Ever think you'll own your own place?

Glenster · 03-04-2017 4:37pm

andekwarhola wrote: »

Doesn't matter if they're getting it for 10 cents a week.

If the local authority buy it, they can rent it out for what they want.

Just like you or any other owner can.

You'd swear the local authority was a removed and autonomous entity that had nothing to do with the rest of us.

They take money out of our back pocket and give it, in the form of a free house, to scroungers.

All the while we're living like pigs for years to afford a deposit.

Seanachai · 03-04-2017 4:53pm

Glenster wrote: »

You'd swear the local authority was a removed and autonomous entity that had nothing to do with the rest of us.

They take money out of our back pocket and give it, in the form of a free house, to scroungers.

All the while we're living like pigs for years to afford a deposit.

There will be a certain amount of people abusing the system, the rest are just not in a position to afford a mortgage however. Any advanced nation has to provide a certain amount of social housing to bridge the shortfall.

andekwarhola · 03-04-2017 5:08pm

Glenster wrote: »

You'd swear the local authority was a removed and autonomous entity that had nothing to do with the rest of us.

They take money out of our back pocket and give it, in the form of a free house, to scroungers.

All the while we're living like pigs for years to afford a deposit.

Lots of people pay tax, not just people you agree with.

There is a need for such housing whether or not you like it. It might as well be owned by the local authority and generate rental income (none of them are 'free') rather than paying market rates to private landlords which erodes even more public money.

I'm not jealous of any neighbours that have houses from the council. They earn less and won't ever own the house. It's hardly a cause for jealousy.

Wheeliebin30 · 03-04-2017 5:18pm

andekwarhola wrote: »

Lots of people pay tax, not just people you agree with.

There is a need for such housing whether or not you like it. It might as well be owned by the local authority and generate rental income (none of them are 'free') rather than paying market rates to private landlords which erodes even more public money.

I'm not jealous of any neighbours that have houses from the council. They earn less and won't ever own the house. It's hardly a cause for jealously.

Where's the incentive for people to try get their own house by working if we just hand them out because people say they can't afford one.

Not all are unemployed of course but a lot are in social housing.

It's not fair someone getting the same house for 40 a week compared to someone who has to pay 1000 a month. It's not fair and never will be.

Also councils coming in and just blowing working people's bids by 20k to give it to someone for next to nothing is not fair.

If you work hard and earn good money you still can't compete with councils and open chequebooks.

It's really not fair.

jimgoose · 03-04-2017 5:27pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Where's the incentive for people to try get their own house by working if we just hand them out because people say they can't afford one...

The vast majority of Council/Corporation houses were built by those bodies back in the day. And well-built they are and all, I have one. They get involved with private landlords via the rent allowance system, and they offer ten-year leases to private owners in some areas to use houses for social housing, but they don't purchase new builds on the open market.

pilly · 03-04-2017 5:28pm

jimgoose wrote: »

The vast majority of Council/Corporation houses were built by those bodies back in the day. And well-built they are and all, I have one. They get involved with private landlords via the rent allowance system, and they offer ten-year leases to private owners in some areas to use houses for social housing, but they don't purchase new builds on the open market.

I thought that 10% of all new developments had to be designated social housing no?

jimgoose · 03-04-2017 5:29pm

pilly wrote: »

I thought that 10% of all new developments had to be designated social housing no?

I'd heard a rumour to that affect. After discovering that developers may circumvent this regulation by crossing certain palms with silver, I have concluded that those rumours were mistaken. A builder will chew his own right arm off just above the elbow before he'll do any such thing - how can he plonk one-in-ten houses for the poor dears in the middle of the latest "Mullingar - Your Gateway To The Capital!!" at 400k a pop??

FutureGuy · 03-04-2017 6:30pm

It's funny how some people complain about not being able to afford a deposit when they spent 25k on a wedding a few years previous.

Dem priorities.

Pac1Man · 03-04-2017 7:13pm

FutureGuy wrote: »

It's funny how some people complain about not being able to afford a deposit when they spent 25k on a wedding a few years previous.

Dem priorities.

Whilst I agree, do people seriously do that?!

_Kaiser_ · 03-04-2017 7:14pm

I'm single and earning "good money" ... but I'm also tied to Dublin for work, have already been priced out of living there unless I want to pay ridiculous rents or houseshare, and I also have a little fella to think about and support.

