A 30 KPH limit for Dublin

double jobbing · 03-06-2020 7:45pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

do you always hit a string of greens in that scenario, or are you portraying a very rare situation as if it's normal?

In that part of town, maintaining 50kph at a calm enough time (5pm weekday driving conditions these days are much like a weekend afternoon in normal times) yes, I'd say I normally cruise over that distance with little to no reds.

i.e. are you saying you're used to driving around the city at a constant speed of 50km/h? if not, the situation above is a freak situation and hardly applies in general.

In non rush hour traffic, yes, I'd maintain 50 for the bulk of my travel I would say.

Unless some of you speed Nazis are infront of me of course.

And I need to reduce the speed once a cyclist with a death wish is spotted ahead. As when he pulls out without bothering to glance backwards because he was using his phone to switch podcasts on his Beats, I'll be the one who will cop the bother if there's an impact.

This is a serious question for the bike lads who actually also drive. How often have you ever seen a cyclist glance behind them before pulling out?

double jobbing · 03-06-2020 7:47pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

If by penalised you mean, should drivers have to lose a maximum of 3 minutes to travel up the malahide road in order to limit the chance of someone dying I would say that that seems like a reasonable trade off.

I would find this restriction incredibly irritating while driving home no doubt. But there isn't a great cogent argument against it outside of it being irritating.

How is it possibly three minutes when you take into account the amount of reds you will hit?

Simple test. Drive on one of the proposed routes art 30km and note down how many reds you hit that you would have missed at 50.

All this bollocks about mental health these days and the DCC wants us to spend potentially years longer in traffic.

Podge_irl · 03-06-2020 7:53pm

double jobbing wrote: »

How is it possibly three minutes when you take into account the amount of reds you will hit?

Simple test. Drive on one of the proposed routes art 30km and note down how many reds you hit that you would have missed at 50.

All this bollocks about mental health these days and the DCC wants us to spend potentially years longer in traffic.

The lighting systems will be changed to accommodate a 30kph speed so that's irrelevant.

You spend time in traffic because of traffic, not because of speed limits.

magicbastarder · 03-06-2020 7:53pm

double jobbing wrote: »

In that part of town, maintaining 50kph at a calm enough time (5pm weekday driving conditions these days are much like a weekend afternoon in normal times) yes, I'd say I normally cruise over that distance with little to no reds.

In non rush hour traffic, yes, I'd maintain 50 for the bulk of my travel I would say.

hang on - what about the people who have hit the reds in front of you, so aer doing less than 50km/h? you say you're maintaining it for minutes on end, so do you quantum tunnel through them?

Tea drinker · 03-06-2020 7:58pm

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

Genuine question,

Would someone rather take their chances as a pedestrian against a car driving 30kph or a Bicycle doing 30kph?

Car driver might slow before hitting, how much speed would a cyclist be able to or want to lose if you stepped in front of one?

magicbastarder · 03-06-2020 7:59pm

double jobbing wrote: »

Simple test. Drive on one of the proposed routes art 30km and note down how many reds you hit that you would have missed at 50.

simple test. drive at 50km/h and hit a red. you're waiting there maybe 15s. if you'd driven at 30km/h, you'd have hit it when it was green and made the exact same progress. you're cherry picking your anecdotes.

if a light is red say 70% of the time, your chances of it being red when you arrive (assuming no other traffic) is 70%. assuming other traffic increases the chances of you getting stopped at it on a red cycle.

magicbastarder · 03-06-2020 8:01pm

Tea drinker wrote: »

Car driver might slow before hitting, how much speed would a cyclist be able to or want to lose if you stepped in front of one?

'want to'? here's a funny thing about the difference between driving a car into a pedestrian at 30km/h, and riding into a pedestrian on a bike on 30km/h.

it's going to hurt the cyclist a *hell* of a lot more than the driver.

kenmm · 03-06-2020 8:05pm

15 pages of usual boards nonsense.

@double jobbing - Did a cyclist once break your heart? touched you inappropriately? I'm getting the impression you really don't like them

Doc07 · 03-06-2020 8:05pm

OP is a joke account I presume.
I did enjoy this gem though

‘Do these people realise that with people glancing at the speedometer more often they are far more likely to have a collision? ‘

kenmm · 03-06-2020 8:05pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

The lighting systems will be changed to accommodate a 30kph speed so that's irrelevant.

If they would fix the traffic lights for the current situation it would help a bit as well!

