Property Market 2019

Cyrus · 09-09-2019 11:39am

smurgen wrote: »

But your point is irrelevant to my situation. It's like telling me Ferraris are alot cheaper than they were while I'm in the market for a bog standard Toyota.

your situation is neither here nor there, people are saying we are at boom prices and beyond, im saying thats only true (if even im not sure because i dont really care) for a certain cohort of houses, for other sections of the market we are way off.

smurgen · 09-09-2019 11:48am

Cyrus wrote: »

your situation is neither here nor there, people are saying we are at boom prices and beyond, im saying thats only true (if even im not sure because i dont really care) for a certain cohort of houses, for other sections of the market we are way off.

Funny you sound like you care.

Cyrus · 09-09-2019 11:49am

smurgen wrote: »

Funny you sound like you care.

i dont care about houses in cork in the 350k segment because i dont live there and its not a market that interests me :P

ZX7R · 09-09-2019 11:53am

beauf wrote: »

It's not....

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Rents-in-Cork-are-rising-by-115-a-year-677d06bf-b95d-46d3-a892-2e9ae6e9f4da-ds

What bearing does that have on the last resssion though

beauf · 09-09-2019 12:25pm

ZX7R wrote: »

What bearing does that have on the last resssion though

Wasn't taking about recession but cork relative to the rest of the country. In terms of its not that different.

Heres another just for Cork.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/specialreports/house-prices-special-report-cork-city-prices-up-by-100k-in-five-years-919191.html

smurgen · 09-09-2019 12:35pm

beauf wrote: »

Wasn't taking about recession but cork relative to the rest of the country. In terms of its not that different.

Heres another just for Cork.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/specialreports/house-prices-special-report-cork-city-prices-up-by-100k-in-five-years-919191.html

And another couple

In the last few months I've seen alot of apartments gone on the market in cork. They seem to be extremely expensive for the size. Where I'm living, an apartment block in Rochestown the prices seem eye watering to me for what is on offer. The thing is they do not seem to be shifting at all. I think it's unrealisting pricing on the sellers behalf. I also spotted a luxury apartment block by Sunday's well gone on the market the last few weeks. Cannot see them getting the money they're asking

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/property/pure-corker-impressive-altus-apartments-go-on-sale-for-first-time-947306.html

09-09-2019 2:01pm

I was just chatting to my estate agent as I am listing my house. He said the market has stalled over uncertainty. Good houses are still getting bidding wars. In general it has levelled off, he reckons it will stall this year and start moving up by summer next year.

My opinion is there isnt a rental in site, theres a huge shortage so it will move again. I am trading up so its irrelevant whether I do my move this year or wait, if i wait i will be paying higher for my trader upper so it's all relevant in terms of pricing

Peterx · 09-09-2019 2:36pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I was just chatting to my estate agent as I am listing my house. He said the market has stalled over uncertainty. Good houses are still getting bidding wars. In general it has levelled off, he reckons it will stall this year and start moving up by summer next year.

My opinion is there isnt a rental in site, theres a huge shortage so it will move again. I am trading up so its irrelevant whether I do my move this year or wait, if i wait i will be paying higher for my trader upper so it's all relevant in terms of pricing

That's always the bet with pricing though, isn't it?

If prices continue to soften, or indeed fall, the price differential to that trader upper will also fall.
How likely is it that your estate agent merely wants to believe house prices will rise again next summer, as opposed to the actual facts of prices remaining stalled - as he knows they are now.

A lot depends on the price point and my personal belief is that trader uppers are holding off and houses will continue to take a long time to sell at that price point (essentially houses that FTBs can't afford) and there will be further price drops due to circumstances of vendors.

Good old Brexit could (amazingly) still be in the news next year if Britain asks for another extension.

09-09-2019 3:05pm

Peterx wrote: »

That's always the bet with pricing though, isn't it?

If prices continue to soften, or indeed fall, the price differential to that trader upper will also fall.
How likely is it that your estate agent merely wants to believe house prices will rise again next summer, as opposed to the actual facts of prices remaining stalled - as he knows they are now.

A lot depends on the price point and my personal belief is that trader uppers are holding off and houses will continue to take a long time to sell at that price point (essentially houses that FTBs can't afford) and there will be further price drops due to circumstances of vendors.

Good old Brexit could (amazingly) still be in the news next year if Britain asks for another extension.

he knows i am not bothered either way, we were just chatting and exchanging views

regarding trader upper, i am looking at a house for 350, the houses up the road under construction are close to 400, FTB are going for the new houses as they are brand new and A3 rated plus they get the HTB. This is distorting second hand good houses.

I am preferring this house although it was built 15 years ago but has a bigger garden, better parking and more green space than the new houses

bluelamp · 10-09-2019 11:20am

ZX7R wrote: »

Price's in the rental market never really dropped in the last resssion they raised, and won't in the next, social welfare payment's will increase to help people keep renting

What? Rental prices halved in a lot of case.

