Weekend Boxing Thread (Dubois v Joyce & Jacobs v Rosado)

ctrl-alt-delete · 29-11-2020 12:44am

normanoffside wrote: »

Big Joe doesn't look like he was even fighting tonight.

He said in his interview he is blessed with a good chin, I think he is blessed with a body that doesn't need much oxygen either. Frank Warren is taking deeper breaths at the moment.

walshb · 29-11-2020 12:46am

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

He said in his interview he is blessed with a good chin, I think he is blessed with a body that doesn't need much oxygen either. Frank Warren is taking deeper breaths at the moment.

The chin still has been tested against real power. DD struggled to land any dynamite!

Wilder and AJ both spark him badly!

Joeseph Balls · 29-11-2020 12:46am

Carl had Dubois ahead. Did anyone here have him ahead?
I had JJ ahead by two but in fairness, a lot were close

squinn2912 · 29-11-2020 12:46am

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

He said in his interview he is blessed with a good chin, I think he is blessed with a body that doesn't need much oxygen either. Frank Warren is taking deeper breaths at the moment.

Hahaha fantastic comment. Joe is a horrible talker but he did the business tonight and I hope he gets a world title fight. I think Usyk would be too slick for him. That’s knee looks worse and worse.

generalgerry · 29-11-2020 12:46am

I think Joe Joyce deserves a massive slap on the back. Does that mean that he becomes mandatory for one of AJs belts?

Big Ears · 29-11-2020 12:47am

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

He said in his interview he is blessed with a good chin, I think he is blessed with a body that doesn't need much oxygen either. Frank Warren is taking deeper breaths at the moment.

He takes the sloth approach of conserving energy by moving his (upper) limbs so slowly !

earthwormjack · 29-11-2020 12:48am

Joeseph Balls wrote: »

Carl had Dubois ahead. Did anyone here have him ahead?
I had JJ ahead by two but in fairness, a lot were close

I had Dubois 1 ahead but it really could have been the opposite as well. Some rounds were tough to score.

selectamatic · 29-11-2020 12:48am

Joeseph Balls wrote: »

Carl had Dubois ahead. Did anyone here have him ahead?
I had JJ ahead by two but in fairness, a lot were close

Someone on Espn Latin America had Dubois up by about 4-5rds :pac:

Miccoli · 29-11-2020 12:50am

normanoffside wrote: »

I think Joyce is a tank though tbf, Excellent Chin.

I remember saying on Joyce's debut that he was already a cut above the Whyte's and Chisora's etc. I think just being big, strong and a good chin with an engine really goes a long way in HW.

Yeah Joyce undoubtedly has a solid chin. I Just think that it's very worrying for Dubois as his whole game plan is based around power and he didn't even buzz Joyce. I'm not impressed with the stiffness of Dubois or his defence so if his power doesn't carry up past British/European level I don't think he has a chance at world level.

generalgerry · 29-11-2020 12:50am

Nathan Gorman on the Twitter machine

Great fight&#55358;&#56650; Daniel will come again congratulations
@JoeJoyceBoxing and @mrsamjones88 fantastic result

Decent of him not to dance on DDD's grave.

walshb · 29-11-2020 12:54am

earthwormjack wrote: »

I had Dubois 1 ahead but it really could have been the opposite as well. Some rounds were tough to score.

I had him 1 up as well..

He definitely landed the better shots throughout..

MD1990 · 29-11-2020 12:55am

lack of head movement from Dubois was terrible.

generalgerry · 29-11-2020 12:56am

walshb wrote: »

I had him 1 up as well.. He definitely landed the better shots throughout..

I think he may regret not just throwing the kitchen sink at Joyce after he realised the eye was closed completely.

generalgerry · 29-11-2020 12:56am

Is there anybody staying up for the Tyson fight. (still can't believe that I am actually saying that)

squinn2912 · 29-11-2020 12:57am

I had Joyce up by 2. There was 1 possibly 2 rounds where Dubois threw a nice combo and then did nothing else. Joyce didn’t do a huge amount but he got the jabs in and won the other 2 mins for me. A lot of close rounds.

squinn2912 · 29-11-2020 12:59am

generalgerry wrote: »

I think he may regret not just throwing the kitchen sink at Joyce after he realised the eye was closed completely.

