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Twitter removing "master", "slave", and "blacklist" to be more inclusi

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    #92
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    As an Irish person. When a process is starved of memory I fcking lose it.


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    #93
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    ...because you're white? :pac:

    :rolleyes:


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    #94
    KiKi III
    Registered Users Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Some change in architecture terms on the backend of a website does not make that company more inclusive. People don't even write these things when they code. It's not like the employee has to be reminded of some part of his history on a daily basis.

    And that’s a perfectly valid *opinion* for you to hold, but obviously the guy who initiated the change doesn’t agree with you. I’m not sure why you think your view is more correct or holds more weight than his.


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    #95
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    timmy_mallet wrote: »
    Right. I don't think that means technical language can't change either though.
    If you refer to master-slave that's instantly recognisable. If it's a term like primary-secondary, primary-replica, server-client or whatever people need to have a common understanding what it means in a specific context.


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    #96
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    gailforecast wrote: »
    Dunno about MySQL, but a Redhat slave is spawned to perform work on behalf of the master process, so the terminology fits.

    Agent works just as well.
    is_that_so wrote: »
    If you refer to master-slave that's instantly recognisable. If it's a term like primary-secondary, primary-replica, server-client or whatever people need to have a common understand what it means.

    If a programmer doesn't know what server-client is, I'd be worried for their job.


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    #97
    This is it
    Registered Users Posts: 5,233 ✭✭✭This is it


    Didn't read the whole thread but Cisco Talos also removing Blacklist and Whitelist to be replaced with block list and allow list. I presume Cisco will remove them across all systems eventually.


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    #98
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭ [Deleted User]


    KiKi III wrote: »
    And that’s a perfectly valid *opinion* for you to hold, but obviously the guy who initiated the change doesn’t agree with you. I’m not sure why you think your view is more correct or holds more weight than his.

    I already said why.. I think he's a worthless cúnt, so of course I think my view holds more weight. We're just going around in circles now.


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    #99
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,048 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    limnam wrote: »
    As an Irish person. When a process is starved of memory I fcking lose it.
    Brilliant


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    #100
    hellsing101
    Registered Users Posts: 228 ✭✭hellsing101


    timmy_mallet wrote: »
    'attached some racial term'?!! I think there were African slaves in the US long before the thought of how to recover from someone running a 'DROP *' in Production.


    I mean in the context of the scenario in I.T, its not used as a racial term, rather that its a master controller and a slave worker process. I don't think an African American who has experience in I.T would see that and think that its referring to that period in American history the same way a Jewish person wouldn't see that and think on the slavery during the Holocaust or the slavery they went through with the Egyptians or as an Irish person I wouldn't see the slavery the Irish went through at the hands of the Vikings. Its a standard I.T term. When you hear the term paddy wagon do you find that racist or do you understand the context that its used in today's language?


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    #101
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Skylinehead wrote: »
    Agent works just as well.



    If a programmer doesn't know what server-client is, I'd be worried for their job.
    Sure, but that term is understood. Terminology changes where they occur need to be consistent.


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    #102
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I don't like server-client.. It's confusing in the context of master and slave servers. Then the client, a web browser, would be connecting to a client server, the former slave server.


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    #103
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    KiKi III wrote: »
    And that’s a perfectly valid *opinion* for you to hold, but obviously the guy who initiated the change doesn’t agree with you. I’m not sure why you think your view is more correct or holds more weight than his.

    Shouldn’t they have raised this issue when they were in college learning this stuff?


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    #104
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »
    Shouldn’t they have raised this issue when they were in college learning this stuff?


    #blacklivesdidntmatter then


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    #105
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,856 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    It it going to become a thing now, where if I say... “I’m still trying to ‘master’ that song on the guitar,” I might be by a certain demographic of person accused of using language with racist overtones ? Completely ignoring the context of my use of that word...

    “acquire complete knowledge or skill in (a subject, technique, or art).”

    You literally have a cross section of people hijacking the English language ironically enough akin to a sort of Nazi-esq dictatorial type shutting down of free and inoffensive speech.

    Slave ?

    a person who works very hard without proper remuneration or appreciation.

