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Is a cold water storage tank required?

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  • 26-08-2019 4:49pm
    #1
    Blisterman
    Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭


    Part G heavily implies that houses must have a cold water storage tank to supply all taps other than the kitchen sink.

    I was under the impression that nowadays, it's usual to feed all taps directly from the mains without a cold water tank at all.

    Does anyone know what the deal is now from a building regulations standpoint?


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    #2
    Hoagy
    Registered Users Posts: 707 ✭✭✭Hoagy


    It's a requirement. TGD G 2008 is still the current version.


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    #3
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,278 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    In practical terms, it is required so that you can continue flushing the toilet and washing your hands if there is a water disruption. :)


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    #4
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,741 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    Blisterman wrote: »
    I was under the impression that nowadays, it's usual to feed all taps directly from the mains without a cold water tank at all.

    Only the tap to the kitchen sink for food preparation/drinking.

    All other taps in house are generally fed from cold water storage tank.


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    #5
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,513 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Blisterman wrote: »
    Part G heavily implies that houses must have a cold water storage tank to supply all taps other than the kitchen sink.

    I was under the impression that nowadays, it's usual to feed all taps directly from the mains without a cold water tank at all.

    Does anyone know what the deal is now from a building regulations standpoint?

    Yes still required. And a minimum size based on the number of bedrooms is what’s required.

    It’s to insure you have water when Irish water turn off the mains for repair or maintenance.

    Only the kitchen sink should be connected to the mains.


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    #6
    Dudda
    Registered Users Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Dudda


    Would you not rather have it anyway as a back up if it weren't a regulation?


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    #7
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    Blisterman wrote: »
    I was under the impression that nowadays, it's usual to feed all taps directly from the mains without a cold water tank at all.

    No, this goes against both building regulations and Irish Water's regulations and it has been that way for decades.
    As mentioned, which is stipulated in both, only the kitchen sink cold tap and water storage tank are permitted connections to the incoming cold water supply.


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    #8
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,061 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Blisterman wrote: »

    I was under the impression that nowadays, it's usual to feed all taps directly from the mains without a cold water tank at all.

    thats the first time ive ever heard of that impression. i wonder why you have it?


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    #9
    Blisterman
    Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭Blisterman


    Because it's how it's been done in every job I've worked on in other countries.


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    #10
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    Blisterman wrote: »
    Because it's how it's been done in every job I've worked on in other countries.

    That's other countries. If you are going to be doing plumbing work in Ireland you will find things are a bit different here compared to other countries.
    It's all to do with avoiding water back-flowing into the main supply and causing contamination of the drinking water.


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    #11
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,513 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Blisterman wrote: »
    Because it's how it's been done in every job I've worked on in other countries.

    Not over here it ain’t.
    Different country, different legislation.


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    #12
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,425 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    K.Flyer wrote: »
    That's other countries. If you are going to be doing plumbing work in Ireland you will find things are a bit different here compared to other countries.
    It's all to do with avoiding water back-flowing into the main supply and causing contamination of the drinking water.
    OK, so how is that not an issue in those other countries? I'm being serious here, I've lived in both the Netherlands and Germany, not countries known for their lax regulations on such matters, and neither of those required cold water tanks, so what's different about Ireland that makes us special?


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    #13
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    Alun wrote: »
    OK, so how is that not an issue in those other countries? I'm being serious here, I've lived in both the Netherlands and Germany, not countries known for their lax regulations on such matters, and neither of those required cold water tanks, so what's different about Ireland that makes us special?

    It comes down to the infrastructure here.
    Water pressure in Ireland can at times be unreliable, although in recent years it has improved.
    At one time, especially during peak demand, it wasn't unusual for the supply to reduce to a meagre dribble from the tap and if you were at the top of a hill or end of the circuit you could end up with nothing for a short while.
    This could then leave the supply in one property being drawn towards another. So if there was anything attached to the weaker supply (e.g. there used to be a tube off the filling valve in old toilet cisterns to stop the noise of water filling the cistern) this could back flow into the drinking water causing contamination.
    Usually the supply in the rest of europe is high pressure and dependable, we are slowly catching up.
    I used to live in a part of Spain where water interruptions were common and I would much rather have some sort of reserve tank to get by, especially for sanitation purposes.


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    #14
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,425 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    Wouldn't a simple non-return valve on the supply side fix that problem though?


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    #15
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,291 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Blisterman wrote: »
    Part G heavily implies that houses must have a cold water storage tank to supply all taps other than the kitchen sink.

    I was under the impression that nowadays, it's usual to feed all taps directly from the mains without a cold water tank at all.

    Does anyone know what the deal is now from a building regulations standpoint?

