Ever think you'll own your own place?

Elessar

For those of you who haven't yet bought a place, do you ever think you will?

I was having a look at the prices in some estate agents recently and was shocked to say the least. Most were going for €600-700k. Now granted this was in an apparently desirable part of Dublin (Malahide), but even further out, places like Donabate and parts of Swords I'm still seeing lots of €400-500k+ houses.

I'm not sure how are people affording these. There's obviously a significant number of people who can. But if you haven't bought yet, particularly if you're in Dublin, do you reckon you will be able to?

Gunslinger92

I'm 25, living in Dublin, salary is in the low 30s, and I highly doubt I will

_Brian

There's plenty of life outside Dublin and indeed even outside the pale.

Mich easier to afford a living and a house too.

DontThankMe

No but sure the government will provide me with a house it's grand.

tomwaterford

Not a hope....toyed with the idea/dream of building a house.....but would never get a mortgage (well 2.5 times my income wouldn't build a house)



All this is based on the presumption I'll never win the lotto

gramar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxBSUA5pUgg

Noveight

At some stage, yeh.

Pac1Man

tomwaterford wrote: »

Not a hope....toyed with the idea/dream of building a house.....but would never get a mortgage (well 2.5 times my income wouldn't build a house)

All this is based on the presumption I'll never win the lotto

'Tis 3.5 times.

Did I just make this dream come true?!

SEPT 23 1989

Anyone on less than 35k should have their names on the housing list

Ash.J.Williams

Me never

Akrasia

Bought a 3 bed semi in a nice part of Ennis with a nice big south facing garden for 84k last year.

Dublin house prices are insane.

Glenster

Elessar wrote: »

For those of you who haven't yet bought a place, do you ever think you will?

I was having a look at the prices in some estate agents recently and was shocked to say the least. Most were going for €600-700k. Now granted this was in an apparently desirable part of Dublin (Malahide), but even further out, places like Donabate and parts of Swords I'm still seeing lots of €400-500k+ houses.

I'm not sure how are people affording these. There's obviously a significant number of people who can. But if you haven't bought yet, particularly if you're in Dublin, do you reckon you will be able to?

your pricing seems in the high side.

if you're willing to live on the north side you can get a decent 3 bed for 350.

you could swing that on salaries of 35 and 25k, assuming you don't have massive debts.

the deposit is a matter of saving for two/three years.

BlinkingLights

I think I'll probably just emigrate to the continent as soon as I can find a decent job there (I'm actively looking at the moment). The cost of housing here and the quality of what you get are just dire compared to a lot of Northern Europe.

I can rent in quite a few countries on an on-going basis more like a commercial lease - it's a viable prospect for the rest of my days, whereas in Ireland if I can't buy I'm basically condemned to dealing with crumby landlords, bad furniture, bad decor, poor quality, no stability of lease and being able to be turfed out.

Renting here was always seen as some kind of temporary situation for those who were just not buying yet. It's become a permanent thing for many of us now and the structures (legal framework, supply of quality homes, inspection regime, etc etc) are not in place to make it work.

I don't really want to live in the middle of nowhere (where I could afford a house) and I don't want to live in a hovel or share in my 30s in Dublin, Cork etc. So, my options are looking more like Germany now.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

CelticRambler

_Brian wrote: »

There's plenty of life outside Dublin and indeed even outside the pale.

Mich easier to afford a living and a house too.

That was my analysis when "an opportunity arose" to move back to Dublin in 2003 from the UK.

Fortunately, I saw sense and swapped the remainder of a 30-year UK mortgage on a wooden hut for the cash purchase of a real house not in Dublin. Signed on the dotted line 13 years and 5 days ago and haven't regretted it one little bit. :cool:

thierry14

Akrasia wrote: »

Bought a 3 bed semi in a nice part of Ennis with a nice big south facing garden for 84k last year.

Dublin house prices are insane.

Did similar

Moved out of Dublin bought a 4 bed with garage in west Limerick for 120k last year too

Sure I had to take a hit with salary from 45k to 38k but similar property would be around 300k in Dublin

Had thought about buying in Dublin as we could get mortgage up to 300k but with child, working full time just isn't worth it for wife with childcare costs and transport

Rent had increased to 1500pm and baby was coming so had no choice but to leave

Vojera

In Dublin, not a chance. And easy as it is to say to just move somewhere else, Dublin is where we have work so Dublin is where we'll stay.

The amount we pay in rent would more than cover a mortgage but we just can't save anything significant while paying that amount. So we've resigned ourselves to renting forever.