    "by the time I was ten, I had become her slave, doing all the housework


    "the poorest people of the world are slaves to the banks"

    a device, or part of one, directly controlled by another.
    "a slave cassette deck"

    Cross sections of society don’t have any business trying to control free speech.

    Different if speech is being used to abuse or hurt people as in ‘hate speech’ but general speech that has been used for centuries to be non offensive, descriptive and conversational... no, I’m not having the language bastardized and free usage curtailed or even criminalized because a few eejits don’t like it.


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    #106
    KungPao
    Registered Users Posts: 4,781 ✭✭✭KungPao


    I just heard the BBC and BMW are changing their names.

    When will the madness end?


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    #107
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I don't like server-client.. It's confusing in the context of master and slave servers. Then the client, a web browser, would be connecting to a client server, the former slave server.

    I'd be more inclined to use agents in that scenario than client yes.


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    #108
    StupidLikeAFox
    Registered Users Posts: 7,699 ✭✭✭StupidLikeAFox


    African-american slavery in america is fairly recent and can see why an african american wouldn't be too enthused about having the whole slave/master thing thrown around in the office, even if it is just computer terminology.

    Don't know whether Twitter are doing this in reaction to complaints or as a proactive step but either way if it leads to a happier workplace then who cares.
    Its very weird that some external person would take umbrage with a change in the terminology used by a companies IT department.


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    #109
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I already said why.. I think he's a worthless cúnt, so of course I think my view holds more weight. We're just going around in circles now.

    You label someone (and not their opinion, but them personally) as "worthless" and a "cnut" for having their own opinion... Hilarious!

    *Holds mirror up* and applies same logic.


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    #110
    ronivek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,916 ✭✭✭ronivek


    Another relative non-issue which certain people are getting unduly upset over.

    A black engineer inside Twitter saw how certain terms were used and started a push to change the terminology; leadership tended to agree so they decided to do it.

    It's not going to "cost millions" and it's not going to somehow confuse everyone to the extent productivity is suddenly going to take a nose-dive; but it might help black engineers feel like the company is making an effort to be more inclusive and I don't see how that can ever be a bad thing.


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    #111
    timmy_mallet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭timmy_mallet


    hellsing101 wrote: »
    I mean in the context of the scenario in I.T, its not used as a racial term, rather that its a master controller and a slave worker process. I don't think an African American who has experience in I.T would see that and think that its referring to that period in American history the same way a Jewish person wouldn't see that and think on the slavery during the Holocaust or the slavery they went through with the Egyptians or as an Irish person I wouldn't see the slavery the Irish went through at the hands of the Vikings. Its a standard I.T term. When you hear the term paddy wagon do you find that racist or do you understand the context that its used in today's language?

    Paddy wagon; yes, no need to use it, let's move on.


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    #112
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Strumms wrote: »

    Different if speech is being used to abuse or hurt people as in ‘hate speech’ but general speech that has been used for centuries to be non offensive, descriptive and conversational... no, I’m not having the language bastardized and free usage curtailed or even criminalized because a few eejits don’t like it.

    Wow, I didn't realize computers and Twitter have been around for centuries :pac:

    You're not having it... language being "bastardized" lol.
    Oxford Dictionary: Bastardized - change (something) in such a way as to lower its quality or value, typically by adding new elements.

    Example of anything being lower in quality or value?


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    #113
    timmy_mallet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭timmy_mallet


    ronivek wrote: »
    Another relative non-issue which certain people are getting unduly upset over.

    A black engineer inside Twitter saw how certain terms were used and started a push to change the terminology; leadership tended to agree so they decided to do it.

    It's not going to "cost millions" and it's not going to somehow confuse everyone to the extent productivity is suddenly going to take a nose-dive; but it might help black engineers feel like the company is making an effort to be more inclusive and I don't see how that can ever be a bad thing.

    Someone inside my own (US) org objected to an image/logo we had on an internal repo of three animated characters because it wasn't inclusive. We changed it. Cost about 3 minutes.


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    #114
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ronivek wrote: »
    Another relative non-issue which certain people are getting unduly upset over.

