Handwriting decipher thread must post link to full page

shanew · 18-09-2015 7:03pm

the word directly after the 15 looks like Married - I think the very last word on the 2nd line after the witnesses might be a place name 'B Clave' - a townland named Ballyclave ?

shanew · 18-09-2015 7:08pm

The other word between Gleesson and the & before Bridget does appear to start with his strange capital 'P' - and maybe includes a lower case p and ends in an r or n ?

tonycascarino · 18-09-2015 7:14pm

Thanks Shanew for your efforts. It's a tricky one! Could the P word actually be Boher?

shanew · 18-09-2015 7:15pm

there's a townland named Piperhill in Toem civil parish that might fit.. it's one of the civil parishes covered by Kilcommon/Templebeg

pretty sure that's a P - look at the Patrick

tonycascarino · 18-09-2015 7:21pm

It certainly does look like Piper, it's just that I never heard of it before. However, now that you've mentioned the above & it's close proximity to Kilcommon, then it could very easily be that. Once again, thank you!!

CeannRua · 18-09-2015 9:01pm

tonycascarino wrote: »

Hi..I was doing a bit of research & I was just wondering if someone could help make out the place name beside 15 - Married Patrick Gleeson of ?? & Bridget etc. The place name looks like it starts with P but I haven't a clue what it is. Maybe one of your eyes are better than mine.

http://mediasvc.ancestry.co.uk/v2/image/namespaces/1093/media/bf622c1c-1c8e-4085-afd5-457a91d033dd?client=TreesUI

Thanks in advance..

Small moan - links to original register pages are better than screenshots.

I think this might say Piper. There is a townland called Piperhill so perhaps check if it could be this.

Additional: sorry shanew's post only showed on screen for me after I posted.

shanew · 18-09-2015 10:04pm

CeannRua wrote: »

Small moan - links to original register pages are better than screenshots.

I think this might say Piper. There is a townland called Piperhill so perhaps check if it could be this.

Additional: sorry shanew's post only showed on screen for me after I posted.

at least we both independently came up with the same answer - that's a good result...

agree on the preference for a link, first thing I did was look for the original image. Maybe also having a screen-shot showing the required entry along with the 'difficult' words highlighted would be the ideal way

tonycascarino · 20-09-2015 10:12pm

I'm probably pushing my luck but I have just one last question if anyone can answer please. I would just like to know what Parish (looks like Toome but not sure) James Cash is from on marriage dated 26/02/1816 in the link & what does it say next to the Parish name.It is the 2nd marriage of that date. I'll leave you alone after this. Thanks again! :-)

http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632667#page/139/mode/1up

Hermy · 20-09-2015 11:46pm

This is what I have...

Mar. 26 by Rev. John Murphy James Cash farmer
of the parish of Toome duly certified to Ellen
Murphy of Grange wts. Donal Murphy Donal
Cash & Anne Murphy

I wouldn't have figured the grooms surname was Cash - looks like Cap to me.:o

tonycascarino · 21-09-2015 12:06am

Thanks Hermy! At least we both see Toome.

Sometimes even if it appears obvious it mightn't be what ones eyes think they see. Think the Murphy you see for the bride is actually Morrisy. Would never have made out 'duly certified' either so thanks for solving that also.

KildareFan · 21-09-2015 8:23am

tonycascarino wrote: »

Thanks Hermy! At least we both see Toome. Sometimes even if it appears obvious it mightn't be what ones eyes think they see. Think the Murphy you see for the bride is actually Morrisy. Would never have made out 'duly certified' either so thanks for solving that also.

I've found in some cases of the early baptism registers that the double s [SS] is represented by a letter that can look like p. See difference between Morrissy and Murphy in this entry

Hermy · 20-11-2015 12:28am

I'm looking at the death of Mrs. Fanning - 3rd last entry on the right page - and wondering about the cause of death if anyone can help.

EDIT: Google suggests the word may be puerperal.