Samuel T. Cogley

IF Dublin's property market ever sorts itself out a few things will happen

i) Working class people will live in working class areas. Working class people (now retired) living in Malahide and D4 moved there when property prices were artificially low. I say that with no aspersions what so ever, working class and living in a working class area.

ii) Property prices will be high in certain areas and remain high, this is simple supply and demand.

iii) People will start off in something smaller and trade up, as is the norm in the UK.

There is no disputing we need supply urgently, but even now there are affordable houses in Dublin D5 has some great value. There are also options in D12, D9, D11 and D15.

Grayson

Glenster wrote: »

your pricing seems in the high side.

if you're willing to live on the north side you can get a decent 3 bed for 350.

you could swing that on salaries of 35 and 25k, assuming you don't have massive debts.

the deposit is a matter of saving for two/three years.

I'm not sure where you think someone on 35k could save 35k in 3 years.

Gunslinger92

It kinda bugs me people saying oh just move out of Dublin sure. But... I like Dublin. All my friends are here, my unusual hobby is here. I'm from Munster and I couldn't imagine settling there.

I'm aware I could change my mind, of course, but for the moment, no.

Samuel T. Cogley

Gunslinger92 wrote: »

It kinda bugs me people saying oh just move out of Dublin sure. But... I like Dublin. All my friends are here, my unusual hobby is here. I'm from Munster and I couldn't imagine settling there.

I'm aware I could change my mind, of course, but for the moment, no.

Dogging goes on all over...

Grayson

Gunslinger92 wrote: »

It kinda bugs me people saying oh just move out of Dublin sure. But... I like Dublin. All my friends are here, my unusual hobby is here. I'm from Munster and I couldn't imagine settling there.

I'm aware I could change my mind, of course, but for the moment, no.

My family live on the west coast now. They're always saying I should move there. If I moved there I'd be moving to the other side of the country, away from every friend I have. I'd be moving to an area where I'd be unlikely to find a job.
So I'd be unemployed, lonely and bored. But hey, at least the house prices are cheaper.

LirW

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

IF Dublin's property market ever sorts itself out a few things will happen

i) Working class people will live in working class areas. Working class people (now retired) living in Malahide and D4 moved there when property prices were artificially low. I say that with no aspersions what so ever, working class and living in a working class area.

ii) Property prices will be high in certain areas and remain high, this is simple supply and demand.

iii) People will start off in something smaller and trade up, as is the norm in the UK.

There is no disputing we need supply urgently, but even now there are affordable houses in Dublin D5 has some great value. There are also options in D12, D9, D11 and D15.

Good that you brought that up because I genuinely want to know how working class is defined nowadays? I know a lot of people would avoid the postcodes you mentioned. Personally I do not understand that because for example in D11 there are so many parts that are perfectly fine.

We were looking into buying in D11, prices unfortunately overtook what we're willing to spend so we decided to look outside. And believe me, convincing a Dub who grew up in the wonderful entitled parts of D9 to move outside... tough bit of work here.

Have to say though, we're not the classic couple with the routine of education, work, wedding, mortgage, family so getting a mortgage in the first place is a good bit of work.

eeguy

Probably yes. I'm in my late 20s, earn 50k and I spend very little. I'm fortunate that I don't work in a city and can pick up a nice house for about 150k.

LirW

Grayson wrote: »

I'm not sure where you think someone on 35k could save 35k in 3 years.

Easy, move in with your parents or In-laws :pac:


Regarding moving out: I fully understand when people wanna stay in the city, that is your decision and for city life you're always going to pay a premium compared to outside. If you're really looking for buying your options are limited, either waiting for "the right time", putting up with the prices, moving out.
I don't wanna dismiss that there are huge problems on the housing market in the city but we can't change it. It's a take it or leave it really.

PARlance

Gunslinger92 wrote: »

It kinda bugs me people saying oh just move out of Dublin sure. But... I like Dublin. All my friends are here, my unusual hobby is here. I'm from Munster and I couldn't imagine settling there.

I'm aware I could change my mind, of course, but for the moment, no.

Nobody is forcing you to leave Dublin. Just don't expect a house of your own there until you move up the salary scale and settle down with a (good salaried) partner.

At 25, I would say just enjoy Dublin life. You've plenty of time and options. It can kinda bug people when they hear people wanting it all when it's not really realistic.

Samuel T. Cogley

LirW wrote: »

Good that you brought that up because I genuinely want to know how working class is defined nowadays? I know a lot of people would avoid the postcodes you mentioned. Personally I do not understand that because for example in D11 there are so many parts that are perfectly fine.

We were looking into buying in D11, prices unfortunately overtook what we're willing to spend so we decided to look outside. And believe me, convincing a Dub who grew up in the wonderful entitled parts of D9 to move outside... tough bit of work here.