Result: I live an hour away from both and commute which costs me a fortune, but buying is not on the cards as the only 2 places it'd make sense to (work or son) are wayy out of budget on a single salary and finding a job near him isn't easy (I've been trying)

Wheeliebin30 · 03-04-2017 7:25pm

jimgoose wrote: »

I'd heard a rumour to that affect. After discovering that developers may circumvent this regulation by crossing certain palms with silver, I have concluded that those rumours were mistaken. A builder will chew his own right arm off just above the elbow before he'll do any such thing - how can he plonk one-in-ten houses for the poor dears in the middle of the latest "Mullingar - Your Gateway To The Capital!!" at 400k a pop??

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/reduced-social-housing-quota-set-to-encourage-building-1.2337762%3Fmode%3Damp

You're wrong. It's the law now 10% has to be for social housing.

Elemonator · 03-04-2017 7:46pm

I'm not entirely sure if I will. I'm lucky in the sense that there is a job in every town for me essentially (I will be a solicitor). But then again the stereotype that solicitors and barristers make a fortune is not true in the slightest, only some make it to that level. I'm hoping to get my Blackhall fees paid for by the firm I work for but there is a lot of competition out there for that. If I don't, I'll be starting out post qualification €12,500 down for just the fees. I have a bit of wealth behind me with my mum and dad so we'll just have to see!

jimgoose · 03-04-2017 8:07pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/reduced-social-housing-quota-set-to-encourage-building-1.2337762%3Fmode%3Damp

You're wrong. It's the law now 10% has to be for social housing.

Good.

Wheeliebin30 · 03-04-2017 8:09pm

jimgoose wrote: »

Good.

Let's all just stop paying our mortgages and avail of a house for 40 euro a week.

Why not.

jimgoose · 03-04-2017 8:16pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Let's all just stop paying our mortgages and avail of a house for 40 euro a week.

Why not.

Off witcha biy. Just do it, if it's such a fantastic idea.

Wheeliebin30 · 03-04-2017 8:19pm

jimgoose wrote: »

Off witcha biy. Just do it, if it's such a fantastic idea.

I think more and more people are sadly doing it.

The endless magic money tree won't last forever.

marketty · 03-04-2017 8:33pm

People are criticising FTBs for 'wanting it all' in their first house rather than buying a so called starter home and trading up. Couple of problems with that. 'Trading up' is partly reliant on house prices continually increasing year on year, and we all know how that ends up. Secondly, the central bank restrictions and the 'help to buy scheme' (aka more government meddling) both conspire against those looking to trade up. Also, FTBs are rarely in their 20s nowadays, if you're 35 it's not going to be 10 years until you need a bigger house for your growing family. All of the above push FTBs to buy once, buy right. People in their early 30s right now are looking to buy a house they can stay in for a long time.

Sue Pa Key Pa · 03-04-2017 9:22pm

Pac1Man wrote: »

Whilst I agree, do people seriously do that?!

You need to have a look at the Weddings forum to see what some people spend their limited resources on

Yourself isit · 03-04-2017 9:31pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

I think more and more people are sadly doing it.

The endless magic money tree won't last forever.

Unless you want people on the street then we need social housing. The options are

1) subsidise private landlords
2) build social housing.

In the second case there's an income to the council. In the first case there isn't.

Yourself isit · 03-04-2017 9:34pm

marketty wrote: »

People are criticising FTBs for 'wanting it all' in their first house rather than buying a so called starter home and trading up. Couple of problems with that. 'Trading up' is partly reliant on house prices continually increasing year on year, and we all know how that ends up. Secondly, the central bank restrictions and the 'help to buy scheme' (aka more government meddling) both conspire against those looking to trade up. Also, FTBs are rarely in their 20s nowadays, if you're 35 it's not going to be 10 years until you need a bigger house for your growing family. All of the above push FTBs to buy once, buy right. People in their early 30s right now are looking to buy a house they can stay in for a long time.

All excellent points. The average age last year of the ftb was 34 (it was 38 in 2010 though)

Shurimgreat · 03-04-2017 9:44pm

Without supply, house prices will always stay high.

With the massive influx of jobs to Dublin lately and more to come with Brexit, the only solution to Dublin housing is to build up, something the planners are the last to understand it seems.