Hurrache · 03-06-2020 8:11pm

double jobbing wrote: »

Now, in a wholly statistical rarity it was a gang of teenage local howiyas, when to be fair this sort of craic is usually the persuit of either the lycra clad Green voter from Donnybrook or the Spanish Facebook worker (although for bonus points the Spaniard is usually staring at his phone while blocking out the wider world with Beats type earphones)

Either way why should responsible drivers be penalised to save the lives of morons?

Now we know you're waffling.

No self respecting member of the lycra clad cycling deep state would allow anyone to sit on their cross bars.

That's an activity purely reserved for when they're all wearing baggies and have their stunt pegs on their Burners.

johnmcdnl · 03-06-2020 10:22pm

double jobbing wrote: »

Certainly the idea of people going at 35kph being put in a position where they see a distant speed van and jam the breaks seems like a recipe for a pile up.

How in the name of christ would a line of cars drivingat 35kmph hitting the brakes to get down to 30kmph result in a pile up? Why isn't there pile ups at rush hour every day as people hit brakes when they see a red light in front of them, or when a pedestrian runs across the road.
And how would it be any different to someone seeing a speed van while at 55kmph or 105kmph be any different?

Even if there was, you'd have a bunch of cars hitting each others bumpers so the damage would be minimal in the absolute worst case

Truthvader · 03-06-2020 10:30pm

Springy Turf wrote: »

It might seem like people prefer to sit in a car because they still dominate the road space, but in fact as of 2017, only 30% of people crossing the canal into town at rush hour travel by car. 50% by bus. 18% active transport. And the trend it recent years for car use is going down.

Reference: NTA Canal Cordon Report 2017

Car usage is being driven down by Dublin City Council and the parade of supporters here. That is nothing to do with what people actually prefer. Know what I prefer. Anyone who can afford to drives - or walks in fairness. Bicycles and buses are the second rate second choice. Original question asked was why anyone would sit in a car travelling at walking pace. The answer is because they can.

magicbastarder · 03-06-2020 10:40pm

Truthvader wrote: »

Anyone who can afford to drives

true, lots of people are able to earn lots of money but not understand the sunk cost fallacy.

Andrewf20 · 03-06-2020 10:41pm

Seems completely draconian. Are there any stats that show an uptick in pedestrian or cycling accidents since February?

It could be argued that with less cars on the road, visibility of bikes and people is better.

magicbastarder · 03-06-2020 10:49pm

Andrewf20 wrote: »

Seems completely draconian. Are there any stats that show an uptick in pedestrian or cycling accidents since February?

It could be argued that with less cars on the road, visibility of bikes and people is better.

a doubling of pedestrian fatalities to the end of april, compared to last year.
one factor is that with fewer cars on the road, the average speed of cars appears to have increased.

https://www.rsa.ie/en/Utility/News/2020/Concern-over-speeding-drivers-as-number-of-pedestrian-deaths-doubles-in-2020-/

ILoveYourVibes · 03-06-2020 10:51pm

How is a speed limit going to stop covid?

I mean it could mean people are stuck on bus with others longer??

magicbastarder · 03-06-2020 10:52pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

How is a speed limit going to stop covid?

who claimed it was?

tjhook · 03-06-2020 11:37pm

These things are cyclical (!)

For years the Mad Max drivers had their way.

Now the Cycling Taliban are enforcing their dogma.

In another few years, electric self-driving cars will be common and safe, and we'll be cracking down on these dangerous cyclists who bring chaos to an otherwise ordered automated system.

punisher5112 · 04-06-2020 1:00am

One major factor for the extra deaths is really down to the amount out walking that have never before or nowhere near as much.

I've never seen so many walkers, runners or cyclists in my life and as a bus driver I'm not surprised that deaths have increased but also surprised it's not higher....

Another big thing is big families with all the kids and them letting extremely young ones out on the road, this imo is a disaster waiting to happen as they are weaving and unsteady.... Of course extra room is given but of course not by all.

People seriously need to take personal responsibility and take a look at their own actions.

The amount of people I've come very close to killing over the past few months has been unreal compared to normal as it were before.

Funny thing is with less traffic, no traffic jams I seen more and more stressed out drivers or just absolute numpties driving dangerous just because they could.

The only Gardai I see now are those doing speed checks and haven't seen a checkpoint I'm around 2 weeks or so....

magicbastarder · 04-06-2020 8:46am

tjhook wrote: »

Now the Cycling Taliban are enforcing their dogma.

keep it up, this is great to read.

tjhook · 04-06-2020 8:54am

magicbastarder wrote: »

keep it up, this is great to read.

Thanks, I will.

Hurrache · 04-06-2020 9:07am

punisher5112 wrote: »

The amount of people I've come very close to killing over the past few months has been unreal compared to normal as it were before.

