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Comments

  • #52
    dunie001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 179 ✭✭dunie001


    Yes there is a point to external insulation if you have a cavity wall...

    The cavity can only be filled with 100mm of insulation at the max...adding another 150mm of insulation to the outside will seriously decrease the u-value of the wall which will mean lower heating costs.

    Although the wall of your house will be very wide...lol!:D

    Thanks for the feedback Quazzie...

    But you should really reconsider on the master bed and bedroom 1. Even a small decrease in bedroom 1 will make the master bedroom more square...making it even more like a hotel room! Don't forget the mini-bar!


  • #53
    Slig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,550 ✭✭✭Slig


    dunie001 wrote: »
    Yes there is a point to external insulation if you have a cavity wall...

    The cavity can only be filled with 100mm of insulation at the max...adding another 150mm of insulation to the outside will seriously decrease the u-value of the wall which will mean lower heating costs.

    Although the wall of your house will be very wide...lol!:D

    Thanks for the feedback Quazzie...

    But you should really reconsider on the master bed and bedroom 1. Even a small decrease in bedroom 1 will make the master bedroom more square...making it even more like a hotel room! Don't forget the mini-bar!

    Why go to the expense and hassle of creating a cavity to fill it with insulation and then clad the outside with more of the same material. It will be quicker, cheaper and easier to just build 215 and add 100mm extra to your external insulation. It will also be more structurally sound and have less cold bridges


  • #54
    dunie001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 179 ✭✭dunie001


    If you do that though you're allowing water to travel directly across the block into the house...there's no water barrier whatsoever if you don't have a cavity.

    And who knows how long the insulation will hold up against all the battering it'll get by rain/snow/frost etc. etc. 40yrs maybe but i doubt the insulation would still be doing it's job properly after 200yrs!!!


  • #55
    Quazzie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,064 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    I probably should add that I meant and externally insulated 9inch solid block wall. 200mm insulation on the exterior of a solid wall should be adequate and provide minimal thermal bridging(except at floor level.


  • #56
    inchbyinch
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭inchbyinch


    dunie001 wrote: »
    If you do that though you're allowing water to travel directly across the block into the house...there's no water barrier whatsoever if you don't have a cavity.

    And who knows how long the insulation will hold up against all the battering it'll get by rain/snow/frost etc. etc. 40yrs maybe but i doubt the insulation would still be doing it's job properly after 200yrs!!!

    This issue continues to bug me......water egress through a wall, full fill, partial fill insulation, AAC and Porton.

    1) AAC & clay suppliers say they have breathable product and can build a single leaf wall?? is this the case or is it sales tripe......I have seen their building data sheets in which they suggest this method of construction and have seen it previously on Czech magazine (didn't understand the language) as a suitable method of construction.:confused:

    2) Full fill cavity insulation......is it a viable option??:confused:

    3) where does the magic 40mm air cavity come from in the regs.....plucked out of the clouds or is there a reasonable logic behind it??:confused:

    4) With regard to the BER certs I find it very hard to see how a passive standard house can be passed as an A2 house.....Is A next to impossible to achieve and does it nearly always have to be Timber frame or is there an alternative available.:confused::confused::confused:

    Now with regards to this house!!
    I have been reading this tread with great interest and Quazzie2002 what a great idea....I have been trying to muster up the Liathroidi to start on my own build but as you can see from the above questions I have many dilemmas which I have to over come before I get to final design stage.

    With regard to your design I like the layout alot....especially the future proofing idea, couldn't agree more with that.....upstairs is great but I would suggest putting a second door to bedroom two to make it a quazzi ensuite or alternatively you could put in an extra bathroom in the unused space in bedroom three and then you would have two half ensuites but they are great for having guests over and girls when they get older (advised to me by a friend who has four teenage girls!!! 19-14) as they have the privacy of not having to walk on the landing and stuff like that!!

    The internal down pipes in front may pose difficulties also...I've seen it done but only on stone finishes where you can hide the dp in the stone, external to the wall!!

    If i think of any more comments ill let you know!!

    Rgds
    Inchy
    :cool::cool::cool:


  • #57
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,837 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    dunie001 wrote: »
    Yes there is a point to external insulation if you have a cavity wall...

    no theres not...

    if externally insulating, simply use 215 block internally....

    simply principles.. .keep all you insulation together, keep all your thermal mass together...


  • #58
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,837 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    inchbyinch wrote: »
    4) With regard to the BER certs I find it very hard to see how a passive standard house can be passed as an A2 house..


    'BER and passive house' are chalk and cheese... stones and beatles... nirvana and pearl jam....

    You simply cannot compare the two. They are not interchangable.

    It is disingenuous to try...


  • #59
    smashey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,676 ✭✭✭✭smashey


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    nirvana and pearl jam....

    You simply cannot compare the two.
    :D


  • #60
    Quazzie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,064 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    Can anyone comment on the price comparison of External insulation as compared to the method I have pointed out above. Reading online I've seen vastly ranging figures from €149 - €220 per sqM which means roughly speaking mine would cost €43k+ for just the external walls. To me that seem excessive.

    That price compared to my method, or even my method with pumped bead insulation (cheaper again) seems to be astronomical. Is there any other benefit to external insulation that I'm missing?


