Bike Scheme like Dublin, Waterford misses out.

Cabaal · 12-11-2015 12:45pm

fiachr_a wrote: »

I never said there's a law for this. A dozen people died last year from cycling in this country. If they've no helmet it's their own life at risk. There's an increase in deaths and serious accidents from cycling in recent years. No doubt due to these free bike schemes that don't require a helmet.

With all due respect you're making alot of incorrect assumptions here. There's one death I'm aware of by somebody using the Dublin bikes scheme, if you think there's been more then please produce the proof.

When it comes to cycle deaths in general most are caused by hgvs, no helmet will stop an entire body being crushed by a truck.

Ironically some research on helmets has shown that motorists actually give less Road space to a cyclist wearing a helmet when compared to one not wearing one.

From my observations over the years, most of the time the people who believe helmets should be made law lack any real world experience cycling day to day and have not even bothered to read any research on the topic. The problem is such people have a perception that cycling is more dangerous then it actually is in reality.

fuzzy dunlop · 12-11-2015 1:29pm

tonc76 wrote: »

I'll second that. Outside of the city centre I've never seen anyone on one of these bikes and I'm regularly all over the city. Has Fuzzy ever ridden one of the bikes? They're ideal for short trips but I wouldn't be venturing on a trip to Bray, Lucan etc.

Not the Dublin ones but I have used them elsewhere. Yes there not the most comfortable of bikes but that is not the point. A 10km (40 mins) cycle is by no means excessive for these bikes. And while they are not used en masse to travel to outer parts of Dublin I have seen them while I was living there on occasion out towards the west i.e between Chapelizod and Lucan. However they are not uncommon at all in places along the coast like Dalkey and Killiney or Portmarnock and Howth. Its outlandish to think these are the type of places that are not ideally in range for such bikes for someone who wants to explore Dublin.

cgcsb · 12-11-2015 2:29pm

JourneyMan8 wrote: »

stating what's likely to be true is living in a negative world nowadays?

anyway its never going to work in Waterford, facts and figures show that this kind of stuff only works in big cities or cities with large urban area's with a lot of different things to do, Waterford is spread out and sadly doesn't fit in to the categories these people are looking for.

Spain has 132 separate bike share schemes. Spain does not have 132 large urban areas. I'd say maybe the top 30 are in Cities larger than Waterford.

cgcsb · 12-11-2015 2:39pm

tonc76 wrote: »

I'll second that. Outside of the city centre I've never seen anyone on one of these bikes and I'm regularly all over the city. Has Fuzzy ever ridden one of the bikes? They're ideal for short trips but I wouldn't be venturing on a trip to Bray, Lucan etc.

I've cycled one out to hazelhatch along the canal once, nice journey.

cgcsb · 12-11-2015 2:41pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

you might find that all the bikes go out from the city centre in the morning and end up parked up in WIT so no one in the city would get to use them.

Same problem encountered and solved in Dublin

CatFromHue wrote: »

In Dublin there's no stations in DCU or UCD which are only a few kms away from the city centre.

The scheme doesn't yet extend that far out there are stations around Trinity and the DIT campuses with more stations planned for the new DIT campus.

cgcsb · 12-11-2015 2:47pm

fiachr_a wrote: »

There's an increase in deaths and serious accidents from cycling in recent years. No doubt due to these free bike schemes that don't require a helmet.

No serious incidents reported on Dublin Bikes this year.

JourneyMan8 · 12-11-2015 5:53pm

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Not at all. I have seen people cycle these frequently to places like Lucan in Dublin or along the coast to Bray and Killiney which is more demanding than a leisurely jaunt to Passage. Cycling to Passage East for the majority of people would be undemanding bar the very young,very old and the sick. About 7 miles.In the Netherlands I see tourists doing similar trips on a massive scale. As for the public transport. You could reserve space for eight bikes in the luggage compartment of an expressway bus and 80% of the space is would still be available. Restricting it to outside of peak times or to these types of bike would probably mean no modifications would be required at all.We are talking minor logistical issues here that can be solved without any great thought.

you'd want to be the fittest man in waterford to take on a trip to passage with one of these scheme bikes with the amount of hills and stuff.

can we stop comparing us to the Dutch, they are obsessed with their bikes and their flat surfaces are perfect for it.

fuzzy dunlop · 12-11-2015 6:14pm

JourneyMan8 wrote: »

you'd want to be the fittest man in waterford to take on a trip to passage with one of these scheme bikes with the amount of hills and stuff.

