EU to recommend abolishing DST

Infini · 13-09-2018 3:01pm

CruelCoin wrote: »

"You vill not stop ze eva closa union, ya?"

Short answer, not if the rest of the EU overrules.

What they're specifically looking to do is end the practise of changing times twice a year BUT doing so in a coordinated manor. State's basically decide to pick a timezone to stay in and this applies from the end of next year.

What I don't want myself is permanent Summertime if were to abandon the practise it would be better to be on GMT time permenantly or have our own proper IST which would be 30m behind GMT average. That would mean midday and midnight are the true one's and not off by an hour.

The + side would be there would be no dark morning's in the winter. The downside would be we would have sunrise at 3am in the summer though that being said noone will notice if they're asleep.

13-09-2018 3:42pm

Niles Crane wrote: »

Just as I thought.

Show you the joke the EU has become because it's been put out there that each individual member gets to decide but I suppose a bit like the Lisbon treaty we only get to decide if we happen to agree with what the EU wants.

This could cause me to have to leave my job as I could mean being forced to work 10-6 rather than 9-5.

What’s wrong with working 10-6? It’s much nicer working 10-6 than 9-5. As I’m flexible at work and I’d always drift much more towards starting later and finishing later as I just prefer sleeping in the morning and working a little later in the evening. It also means I leave the house at or after 9 thus miss all the traffic and can get from home to my city Centre (not Dublin) parking spot in about 15 to 20 mins rather than anything from 25 to 40mins leaving at say 8:20.

I really hope this happens (permenant summer time that is, no way should we have permenant winter time) as I have been calling for it for years. I’d it goes to a vote it will fly through as most will be in favor or else hopefully the eu just forces it through. If It’s left up to the gov to make a decision who knows what will happen.

Niles Crane · 13-09-2018 4:20pm

Leroy Cuddly Warmonger wrote: »

What’s wrong with working 10-6? It’s much nicer working 10-6 than 9-5. As I’m flexible at work and I’d always drift much more towards staying later and finishing later as I just prefer sleeping in the morning and working a little later in the evening. It also means I leave the house at or after 9 thus miss all the traffic and can get from home to my city Centre (not Dublin) parking spot in about 15 to 20 mins rather than anything from 25 to 40mins leaving at say 8:20.

I really hope this happens (permenant summer time that is, no way should we have permenant winter time) as I have been calling for it for years. I’d it goes to a vote it will fly through as most will be in favor or else hopefully the eu just forces it through. If It’s left up to the gov to make a decision who knows what will happen.

I live in the midlands work in Dublin.

It would mean getting home after 8pm each night.

I won't beenfit from the supposed extra daylight we are going to get either.

I have a feeling most people would rather start work earlier and finish earlier than the other way around, thats certainly how my colleagues feel anyway.

EdgeCase · 13-09-2018 4:28pm

I'd say it would actually make more of a difference in the Nordic region where they're further north than here but also tend to start work at 8am, rather than 9.

I think in an Irish context, it probably doesn't make a huge difference. The winter days are short enough that it's going to be fairly dark one way or the other in the morning anyway.

VinLieger · 13-09-2018 4:29pm

All i know is I would definitely keep our sunny summer evenings, we already have dark winter mornings

EdgeCase · 13-09-2018 4:31pm

VinLieger wrote: »

All i know is I would definitely keep our sunny summer evenings, we already have dark winter mornings

Even with GMT in summer, you'd have sunset on 21st June in Dublin at 9pm and dusky conditions for a couple of hours after that.

We have hugely long days in the summer due to the latitude rather than the clock adjustments.

seamus · 13-09-2018 4:33pm

Niles Crane wrote: »

Have we the right to just leave things as they are.

Yes, we do.

VinLieger · 13-09-2018 4:40pm

EdgeCase wrote: »

Even with GMT in summer, you'd have sunset on 21st June in Dublin at 9pm and dusky conditions for a couple of hours after that.

We have hugely long days in the summer due to the latitude rather than the clock adjustments.

And the sun would rise at 4:00 am wheres the sense in that?

13-09-2018 5:02pm

Niles Crane wrote: »

I have a feeling most people would rather start work earlier and finish earlier than the other way around, thats certainly how my colleagues feel anyway.

Not sure I’d agree with that as I said I have very flexible working hours as do the others in my office, the place opens at 7am and closes at 12 midnight and you will find more people in the office at 10pm than 8am. The odd time I’m in a little before 9 for a 9am call (though I often just take these early calls from home rather than have to get up) the place is very quiet at 9am, it’s really only from about 9:15 or so people start to filter in up until about 10am or a bit after.

