus the Dutch and German guys I work with, the English guys are generally very light hearted and easily approachable. If I was to choose a group to have a pint with it would be the English as the craic would be good, I find you have to give allowances for their slagging as its a big part of their humour.
My one bugbear with them is that they can be unprofessional at times when there is a need for it, this is where I appreciate the Dutch and Germans more as you know they are taking the situation seriously instead off looking for a quip.

01-03-2021 11:17pm

I have to say though, reading the comment section of the daily mail these days is pretty depressing. Lots of anti Irish bile on there now.

The truth about the Irish and the English

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