Ballix! A 10 year old could do it. You would want to be some lazy b@stard to think this is some sort of strong man effort.

JourneyMan8 wrote: »

can we stop comparing us to the Dutch, they are obsessed with their bikes and their flat surfaces are perfect for it.

Why? because you don't like it? Better that than a country overflowing with obese couch potatoes...

http://italicroots.lefora.com/topic/497/Obesity-rates-in-Europe#.VkTKDHarSUk

fiachr_a · 12-11-2015 6:40pm

cgcsb wrote: »

No serious incidents reported on Dublin Bikes this year.

Dublin is the most dangerous place for cyclists.

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/irish-news/record-level-of-cycling-injuries-31002997.html

JourneyMan8 · 12-11-2015 7:00pm

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Ballix! A 10 year old could do it. You would want to be some lazy b@stard to think this is some sort of strong man effort.

Why? because you don't like it? Better that than a country overflowing with obese couch potatoes...

http://italicroots.lefora.com/topic/497/Obesity-rates-in-Europe#.VkTKDHarSUk

I cycle every day and even I find it hard on a proper bike so I wouldn't like to think how someone who doesn't would take to it.

lol I said don't compare because they have loved their bikes for years and have flat surfaces and great conditions for it unlike us, and your response is about obesity?? makes sense.

galwaycyclist · 12-11-2015 7:22pm

fiachr_a wrote: »

Dublin is the most dangerous place for cyclists.

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/irish-news/record-level-of-cycling-injuries-31002997.html

I think it is worth noting that revelations such as this from the RSA get treated with a marked lack of panic by the Irish cycling organisations.

One reason is because the RSA don't seem to have the same definition of "dangerous" as the rest of the planet. Everywhere else, risk is assessed with reference to both exposure and severity and not just the "number" of injuries.

Using the RSAs definition, the number people cycling - the level of exposure - is of no relevance to their assessment of "danger".

Also it has been known for decades that cycling injuries were under reported in Ireland. So it was entirely possible for someone to fall over a large pot of unreported injuries and go "oh look a HUGE increase"!

The reaction among the cyclists is "yawn - well what do you know - care to show us how you got those numbers?".

fuzzy dunlop · 12-11-2015 8:05pm

JourneyMan8 wrote: »

I cycle every day and even I find it hard on a proper bike so I wouldn't like to think how someone who doesn't would take to it.

A proper bike? Don't confuse a "proper bike" with what passes for a mountain bike or a racer that that you see most people using.These bike are by no means a great leap ahead of the bikes used in the bike schemes around the world. No matter what way you look at it a cycle to passage is not an arduous task. Tramore is a piece of p!ss altogether. You see people doing it all the time. Into the nineties it was extremely common to see ordinary people cycling to places like Dunmore and Tramore on bikes far worse than what are used in the Dublin bikes scheme.

JourneyMan8 wrote: »

lol I said don't compare because they have loved their bikes for years and have flat surfaces and great conditions for it unlike us, and your response is about obesity?? makes sense.

We loved our bikes for years too in Ireland. And conditions with regard to "flatness" are not as universal as you seem to think in the Netherlands. The tourist areas in the National Parks near the coast are extremely hilly and it doesn't stop people using these type of bikes. And I think my comment on obesity is fairly relevant when you compare Ireland and the UK to countries where cycling is more prevalent.It is not a co-incidence. They must be doing something right because we are trying to emulate them and have been increasingly for the last 15 years or so.