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  • #61
    RKQ
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭RKQ


    Just a quick point, (with my stupid hat on!)
    100mm Aeroboard 8 x 4 sheets cost circa €15 each, even allowing for extra long mushroom fixings, external paper / breather felt, stainless steel mesh, deeper cills etc - (I know you propose 125mm thick insulation)

    How does it cost 45K to externally insulate a new build?


  • #62
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,837 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Quazzie2002 wrote: »
    Can anyone comment on the price comparison of External insulation as compared to the method I have pointed out above. Reading online I've seen vastly ranging figures from €149 - €220 per sqM which means roughly speaking mine would cost €43k+ for just the external walls. To me that seem excessive.

    That price compared to my method, or even my method with pumped bead insulation (cheaper again) seems to be astronomical. Is there any other benefit to external insulation that I'm missing?

    The benefits of external insulation over traditional build is the much reduced thermal bridge factor.

    If you are considering external insulation then you shoul dreally be looking at a whole house insulation wrap.. and not just the walls..... this means having an insulated foundation system.

    Yes it is expensive, possibly on a par with ICF and slightly less than SIPS...
    as far as i know acrylic render can cost 50 a sq m
    but to be honest you probably would be talking about 30% extra on build costs... maybe thats not achievable....

    Those other prices would be a higher spec.. ie at least 200mm polystyrene.. 300 in some cases.

    most external insulation companies price for the insulation, fitting, and render.....


  • #63
    Quazzie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,064 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    RKQ wrote: »
    Just a quick point, (with my stupid hat on!)
    100mm Aeroboard 8 x 4 sheets cost circa €15 each, even allowing for extra long mushroom fixings, external paper / breather felt, stainless steel mesh, deeper cills etc - (I know you propose 125mm thick insulation)

    How does it cost 45K to externally insulate a new build?
    Sorry RKQ I reached that rough figure based on the price of €149 per square metre of external wall. That price is a rough price based on quote I've seen online and includes 365mm insulation(possibly overkill??) & render. I might be way off with that price and in fact I hope I am.


  • #64
    Quazzie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,064 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    The benefits of external insulation over traditional build is the much reduced thermal bridge factor.

    If you are considering external insulation then you shoul dreally be looking at a whole house insulation wrap.. and not just the walls..... this means having an insulated foundation system.
    Thats something that I haven't been able to get my head around. the fact the floor insulation and the wall insulation don't meet, so there wouldn't be a "wrap around" as you suggest, but I'm sure that its possible is the way you are talking.
    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Yes it is expensive, possibly on a par with ICF and slightly less than SIPS...
    as far as i know acrylic render can cost 50 a sq m
    but to be honest you probably would be talking about 30% extra on build costs... maybe thats not achievable....
    I feel it might be just out of my price range because of that. As a self builder anything that requires such specific installation techniques, and costs, does tend to lose appeal, but I will definitely be getting quotes nonetheless to see if the recession has made it a more viable option.
    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Those other prices would be a higher spec.. ie at least 200mm polystyrene.. 300 in some cases.

    most external insulation companies price for the insulation, fitting, and render.....
    Yes it was for 365mm Insulation and included fitting and render. It did state that it made minimal difference if it was 356mm insulation or 250mm insulation because the labour was the most price intensive part. Is intallation really that hard that requires such a high price. Could it be fitted by a blocklayer/plasterer or is that risking the integrity of the finish. I'd imaghine it would if its something you are not used to.


  • #65
    Slig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,550 ✭✭✭Slig


    I am working with an architect from Hungary and he was gobsmacked when we recieved our first quote for External insulation. For them its a bog standard method of construction (external insulation on "poroton") and the very cheapest.

    He really couldnt get his head around it!!! He spent the whole week trying to convince himself that its not a good idea to buy a truck and bring the stuff into the country.

    PS: Poroton is a great system let down by inevitable shabby workmanship.

    PPS: Congrats on the house btw, and well done not loosing the head and telling people to F-off (yet anyway:D). I hope you can continue to take our badgering and squabbling with the patience you've shown so far and maybe even get a better home because of it.


  • #66
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,837 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    quazzie...external insulation is the road less travelled and, as such, is forboding... and current prices do seem to price it out of the market unfortunately.

    have a look at the link below for what i mean about 'insulated foundations'....
    http://www.supergrund.se/Dokument.htm

    perhaps a well constructed double leaf wall with upgraded in sulation is your best bet, considering skills available and budget.


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  • #67
    Quazzie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,064 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    Slig wrote: »
    I am working with an architect from Hungary and he was gobsmacked when we recieved our first quote for External insulation. For them its a bog standard method of construction (external insulation on "poroton") and the very cheapest.

    He really couldnt get his head around it!!! He spent the whole week trying to convince himself that its not a good idea to buy a truck and bring the stuff into the country.