Did you just injure them instead, or in fact did something simply not happen? You said yourself that you see kids out on bikes, and are aware that they don't exactly take a dead ahead heading, so I'm also sure you give them a wide berth when driving by them. Unless they took a dramatic swerve right as you were going by them, I imagine you're using creative licence when you claim to close to killing some amount of people.

Thelonious Monk · 04-06-2020 9:17am

tjhook wrote: »

these dangerous cyclists who bring chaos

can you expand on this? what danger?

seamus · 04-06-2020 9:21am

Hurrache wrote: »

I imagine you're using creative licence when you claim to close to killing some amount of people.

As a bus driver I would hope so. If "coming close to killing someone" is a common occurrence, it casts serious doubt on the individual's competence.

tjhook · 04-06-2020 9:35am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

can you expand on this? what danger?

I think you're taking the post a bit too literally. Every group seems to think every other group is a danger. The only thing that changes is which group is in the ascendancy, and thus on their high horse. It used to be drivers, now it's cyclists. I'm imagining a time when the pendulum swings again.

Seth Brundle · 04-06-2020 9:38am

tjhook wrote: »

I think you're taking the post a bit too literally. Every group seems to think every other group is a danger. The only thing that changes is which group is in the ascendancy, and thus on their high horse. It used to be drivers, now it's cyclists. I'm imagining a time when the pendulum swings again.

So you're saying that the cyclists that you described as dangerous are not in fact dangerous?

Dravokivich · 04-06-2020 9:38am

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Thats how slow we have to drive through school zones here , which consist of a few hundred feet at certain times of the day only. Cant imagine having to go that slow on normal roads and for extended periods. Youd be constantly looking at the speedometer to check you werent going too fast.

No you wont. 30kph is easy to keep to. The problem is others who dont.

Personally I dont mind it, since the speed limit is justified. I dont feel it is however. Protecting pedestrians? We are all pedestrians when out of the car.

Chiparus · 04-06-2020 9:41am

Average speeds may increase ironically.

Hurrache · 04-06-2020 9:44am

I think someone asked what difference it would make
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Dravokivich · 04-06-2020 9:57am

Hurrache wrote: »

I think someone asked what difference it would make

It's not something that happens and is more likely to with lower speed limits becuase we've told people they dont have to be responsible when walking about.

Hurrache · 04-06-2020 10:02am

Dravokivich wrote: »

we've told people they dont have to be responsible when walking about.

Thanks, something less to worry about.

Dravokivich · 04-06-2020 10:03am

Hurrache wrote: »

Thanks, something less to worry about.

The sections with lower speed limits in the city, tend to be the areas where people just stroll onto the road without looking around first.

If you want to protect pedestrians, remind them they are also road users first.

tjhook · 04-06-2020 10:09am

Seth Brundle wrote: »

So you're saying that the cyclists that you described as dangerous are not in fact dangerous?

I'm saying the cyclists would claim not to be, whereas some others would say they are (as seen in this thread).

Oddly enough, no driver has gotten their knickers in a twist over my suggestion that drivers can be seen as having "Mad Max" tendencies. I wonder if they will. Or maybe cyclists and drivers really are different breeds.

Seth Brundle · 04-06-2020 10:09am

Dravokivich wrote: »

It's not something that happens and is more likely to with lower speed limits becuase we've told people they dont have to be responsible when walking about.

Where have you ever heard that apart from a conversation you overheard down the pub?

Thelonious Monk · 04-06-2020 10:14am

Oh for all of you who think less cars in the city and more restrictions is destroying commerce in the city centre, here's yet another example on how less cars = better business

https://twitter.com/GeogheganCllr/status/1268199570430967812

Dravokivich · 04-06-2020 10:18am

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Where have you ever heard that apart from a conversation you overheard down the pub?

Its what I see when driving. The lower speed limit sections in the city have more people coming out onto the roads without looking. The sections with 50kph, people generally always look before they step onto the road. Their behaviour has changed in because they think it's safer in those environments. We've encouraged carelessness by proxy.

ehm... why did you ask about conversations overheard in a pub?

Thelonious Monk · 04-06-2020 10:20am

Dravokivich wrote: »

Its what I see when driving. The lower speed limit sections in the city have more people coming out onto the roads without looking. The sections with 50kph, people generally always look before they step onto the road. Their behaviour has changed in because they think it's safer in those environments. We've encouraged carelessness by proxy.

ehm... why did you ask about conversations overheard in a pub?

I guess people need to be more alert to pedestrians in that case.

Dravokivich · 04-06-2020 10:25am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I guess people need to be more alert to pedestrians in that case.