Cabaal · 13-11-2015 9:48am

JourneyMan8 wrote: »

you'd want to be the fittest man in waterford to take on a trip to passage with one of these scheme bikes with the amount of hills and stuff.

You know somebody did the Wicklow 200 on a Dublin bike right?

http://www.dublinbikes.ie/Magazine/News/Congratulations-Richard-Oakley

I cycle every day and even I find it hard on a proper bike so I wouldn't like to think how someone who doesn't would take to it.

What do you use to cycle?
A mountain bike perhaps?

Most people's experience with cycling is by using a mountain bike, such bikes are completely unsuitable for commuting etc as they require farrrr more effort to cycle then the likes of a hybrid or road bike.

There's a very good reason why you never seen anyone in Amsterdam cycling a mountain bike....its because they are awful. Thats why the use bikes with thinner wheels that make things much much easier, such as the bike below.

Ironically such bikes were extremely popular in Ireland in the past,
They may not look "cool" but they are extremely practical (streets ahead of mountain bikes) and the likes of Dublin Bikes are based on this design,

cgcsb · 13-11-2015 12:17pm

fiachr_a wrote: »

Dublin is the most dangerous place for cyclists.

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/irish-news/record-level-of-cycling-injuries-31002997.html

Which has what to do with the Bike Sharing Scheme exactly?

JourneyMan8 · 13-11-2015 12:43pm

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

A proper bike? Don't confuse a "proper bike" with what passes for a mountain bike or a racer that that you see most people using.These bike are by no means a great leap ahead of the bikes used in the bike schemes around the world. No matter what way you look at it a cycle to passage is not an arduous task. Tramore is a piece of p!ss altogether. You see people doing it all the time. Into the nineties it was extremely common to see ordinary people cycling to places like Dunmore and Tramore on bikes far worse than what are used in the Dublin bikes scheme.

We loved our bikes for years too in Ireland. And conditions with regard to "flatness" are not as universal as you seem to think in the Netherlands. The tourist areas in the National Parks near the coast are extremely hilly and it doesn't stop people using these type of bikes. And I think my comment on obesity is fairly relevant when you compare Ireland and the UK to countries where cycling is more prevalent.It is not a co-incidence. They must be doing something right because we are trying to emulate them and have been increasingly for the last 15 years or so.

I have a racer that is made for roads, can't believe you are trying to big up the scheme bikes lol they're terrible.

I lived in the Netherlands for 6 months and the conditions are ideal, and as I first pointed out, they've many urban area's(not even taking into account any tourist spots) in cycling distance, which is why I feel Waterford wouldn't be successful continuing with it, the main reason for scheme bikes is getting things done in those place, its not just sightseeing. If they want to promote it as a obesity scheme fantastic, all for it, but I don't get that impression.

fuzzy dunlop · 13-11-2015 1:04pm

JourneyMan8 wrote: »

I have a racer that is made for roads, can't believe you are trying to big up the scheme bikes lol they're terrible.

I am not trying to big up anything. I am just pointing out the obvious fallacy in your argument. You and a couple of others are trying to make out that a cycle to passage on a scheme bike is an arduous task it isn't. The second fallacy in your argument is that the scheme bikes are terrible. They are not! They are not great but they are Ok. And judging by the popularity of the schemes the bikes are quite suitable

JourneyMan8 wrote: »

I lived in the Netherlands for 6 months and the conditions are ideal, and as I first pointed out, they've many urban area's(not even taking into account any tourist spots) in cycling distance, which is why I feel Waterford wouldn't be successful continuing with it, the main reason for scheme bikes is getting things done in those place, its not just sightseeing. If they want to promote it as a obesity scheme fantastic, all for it, but I don't get that impression.

6 months isn't long enough. I am living there 5 years and have come to learn that the conditions are not as ideal as you are saying. But six months is long enough to notice several things. The first is that a huge percentage of bikes in use in the Netherlands are of similar type as those used in the bike scheme. The second is an even bigger percentage are of inferior quality. You might have noticed that people use bikes of all quality in specially made cycle parks far distances out of the city with high levels of exposure to the elements particularly wind. So your assertions are far from accurate with regard to the Netherlands.