    PS: Poroton is a great system let down by inevitable shabby workmanship.
    Well if he does decide to do it make sure to let us all know. I'm sure that if this method was widely available at a cheaper, more competitive price then it wouldn't be long till it became the norm. I've a friend at the moment who is in the middle of his blocklaying apprenticeship so I'll be very interested to hear from him about whether they study, or practice using poroton blocks at all in his college phases. If not I think we are way behind on a great piece of technology that is more than common in plenty of other places. I know when looking into it a few months back initially I would've loved to have been more confident about the price and installation of this type.
    Slig wrote: »
    PPS: Congrats on the house btw, and well done not loosing the head and telling people to F-off (yet anyway:D). I hope you can continue to take our badgering and squabbling with the patience you've shown so far and maybe even get a better home because of it.
    Thanks. I'm only too happy to see abit of arguing debate going on because anything that can help me choose better ways to build my house is a good idea. Plus its nice to see a few new unfamiliar faces get involved in the chat. I'm hoping eventually that this could be a really good read for people like me who have good intentions and want to build a really decent quality house, but are restricted by money and/or experience/knowledge.

    sydthebeat wrote: »
    quazzie...external insulation is the road less travelled and, as such, is forboding... and current prices do seem to price it out of the market unfortunately.

    have a look at the link below for what i mean about 'insulated foundations'....
    http://www.supergrund.se/Dokument.htm
    Wow I didn't even know that was possible. I always thought that since the whole weight of the house was going to be on it that it wouldn't be.
    sydthebeat wrote: »
    perhaps a well constructed double leaf wall with upgraded in sulation is your best bet, considering skills available and budget.
    Yea I'm thinking that too. I think its probably the best compromise. I think I'll build the inner 215 leaf first then put the insulation up, so that I can guarantee that it is perfect before putting up the external leaf. What would you think of this?

    Earlier you mentioned a 40mm min open cavity, is that figure part of the regs or is it a nominal figure designed to leave room for the kinked part of the wall ties?


  • #68
    Slig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,550 ✭✭✭Slig


    The only problem with poroton is that it is very brittle and where somebody using it for 10+ years might know how to handle it, here the blockies cant seem to resist filling any gaps with concrete which causes cold bridging.

    It really only seems practicle with external insulation and two high priced technologies together combined with limited builder experience in this country just doesnt stack up.

    Take a look at some of the "cavity fill boards" made from polystyrene, they wont give you as good a U-value as a Polyuretane board but they are fool proof to erect (even make the blockwork easier because you just build the outer leaf flush against them), come with their own ties, agrement certified and if you do go for a structural inner leaf can be easily tied to the roof insulation. They are even waterproof (PU desintegrates in water and it absorbs it) which means there is no rush closing the cavity.

    Building the first 2-3 courses from Lightweight blockwork can help incorporate your floor insulation with your wall insulation


  • #69
    Quazzie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,064 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    I was talking to a friend of mine who I mentioned above as being the blocklaying apprentice. We were discussing foundation design and he claims that its common practice recently in a standard cavity wall construction that they build it with the cavity going right down to the poured strip foundation, and then the cavity filled to an apropriate level with a wet concrete mix. He says this is how he sees it done on site and that is how he learned it in his college phases.

    I always thought it was cavity (310) to one level below finished floor and then solid (325 i.e a 215 + 100) below that to the strip. Has the common consensus changed on this? Is this is as common as he makes out?


  • #70
    Slig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,550 ✭✭✭Slig


    Quazzie2002 wrote: »
    I was talking to a friend of mine who I mentioned above as being the blocklaying apprentice. We were discussing foundation design and he claims that its common practice recently in a standard cavity wall construction that they build it with the cavity going right down to the poured strip foundation, and then the cavity filled to an apropriate level with a wet concrete mix. He says this is how he sees it done on site and that is how he learned it in his college phases.

    I always thought it was cavity (310) to one level below finished floor and then solid (325 i.e a 215 + 100) below that to the strip. Has the common consensus changed on this? Is this is as common as he makes out?

    either or, thats the way I learned it but changed to solid rising walls as they looked, well, more solid. If you are going below GL with your insulation, again, PU is not suitable.


  • #71
    Quazzie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,064 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    Slig wrote: »
    either or, thats the way I learned it but changed to solid rising walls as they looked, well, more solid. If you are going below GL with your insulation, again, PU is not suitable.
    No I won't be going below GL with insulation but I will be considering cavity to the strip because otherwise my foundation would be 5 blocks wide (2x2x215 + 1x100) which would leave me with 3000 blocks in the foundations if I go 5 blocks high.

    In terms of the poured strip foundations how far down do you need to go? I know this is site specific but who decides? Is it an engineers job to inspect a hole and see? Is it the responsibility of whoever is doing the foundations? On my site for example down about 600-800mm there is a band of gravel type material that's mixed with a kind of lackey(sp?) material. Is this suitable or should I get it inspected in case it requires a raft foundation? and again who does the inspection?


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  • #72
    Slig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,550 ✭✭✭Slig


    Quazzie2002 wrote: »
    No I won't be going below GL with insulation but I will be considering cavity to the strip because otherwise my foundation would be 5 blocks wide (2x2x215 + 1x100) which would leave me with 3000 blocks in the foundations if I go 5 blocks high.

    In terms of the poured strip foundations how far down do you need to go? I know this is site specific but who decides? Is it an engineers job to inspect a hole and see? Is it the responsibility of whoever is doing the foundations? On my site for example down about 600-800mm there is a band of gravel type material that's mixed with a kind of lackey(sp?) material. Is this suitable or should I get it inspected in case it requires a raft foundation? and again who does the inspection?

    Top of founds to be min 600mm below GL. If you go too deep then you may need to suspend your ground floor. I see your point with the blockwork:D.