Then why stop at 30? why not go lower? If we are to protect them. Are some people too sensitive to be told how to use the road correctly?

Stark · 04-06-2020 10:35am

Dravokivich wrote: »

Then why stop at 30? why not go lower? If we are to protect them. Are some people too sensitive to be told how to use the road correctly?

This whole thread was started by someone being oversensitive about being told how to use the road correctly.

Thelonious Monk · 04-06-2020 10:40am

Dravokivich wrote: »

Then why stop at 30? why not go lower? If we are to protect them. Are some people too sensitive to be told how to use the road correctly?

Well yes why stop at 30, we should be aiming at having less and less cars on the road, then speed limits wouldn't be an issue, especially in areas where there are lots of cyclists and pedestrians.

punisher5112 · 04-06-2020 10:44am

Let me clarify in the comments I made, as a bus driver we have a particular set of skills.... This is reading the road ahead, beside and behind....

In near 80% of the time we know when the person is going to step out, run out or can see the cyclist will change direction before they even decided to.

What's happening more over this unforseen pandemic is the amount now that don't look and give no pre warning they are going to do stupid things.

And for the stupid comments made towards me, yes of course I can see the kids and know they are wobbly and could swerve so won't pass until I can give much more room then usual if that makes sense to you.

It's serious out there and one thing I've noticed with the 30km/h speed limits is more pedestrian and cyclists take bigger risks and will just walk out or cycle across in front.

Dravokivich · 04-06-2020 10:45am

Stark wrote: »

This whole thread was started by someone being oversensitive about being told how to use the road correctly.

Well their problem is of their own making really. I can see where some areas will justify the limit. And ideologically have no issues with it. But I can't agree to just pushing the narrative that a driver has the ultimate duty of care. And if the purpose of this is to protect pedestrians, what's being done for me when I'm a pedestrian?

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Well yes why stop at 30, we should be aiming at having less and less cars on the road, then speed limits wouldn't be an issue, especially in areas where there are lots of cyclists and pedestrians.

I don't agree with that either. Cars for the most part seem to be the viable option, take away the viable option and you are limiting people. Take away on street parking. Use the extra space for Public transport, cycleways, footpaths.

Dravokivich · 04-06-2020 10:47am

punisher5112 wrote: »

It's serious out there and one thing I've noticed with the 30km/h speed limits is more pedestrian and cyclists take bigger risks and will just walk out or cycle across in front.

And I'm pretty sure I haven't gone to the same pub as this guy!

magicbastarder · 04-06-2020 10:52am

punisher5112 wrote: »

In near 80% of the time we ... can see the cyclist will change direction before they even decided to.

you're in the wrong job, you should be a professional lotto player.

Dravokivich · 04-06-2020 10:53am

magicbastarder wrote: »

you're in the wrong job, you should be a professional lotto player.

Well if his game is reading people, surely it'll be poker?

magicbastarder · 04-06-2020 10:57am

to be fair, you do get a sixth sense - be it driving or cycling - about the behaviour of other drivers, cyclists, or peds. more a 'i'll keep a close eye on this one' though.

Stark · 04-06-2020 11:05am

Dravokivich wrote: »

Well their problem is of their own making really. I can see where some areas will justify the limit. And ideologically have no issues with it. But I can't agree to just pushing the narrative that a driver has the ultimate duty of care. And if the purpose of this is to protect pedestrians, what's being done for me when I'm a pedestrian?

Are pedestrians who also drive a special class of pedestrian or something? You get the ability to step out on the road to give more space to other pedestrians on crowded narrow footpaths without getting mowed down. Ideally the footpaths should be widened to give space to pedestrians, but making the road safer is a good interim step.

Hurrache · 04-06-2020 11:10am

Dravokivich wrote: »

Their behaviour has changed in because they think it's safer in those environments

But it is.

Dravokivich · 04-06-2020 11:15am

Stark wrote: »

Are pedestrians who also drive a special class of pedestrian or something? You get the ability to step out on the road to give more space to other pedestrians on crowded narrow footpaths without getting mowed down. Ideally the footpaths should be widened to give space to pedestrians, but making the road safer is a good interim step.

The thing I wanted to get across is we are all pedestrians. But no activities seem to be in place for pedestrians. It's all focused on drivers. The cheapest and easiest thing to do is change the sign from 50 to 30. Paint 30 on a few spots on the road.

No review of pedestrian crossings and timings on any that have traffic lights for them. No surveying of where people typically step out to assess if a crossing is better suited there.

Too much work.

Hurrache wrote: »

But it is.

Only a fool would ever think a road is safe enough to step onto without looking.

A 30 KPH limit for Dublin

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