VinLieger · 13-09-2018 5:14pm

Simply put if we choose to stick with winter time we are choosing to lose an hour of daylight during the summer, if we stick with summer time, we keep the same number of hours of daylight during the winter it just shifts forward a bit later in the day.

Why would we choose to lose an hour of daylight for 7 months?

Cork Boy 53 · 13-09-2018 6:28pm

VinLieger wrote: »

Simply put if we choose to stick with winter time we are choosing to lose an hour of daylight during the summer, if we stick with summer time, we keep the same number of hours of daylight during the winter it just shifts forward a bit later in the day.

Why would we choose to lose an hour of daylight for 7 months?

How are we losing an hour of daylight in the summer? What you stated about the winter months also applies to the summer, whether the clocks change or not there will always be the same number of hours of daylight during the summer.

Irish Kings · 13-09-2018 6:36pm

Niles Crane wrote: »

This could cause me to have to leave my job as I could mean being forced to work 10-6 rather than 9-5.

This is the thing that is being ignored by EU office crats. The present system doesn't exist for the craic.
This populist announcement hasn't been thought through, especially the effects the in far west of the EU.

This is going to be a big issue for a lot of outdoor workers (who lets face it don't matter in political terms). Many work 8-6 or longer as it is, so it'll be 9-7pm for a lot of them in the winter in order to make the most of earlier daylight as it's more valuable to construction and other outdoor work than late daylight is, giving them even less time with their families.

dxhound2005 · 13-09-2018 6:44pm

If the clocks were the same time all year round, and EU countries started a consultation to change them twice a year, the anti EU brigade would be out in force complaining about that. They just want some stick to beat the "Eurocrats" with, nothing to do with workers.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 13-09-2018 6:44pm

BarryD2 wrote: »

Absurd only to those that lie about in bed in the morning and stay up all night on boards! There should be roughly the same amount of daylight either side of midday. That's the whole concept of midday and that is 'wintertime' - a pejorative term if ever there was one. Should be changed to 'normaltime'.

For those that rise early for whatever reason, maximum daylight is valued and should be retained. If people feel that longer daylight in winter evenings is more valuable, well let them get up earlier and retune their diurnal rhythms.

They are getting up a an hour earlier. That’s what summer time literally is. If you want solar time use a solar clock.

RobertKK · 13-09-2018 6:48pm

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

How are we losing an hour of daylight in the summer? What you stated about the winter months also applies to the summer, whether the clocks change or not there will always be the same number of hours of daylight during the summer.

Not many people get up around 4am in June to make use of the dawn light.
Imagine it could be getting bright just after 3am if we kept winter time.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 13-09-2018 6:49pm

Niles Crane wrote: »

I live in the midlands work in Dublin.

It would mean getting home after 8pm each night.

I won't beenfit from the supposed extra daylight we are going to get either.

I have a feeling most people would rather start work earlier and finish earlier than the other way around, thats certainly how my colleagues feel anyway.

You realise that you would only have to start work at 10pm for one or two months if you actually need full daylight to work.

If you had full winter time you’d get home in darkness about 8 months of the year.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 13-09-2018 6:58pm

EdgeCase wrote: »

Even with GMT in summer, you'd have sunset on 21st June in Dublin at 9pm and dusky conditions for a couple of hours after that.

We have hugely long days in the summer due to the latitude rather than the clock adjustments.

That’s the maximum. A few weeks either from the mid summer and it will be sunset at 8 or so. Sunset today - September 13 would be at 6:50. It would be dark by 8pm in early May and late August.

The loss of total evening hours would be fairly substantial.

Cork Boy 53 · 13-09-2018 7:00pm

RobertKK wrote: »

Not many people get up around 4am in June to make use of the dawn light.
Imagine it could be getting bright just after 3am if we kept winter time.

Actually strictly speaking at our latitude, for 4 or 5 weeks either side of the summer solstice, the sky doesn`t get completely dark at all. So the change would be less noticeable than a lot of people are making it out to be.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 13-09-2018 7:02pm

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Actually strictly speaking at our latitude, for 4 or 5 weeks either side of the summer solstice, the sky doesn`t get completely dark at all. So the change would be less noticeable than a lot of people are making it out to be.

Of course people will notice.

I’d prefer to keep winter time and summer time but year long summer time is preferable.

Niles Crane · 13-09-2018 7:08pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

You realise that you would only have to start work at 10pm for one or two months if you actually need full daylight to work.

If you had full winter time you’d get home in darkness about 8 months of the year.

I work with UK customers if we don't align with them in this time zone change it could affect my job and could be a tipping point for me staying with the job.

dxhound2005 · 13-09-2018 7:08pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Of course people will notice.