  • #73
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,837 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Quazzie2002 wrote: »
    In terms of the poured strip foundations how far down do you need to go? I know this is site specific but who decides? Is it an engineers job to inspect a hole and see? Is it the responsibility of whoever is doing the foundations??

    quazzie... the general process is:

    • ground works guy digs out traditional strip foundation throughout
    • engineer / architect calls out and inspects ground conditions.
    • he determines whether trad strip is sufficient or remedial measures are necessary.
    • if remedial measures necessary he specifies them ie wider strip, extra reinforcement, or anything up to a full blown raft foundation.
    • groundworks guy makes changes
    • engineer / architect makes second visting to see measures in place prior o pouring.. if all ok.. fire ahead...

    PS.. god help whatever engineer / architect is certifying this for you.... we will have him driven up the wall!!! :D


  • #74
    Quazzie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,064 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    Slig wrote: »
    Top of founds to be min 600mm below GL. If you go too deep then you may need to suspend your ground floor. I see your point with the blockwork:D.

    Yea it might save me a bit of I done cavity and poured concrete into it.
    sydthebeat wrote: »
    quazzie... the general process is:

    • ground works guy digs out traditional strip foundation throughout
    • engineer / architect calls out and inspects ground conditions.
    • he determines whether trad strip is sufficient or remedial measures are necessary.
    • if remedial measures necessary he specifies them ie wider strip, extra reinforcement, or anything up to a full blown raft foundation.
    • groundworks guy makes changes
    • engineer / architect makes second visting to see measures in place prior o pouring.. if all ok.. fire ahead...
    thanks Syd. That means we should be able to start digging sometime next week if I get over and step out the site on Saturday. It'll finally be nice to see a proper start made to it.
    sydthebeat wrote: »
    PS.. god help whatever engineer / architect is certifying this for you.... we will have him driven up the wall!!! :D

    Yea, but that's a good thing. He's kinda lazy and too easy going so I'll be double checking everything he does, and reporting back with all my findings. My dad is already dreading working for me because I told him I'll be around every evening checking progress and making sure that everything is up to scratch and he knows how I'm a stickler for the details. :D


  • #75
    muffler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,307 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Tell him there's a load of chancers from boards.ie coming to the site armed with digital cameras and clipboards. Then run!


  • #76
    Slig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,550 ✭✭✭Slig


    muffler wrote: »
    Tell him there's a load of chancers from boards.ie coming to the site armed with digital cameras and clipboards. Then run!

    In relation to that Quazzie, you set the date for the foundation warming party yet?


  • #77
    Quazzie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,064 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    muffler wrote: »
    Tell him there's a load of chancers from boards.ie coming to the site armed with digital cameras and clipboards. Then run!
    There'd be some hope of him taking on the job then.
    Slig wrote: »
    In relation to that Quazzie, you set the date for the foundation warming party yet?
    I'll have to check the 'Entertainments' tab on my budget. ;)


  • #78
    Quazzie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,064 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    Has anyone ever seen/used shutterend poured concrete walls for the rising walls? Would this be a viable option.

    P.S I already have the Shuttering panels so thats not a problem.


  • #79
    Slig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,550 ✭✭✭Slig


    Quazzie2002 wrote: »
    Has anyone ever seen/used shutterend poured concrete walls for the rising walls? Would this be a viable option.

    P.S I already have the Shuttering panels so thats not a problem.

    Hmmm. You'd need to make sure that any pipes going through the rising walls (radon sump, sewer etc.) went through them before the pour. Drilling through a RC wall (especially one 500mm thick) isnt easy.

    Would they be cost effective?


  • #80
    muffler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,307 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Slig wrote: »
    Would they be cost effective?
    Wouldnt think so and also very time consuming.

    No need for this method either.


  • #81
    Quazzie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,064 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    tbh I don't know about cost effectiveness. Doing some rough maths I'd imagine that it'd work out about the same but with the benefit of only taking 2/3 days to do and with possible added strength through re-bar.

    Maths:
    All approximate figures
    5 block wall 4 rows high = 40
    900x500x2200=1metre cubed
    2.2M = 5blocks so therefore 5x40 = 200 = 1M cubed

    1M cubed of concrete = ??? but its gotta be a lot less than 200 blocks layed.


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  • #82
    Quazzie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,064 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    I was browsing around on the net for info on a 200mm cavity and I came across this. Had to do a double check when I seen the first reply;).

    Should I have a structural engineer design the whole wall because the cavity is 200 or is it just the wall ties that need designing?

    With a 200mm cavity I'd assume that the outer leaf would be treated as a separate structural entity and that it would be freestanding, which would mean that wall ties would not be required, and that 100mm thick would not be good enough for my particular height and set-up. I've seen wall ties for 150mm cavity but nothing above it so I'm assuming above it generally is a 'no-no'.

    EDIT:
    If its possible to go to a 200mm cavity without major work I think I might finally have my wall set-up. I know it might/will cause complications at cill, jamb and head level but these are all just details that can be sorted out afterwards.

    If 150mm is the max I'll probably be going for pumped bead full fill over the 150mm, but this is by far my second choice, as I don't believe it consistently fills the cavity and U values quoted don't seem to be as good.


  • #83
    Slig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,550 ✭✭✭Slig


    Quazzie2002 wrote: »
    I was browsing around on the net for info on a 200mm cavity and I came across this. Had to do a double check when I seen the first reply;).