VirginiaB · 20-11-2015 1:45am

It is puerperal. It is also called childbed fever and was a very common cause of death among women soon after childbirth in the pre-antibiotic era. One of my family, a young lawyer, almost died of it last year here in the US. It is extremely rare tho it took four antibiotics before they found one that worked. They brought in an infectious disease specialist who said he sees perhaps one case a year. No idea how she got it. Very very common years ago.

tabbey · 20-11-2015 2:48pm

tonycascarino wrote: »

I'm probably pushing my luck but I have just one last question if anyone can answer please. I would just like to know what Parish (looks like Toome but not sure) James Cash is from on marriage dated 26/02/1816 in the link & what does it say next to the Parish name.It is the 2nd marriage of that date. I'll leave you alone after this. Thanks again! :-)

http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632667#page/139/mode/1up

The groom's surname is Cass, as was normal for the time, the double s is formed of a short s and a long s. The groom's parish, Toome, is presumably an abbreviation for Toomevara, a parish immediately north of Borrisoleigh. Cass was a fairly common name in that area.

pinkypinky · 23-11-2015 3:38pm

Thoughts please on the note in the comments column for Thomas Joseph Magrath born 1874. Am linking to the irishgenealogy version for easy access:
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/b13e770258901

"A child formerly of....."

shanew · 23-11-2015 4:02pm

pinkypinky wrote: »

Thoughts please on the note in the comments column for Thomas Joseph Magrath born 1874. Am linking to the irishgenealogy version for easy access:
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/b13e770258901

"A child formerly of....."

a child found at 5 Lagan St./Ct. at 9 O'C ?

shanew · 23-11-2015 4:05pm

maybe that's Lurgan St., which is in the parish...

pedroeibar1 · 24-11-2015 12:00am

Sorry to be the odd one out; I’m not so sure about “found” as it suggests a foundling whereas the register states on the left hand page that he was the child of parents legitimately joined in matrimony (“ex parentibus ligitimo matrimomio junctis”) If he was “found” why do they have his DOB down precisely as 24th and how did they find a sponsor just over a day later for the baptism?
I think it might have been a private baptism that took place at 9.00. The column it is in deals with special circumstances - converts, adult baptisms, etc.
Pinky, did he survive? Could it be that he was not expected to live and the priest did the job in the home?

pinkypinky · 24-11-2015 10:57am

He certainly was alive in 1890, when he was witness to his brother's marriage (unless they had a later child with the same name, of course), but Thomas McGrath is too common a name to go hunting down deaths.

Looking at other baptisms on that page, a week is the furthest between birth and baptism, which is what I'd expect for the time. In Thomas's case, he lived a few doors down from the church, so they probably only needed to wait for his mother to recover from the birth. But it's possible he was a weak baby and they were being extra cautious.

I just don't why they'd bother with another address and a time of baptism though.

pedroeibar1 · 24-11-2015 11:23am

pinkypinky wrote: »

I just don't why they'd bother with another address and a time of baptism though.

My take is the mother gave birth in another house- not unusual for a mother to go to her parents' home, particularly for the first child? Had Thomas been a foundling I'd guess the "parents" would be written as "unknown" and Edward and Margaret as "sponsors"

pinkypinky · 24-11-2015 12:36pm

He wasn't the first child, parents married 1864 - but I agree, it's plausible he was born in another house...the annotation on the baptism will just have to stay a mystery.

shanew · 24-11-2015 1:12pm

wonder if the curly brackets indicate anything ?

they dont generally feature in the comments - was wondering if the comment might might not be for Thomas

pinkypinky · 24-11-2015 4:41pm

You mean could it reference the sponsor perhaps?

Hermy · 24-11-2015 4:59pm

Might he have been premature - Mammy went into labour early and the priest was called?

spurious · 24-11-2015 5:25pm

It looks to me to be in a different hand altogether than the one who filled in the details about the baptism.

shanew · 24-11-2015 6:05pm

I suspect the brackets are meant to isolate the entry - maybe it was just something that happened that day (since a time is mentioned), and someone thought it should be noted

p.s. following on from the apparent different writing mentioned by spurious , the initials on this notation appear to be P.M., and the Priest that carried out the baptism (P.P.?) has surname Ryan.

shanew · 24-11-2015 6:10pm

one more thing - I think the first word is important also (by my reading of the text) 'a child' - not 'the child'

pedroeibar1 · 24-11-2015 8:08pm

Shane has me persuaded - a child found at ...etc. ..at 9 o'C PM (rather than AM). No point in giving her (as in "Is it a boy or a child?") an entry of her own, nothing to fill in, but the priest wanted to record the event.

shanew · 24-11-2015 11:30pm

hadn't thought of the P.M. as part of the time, but the previous night would def. make sense..

pinkypinky · 24-11-2015 11:56pm

But the sponsor cannot be a foundling from the previous night - a godparent has to be a confirmed person (so at least a teenager).

Handwriting decipher thread *must post link to full page*

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Handwriting decipher thread must post link to full page