I’d prefer to keep winter time and summer time but year long summer time is preferable.

After a couple of years there will be nothing to notice.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 13-09-2018 7:24pm

Niles Crane wrote: »

I work with UK customers if we don't align with them in this time zone change it could affect my job and could be a tipping point for me staying with the job.

You moved the goalposts there. The British will probably do what the EU does.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 13-09-2018 7:27pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

After a couple of years there will be nothing to notice.

There will be 100s of hours of evening daylight missing to notice. All to save a bit of daylight in the mornings in late Feb and early Jan.

Harry Palmr · 13-09-2018 7:28pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

You moved the goalposts there. The British will probably do what the EU does.

The EU is doing nothing.

Cork Boy 53 · 13-09-2018 7:29pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

You moved the goalposts there. The British will probably do what the EU does.

Actually a spokesperson for the UK government has said that there are no plans to change the current system of changing the clocks twice a year.

dxhound2005 · 13-09-2018 7:31pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

There will be 100s of hours of evening daylight missing to notice. All to save a bit of daylight in the mornings in late Feb and early Jan.

Depends where you are, if it is to apply to lots of countries. People in America have to live with 15 degree longitude time zones.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 13-09-2018 8:00pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The EU is doing nothing.

Of ffs. What the constituent countries of the EU are doing.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 13-09-2018 8:02pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Depends where you are, if it is to apply to lots of countries. People in America have to live with 15 degree longitude time zones.

Depends where we are? Here we are. In Ireland. That’s where the 100s of hours of afternoon daylight is going to be lost if we go to wintertime.

With Britain not changing this is becoming absurd though.

13-09-2018 8:41pm

Niles Crane wrote: »

I work with UK customers if we don't align with them in this time zone change it could affect my job and could be a tipping point for me staying with the job.

I work with people all over the EU all the time and the hours time difference makes no difference aside from the odd time I can’t refuse a lunchtime meeting (as it’s there 2pm) or if they have a 9am meeting I just take it from home at 8am before going into work. It will make little to no difference for you working with the UK and it’s only for some of the year also.

Making that a 2 hour difference if they change and we don’t could start to get a bit more annoying but still not a disaster.

Jimbob1977 · 13-09-2018 9:33pm

While it's great to have December daylight until 5.45pm or 6pm, our children would be starting school in almost darkness. Dawn would occur around 9am.

Cork Boy 53 · 13-09-2018 9:37pm

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

While it's great to have December daylight until 5.45pm or 6pm, our children would be starting school in almost darkness. Dawn would occur around 9am.

Which did happen for a few years at the end of the 60s and beginning of the 70s. I don't remember it causing any huge issues at the time.

dxhound2005 · 13-09-2018 9:42pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Depends where we are? Here we are. In Ireland. That’s where the 100s of hours of afternoon daylight is going to be lost if we go to wintertime.

With Britain not changing this is becoming absurd though.

It's 21:42 in Portugal, 22:42 just over the Spanish border. People can adapt to "absurd" conditions. And like I said the new regime will soon establish itself, and there will be no variance from year to year to provoke comment. Guaranteed that if the new regime was in for twenty years, and and attempt was made to go back, there would be similar outrage.

Little Less Conversation · 13-09-2018 9:46pm

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

While it's great to have December daylight until 5.45pm or 6pm, our children would be starting school in almost darkness. Dawn would occur around 9am.

It's dark at 4.30pm in December. That hour wouldn't really make a whole difference really.

13-09-2018 9:56pm

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

While it's great to have December daylight until 5.45pm or 6pm, our children would be starting school in almost darkness. Dawn would occur around 9am.

So what, they are in a classroom it doesn't matter if its dark or bright. Much better to have the light in the evening.

UrbanSprawl · 13-09-2018 10:05pm

Great ..abolish that nonsense.

CruelCoin · 14-09-2018 12:16am

dxhound2005 wrote: »

It's 21:42 in Portugal, 22:42 just over the Spanish border. People can adapt to "absurd" conditions. And like I said the new regime will soon establish itself, and there will be no variance from year to year to provoke comment. Guaranteed that if the new regime was in for twenty years, and and attempt was made to go back, there would be similar outrage.

Absurd are the timezones in Jerusalem.

The Palestinians and Israelis observe different timezones. In the same city.
And yet, the sky has not fallen in, by Toutatis.

Yer Da sells Avon · 14-09-2018 12:34am

Leroy Cuddly Warmonger wrote: »

So what, they are in a classroom it doesn't matter if its dark or bright. Much better to have the light in the evening.

It's inevitable that even more of them will end up being driven to school than is currently the case. Expect serious traffic problems and maybe also an increase in children getting hit by cars on the way to school.