    Should I have a structural engineer design the whole wall because the cavity is 200 or is it just the wall ties that need designing?

    With a 200mm cavity I'd assume that the outer leaf would be treated as a separate structural entity and that it would be freestanding, which would mean that wall ties would not be required, and that 100mm thick would not be good enough for my particular height and set-up. I've seen wall ties for 150mm cavity but nothing above it so I'm assuming above it generally is a 'no-no'.

    Any wall with a 100mm outer leaf, 100mm inner leaf and cavity smaller than 150mm is OK from a DOE point of view (the 150 cavity requires more ties though)
    Anything bigger has to be "indemnified" by a structural engineer.

    TBH the 300mm cavity wall is meant to be the 2 leaves acting together, as it has progressed through time (started as a 25mm cavity) and as houses, floor spans and window opes got bigger I think its a bit antequated now. Its a much cleaner system to use 215 inner leaf(structural) and just have the outer leaf as a weather breaker. It will still require ties though.

    PS: a 100mm blockwork wall isnt actually that strong, well compressively it is, but it can be very easy to knock over especially if its long and tall.


  • #84
    Quazzie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,064 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    Slig wrote: »
    Any wall with a 100mm outer leaf, 100mm inner leaf and cavity smaller than 150mm is OK from a DOE point of view (the 150 cavity requires more ties though)
    Anything bigger has to be "indemnified" by a structural engineer.
    Thats exactly the answer I was dreading.
    Slig wrote: »
    TBH the 300mm cavity wall is meant to be the 2 leaves acting together, as it has progressed through time (started as a 25mm cavity) and as houses, floor spans and window opes got bigger I think its a bit antequated now. Its a much cleaner system to use 215 inner leaf(structural) and just have the outer leaf as a weather breaker. It will still require ties though.
    Mine will have a 215 inner leaf taking the whole structural weight, does this change the fact I need it "indemnified"? I presume not as its the outer leaf thats the problem.
    Slig wrote: »
    PS: a 100mm blockwork wall isnt actually that strong, well compressively it is, but it can be very easy to knock over especially if its long and tall.
    Thats what I thought, especially in my case where I have all long straight walls.


  • #85
    Slig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,550 ✭✭✭Slig


    Quazzie2002 wrote: »
    Thats exactly the answer I was dreading.


    Mine will have a 215 inner leaf taking the whole structural weight, does this change the fact I need it "indemnified"? I presume not as its the outer leaf thats the problem.


    Thats what I thought, especially in my case where I have all long straight walls.

    If you building a cavity Bigger than 150mm with a 100mm inner and outer leaf then its necessary. I will have to get confirmation on this though, I only know it from hearing it at a CPD.


  • #86
    joost3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7 ✭joost3


    Hi,

    Think this thread is a great idea, especially for self-builders. Looking forward to the updates.


  • #87
    Heatherview
    Closed Accounts Posts: 152 ✭✭Heatherview


    Hi Quazzie2002
    Nice plans good luck with the build. Looking at the plans there are a few small things id like to open up,
    1. With a very open plan design Air Tightness would help heat wise(around joist work in blockwork and under roof space Doors and windows ).
    2. Bedrooms try and get in another en suite maybe bedroom 3 puts a lot of value on house if you ever decide to move.
    3. Storage space in dwelling at a minimum would you try putting a loft in garage for storage ?
    4. Big doors on garage are they essential (could be costly)?
    Thoughts
    Heatherview


  • #88
    Quazzie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,064 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    Heatherview wrote: »
    Hi Quazzie2002
    Nice plans good luck with the build.
    Heatherview wrote: »
    Looking at the plans there are a few small things id like to open up,
    With a very open plan design Air Tightness would help heat wise(around joist work in blockwork and under roof space Doors and windows ).
    Air tightness is something I have to really look into as its something I have kind of put on the long finger for long now but its really something to look into because at this stage of organization and quote tendering its the best time to do it.
    Heatherview wrote: »
    Bedrooms try and get in another en suite maybe bedroom 3 puts a lot of value on house if you ever decide to move.
    I have considered this but if I did I would also have to put one on bedroom 1 or the only bathroom available to that room would be downstairs.
    Heatherview wrote: »
    Storage space in dwelling at a minimum would you try putting a loft in garage for storage ?

    I have already considered a loft in the garage but this will require some revision of my planning permission, but it should be easily got. I'll just have to review the pro's and con's but I'm thinking it is something I will do. The shed will be one of the last things I do, so I'll wait till a later stage to re-apply for planning permission in case I need to make any more changes to the main building.
    Heatherview wrote: »
    Big doors on garage are they essential (could be costly)?
    My brother in law makes stuff like them style doors and big chunky tables as a kind of hobby so I'd only be paying for the timber (factory cuts) and the hinges so it shouldn't be too expensive (hopefully).


  • #89
    Quazzie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,064 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    Just to add an update.

    There seems to be a bit of a lull on the selfbuild at the moment as a lot of admin needs to be taken care of. Finalizing the mortgage, signing over the site, paying the people already needed to be paid etc all takes a bit of organization and time. With the weather being the way it is I don't think I'm in any rush as I can't imagine us breaking ground for at least a week. Its frustrating after building everything up so fast in your head to have paperwork bring to a snails pace. Where is this spring we're due?

