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Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,499 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Of course. It's patently obvious Dublin can't have barrier free transport because of crime, anti-social behaviour and we have no police force.

    Once again, as with the red Luas line we'll be the victim of ideology over reality.

    There are certain things we just can not have. Barrier free transport is one of them. It's stupid, it's not going to work and it's increasingly dangerous to the general public in the context of Dublin's serious neglected issues in the city.

    This will have all the problems of the red line underground and it won't be long before, like the red line, most locals won't use it because they won't be safe.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,632 ✭✭✭Qrt


    Oh red line bashing, how original.

    The locals won’t use it because it’ll be too dangerous? Hyperbole isn’t the word. This is Dublin, not Durban ffs.

    Barriers do f**k all, anybody looking to cause trouble will just hop them.

    Personally I don’t give a crap either way, in reality they won’t do anything to impact my experience of it all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,171 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    as a red line user, I genuinely wish less people would use it.

    Kermit’s post above is ridiculous



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,249 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    No idea on what a RO would look like in ABP, but on an extension I put in for (and didn't get), it was clear that they didn't even look at the file until the last minute. They do an admin check at the start, and then nothing until about a week before the deadline.

    Obviously, you'd expect them to work differently with a major project like this, but they definitely won't look at it until the consultation phase is over.

    Afterwards, it can indeed be taken to court in a Judicial Review, but I believe that this is only open to those who file a submission with ABP during the consultation phase.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,276 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Are we being told that nobody uses the red line? I wish that was the case and I didn't have to sardine myself onto it



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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,249 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Yeah, there was a robust discussion on here when the alignment was first proposed. The people in the townhouses in the Triangle didn't find out that their houses were being taken until the press asked them, but that was more down to DCC not telling them than anything else.

    The Markievicz apartments I thought would be more of an issue, as DCC run the public gym in there. Turns out that DCC were totally ok with the project once NTA/TII told them that they'd get a comparable gym nearby.

    The ones in Poolbeg, Tara, and the quays aren't being touched by this project, that's Johnny Ronan and his tower, which seems to be on indefinite hold now anyway.

    In general, the complaints of those who are unfortunately getting CPO'd have been met with a collective shrug. This project has relatively high support, and the general public seems to be ok with the CPOing of buildings, even apartments and houses, to get this built.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,249 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Indeed, the idea that the DART is "safe" due to the ticket barrier is a bit off as well, don't have to look too far to see reports of trouble on the line, or even reports of people being pushed under the train.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,402 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Well, a lot of the existing barriers on the Dart have been removed, or are left open most of the time. Revenue protection should be such that your ticket is likely to be checked at least once per week or even month.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,782 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    that's partly down to IÉ incompetence; I've got off at Pearse to find only 2 of the 5 barriers setup for exit and a massive queue building to leave the platform, when anyone with half a brain should realise that passengers exiting the platform arrive in large numbers by train, whilst passengers entering the platform arrive in dribs and drabs on foot. Other times (as you experienced) they have all the barriers setup for both directions so when a busy train arrives, you can't get onto the platform.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3 transfer90


    The new Glasnevin Station will be a welcome addition to the city's transport infrastructure. Surprising, however, that there seems to be little comment about the proposed demolition of Hedigan's Brian Boru - a historic landmark building and a fine pub. Is there any possibility of avoiding this?



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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,249 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    In the space available? No, not realistically.

    The station was originally longer, which would have resulted in two of the Dalcassion Downs buildings being demolished too, so this is actually an improvement.

    I haven't actually heard anything about this pub in the context of Metrolink, certainly not to the same extent that I've heard about pubs like the Cobblestone. This implies to me one of two things, either the owners have agreed a favourable deal with NTA/TII already, or the public in general are far more ok with the demolition of buildings for vital infrastructure over the demolition of buildings for hotels.

    Even the campaign that residents and owners of apartments in the Markievicz building launched didn't really catch fire at all, certainly not when you compare it to the massive outcry surrounding the Cobblestone. People seem to be ok with sacrifices for this, with only Na Fianna getting any headway, and to be honest, their campaign had less to do with the changes than the fact that Home Farm were way more amenable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭JohnnyChimpo


    Ah here, it's a grand pub and does a nice enough lunch, but I'll take the vital transport infrastructure instead, any day. If we never touched any place that was mentioned in Ulysses then nothing in Dublin would ever get done.

    There's really no other realistic orientation for that station, and it makes way more sense there rather than in Drumcondra.

    It'll be a shame to lose Des Kelly Carpets though, that's a real institution



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    With the works going on at Tara station does it not free up enough space for IE to expand that station a little bit?