I agree. The kitchen sink probably should’ve come earlier. I think after the 9th Joyce knew Dubois was bolliixed

normanoffside · 29-11-2020 1:02am

generalgerry wrote: »

Is there anybody staying up for the Tyson fight. (still can't believe that I am actually saying that)

No

Morrison J · 29-11-2020 1:04am

Really enjoyed that. Fair play to Joyce. Could feel it was his sort of fight from the start when he was winning the jab exchanges. Dubois really struggled to get him on the backfoot and gain any sort of momentum.

Feel for Dubois. That eye was horrendous and I've no idea why a doctor didn't have a look at it. He took a massive risk that he didn't have to take. Definitely think he'll come again.

Morrison J · 29-11-2020 1:05am

generalgerry wrote: »

I think Joe Joyce deserves a massive slap on the back. Does that mean that he becomes mandatory for one of AJs belts?

He'll be number 2 with the WBO. So if Joshua vacates it'll be Joyce v Usyk for the title.

generalgerry · 29-11-2020 1:07am

Morrison J wrote: »

He'll be number 2 with the WBO. So if Joshua vacates it'll be Joyce v Usyk for the title.

Why is there talk of Joshua vacating though? I heard them say that on BT, but why would AJ give up a belt, it's not like he is gonna go up to Super Heavyweight.

squinn2912 · 29-11-2020 1:07am

Can you really see Joshua vacate? If he wants to become undisputed then surely he wont.

eagle eye · 29-11-2020 1:10am

generalgerry wrote:

Is there anybody staying up for the Tyson fight. (still can't believe that I am actually saying that)

Not a chance. Absolute joke with the no knockout, cut ends the fight rules.

Morrison J · 29-11-2020 1:13am

generalgerry wrote: »

Why is there talk of Joshua vacating though? I heard them say that on BT, but why would AJ give up a belt, it's not like he is gonna go up to Super Heavyweight.

The WBO are making him fight Usyk next but Joshua is trying to make a fight with Fury. He can either fight Usyk next or bin the belt and fight Fury. Only other option is to pay Usyk off to wait but Usyk has said he doesn't want that.

I'd be surprised if Joshua took a risk as big as Usyk with the Fury pay day there for him. Makes sense for him to bin the belt.

colly10 · 29-11-2020 1:17am

eagle eye wrote: »

Not a chance. Absolute joke with the no knockout, cut ends the fight rules.

I can half understand it being PPV seeing as it’s 2 legends and seeing what they have left. With those rules it’s madness though, imagine paying for that and the ref stops it over a cut 😂

29-11-2020 1:51am

One judge had Dubois up eight rounds, is that right?

x PyRo · 29-11-2020 11:12am

https://twitter.com/BillyJones93/status/1332830359311048705?s=19

Hahaha, jesus.

The Nal · 29-11-2020 11:36am

Dreadful stuff from Dubois. Found out. No aggression, no killer instinct, no head movement, no plan B. Just got clipped with the same jab dozens of times and then gave up.

A good thing he was only in there with Joyce and not a killer.

walshb · 29-11-2020 11:53am

The Nal wrote: »

Dreadful stuff from Dubois. Found out. No aggression, no killer instinct, no head movement, no plan B. Just got clipped with the same jab dozens of times and then gave up.

A good thing he was only in there with Joyce and not a killer.

Yes

Agree..

Some here seem to think Joyce was very good

I thought both were exactly as they always were..

Dubois worse than I thought..

Very predictable, slow, novice like..no real dynamism or variation or venom..

Plod plod plod..

Just not seeing it with either..