    On a positive note I've recently been in talks with our resident Sydthebeat and we have agreed a fee and he is supplying a BER assessment, Specification for tender, and list of BER improvements. He is the first person I enquired about this off of but his figure matched what I was considering paying, and although with some shopping around I might receive a better quote, I wouldn't trust it as much as Syd, because as we all know he certainly knows his stuff, and for me thats the important thing, having confidence in the professionals you employ. Its also nice to keep it a real Boards build as well I must add ;)

    Just a question for everyone as well. I'm going to be planting a row of trees along the North boundary of the site that hopefully when fully developed will provide some shelter from the Northern winds. Can anyone suggest some tree types that grow pretty fast but are nice to look at. I'm hoping to mix a few types to add a bit of variety but really know nothing about trees :confused: There are no trees close by so I can't plant in keeping with local surroundings which would be my first suggestion. i might start a thread in the Gardening forum and I'll post a link here.


  • #90
    Slig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,550 ✭✭✭Slig


    I like mountain Ash, they are fairly hardy and indegenous. Sycamore grow fairly quick, and they are nicer than most of evergreens, but they spread like the plague!

    RE: The garage, If finances allow it might be an idea to get this built fairly quickly, It'll give you somewhere safe to store building materials and machinery. I know around our area there has been a huge amount of robberies from building sites.


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  • #91
    Quazzie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,064 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    Slig wrote: »
    I like mountain Ash, they are fairly hardy and indegenous. Sycamore grow fairly quick, and they are nicer than most of evergreens, but they spread like the plague!

    RE: The garage, If finances allow it might be an idea to get this built fairly quickly, It'll give you somewhere safe to store building materials and machinery. I know around our area there has been a huge amount of robberies from building sites.
    I agree and I read that in one of the other stickies about building the shed first, and I totally agree that this is without doubt the best way to go but I am lucky that there is already secure sheds on site in the SW corner of the field so I will leave the shed till last.

    I was going to post a new thread in Gardening but after reading this thread I think I am going to go with Mountain Ash. Its a nice broad leaf plant that should supply plenty of shade in the summer and still be fast growing. This combined with evergreen bush beneath for the all year protection.


  • #92
    Slig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,550 ✭✭✭Slig


    Quazzie2002 wrote: »
    I agree and I read that in one of the other stickies about building the shed first, and I totally agree that this is without doubt the best way to go but I am lucky that there is already secure sheds on site in the SW corner of the field so I will leave the shed till last.

    I was going to post a new thread in Gardening but after reading this thread I think I am going to go with Mountain Ash. Its a nice broad leaf plant that should supply plenty of shade in the summer and still be fast growing. This combined with evergreen bush beneath for the all year protection.

    Sounds good. Very lucky with the sheds:D


  • #93
    Heatherview
    Closed Accounts Posts: 152 ✭✭Heatherview


    Hi Quazzie2002
    How is the work going? Velux windows for bathroom/en suite upstairs can be got with pvc lining inside for wet areas.Your spec on cavity insulation i would be more inclined to use a thicker cavity wall than fill rest with bead ? Bead is installed normally with bead and an additive type of bonding agent to hold beads. Would worry about water crossing on ties or cement blobs ? Consider using 225 x 44 rafters instead of 225 x 38mm easier for nailing, less damage to felt if nail goes wrong when battening

    Good luck with your house

    heatherview


  • #94
    Echelle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 163 ✭✭Echelle


    A good example of the poor results when "designing"by committee'
    Major design flaws on the ground floor:
    Huge amount of space wasted on circulation areas, wcs etc.
    Living room too long and narrow, this is emphasised by entering from narrow end', difficult room to furnish; This ia a large house, why is the living room so small?
    Fireplace in an awkard position.
    Study faces a blank wall ( wall of garage)
    The kitchen living dining area is poorly laid out. Kitchen is particularly poor. Wall units along rear wall only? Corner window interferes with kitchen layout, The fieplace is oddly situated.the littLe inglenook living area is too claustraphobic. The corner windows are incongrous, the elevations are quite traditional, corner widows do not fit in. Lots of modern houses use corner windows but they should blend in with the overall design of the house.In this layout they are totally out of place.
    Why are there no windows in the stairs area? Apart from some rooflights the west evening sun is being denied ( In the study the garage blocks it and the utility room does not gain from it).
    The upper level works a bit better but is still flawed.
    The only positive thing is the overall Plan shape which is traditional. .
    It is a pity to see someone who is obviously very keen on building a family house to have been sterred or misguided in the layout,


  • #95
    Quazzie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,064 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    Heatherview wrote: »
    Hi Quazzie2002
    How is the work going?
    Slowly. Signing over the land and finalizing the mortgage seems to be taking forever, although I'm trying to be as patient as possible
    Heatherview wrote: »
    Velux windows for bathroom/en suite upstairs can be got with pvc lining inside for wet areas.
    Thanks I'll make a note of that and definitely keep it in mind when ordering from Velux
    Heatherview wrote: »
    Your spec on cavity insulation i would be more inclined to use a thicker cavity wall than fill rest with bead ? Bead is installed normally with bead and an additive type of bonding agent to hold beads. Would worry about water crossing on ties or cement blobs ?