    Not sure what gave you that impression...


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    #16
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    Alun wrote: »
    Wouldn't a simple non-return valve on the supply side fix that problem though?

    No, they can fail, getting stuck in the open position. They cannot be relied on.
    I've seen it often enough where failed non-return valves on mains water feeds to heating systems and the isolation valve(s) have been left open causing heating water to back-flow into the potable water.


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    #17
    Blisterman
    Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭Blisterman


    As an additional question, is it allowable to have an addtional mains water connected tap in an en suite for drinking water?


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    #18
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,485 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Toilets fed direct from mains are a disaster as the water is so cold there is a problem with condensation dripping off them and destroying the place.


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    #19
    jester77
    Registered Users Posts: 11,262 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    _Brian wrote: »
    Toilets fed direct from mains are a disaster as the water is so cold there is a problem with condensation dripping off them and destroying the place.

    I have 3 toilets in my house that are connected directly to the mains and have never once seen anything remotely like that.


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    #20
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,513 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Blisterman wrote: »
    As an additional question, is it allowable to have an addtional mains water connected tap in an en suite for drinking water?

    No. The Bye Laws state one point only I believe.
    jester77 wrote: »
    I have 3 toilets in my house that are connected directly to the mains and have never once seen anything remotely like that.

    I wouldn't publically promote breaking the law/breaching bye laws etc


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    #21
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,425 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    kceire wrote: »
    No. The Bye Laws state one point only I believe.
    That makes zero sense. If the argument for having a water tank is all about isolating the public water supply from contamination, what difference does it make if you have two, or even a dozen taps connected to it? A tap in a bathroom isn't going to be any different to a tap anywhere else.


    Makes you wonder how the population of mainland Europe has survived this long what with their crazy mains fed taps and toilets, electrical outlets in bathrooms and plugs without fuses.


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    #22
    jester77
    Registered Users Posts: 11,262 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    kceire wrote: »
    I wouldn't publically promote breaking the law/breaching bye laws etc

    Perfectly legal where I live, and I have no issues with pressure or condensation


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    #23
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,513 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Alun wrote: »
    That makes zero sense. If the argument for having a water tank is all about isolating the public water supply from contamination, what difference does it make if you have two, or even a dozen taps connected to it? A tap in a bathroom isn't going to be any different to a tap anywhere else.


    Makes you wonder how the population of mainland Europe has survived this long what with their crazy mains fed taps and toilets, electrical outlets in bathrooms and plugs without fuses.

    I don't make the regulations or laws so no idea of the justification behind it.
    jester77 wrote: »
    Perfectly legal where I live, and I have no issues with pressure or condensation

    That's perfect so, I assumed you were in Ireland.
    The condensation issue will be temp variant. Its physics with the cold water inside a ceramic bowl within a heated space. Similar to how condensation appears on your pint glass when sitting in the sun terrace in Spain :cool:


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    #24
    Miley Byrne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,377 ✭✭✭Miley Byrne


    Just as a matter of interest, if a house was served by a domestic well would it still require a cold water storage tank?


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    #25
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,513 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Miley Byrne wrote: »
    Just as a matter of interest, if a house was served by a domestic well would it still require a cold water storage tank?

    Yes I think so. The Regulations don't stipulate the source of water so the tank is still a requirement.


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    #26
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,278 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Miley Byrne wrote: »
    Just as a matter of interest, if a house was served by a domestic well would it still require a cold water storage tank?

    In a way it would be more important. If the well fails, it's not like you can pop next door for a few litres / buckets of water.


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    #27
    Miley Byrne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,377 ✭✭✭Miley Byrne


    Victor wrote: »
    In a way it would be more important. If the well fails, it's not like you can pop next door for a few litres / buckets of water.

    Why not?


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    #28
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,278 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Miley Byrne wrote: »
    Why not?
    Because next door is 500 metres away. Carrying buckets that far is a lot of effort. Carrying open buckets of water in a vehicle is problematic.


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    #29
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,513 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Miley Byrne wrote: »
    Why not?

    Next door might have thought the same as you and said scrap the tank and just use the well.


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    #30
    Miley Byrne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,377 ✭✭✭Miley Byrne


    Victor wrote: »
    Because next door is 500 metres away. Carrying buckets that far is a lot of effort. Carrying open buckets of water in a vehicle is problematic.

    Oh OK, if next door is 500 metres away and hadn't access to a car then I can see how it would be a problem alright


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    #31
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    Miley Byrne wrote: »
    Why not?

    Because a litre of water is equal to a kilogram in weight.
    Average toilet cistern flush is 6 litres, you can work the logic for the rest of your requirements from there. :)


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