Usyk-Joyce would be interesting

And if Joyce had any decent speed of foot and hand, I’d give him a good chance..

walshb · 29-11-2020 11:59am

Deleted User wrote: »

One judge had Dubois up eight rounds, is that right?

I’d have to watch again, but several rds were very close, so wide scores either way could well be justified!

walshb · 29-11-2020 12:24pm

Just on the quit angle:

Although I believe that he quit, and agreed with Frampton: the claim from any boxer that they’d never quit and have to be carried out of the ring is silly..And could come back to bite them on the arse!

No man knows when that fight could come where their mind and body betrays them. They are humans. Not machines..

And the definition of quit is subjective..

Morrison J · 29-11-2020 4:10pm

I thought it was nice that BT called it what it was to be fair. Their cash cow quit and they called him out on it. Compare that to how Sky reacted to when Joshua quit on the first Ruiz fight making phantom panic attack excuses etc and it's actually quite refreshing.

I don't take issue with Dubois there at all either. He's 23 and clearly still learning on the job. Panic set in quick and really his corner should have saved him. Get the doctor to take a look and call it off and make the narrative about how Dubois was brave and wanted to continue so he can save face.

selectamatic · 29-11-2020 5:02pm

Being knocked down a few times over the course of a few rounds by heavy punches is a bit different to simply taking a knee while actually being slightly ahead in a fight though.

But I'd also agree that Dubois was right not to risk feckin up that eye even further considering he's so young in hw terms.

A poster here made an excellent point that he could have gone for a minute hail mary burst but I suppose he must have been too fatigued.

squinn2912 · 29-11-2020 6:05pm

selectamatic wrote: »

Being knocked down a few times over the course of a few rounds by heavy punches is a bit different to simply taking a knee while actually being slightly ahead in a fight though.

But I'd also agree that Dubois was right not to risk feckin up that eye even further considering he's so young in hw terms.

A poster here made an excellent point that he could have gone for a minute hail mary burst but I suppose he must have been too fatigued.

I remember that point and it was a better way of putting the point I was making at that time. I think ddd corner were very poor. His eye was closed And they sent him out. The ref should’ve been calling the doctor in too. With kell brook it was totally different, he was at the latter end of his career with a belt to cling on to. Dubois risking his sight at 23 in just a stepping stone fight isn’t a sensible move. He’s got time to come again twice

The Nal · 30-11-2020 10:53am

Not buying the "hes so young" thing as an excuse either. Different eras I know but look at Klitschko, Tyson, Ali, Foreman, Floyd Patterson, Joe Louis, Jack Dempsey and others. All champions by that age. None quit on their knee.

I was bigging Dubois up as much as anyone but he just doesn't have it. Not a killer.

yourdeadwright · 30-11-2020 3:39pm

The Nal wrote: »

Not buying the "hes so young" thing as an excuse either. Different eras I know but look at Klitschko, Tyson, Ali, Foreman, Floyd Patterson, Joe Louis, Jack Dempsey and others. All champions by that age. None quit on their knee.

I was bigging Dubois up as much as anyone but he just doesn't have it. Not a killer.

I felt the same as you on the night but looking at it now it looks like a very serious eye injury ,

It's not like it was a bad cut or a broken jaw or another injury you can battle through, He could have lost his eye ,

My worry for DDD is it happens again and again which we have seen before with broken orbital bones,

The Nal · 30-11-2020 4:24pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I felt the same as you on the night but looking at it now it looks like a very serious eye injury ,

It's not like it was a bad cut or a broken jaw or another injury you can battle through, He could have lost his eye ,

My worry for DDD is it happens again and again which we have seen before with broken orbital bones,

Yeah this is maybe where the corner should've jumped in and kept him in his seat or thrown the towel in. Surely they would've known the extent of the injury?

Kell Brook fought 3 rounds with a broken eye socket against GGG and was still throwing when the towel was thrown in.

walshb · 30-11-2020 4:51pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I felt the same as you on the night but looking at it now it looks like a very serious eye injury ,

It's not like it was a bad cut or a broken jaw or another injury you can battle through, He could have lost his eye ,

My worry for DDD is it happens again and again which we have seen before with broken orbital bones,

Yes, but boxers aren't actively thinking of how bad the injury is....they are in fighting mode doing their thing....