    Sydthebeat is currently doing up a spec for me that I'm sure will have some excellent suggestions regarding external walls. No doubt they will be different in some ways to the specs quoted.
    Heatherview wrote: »
    Consider using 225 x 44 rafters instead of 225 x 38mm easier for nailing, less damage to felt if nail goes wrong when battening

    The rafter sizes are the minimum quoted in the Homebond manual for the span but I think I'll end up going for 225x44 as they seem to be a more common size, and from my research and pricing so far don't seem to be all that more expensive.
    Heatherview wrote: »
    Good luck with your house

    heatherview
    Thanks
    Echelle wrote: »
    A good example of the poor results when "designing"by committee'
    I designed this build myself, on my own, not by 'committee' with minimal finalizing input from some people on boards.
    Echelle wrote: »
    Major design flaws on the ground floor:
    Huge amount of space wasted on circulation areas, wcs etc.
    I presume by circulation areas you mean areas like the antrance area. If so, this is hugely a personal choice, and not something I would recommend for others. An entrance area is somewhere that I think is important in a building and something I have as a luxury.

    The wc's, or bathroom as it is, is that size to make it fully wheelchair accessible. This is something I believe firmly in as I have a very good friend that is wheelchair bound and I wanted to make the whole bottom floor as accessible to him as it is to anyone else.
    Echelle wrote: »
    Living room too long and narrow, this is emphasised by entering from narrow end', difficult room to furnish; This ia a large house, why is the living room so small?
    I'm assuming your first mention to the 'living room' is actually in reference to the Sitting room? If so I agree that this isn't ideal, but is the best solution in my view because I have a theory that houses should be adapatable to change, and in designing this I tried to keep in mind the possibility of converting the "Sitting room" the "Study" and the downstair "bathroom" into an independent Granny flat, with the Sitting room converting to a bedroom, and living area, and the Study being the kitchen.

    Echelle wrote: »
    Fireplace in an awkard position.
    These are positioned under advice of planning guidelines for my county

    Echelle wrote: »
    Study faces a blank wall ( wall of garage)
    Its a study and in reality I want it dark. It is positioned where it is because it is the room that'll be less used (except possibly by myself) and will help cushion the effects of the Northern gable on the rest of the house.
    Echelle wrote: »
    The kitchen living dining area is poorly laid out. Kitchen is particularly poor. Wall units along rear wall only? Corner window interferes with kitchen layout,
    I partially agree with this, and have thought long and hard about it. I am open to any suggestions you can make regards internal layout, especially at this stage.
    Echelle wrote: »
    The fieplace is oddly situated.
    reference above.
    Echelle wrote: »
    the littLe inglenook living area is too claustraphobic.
    Its meant to be a part of that room where a telly is and people can relax in a comfy chair. Its not meant to be a different room but more a room within a room, if that makes sense. I want it to be part of the overall kitchen but angled that you can sit there not affecting other in the kitchen.
    Echelle wrote: »
    The corner windows are incongrous, the elevations are quite traditional, corner widows do not fit in.Lots of modern houses use corner windows but they should blend in with the overall design of the house.In this layout they are totally out of place.
    Call me stupid but I had to google incongrous,:o I presume you mean incongruous. If so I'd agree, but state that they have huge function qualities so I've ignored it to a large extent because of this. Not ideal I agree but its form around function, which is a philosophy I used for most rooms, perhaps the kitchen being the exception.
    Echelle wrote: »
    Why are there no windows in the stairs area? Apart from some rooflights the west evening sun is being denied ( In the study the garage blocks it and the utility room does not gain from it).
    I think there will be adequate natural light(maybe not solar gain) from the 4 veluxes positioned above the stairs, and I didn't want to cluster the front elevation with more windows. Thats my reasoning around that.
    Echelle wrote: »
    The upper level works a bit better but is still flawed.
    The only positive thing is the overall Plan shape which is traditional.
    I wanted to go with the effect of an old house/classic design that was modernized rather than a new house with no place in the area.
    Echelle wrote: »
    .
    It is a pity to see someone who is obviously very keen on building a family house to have been sterred or misguided in the layout,
    As referenced above I designed this myself and the only tips I got were basically along the same lines as yours, and most were adopted.


    I really appreciate your views, and criticizm, which is why I started this. I really want this thread to be a help to people that are thinking of building and posts like yours Echelle, while critical I feel are vital to the success of this thread. I'm also more than happy to answer any more questions you might have, or consider any changes you might suggest. So please continue to participate. We'll all appreciate it.

    P.S Echelle, I've never seen you about here before, and you make some sensible observations, what is it you do? Architect would be my guess.


  • #96
    muffler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,307 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Echelle wrote: »
    A good example of the poor results when "designing"by committee'....................It is a pity to see someone who is obviously very keen on building a family house to have been sterred or misguided in the layout,
    Theres no need for comments like that but then again you have a habit of posting the likes when you blow in here on occasions.

    Please dont lower the tone in a vain attempt at insulting people who contribute regularly to this forum and give good advice.


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  • #97
    littleredspot
    Registered Users Posts: 747 ✭✭✭littleredspot


    I'm going to join the backslapping for this thread.