Not allowing this development seems bizarre in the extreme.

http://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/council-throws-out-ires-reits-170m-plan-for-500-flats-35587511.html

Particularly laughable is this part:

It added that the planned development would also detract from the visual dominance of the unfinished Sentinel building at the Rockbrook site.

So they didn't want to overshadow a shell of a building? Madness!

The housing crisis is a symptom of disastrous short term planning, an inability to consider high quality high rise but also poor spatial planning.

Lia_lia · 03-04-2017 9:58pm

We (myself and the OH) will probably buy a house in the next few years. We'd be on about 80K between us, in our mid-late 20's, and our rent is currently €900 per month between us. We save quite a lot but at the same time we do enjoy ourselves like going on holidays etc.. We live in Cork City where house prices are fairly high, nowhere near Dublin prices though! I'd like to live near enough to the city. He's very fussy about where he'd want to buy a house, which is fair enough I guess. A long commute would be my idea of hell. At the moment my commute is a 10 minute drive..
Still would be a few years away though. We've no reason to buy a house at the moment. There are only two of us and our rent is relatively cheap.

Most (well, everyone) I know has got some sort of help from their parents to buy their houses. Usually in the form of most of the deposit. Both our parents have no money, so will never happen with us. I do get a bit jealous when friends of mine get handed thousands of euro when they could just save it themselves. Oh well, I'd take it too I guess. :pac:

buddyboy · 03-04-2017 10:14pm

Im( 35) renting in Dublin, two couples sharing, lease is up in the summer so rather than stay here and pay even more over the odds for this place, we're going to take a hit and move back home with the folks for a year or so and save like rabbits. I'm on decent money on paper, we should be able to save about 2k a month and with saving other equities etc. I bought back with my ex in 2007(just as the last bubble burst!) and still fighting to get out of that mortgage/property so it will be a challenge to get approval. Would like to buy in Dublin or surrounding towns since my career and family are here, but if prices keep going up the way they are there will be nothing to buy. The plan was something for 300k but thats now looking like 350k! Seems like ill have to go back to doing those male stripper nixers at the weekend to raise a bit more cash

RobertKK · 03-04-2017 10:16pm

I never bought a house, but was given the family home when I was 20 years old.

Seanachai · 04-04-2017 11:30am

buddyboy wrote: »

Im( 35) renting in Dublin, two couples sharing, lease is up in the summer so rather than stay here and pay even more over the odds for this place, we're going to take a hit and move back home with the folks for a year or so and save like rabbits. I'm on decent money on paper, we should be able to save about 2k a month and with saving other equities etc. I bought back with my ex in 2007(just as the last bubble burst!) and still fighting to get out of that mortgage/property so it will be a challenge to get approval. Would like to buy in Dublin or surrounding towns since my career and family are here, but if prices keep going up the way they are there will be nothing to buy. The plan was something for 300k but thats now looking like 350k! Seems like ill have to go back to doing those male stripper nixers at the weekend to raise a bit more cash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44-EhGCZoNM

Wanderer78 · 04-04-2017 11:34am

the free-for-all market is done im afraid, and im not sure anybody really knows what to do about it. i feel sorry for those caught in the middle if it

Seanachai · 04-04-2017 11:45am

I was thinking about this more last night, I'm living in Dublin nearly thirteen years now. I've lived in house shares and studio flats for the last ten years, I've never lived in an apartment block. I could live with never owning my own property, provided where I was living had a community atmosphere, I'm not running down people's homes here but I just don't see that around most of the apartment blocks or new estates. I come from rural Ireland and still have an identity that's strongly linked to where I'm from, there are also older urban areas that have a distinct identity and character, even if they are a bit run down.

Politicians and planners are saying that we need to let go of the strong desire in our makeup to own our own home and follow the lead of European countries and make peace with renting for life. What they're not saying is that while in Europe while many people do rent for life, it's a local enterprise with leases often being inter-generational. If I was starting a family I would 100% strive towards owning the home, I would consider it vital in putting down some kind of roots.

There's a huge difference between a community made up of tenants that has a heritage in the area and renting from a vulture fund or absentee landlord. I see place as being crucially linked with identity and psychological health. I think I'd become seriously depressed living ten floors up in an apartment where I have no connection to anybody living around me, other than passing them in the hall on the way to and from work.

eeguy · 04-04-2017 11:54am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

the free-for-all market is done im afraid, and im not sure anybody really knows what to do about it. i feel sorry for those caught in the middle if it

You've said this on many threads, but have never given any reasonable alternative or solution. Until there is an alternative the free market will continue indefinitely.