I think the eye was a bit of a red herring....he simply had enough and decided to give up; I don't think he was thinking in any kind of medical sense here...

As in: I need to preserve my eyesight here....

eagle eye · 30-11-2020 4:55pm

walshb wrote: »

Yes, but boxers aren't actively thinking of how bad the injury is....they are in fighting mode doing their thing....

I think the eye was a bit of a red herring....he simply had enough and decided to give up; I don;t think he was thinking in any kind of medical sense here...

As in: I need to preserve my eyesight here....

If he couldn't see out of his eye and knew it wasn't going to go well then he might have made a very good decision for the long term future of his career.
We have no way of knowing why he decided to quit.

Morrison J · 30-11-2020 5:15pm

The Nal wrote: »

Yeah this is maybe where the corner should've jumped in and kept him in his seat or thrown the towel in. Surely they would've known the extent of the injury?

Kell Brook fought 3 rounds with a broken eye socket against GGG and was still throwing when the towel was thrown in.

I don't think Kell Brook is a great example of a guy who doesn't have a quit in him tbf. Ingle did him a massive favour in the GGG fight stopping the fight before it got out of hand though. Took all the flak off Brooks shoulders and Brook got loads of credit for being brave etc. Exactly what Dubois trainer should have done on Saturday.

walshb · 30-11-2020 5:17pm

eagle eye wrote: »

If he couldn't see out of his eye and knew it wasn't going to go well then he might have made a very good decision for the long term future of his career.
We have no way of knowing why he decided to quit.

Well, his interview after kind of sold it to me that he had enough and wanted out....

May have been simply spooked by being distressed in there...

First time in any trouble in his career, and he was discombobulated....

Morrison J · 30-11-2020 5:30pm

The Nal wrote: »

I was bigging Dubois up as much as anyone but he just doesn't have it. Not a killer.

I think it's way too early to make a statement like this though.

Look at Vitali. Quit against Chris Byrd and went on to the Hall of Fame. Fought Lennox with his eye slice open nearly showing bone. You've got to take these things on a case by case basis for me. I even think now that Dubois has quit once and is taking all this flak for it he may be more likely to force his way through it when he's in deep water again. Every fighter is different and it's all speculation until Dubois gets to prove otherwise really.

Morrison J · 30-11-2020 5:37pm

selectamatic wrote: »

Being knocked down a few times over the course of a few rounds by heavy punches is a bit different to simply taking a knee while actually being slightly ahead in a fight though.

I think when you're facing a potentially career changing injury a quit is much more acceptable to just having the fight beat out of you and not wanting to go on like Joshua did to be fair.

The Nal · 30-11-2020 5:43pm

Morrison J wrote: »

I think it's way too early to make a statement like this though.

Look at Vitali. Quit against Chris Byrd and went on to the Hall of Fame. Fought Lennox with his eye slice open nearly showing bone. You've got to take these things on a case by case basis for me. I even think now that Dubois has quit once and is taking all this flak for it he may be more likely to force his way through it when he's in deep water again. Every fighter is different and it's all speculation until Dubois gets to prove otherwise really.

True, but Vitali was a veteran at that stage. He made up for it after albeit in the worst era in HW boxing since the 50s.

I like Dubois, hoping he comes back but he'll need to come back roaring hungry to get people back onside. Promoters too. They're not going to throw money at someone they think will pack it in during a war.

selectamatic · 30-11-2020 6:00pm

Morrison J wrote: »

I think when you're facing a potentially career changing injury a quit is much more acceptable to just having the fight beat out of you and not wanting to go on like Joshua did to be fair.

Dubois was still winning the fight though.

AJ quit too I'm not excusing that but losing the fight and down a few times with your legs still not under ya after getting up is a more normal position to think about quitting from isn't it? Still not at all acceptable from a champ.