VinLieger · 14-09-2018 8:17am

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

It's inevitable that even more of them will end up being driven to school than is currently the case. Expect serious traffic problems and maybe also an increase in children getting hit by cars on the way to school.

Children are already walking to school in the dark during these months as they need to catch buses and trains prior to 8 o clock and as many have pointed out it doesn't get bright till 9 for several weeks anyway, so that statement is hyperbolic nonsense that you have zero evidence to support and you are simply trying to play off peoples emotions rather than deal in facts.

VinLieger · 14-09-2018 8:24am

Leroy Cuddly Warmonger wrote: »

So what, they are in a classroom it doesn't matter if its dark or bright. Much better to have the light in the evening.

Indeed people are constantly complaining children are spending too much time in doors and not enough outside playing, this would allow for more of that during the winter months

Franz Von Peppercorn · 14-09-2018 9:59am

Little Less Conversation wrote: »

It's dark at 4.30pm in December. That hour wouldn't really make a whole difference really.

It will be 7pm in February.

The best solution here would be a 2 month winter time.

VinLieger · 14-09-2018 10:40am

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

It will be 7pm in February.

The best solution here would be a 2 month winter time.

Indeed we should have switched to a shorter winter clock decades ago

Little Less Conversation · 14-09-2018 10:40am

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

It will be 7pm in February.

The best solution here would be a 2 month winter time.

Yeah for the two worst months, December and January.

I don't think I can deal with it being dark at 10am. That hour in the evening in Irish weather won't do much anyway. People are saying it will be great to get out but in the rain. No it won't.

Cork Boy 53 · 14-09-2018 10:40am

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

It will be 7pm in February.

The best solution here would be a 2 month winter time.

Not going to happen.

Yer Da sells Avon · 14-09-2018 12:21pm

VinLieger wrote: »

Children are already walking to school in the dark during these months as they need to catch buses and trains prior to 8 o clock and as many have pointed out it doesn't get bright till 9 for several weeks anyway, so that statement is hyperbolic nonsense that you have zero evidence to support and you are simply trying to play off peoples emotions rather than deal in facts.

Even in the middle of December, it gets bright before 9 - generally between 8:15 and 8:45am. And yes, I have evidence to support that. Without DST, it will be dark at 9am, when most schools open. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect an increase in traffic, as fewer people will be prepared to allow their children to walk to school in pitch-darkness. I also don't think it's hyperbolic to suggest that darker mornings might result in children getting hit by cars.

VinLieger · 14-09-2018 4:07pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

I also don't think it's hyperbolic to suggest that darker mornings might result in children getting hit by cars.

Apologies if you missed the piece of your post i literally highlighted so ill make it easier by just quoting this piece of garbage by itself so as not to confuse you again.

Its completely hyperbolic and you have zero evidence to support such a claim, it is an argument based on playing off peoples emotions which is pathetic.

Traffic is a silly consideration again as I pointed out children are not only walking to schools between 8:30 and 9:00am. Many start their journey's as early as 7:00-7:30 when it would most definitely still be pitch black so your theory is garbage as quite a lot of children already make their journeys to school in the dark during these months and we don't ever see a rash of children suddenly being hit by cars during these dark months.

Yer Da sells Avon · 14-09-2018 9:52pm

VinLieger wrote: »

Its completely hyperbolic and you have zero evidence to support such a claim, it is an argument based on playing off peoples emotions which is pathetic.

Calm down there, and dial the histrionics down a bit. I don't need to provide evidence for something that I said might happen.

VinLieger · 15-09-2018 11:07am

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Calm down there, and dial the histrionics down a bit. I don't need to provide evidence for something that I said might happen.

Actually you do, its called backing up a claim, if you cant then that claim is quite obviously bullsh1t.

Also specifically your one is nothing more than a childish emotional argument straight out of the simpons "wont somebody please think of the children!!!!"

Yer Da sells Avon · 15-09-2018 11:09am

VinLieger wrote: »

Actually you do, its called backing up a claim, if you cant then that claim is quite obviously bullsh1t, and specifically your one is nothing more than a childish emotional argument straught out of the simpobs "wont somebody please think of the children!!!!"

No, you think it's bullshit. And that's fine.

Mezcita · 15-09-2018 11:10am

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

No, you think it's bullshit. And that's fine.

No seriously, it's bull****.

VinLieger · 15-09-2018 11:10am

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

No, you think it's bullshit. And that's fine.

Heres an example, your mother "might" be a goat and your father an alien but i dont have to back it up or admit im wrong cus i used the word "might". Do you get how ridiculous your logic is now?

EU to recommend abolishing DST

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