Have to say though, we're not the classic couple with the routine of education, work, wedding, mortgage, family so getting a mortgage in the first place is a good bit of work.

I'd define it as anyone who doesn't have a profession such as Doctor, Lawyer, Accountant, IT Engineer etc. If you fit into the general category like me (semi-skilled), skilled work or trade you're generally working class. Again IMHO.

Caliden

There will be another 'crash' soon enough. The rate of increase is simply not sustainable.

Despite the government saying 'there will be no crash', it reeks of 'DON'T PANIC, JESUS DON'T PANIC' while everything is on fire around them.
Many have vested interests in property so of course they would say that.

Experts have been saying it for the past 5 years that more houses need to be built at a faster rate, however, doing so would cause the crash.

Samuel T. Cogley

Caliden wrote: »

There will be another 'crash' soon enough. The rate of increase is simply not sustainable.

Despite the government saying 'there will be no crash', it reeks of 'DON'T PANIC, JESUS DON'T PANIC' while everything is on fire around them.
Many have vested interests in property so of course they would say that.

Experts have been saying it for the past 5 years that more houses need to be built at a faster rate, however, doing so would cause the crash.

Crashes don't help. No one sells and when you find an old wreck someone has died in you can't get finance. It's aprt of the reason there is so much pent up demand and people with so much maney to plonk down, they started looking and saving in 2011.

LirW

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

I'd define it as anyone who doesn't have a profession such as Doctor, Lawyer, Accountant, IT Engineer etc. If you fit into the general category like me (semi-skilled), skilled work or trade you're generally working class. Again IMHO.

I fully agree, can't wrap my head around though why it's used as a synonym for "Omg all those blokes in D13 are on the dole anyway, who in their right mind would buy there?" Don't wanna dismiss that there are problematic parts in town but there is definitely some snobbery going on.


Also, heard on the radio yesterday that Celtic Tiger prices are expected to be back in 3 years from now. :pac:

Samuel T. Cogley

LirW wrote: »

I fully agree, can't wrap my head around though why it's used as a synonym for "Omg all those blokes in D13 are on the dole anyway, who in their right mind would buy there?" Don't wanna dismiss that there are problematic parts in town but there is definitely some snobbery going on.


Also, heard on the radio yesterday that Celtic Tiger prices are expected to be back in 3 years from now. :pac:

Aye it make me laugh too. Transits in loads of drivways, taxis parked on the street and everyone is suposedly unemployed!

eviltwin

LirW wrote: »

I fully agree, can't wrap my head around though why it's used as a synonym for "Omg all those blokes in D13 are on the dole anyway, who in their right mind would buy there?" Don't wanna dismiss that there are problematic parts in town but there is definitely some snobbery going on.


Also, heard on the radio yesterday that Celtic Tiger prices are expected to be back in 3 years from now. :pac:

Completely agree. I've friends who say they can't afford to buy a house when to be more accurate they can't afford the type of house they want. Another friend recently was forced, in his words, to buy a house in a rural area. He could have afforded Dublin but wanted a four bed detached with a massive garden. Definitely couldn't have bought similar in Dublin but a more modest house wasn't what he wanted. Now he's commuting and hardly ever gets to enjoy the home he bought. Property snobbery still exists.

jester77

BlinkingLights wrote: »

I think I'll probably just emigrate to the continent as soon as I can find a decent job there (I'm actively looking at the moment). The cost of housing here and the quality of what you get are just dire compared to a lot of Northern Europe.

I can rent in quite a few countries on an on-going basis more like a commercial lease - it's a viable prospect for the rest of my days, whereas in Ireland if I can't buy I'm basically condemned to dealing with crumby landlords, bad furniture, bad decor, poor quality, no stability of lease and being able to be turfed out.

Renting here was always seen as some kind of temporary situation for those who were just not buying yet. It's become a permanent thing for many of us now and the structures (legal framework, supply of quality homes, inspection regime, etc etc) are not in place to make it work.

I don't really want to live in the middle of nowhere (where I could afford a house) and I don't want to live in a hovel or share in my 30s in Dublin, Cork etc. So, my options are looking more like Germany now.

I think you will be in for a shock. Any of the big cities in Germany will be more expensive over all in terms of housing than Dublin when you take everything into account. You won't find a suitable family house in Hamburg for under 400k, anything you would find will require a lot of work. You are realistically looking at 500k, plus over here you pay property tax and water, and most of the bills and insurances associated with a house are higher than Ireland.

Gunslinger92

PARlance wrote: »

Nobody is forcing you to leave Dublin. Just don't expect a house of your own there until you move up the salary scale and settle down with a (good salaried) partner.