    I've been planning my own build for the last three years (don't get me going on the reasons why its not started yet:() I've been reading the threads on this, and other forums, buying the magazines, watching the TV shows etc. and the one thing that intrigues me is that no-one seems to have come up with the definitive answer as to the best way to build an energy efficient house at a reasonable rate. I find that a lot of the information is often given by people trying to sell you something or further their line of business. I don't think we'll see the definitive answer here because its obviously skewed by the availability of your fathers services, but I do think that you are going to get the best house for you.

    There is merit in designing a house with the help of a commitee as there's always somebody out there with more knowledge or a different way of looking at something than you. In the end the final decisions still rest with you.

    I have always found that the best opinion someone can have is one that opposes mine, because as Quazzie just gracefully showed in their reply to Echelle, it forces you to think about your decisions.

    Best of luck, and I promise to do less lurking, and more posting...


  • #98
    muffler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,307 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    littleredspot wrote: »
    There is merit in designing a house with the help of a commitee as there's always somebody out there with more knowledge or a different way of looking at something than you. In the end the final decisions still rest with you.
    Very true.


  • #99
    Quazzie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,064 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    littleredspot wrote: »
    I'm going to join the backslapping for this thread.

    I've been planning my own build for the last three years (don't get me going on the reasons why its not started yet:() I've been reading the threads on this, and other forums, buying the magazines, watching the TV shows etc. and the one thing that intrigues me is that no-one seems to have come up with the definitive answer as to the best way to build an energy efficient house at a reasonable rate. I find that a lot of the information is often given by people trying to sell you something or further their line of business. I don't think we'll see the definitive answer here because its obviously skewed by the availability of your fathers services, but I do think that you are going to get the best house for you.

    I agree with everything you say there. So much so that as far back as last September when I was still mostly lurking here I posted this thread. I too was getting frustrated a bit as a novice here, and was looking for the definitive answer, but the truth is there is no definitive answer as everyone is affected by different circumstances, mine be that I have to (financially) choose concrete block built. I will be the first to stand up and admit that ICF and Timber Frame can prove to be better built homes, but for me it isn't, due to my circumstannces. everyone's circumstances are different and this is why we see so many different views on Boards and is why I know I will get the right one for every part of the build I come to.

    I will get plenty of advice from regulars here, and even more advice again from people like yourself who lurk and post intermittently. There are a lot of professionals on boards and most (if not all) of them offer advice that they believe to be true and honest. This might be leaning towards a certain part of the industry they are in, but I think thats just because thats the part the know the best. Its reading through the opinions and finding the one that works for you that is confusing and scary, but worth it.

    I know I am limited to the type of construction I can use because I have to use blockwork, but I read a fact a couple of weeks back that 57% of all houses in Ireland are constructed using concrete blocks, and thats why I'm hoping this thread will appeal to the majority. This figure I can see changing in the future, but by then maybe we'll have a second boards build, from Timber Frame, ICF, Proton etc. Just to add the 'Live Builds' thread is a very varied thread and can offer advice to most on many different types of construction and is full of people only too willing to answer question and help in any way possible.
    littleredspot wrote: »
    There is merit in designing a house with the help of a commitee as there's always somebody out there with more knowledge or a different way of looking at something than you. In the end the final decisions still rest with you.
    I agree, and this is why I felt greedy at the start for suggesting this thread as I felt it was all taking by me, but thanks to people like yourself and a few earlier I feel a lot better because I can see its sparking debate and ideas within people that other threads might not have.
    littleredspot wrote: »
    I have always found that the best opinion someone can have is one that opposes mine, because as Quazzie just gracefully showed in their reply to Echelle, it forces you to think about your decisions.

    I fully welcome any questions and I will try to answer them to the best of my ability. i like to hear other peoples opinions and as I am a novice in most areas of construction I think I can offer a view of the common person on boards and prove that its ok not to know it all and to ask a question that might seem easy to someone else but not to me. Thats why I think the Construction and Planning forum is all too often overlooked on boards for the help and advice it gives out.
    littleredspot wrote: »
    Best of luck, and I promise to do less lurking, and more posting...
    Thanks for the encouragment and I look forward to reading your future posts.


  • #100
    Ferocious
    Registered Users Posts: 43 ✭Ferocious


    Again, great idea for a thread and fair play to you Quazzie for spilling it all out and leaving yourself open to criticism but you seem to have a good attitude to it.
    Like many others here, I’m at the early stages of planning my build also. Finallising some drawing details with the architect before submitting for planning. God knows what will happen there!
    I’m an engineer, but not in the construction industry. I like to understand exactly what’s going on with design, materials and equipment choice. I find this forum a great source of information.
    It may not be directly related to the build but to pick up on something you’ve mentioned a few times as a delay – signing over the site.
    How long can this take and what causes the delays? The architect said I shouldn’t bother doing anything about it until planning has been granted which made sense I suppose but I wouldn’t like to let it hold up the project. Would it be correct to presume you can still commence the build before signing over the site, but it’s required by the bank to release any money?


  • #101
    muffler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,307 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Ferocious wrote: »
    Would it be correct to presume you can still commence the build before signing over the site, but it’s required by the bank to release any money?
    It has been known to happen but certainly not recommended. The least you would need is for the contact documents to be signed. They dont necessarily have to be lodged with the Land Registry at this stage as a letter of undertaking from your solicitor will suffice for mortgage purposes.

    Dont turn a sod till contacts are signed.


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