    With the massive plaza beside it to facilitate the Metrolink station, couldn't they squeeze in a few terminal platforms on the Irish Rail tracks to accommodate services from the Northern line? Enterprise services terminating in Tara would be a much more desirable location than currently in Connolly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭plodder


    It'll be a shame to lose Des Kelly Carpets though, that's a real institution

    Going on past history, it'll rise again soon enough somewhere else ..



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,726 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I had actually thought similar before but for terminating northbound trains, surely it would make more sense to add a platform on the western side? Having Rosslare or Wexford commuter services terminate there frees up capacity on the LLB, in Connolly and removes the need to turn back from Connolly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    But there's only something like four services a day to Wexford whereas the ambition is to have Enterprise go hourly. With Translink planning on moving the Belfast terminus to the more centrally located Grand Central Station, is it just wishful thinking to hope that IE match that level of ambition? For sure Tara Street is the next station to see a major capital investment programme given that all the other Dublin city centre stations have had some degree of serious makeovers.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,816 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Enterprise terminating somewhere without a lounge (waiting room with a loo and vending machines rather than the idea of a proper lounge), toilets, shops etc would be a downgrade. That would be significantly more than a little bit of an upgrade to Tara.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    That's why I never described it as 'a little bit of an upgrade'



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,556 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Using up valuable loop line paths to terminate trains at Tara Street is not a very good use of the available line capacity.

    You would also be losing a path in each direction were trains to depart northbound from a bay platform on the east side or arrive into one on the west side.

    Grand Canal Dock has been designed to minimise conflicts by having the terminating platform between the two running lines.

    Far better to use the line capacity to have more through running of Northern Line and Maynooth Line trains to GCD and minimise conflicts.

    Connolly has the terminating space and the facilities to service Intercity stock between journeys. That space isn’t there at Tara Street.

    The last plan for Tara Street station that I saw had the station entrance being moved onto Tara Street as part of the redevelopment and thereby linking into the new walking route through the development at the Apollo House site through to Townsend Street.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,556 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    The stock still has to go to Connolly or Drogheda for servicing, and again you’re using up valuable line capacity for no really good reason by creating conflicts.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,726 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Surely trains could terminate at Tara and depart there again for the journey south, that would free up capacity crossing the bridge in both directions. They could still go further north at the end of the day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,556 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    It doesn’t because a train terminating there would have to cross both tracks either arriving or departing Tara Street depending on what side of the station a bay platform was located. That’s a waste of capacity in itself.

    The loop line runs from Connolly to Grand Canal Dock. Using paths up for trains that only operate along part of that is a waste.

    Trains that overnight at remote terminals will also be serviced during the day so they still need to continue to Connolly or Drogheda.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,816 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    You said 'expand ... a little bit'. It's not a little. It's an entirely new station basically.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,276 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Would rather Belfast trains went on a new route beside the M1 between Drogheda and Airport, build a new terminal at the airport, passengers going to city centre can take the metro and be in Tara St in 20 mins. In the future connect the new airport rail terminal to Heuston and run Cork to Belfast via Heuston and Airport direct every 20 mins or so if needed. The exisring coastal line between Drogheda and Connolly can become DART only with trans every 2 minutes if there's enough demand and no mixing with intercity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    I was referring to the footprint of the station and the space freed up by the creation of the new metro stop, not the cost. And yes, I agree it would be an entirely new station but I don't understand why that would be a bad thing because the existing station is very substandard by any measure, especially among the city centre locations, particularly because it is also the busiest station in the entire network. Connecting Enterprise to Tara would also better connect it to the city's public transport network and make the journey to the airport much more convenient by train for people in NI.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,556 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    This really is all off-topic, but the fundamental fact remains that terminating trains halfway along a two track railway in bay platforms is a complete waste of the track capacity due to the conflicting movements that it causes, which impacts on available paths in both directions.

    It isn’t going to happen for that reason alone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    I'm glad they didn't listen to you when they developed GCD station because IE seem to manage just fine with terminal services there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,556 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I already explained why GCD is fine.

    Perhaps read my earlier post properly before posting daft comments about me.

    It is a far more logical place to turn services as all the stations on the loop line are served, and it has a central turnback siding which minimises conflict.

    Your idea would reduce the potential number of train paths between Connolly and GCD, which isn’t a good idea.

    Connolly or GCD are optimum turning locations.

    Just maybe try and understand for once that there can be sound operational reasons for why certain ideas, which on the face of it appear sensible, won’t work.

    Post edited by LXFlyer on


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    You're right of course, and the knowledge is always appreciated.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,967 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Can somebody clarify. The Metrolink RO has been published, but has it been submitted to ABP?



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