At 25, I would say just enjoy Dublin life. You've plenty of time and options. It can kinda bug people when they hear people wanting it all when it's not really realistic.

Ah yeah, I know not stressing about it at all, I'm way too young to be thinking about mortgages and such adult-y things

Jodotman

Yep on 35k(5k less than dublin) and recently bought a house for 110k. Moved out of Dublin for a 5k pat decrease but should be back up to in a year or two. Good bonuses as well.

Why I moved out of dublin.

Hour to get to work with buses and luas as work had no parking. Now an 8 min drive to work where I can actually park.

Cost of renting. Paying 500 for a room, kindly f off.

Expensive, pints food and everything is was more expensive.

If I ever want to go to something in the 3 arena a viva I'm only an hour and 15 mins away

LirW

If you feel forced to move out, you're not going to enjoy this lifestyle. If you're not aware of what that means you're going to be miserable. Moving out has to be an option that needs to be carefully considered if you can be happy with it. No point in buying a mansion if you're not happy with the surroundings in general. Some people like that, some people don't. Alternatively, there is a good variety of relatively well priced houses in D15 if you like the area. (I don't, I looked into D15 for a while and realised it's unfortunately not for me because I have estate phobia.)

andekwarhola

It's all very well saying move out of Dublin but there's employment to consider. Not much fun relocating your family, losing your job and having to find work again with most of the jobs in Dublin.

There's still a fair bit of property in and around Dublin for 300k. A lot of people need to understand that they're not the only ones that feel they're entitled to live in XY location which means higher prices there and to recalibrate their expectations in line with their income if they wish to stay in Dublin.

Seanachai

LirW wrote: »

Good that you brought that up because I genuinely want to know how working class is defined nowadays? I know a lot of people would avoid the postcodes you mentioned. Personally I do not understand that because for example in D11 there are so many parts that are perfectly fine.

We were looking into buying in D11, prices unfortunately overtook what we're willing to spend so we decided to look outside. And believe me, convincing a Dub who grew up in the wonderful entitled parts of D9 to move outside... tough bit of work here.

Have to say though, we're not the classic couple with the routine of education, work, wedding, mortgage, family so getting a mortgage in the first place is a good bit of work.

Working class isn't necessarily linked to income, you could be a cash-rich trades-person and still be working class. The difference between working class and middle class is more about education level, financial and social mobility and family connections etc. In relation to people harking for certain areas, I can understand this to a degree. You want the place where you're going to live to be aesthetically pleasing and some people have more of vision of what that entails, whereas others (usually fellas) are a lot more laid back in that regard.

Laois_Man

**Rant Alert**

I watched with a mixture of amusement and frustration over the weekend, the news reports about the daft.ie report saying average house prices have risen 4.3% in the first quarter of 2017.

There's a similar report from MyHome.ie today

They're liars. They're telling outright bare-faced lies. I have been watching the property market like a hawk for the last 9 years. Not in Dublin, but close to Dublin (Meath), where I would like to sell a house I own. And they're telling bare faced lies. Daft.ie and MyHome.ie should not be the bodies that publish these reports. They have a vested interest in driving prices up and getting sellers like me, who are biding their time waiting for these increases, out onto the market. You might suspect that their stats presented as a nationwide average are heavily scewed by the disproportionate increase of prices in Dublin - but no - when you go into their full report and look at the county-by-county breakdown and see their report stating that prices in Meath have increased 61% since the lowest point of the crash, they're absolutely lying!


These reports need to be compiled by a body without this vested interest and who analyse actual sale price data (available on the property prices register), not asking prices data which is all that Daft.ie and Myhome.ie have access to. There's a big difference and they're not even reporting increases in asking prices honestly for that matter.

Seanachai

LirW wrote: »

If you feel forced to move out, you're not going to enjoy this lifestyle. If you're not aware of what that means you're going to be miserable. Moving out has to be an option that needs to be carefully considered if you can be happy with it. No point in buying a mansion if you're not happy with the surroundings in general. Some people like that, some people don't. Alternatively, there is a good variety of relatively well priced houses in D15 if you like the area. (I don't, I looked into D15 for a while and realised it's unfortunately not for me because I have estate phobia.)