Regarding increase in prices, it's in the best interest for 90% of the population that property prices increase, since its almost eliminated negative equity in many parts of the country and allows people to sell and move.
hence why it's an unofficial govt policy.

Winterlong · 04-04-2017 12:02pm

eeguy wrote: »

Regarding increase in prices, it's in the best interest for 90% of the population that property prices increase, since its almost eliminated negative equity in many parts of the country and allows people to sell and move.
hence why it's an unofficial govt policy.

And it improves the banks balance sheets.
And guess who will be trying to sell off their bank stakes soon?!

eeguy · 04-04-2017 12:12pm

Winterlong wrote: »

And it improves the banks balance sheets.
And guess who will be trying to sell off their bank stakes soon?!

Exactly. Unfortunately it's a case of needs of the many vs needs of the few.

It's better to have 5k homeless than 100k in negative equity. House prices need to increase to incentivise building, which is why nothing has been built in the last 5 years.

jimgoose · 04-04-2017 12:14pm

Winterlong wrote: »

And it improves the banks balance sheets.
And guess who will be trying to sell off their bank stakes soon?!

The notion of inflating your way out of debt is nothing new and considered fairly standard by economists. Unfortunately it usually inflates some people into difficulty of some kind, as is the way with property.

Wanderer78 · 04-04-2017 12:16pm

eeguy wrote: »

You've said this on many threads, but have never given any reasonable alternative or solution. Until there is an alternative the free market will continue indefinitely.

Regarding increase in prices, it's in the best interest for 90% of the population that property prices increase, since its almost eliminated negative equity in many parts of the country and allows people to sell and move.
hence why it's an unofficial govt policy.

im glad you ve said this, there are actually alternative systems out there, but the free-for-all market is not achieving what we re being lead to believe. we re being lead to beleive that this system increases the possibility of the majority to prosper but the opposite is in fact the truth. true wealth is actually trickling up by the complex systems of this system and the majority are being indebted by trickle down.

the language used by this system is actually orwellian in nature, i.e. it is almost opposite to what it is saying, i.e. theres nothing free about this system particularly for the majority.

an interesting project:

http://thenextsystem.org/

i.e. there are people working on possible alternative systems, and there are some interesting ideas coming from these projects

Vojera · 04-04-2017 1:01pm

Lia_lia wrote: »

Most (well, everyone) I know has got some sort of help from their parents to buy their houses. Usually in the form of most of the deposit. Both our parents have no money, so will never happen with us. I do get a bit jealous when friends of mine get handed thousands of euro when they could just save it themselves. Oh well, I'd take it too I guess.

Same here. It makes me feel like a bad person to have those jealous twinges. I'm happy for them, but I wish I could get the same help. Anyone I know my age (early 30s) who has bought recently have all either:
a) moved home for several years to save
b) had a vacant family home to move into while they save
c) been given money by their parents
None of those options apply to me or my wife, nor will they ever apply, so plodding away at paying rent it is.

And honestly, we don't plan on having children so it's not like I want to buy a house to have something to pass on. It's that I know we won't be able to afford to continue renting once we retire, so it's that bit of security I'm after. If renting was done differently here it might help a lot of people.

Winterlong · 04-04-2017 1:05pm

Vojera wrote: »

Same here. It makes me feel like a bad person to have those jealous twinges. I'm happy for them, but I wish I could get the same help. Anyone I know my age (early 30s) who has bought recently have all either:
a) moved home for several years to save
b) had a vacant family home to move into while they save
c) been given money by their parents
None of those options apply to me or my wife, nor will they ever apply, so plodding away at paying rent it is.

And honestly, we don't plan on having children so it's not like I want to buy a house to have something to pass on. It's that I know we won't be able to afford to continue renting once we retire, so it's that bit of security I'm after. If renting was done differently here it might help a lot of people.

And that is probably the big difference with a lot of people my age (40s). Most of my friends bought a 'starter' property either here or abroad and then after a few years cashed in and bought one of those 400-500k houses during the celtic tiger years.

04-04-2017 1:17pm

I didn't know about the govt help to buy scheme
When did that come in

Ever think you'll own your own place?

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