Places like Corfu use the bike schemes for tourists and they have tiny urban areas. Ok they have better weather but judging by the comparison of Dublin and Melbourne which have similar scale systems weather has not inhibited the Irish scheme one iota.

Cabaal · 13-11-2015 2:37pm

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

they have better weather but judging by the comparison of Dublin and Melbourne which have similar scale systems weather has not inhibited the Irish scheme one Iota.

Indeed, weather didn't make the Melbourne scheme a success at all,

http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1211.html

almost all observers put the failure of the Melbourne scheme down to the State of Victoria's mandatory helmet law which makes casual use of the bikes difficult. In Dublin there is no helmet law. While some people using the hire bikes there do wear helmets, most don't.

No city with a helmet law has achieved a successful hire bike scheme. In Auckland, New Zealand the NextBike scheme folded in November 2010 having achieved only 50 rentals a day. In Mexico City a helmet law was rescinded due to its impact on bike hire.

Once again weather is not a factor in cycle rates, Dublin gets less rain then Amsterdam

comeraghs · 13-11-2015 3:57pm

There's no reason a properly run scheme wouldn't work in Waterford, especially if membership in one City included usage of bikes in all the others.

There should be stations at UHW. Ardkeen SC. WIT, Carriganore. The Train & Bus stations, Michael St & The Mall.

For anything less than a 10 minute walk people won't use them but for walks of 30 mins/cycles of 10 mins I think it would work really well.

Pity that our exclusion is just one in a long list of snubs by Govt bodies.

Just look at Irish Rail running trains from Dublin to Cork, Limerick & Galway but not Waterford after Monday's match v Bosnia.

JourneyMan8 · 13-11-2015 5:41pm

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

6 months isn't long enough. I am living there 5 years and have come to learn that the conditions are not as ideal as you are saying. But six months is long enough to notice several things. The first is that a huge percentage of bikes in use in the Netherlands are of similar type as those used in the bike scheme. The second is an even bigger percentage are of inferior quality. You might have noticed that people use bikes of all quality in specially made cycle parks far distances out of the city with high levels of exposure to the elements particularly wind. So your assertions are far from accurate with regard to the Netherlands.

of course its long enough, I'v also lived in other cities that ran successful bike schemes. the quality of bikes and the quality of roads etc are just side issues. I just don't see it ever working in Waterford, they could run one specifically for the students which would probably work but the normal/every day people of waterford, are they going to use the bikes on a regular basis? sorry I can't see it.

fuzzy dunlop · 13-11-2015 6:47pm

JourneyMan8 wrote: »

of course its long enough, I'v also lived in other cities that ran successful bike schemes. the quality of bikes and the quality of roads etc are just side issues. I just don't see it ever working in Waterford, they could run one specifically for the students which would probably work but the normal/every day people of waterford, are they going to use the bikes on a regular basis? sorry I can't see it.

Its obviously not because you have a extremely limited knowledge of the country and their attitude to cycling. 6 months is barely enough time to familiarize yourself with a single city and that is just knowing how to get around.I lived in Dublin for 12 years and was still discovering much about the place after 2 despite having a considerable knowledge about the place before I moved there. So you just can't see it working in Waterford? This is no surprise when you seem to think you have to be some sort of Iron man to cycle out to passage.

The number of visitors to the city center i.e. tourists is within reach of 250000 people and our three of our main hotels are on the road or in the vicinity of Passage as well as various B&B's. There is various sites of historical interest on the way and then the places themselves are interesting places to visit. Then there is the University Hospital. It is not unconvincing to think that there is potential in a bicycle scheme operating successfully in Waterford if operated in conjunction with other cities.

Cabaal · 13-11-2015 7:49pm

JourneyMan8 wrote: »

but the normal/every day people of waterford, are they going to use the bikes on a regular basis? sorry I can't see it.