'Estate phobia', I must have that too lol, maybe that explains the slightly posh/eccentric people you find in estates, they compromised and moved there, but have never made peace with it. Nothing against people that live in estates but I couldn't do it either, I'd sooner live in a shabby flat in an old terrace than an estate.

slovakchick

Its 3.5

tomwaterford wrote: »

Not a hope....toyed with the idea/dream of building a house.....but would never get a mortgage (well 2.5 times my income wouldn't build a house)



All this is based on the presumption I'll never win the lotto

Mars Bar

Seanachai wrote: »

'Estate phobia', I must have that too lol, maybe that explains the slightly posh/eccentric people you find in estates, they compromised and moved there, but have never made peace with it. Nothing against people that live in estates but I couldn't do it either, I'd sooner live in a shabby flat in an old terrace than an estate.

It's the pokey excuse for a garden in those new estates that kill me

Ardennes1944

Here in Switzerland a decent somewhat modern house will cost more than 1 million, more if you want to be very close to Basel, Zurich etc.

Average wage here is about 90k, but even so, mortgages are passed on throughout generations as they're so huge.

I'm looking to save as much as I can here and then move somewhere cheaper in Europe to buy a house

LirW

Seanachai wrote: »

'Estate phobia', I must have that too lol, maybe that explains the slightly posh/eccentric people you find in estates, they compromised and moved there, but have never made peace with it. Nothing against people that live in estates but I couldn't do it either, I'd sooner live in a shabby flat in an old terrace than an estate.

I come from the continent and in my country estates don't exist. I mean we have newbuilds but the first time I was confronted with estates was when I moved here to Ireland. I personally find them a bit depressing and very american (was the first thing that came to my mind).
Also since I worked in a very similar trade, the building quality of some of them would be topped by Lego.
Just not my cup of tea, wouldn't sleep in the car for 4 nights to put a deposit down. :pac:

Seanachai

Mars Bar wrote: »

It's the pokey excuse for a garden in those new estates that kill me

Needs must, you're talking about pretty condensed living where space is at a premium, I like the older estates in Crumlin and Kimmage though. If you want a decent sized garden it's either find a way to buy a premium level property or move out to the sticks. I'd say the gardens in the new batch of houses being built will be pretty 'compact' too.

jcd5971

Akrasia wrote:

Bought a 3 bed semi in a nice part of Ennis with a nice big south facing garden for 84k last year.

This is common sense, ennis is a lovely town as well, nicer than alot of cities out there( mention this not to insult other places but to highlight it's not cheap because it's located in some hole.)

Having moved around alot of the country in the last 15odd years working, I have to say that alot of people in Dublin are blinded to living away from it, the fact of the matter is that public transport, social scene, leisure and restraunts etc, are common in most big towns in the rest of the country.

People have it in their heads that there are only 2 options live in Dublin or live in some boreen with no roads or civilisation in the rural mountains of kerry or leitrim (overstating a stereotype they are both lovely counties) and this idea is what's driving prices so high.

pilly

The people I feel for most at the moment are single people who may intend to stay single for a while yet.

Very few options apart from houseshares

Seanachai

LirW wrote: »

I come from the continent and in my country estates don't exist. I mean we have newbuilds but the first time I was confronted with estates was when I moved here to Ireland. I personally find them a bit depressing and very american (was the first thing that came to my mind).
Also since I worked in a very similar trade, the building quality of some of them would be topped by Lego.
Just not my cup of tea, wouldn't sleep in the car for 4 nights to put a deposit down. :pac:

There are certain urban areas in Ireland that do look like suburban America, more so when the sun is shining . Even some rural clusters of housing have an American look, as a lot of the builders in the 70's & 80's took the designs straight out of books like 'bungalow bliss'. The laws in relation to to planning are a lot stricter in the UK and on the continent, rural dwellers tend to live in villages with a historic look. You could drive down a leafy lane here and think you're in Seattle.

Seanachai

pilly wrote: »

The people I feel for most at the moment are single people who may intend to stay single for a while yet.

Very few options apart from houseshares

At least we have our 'crying chairs'

languagenerd

Mid-20s, not great wages atm, working in a v Dublin-centric career area... So unless I accidentally meet a partner who turns out to be on a high salary, I can't imagine ever getting a mortgage.

jcd5971 wrote: »

People have it in their heads that there are only 2 options live in Dublin or live in some boreen with no roads or civilisation in the rural mountains of kerry or leitrim (overstating a stereotype they are both lovely counties) and this idea is what's driving prices so high.

But there are many sectors where the vast majority of the jobs are in Dublin. Not much point moving to another town or city just to be unemployed...

Glenster

Grayson wrote: »

I'm not sure where you think someone on 35k could save 35k in 3 years.

35K and 25K = 60K

net income of approx. 4300.

rent here http://www.daft.ie/dublin/apartments-for-rent/swords/holywell-way-swords-dublin-1726932/

2000 discretionary for the month, save a grand a month. 1K*36=36K

or don't do that and rent forever.....