Quitting while uderstandable especially when your corner don't do their job and the fight doctor is no where to be seen but I dunno would I say it's ever really acceptable.

Fighters aren't really supposed to be put in a position where they themselves have to decide to quit or not. Cornermen and fight doctors are supposed to make these decisions for them.

Morrison J · 30-11-2020 6:36pm

selectamatic wrote: »

Dubois was still winning the fight though.

AJ quit too I'm not excusing that but losing the fight and down a few times with your legs still not under ya after getting up is a more normal position to think about quitting from isn't it? Still not at all acceptable from a champ.

Quitting while uderstandable especially when your corner don't do their job and the fight doctor is no where to be seen but I dunno would I say it's ever really acceptable.

Fighters aren't really supposed to be put in a position where they themselves have to decide to quit or not. Cornermen and fight doctors are supposed to make these decisions for them.

Do you think they take the cards that much into account when deciding to quit? I think in heavyweight boxing you should want to hang in there as long as physically possible and back yourself to get the knockout. He had Ruiz standing in the pocket in front of him and had already knocked him down earlier in the fight.

Even taking the cards into account, Joshua was somehow up on one and only down by a round on the other two.

I agree it should come down to the corners at the end of the day and they need to know their fighters. Dubois' body language was off from early in the fight and the corner should have seen that and stepped in. If you have a fighter like Carl Froch who would never pack it in and can turn a fight around like he did against Groves or Taylor than that's a different story mind. It's a case by case, fighter by fighter type of thing.

walshb · 01-12-2020 12:10pm

Morrison J wrote: »

like Carl Froch who would never pack it in and can turn a fight around like he did against Groves or Taylor than that's a different story mind. It's a case by case, fighter by fighter type of thing.

Froch was in both those fights giving a fair bit back...

Groves was taking a fair amount of leather off Froch as well, and Froch wasn't badly injured or suffering with closing eyes etc....

With couple rds before he stopped George, you could see that Froch was beginning to take over and getting stronger....

I think a better example was Corrales coming back in fight 1 vs Castillo....

Or Gatti in round 9 vs Ward gritting the teeth and in agony and summoning up all he had to fight back to survive...

Morrison J · 01-12-2020 3:40pm

walshb wrote: »

Froch was in both those fights giving a fair bit back...

Groves was taking a fair amount of leather off Froch as well, and Froch wasn't badly injured or suffering with closing eyes etc....

With couple rds before he stopped George, you could see that Froch was beginning to take over and getting stronger....

I think a better example was Corrales coming back in fight 1 vs Castillo....

Or Gatti in round 9 vs Ward gritting the teeth and in agony and summoning up all he had to fight back to survive...

I was using the Froch fights as examples of a fighter being clearly down on the cards though. There was no argument to have him up against Groves or Taylor he was getting dominated until he turned the tide. Some fighters with less mental strength might well have packed it in in that sort of situation. Dropped and buzzed multiple times by Groves. Joshua gets dropped and buzzed by Ruiz and he quits.

Corrales/Castillo and Gatti/Ward were close fights where you could make an argument for either winning at the time of the stoppage.

walshb · 01-12-2020 4:20pm

Morrison J wrote: »

I was using the Froch fights as examples of a fighter being clearly down on the cards though. There was no argument to have him up against Groves or Taylor he was getting dominated until he turned the tide. Some fighters with less mental strength might well have packed it in in that sort of situation. Dropped and buzzed multiple times by Groves. Joshua gets dropped and buzzed by Ruiz and he quits.

Corrales/Castillo and Gatti/Ward were close fights where you could make an argument for either winning at the time of the stoppage.

But my point was the state that both were in during rds 10 and 9 respectively I think it was...

Both badly hurt, almost done for, and hung in, bit down, retaliated and saved themselves admirably...

Weekend Boxing Thread (Dubois v Joyce & Jacobs v Rosado)

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