I viewed a two bed apartment in clontarf in 2011 for 800 euros a month, a three bed house in kilmainham for 1000, and a two bed in drumcondra for 600. That was just Dublin.

Once you went out to the commuter towns, there were 4 bedroom houses in the likes of Maynooth, Naas, Drogheda, etc renting for 800-900 a month.

Student accomodation dropped further, complexes in the likes of Cork and Limerick dropped to as low as 50 euros a week per room.

Rental prices were on the floor from 2008 for the guts of five years - your post is simply untrue.

Mickiemcfist · 10-09-2019 11:38am

bluelamp wrote: »

What? Rental prices halved in a lot of case.

I viewed a two bed apartment in clontarf in 2011 for 800 euros a month, a three bed house in kilmainham for 1000, and a two bed in drumcondra for 600. That was just Dublin.

Once you went out to the commuter towns, there were 4 bedroom houses in the likes of Maynooth, Naas, Drogheda, etc renting for 800-900 a month.

Student accomodation dropped further, complexes in the likes of Cork and Limerick dropped to as low as 50 euros a week per room.

Rental prices were on the floor from 2008 for the guts of five years - your post is simply untrue.

That wasn't my (anecdotal) experience in South Dublin, rents stayed relatively flat until about 2013 & then started skyrocketing

Cuddlesworth · 10-09-2019 11:50am

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

That wasn't my (anecdotal) experience in South Dublin, rents stayed relatively flat until about 2013 & then started skyrocketing

They dropped like a stone in 2008 + 2009.

99problems1 · 10-09-2019 12:07pm

Would love to know the figures from the last 10 years on rent increases.

This 4% seems to be increasing them much faster in my experience. Now every year it's going up 4%. It's a massive increase. Shameful from FG.

The_Conductor · 10-09-2019 12:13pm

99problems1 wrote: »

Would love to know the figures from the last 10 years on rent increases.

This 4% seems to be increasing them much faster in my experience. Now every year it's going up 4%. It's a massive increase. Shameful from FG.

Most landlords would be perfectly happy not to increase the rent for sitting tenants- if they were allowed to reset the rent when tenants changed. The way the 4% increase is structured, a landlord is penalised down the road if/when the tenant eventually moves on- unless they keep with the game.

It means decent good tenants (the vast majority of tenants) end up getting a 4% per annum increase- where landlords would be perfectly happy to reward them for being good tenants- however, if they do reward a tenant for being a good tenant- any future tenants are entitled to piggyback on the goodwill generated by the original tenant.

How is that fair?

Mickiemcfist · 10-09-2019 12:19pm

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

They dropped like a stone in 2008 + 2009.

https://www.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Statire/SelectVarVal/saveselections.asp

Checked South Dublin, 08 & 09 don't look much lower than average for the 5 years prior. (I was looking at 2 bed apartments, because that's what I was living in at the time)

99problems1 · 10-09-2019 12:20pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

Most landlords would be perfectly happy not to increase the rent for sitting tenants- if they were allowed to reset the rent when tenants changed. The way the 4% increase is structured, a landlord is penalised down the road if/when the tenant eventually moves on- unless they keep with the game.

It means decent good tenants (the vast majority of tenants) end up getting a 4% per annum increase- where landlords would be perfectly happy to reward them for being good tenants- however, if they do reward a tenant for being a good tenant- any future tenants are entitled to piggyback on the goodwill generated by the original tenant.

How is that fair?

Probably! When these rules were brought (3 years ago?) in my rent went up 15%.

Then last year it went up 4% and now again it's going up 4%. It hadn't gone up in the years before that.

So in total my rent has gone up 24% in 3 years. FG never getting a vote from me again.

optogirl · 10-09-2019 12:25pm

99problems1 wrote: »

Probably! When these rules were brought (3 years ago?) in my rent went up 15%.

Then last year it went up 4% and now again it's going up 4%. It hadn't gone up in the years before that.

So in total my rent has gone up 24% in 3 years. FG never getting a vote from me again.

same here - no increase until FG suggested capping it at 4% and it's gone up 4% every year since.

Brussels Sprout · 10-09-2019 3:02pm

This thread is worse than the soccer forum for all of the vested interests and lack of objectivity (on both sides).

rightmove · 10-09-2019 3:44pm

optogirl wrote: »

same here - no increase until FG suggested capping it at 4% and it's gone up 4% every year since.

FG have been really bad for tenants and good for reits

hmmm · 10-09-2019 4:11pm

It means decent good tenants (the vast majority of tenants) end up getting a 4% per annum increase- where landlords would be perfectly happy to reward them for being good tenants

How is that fair?

Lots of us pointed out that this would happen, but the quick fix brigade demanded rent controls as the solution. They are economic morons, and government and the media need to stop listening to them.

mike_cork · 10-09-2019 5:20pm

hmmm wrote: »

Lots of us pointed out that this would happen, but the quick fix brigade demanded rent controls as the solution. They are economic morons, and government and the media need to stop listening to them.