Once again we're back to the usual type of argument which were used against Dublin bikes years back, you'd be surprised what the avg Joe will do when they are provided with a good, consistent, reliable public transport system.

kayaksurfbum · 13-11-2015 7:51pm

I cycle a good bit in waterford but i dont think i would use them. The city is to small and there are planty of places to lock or leave your own bike anyway.

As far as i know they are not aimed at tourists.

Maybe a poll could be put on this thread to guesstimate how many people might use them if they did come to Waterford!

fuzzy dunlop · 13-11-2015 8:01pm

kayaksurfbum wrote: »

I cycle a good bit in waterford but i dont think i would use them. The city is to small and there are planty of places to lock or leave your own bike anyway.

As far as i know they are not aimed at tourists.

Maybe a poll could be put on this thread to guesstimate how many people might use them if they did come to Waterford!

But they have been shown to have been operating in many places smaller than Waterford or similar size. As for plenty of places to "lock or leave your own bike". Maybe but this could be said anywhere....Its interesting that the schemes are also operating in countries with massive levels of ownership of bicycles and massive levels of parking infrastructure for cyclists! The arguments are strange here. It won't work because we don't have the infrastructure and It won't work because we don't need the infrastructure.

JourneyMan8 · 14-11-2015 3:53am

Cabaal wrote: »

Once again we're back to the usual type of argument which were used against Dublin bikes years back, you'd be surprised what the avg Joe will do when they are provided with a good, consistent, reliable public transport system.

I think you'd be surprised as you seem to be obsessed with the idea, when there's nothing to do in the city at the best of times, how will a bike scheme be good in them situations, money could go improving the city first then bike scheme later

fiachr_a · 14-11-2015 2:25pm

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

It won't work because we don't have the infrastructure and It won't work because we don't need the infrastructure.

It won't work because Waterford's too hilly for safe cycling.

Cabaal · 14-11-2015 4:10pm

fiachr_a wrote: »

It won't work because Waterford's too hilly for safe cycling.

Hillier then San Francisco?
We'll go closer to home...hillier then Cork?
Cork is far more of a pain to cycle then Waterford,

How do hills make cycling unsafe in Waterford exactly and what hills do you consider unsafe?

fuzzy dunlop · 14-11-2015 5:48pm

JourneyMan8 wrote: »

I think you'd be surprised as you seem to be obsessed with the idea, when there's nothing to do in the city at the best of times, how will a bike scheme be good in them situations, money could go improving the city first then bike scheme later

There is plenty do do in and around the city. This is the language of the moody teenager the world over. And your solution to this apparent problem is to not provide an activity.Weird logic.

CatFromHue · 14-11-2015 9:00pm

Cabaal wrote: »

Hillier then San Francisco?
We'll go closer to home...hillier then Cork?
Cork is far more of a pain to cycle then Waterford,

How do hills make cycling unsafe in Waterford exactly and what hills do you consider unsafe?

I don't think hills make cycling unsafe but now that you mention Cork I think the bike locations are all on the flat bit down in the city centre. From memory I think it's all flat down there anyway.

https://www.bikeshare.ie/cork.html

JourneyMan8 · 15-11-2015 3:56am

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

There is plenty do do in and around the city. This is the language of the moody teenager the world over. And your solution to this apparent problem is to not provide an activity.Weird logic.

no solution is to correct the there's not much to do problem first rather than adding a scheme that won't be used because there's nothing to do.

robtri · 15-11-2015 11:25pm

Dublin was a success by all accounts.....
10% of the Dublin population signed up!!!! thats 54,000 people signed up

Cork so far has been anything but a success, with just less 3% sign up... around 3,000 people and has cost the city, millions as they upgraded and created new cycle lanes.....

Lets say Waterford gets 5% .... thats roughly 2,300 people

thats sign numbers.... not the actual use.... which is usually less than sign up...

what is the cost to the city??? how many millions would be spent installing new cycle lanes and would it be worth it??? whats the payback?

Bike Scheme like Dublin, Waterford misses out.

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