    A black engineer inside Twitter saw how certain terms were used and started a push to change the terminology; leadership tended to agree so they decided to do it.

    It's not going to "cost millions" and it's not going to somehow confuse everyone to the extent productivity is suddenly going to take a nose-dive; but it might help black engineers feel like the company is making an effort to be more inclusive and I don't see how that can ever be a bad thing.

    The articles about this story say it will cost millions. I think when you're one of the most highly-paid employees in the country working for Twitter, you should just get on with it and not make your company spend millions because you mistakenly think master and slave refer solely to white and black people.

    And it isn't more inclusive. I have no idea how this could be seen as that instead of what it is which is pandering. Even our hard drives have master and slave modes. We all own this stuff.


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    #115
    gailforecast
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 140 ✭✭gailforecast


    I suppose we should remove “zombie” as well, it could be construed as cultural appropriation.

    “orphan” needs to go also, it could trigger someone who was adopted.

    “Memory leak” is also offensive to those with amnesia, so we need to find a more inclusive, non problematic term to describe that.


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    #116
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,856 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    Wow, I didn't realize computers and Twitter have been around for centuries :pac:

    You're not having it... language being "bastardized" lol.
    Oxford Dictionary: Bastardized - change (something) in such a way as to lower its quality or value, typically by adding new elements.

    Example of anything being lower in quality or value?

    It’s obviously considered lower in quality (by some) or value if a certain demographic of person is attempting to remove its usage from the language.

    In a previous life a job I had we used a particular piece of equipment called a ‘slave’... about 40% of those who used this equipment were of African heritage... they saw nothing wrong with using the term ‘slave’ in the referring context.


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    #117
    limnam
    Registered Users Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭limnam


    gailforecast wrote: »
    “Memory leak” is also offensive to those with amnesia, so we need to find a more inclusive, non problematic term to describe that.

    Or IBS.


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    #118
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Strumms wrote: »
    It’s obviously considered lower in quality (by some) or value if a certain demographic of person is attempting to remove its usage from the language.

    How is it inherently obvious again? And IF/or because "a certain demographic of person" is advocating for change? That's actually quite a loaded thing to say.

    There would also be people from other 'demographics' who support it and agreed to the change.


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    #119
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭ [Deleted User]


    gailforecast wrote: »
    I suppose we should remove “zombie” as well, it could be construed as cultural appropriation.

    “orphan” needs to go also, it could trigger someone who was adopted.

    “Memory leak” is also offensive to those with amnesia, so we need to find a more inclusive, non problematic term to describe that.

    ne3mgrzdetz01.png


    We need change everything. Imagine losing a child and having to work in Twitter with people talking about killing children in the most efficient manner.


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    #120
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The articles about this story say it will cost millions. I think when you're one of the most highly-paid employees in the country working for Twitter, you should just get on with it and not make your company spend millions because you mistakenly think master and slave refer solely to white and black people.

    And it isn't more inclusive. I have no idea how this could be seen as that instead of what it is which is pandering. Even our hard drives have master and slave modes. We all own this stuff.

    Twitter bosses and some of their employees disagree. Their opinion holds more weight than yours! :pac:


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    #121
    ronivek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,916 ✭✭✭ronivek


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The articles about this story say it will cost millions. I think when you're one of the most highly-paid employees in the country working for Twitter, you should just get on with it and not make your company spend millions because you mistakenly think master and slave refer solely to white and black people.

    And it isn't more inclusive. I have no idea how this could be seen as that instead of what it is which is pandering.

    Which articles and who was it that actually discussed the cost? I guarantee it was nobody from Twitter or any similarly sized technology company.

    The engineer in question isn't an idiot. He knows exactly what the terms are supposed to mean; he also knows the historical context around the terms and wanted to have them changed. His leadership agreed and they decided to change them.
    I was inspired to start this work when I saw an email come through to our eng org with the line "automatic slave rekick.” Seeing it was infuriating. I’ve been used to seeing the word “slave” throughout my CS education but this was different.

    Fair play to him; he put a lot of time and effort into the project and it paid off in the end.


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