What could possibly go wrong with more govt/state interference in the property market :pac:

rightmove · 10-09-2019 5:27pm

mike_cork wrote: »

What could possibly go wrong with more govt/state interference in the property market :pac:

At the end it's the tenants that were ultimately blindsided with the media beating the drums to the tune of hang the landlord. Landlord left and tenant stuck with it now

mike_cork · 10-09-2019 5:43pm

rightmove wrote: »

At the end it's the tenants that were ultimately blindsided with the media beating the drums to the tune of hang the landlord. Landlord left and tenant stuck with it now

This

I feel every step the govt has undertaken in the market (both rental and people purchasing homes) has made things worse. With the current regulatory climate (never mind the anti landlord stuff in the press/online) I think you would be crazy to be a small landlord.

Cuddlesworth · 10-09-2019 6:04pm

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

https://www.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Statire/SelectVarVal/saveselections.asp

Checked South Dublin, 08 & 09 don't look much lower than average for the 5 years prior. (I was looking at 2 bed apartments, because that's what I was living in at the time)

As somebody who moved 4 times in 5 years from 2008, you could negotiate well under asking on most places. The bottom end was around 200 quid above rent allowance. So cheap places stayed static, more up market properties(penthouses/large houses) tanked in price and could be picked up for a steal. I moved into a 3 bed penthouse that went from 2500+ a month to 1400 a month. I've recently seen another apartment renting for over 3k there.

A lot of people just didn't pay much attention and didn't move to take advantage of it.

awec · 10-09-2019 10:11pm

hmmm wrote: »

Lots of us pointed out that this would happen, but the quick fix brigade demanded rent controls as the solution. They are economic morons, and government and the media need to stop listening to them.

The thing that always amuses me about this complaining is the notion of pre-RPZs, landlords weren't increasing rent out of the goodness of their own hearts.

"Ah sure good tenants are getting their rents increased by 4% every year now, it's shocking!".

Reality: rents always went up. Rent increases are not an invention of the RPZs. The idea that rents would be lower if it weren't for the RPZs is laughable, a story that nobody is buying.

What's next? Discard the RPZs and we'll see rent rates plummet? Please...

99problems1 · 10-09-2019 10:38pm

awec wrote: »

The thing that always amuses me about this complaining is the notion of pre-RPZs, landlords weren't increasing rent out of the goodness of their own hearts.

"Ah sure good tenants are getting their rents increased by 4% every year now, it's shocking!".

Reality: rents always went up. Rent increases are not an invention of the RPZs. The idea that rents would be lower if it weren't for the RPZs is laughable, a story that nobody is buying.

What's next? Discard the RPZs and we'll see rent rates plummet? Please...

Rented for 4 years and rent never went up from 2013-2016. Then this rent cap came in and I had a review and increase of 15% and 4% 2 years after and another 4% this year.

It's very true.

Villa05 · 10-09-2019 11:12pm

awec wrote:

Reality: rents always went up. Rent increases are not an invention of the RPZs. The idea that rents would be lower if it weren't for the RPZs is laughable, a story that nobody is buying.

Was very true when I was renting. Landlords put a value on a good tennant. This value translated to below market rent for many Tennant's.

RPZs have ended this practice and rents have increased substantially in areas outside RPZs as landlords prepared for there arrival.

beauf · 10-09-2019 11:18pm

awec wrote: »

The thing that always amuses me about this complaining is the notion of pre-RPZs, landlords weren't increasing rent out of the goodness of their own hearts.

"Ah sure good tenants are getting their rents increased by 4% every year now, it's shocking!".

Reality: rents always went up. Rent increases are not an invention of the RPZs. The idea that rents would be lower if it weren't for the RPZs is laughable, a story that nobody is buying.

What's next? Discard the RPZs and we'll see rent rates plummet? Please...

Rents have not always gone up.

https://touch.daft.ie/report/stephen-kinsella

Also if rents go up, sometimes massively. They can only do that if they were lower to begin with.

If you go back even further...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thejournal.ie/rent-1990s-different-times-better-cheaper-more-money-1968583-Mar2015/%3famp=1

beauf · 10-09-2019 11:24pm

If you try sell a property stuck on a low rent it will hurt that value of that house. Also since you can't raise the rent at the end of a tenancy you are now limited to when you can do it.

Therefore it would be stupid not to raise the rent and do so at every opportunity. If you are not in a rpz you have to act as if it could made one tomorrow.

Or just sell up to someone who isn't going to rent it.

beauf · 10-09-2019 11:27pm

Anyway the damage is done now. No point complaining about it now. That ship has sailed.

Next they will try block LL from selling which will cause a load to sell just in case.

They'll pull out of their investments and wait for the market to drop and may reinvest at that point.

Maybe...

Property Market 2019

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