Ex refusing to remove name from deeds

AMEOC · 27-01-2020 9:02pm #1

Post divorce by consent- ex hubbie is in family home - basically bank said if i moved out & he moved in & pd mortgage for 6 months they would give him mortgage - so i signed divorce by consent - hindsight etc etc. He is refusing to remove my name now even though he has remarried & has another child

- who has entitlement to house?
- i still pay life cover for both of us as he refuses and I’m terrified that i would be liable for debt if he dies
- can i make a new will and leave my interest in house to say my sister

Awful situation - any advices welcome

Atlantic Dawn · 27-01-2020 9:05pm

Was your name originally on the mortgage? Highly unlikely if there is a mortgage outstanding and your name is on it that the bank will agree to remove your name from it.

AMEOC · 27-01-2020 9:07pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Was your name originally on the mortgage? Highly unlikely if there is a mortgage outstanding and your name is on it that the bank will agree to remove your name from it.

Yes my name was on it - we agreed that he & now new wife would apply in their names & therefore remove mine he is refusing to do this now.
And i mean point blank refusing ðŸ™„

studdlymurphy · 27-01-2020 9:11pm

Tell him you want to sell the house then

AMEOC · 27-01-2020 9:13pm

studdlymurphy wrote: »

Tell him you want to sell the house then

I did - yesterday- went ballistic!! He has refused to speak about it or to me for 3 years! Do u think i could force a sale as such?

studdlymurphy · 27-01-2020 9:52pm

Speak to a solicitor in sure there is a way, even just to push him into removing your name as thats what you are after

Victor · 28-01-2020 1:06am

It may be important what the divorce agreement says.

As mentioned, you really nee to talk to a solicitor.

randomrb · 28-01-2020 10:45am

If the divorce order was properly ruled this issue would have had to been adressed. They would very seldom not deal with the issue of a jointly owned family home.

AMEOC · 28-01-2020 11:52am

randomrb wrote: »

If the divorce order was properly ruled this issue would have had to been adressed. They would very seldom not deal with the issue of a jointly owned family home.

Prob is - stupidly i trusted him. He was in contact with bank & solicitor and had mortgage approval. So i signed divorce by consent - the divorce says he has to do all that is reasonably possible to remove my name. He now says it is unreasonable that he has to pay costs associated with this & he has stopped the talks with bank etc.
All well planned it seems!!

golfball37 · 28-01-2020 11:55am

AMEOC wrote: »

Prob is - stupidly i trusted him. He was in contact with bank & solicitor and had mortgage approval. So i signed divorce by consent - the divorce says he has to do all that is reasonably possible to remove my name. He now says it is unreasonable that he has to pay costs associated with this & he has stopped the talks with bank etc.
All well planned it seems!!

Simple you now want to sell, if he doesn't want that you get half the sale price from him- at market value. You have nothing to feel guilty about

Marcusm · 28-01-2020 12:27pm

randomrb wrote: »

If the divorce order was properly ruled this issue would have had to been adressed. They would very seldom not deal with the issue of a jointly owned family home.

THe divorce order is not capable of dealing with the rights of the existing lender. It can only deal with the rights between the erstwhile spouses. The solicitors should have included obligations to make all reasonable efforts to refinance to give practical effect to the imperfect court order.

randomrb · 28-01-2020 12:37pm

AMEOC wrote: »

Prob is - stupidly i trusted him. He was in contact with bank & solicitor and had mortgage approval. So i signed divorce by consent - the divorce says he has to do all that is reasonably possible to remove my name. He now says it is unreasonable that he has to pay costs associated with this & he has stopped the talks with bank etc.
All well planned it seems!!

Without getting into too much detail does that mean that he was given full ownership of the house in the divorce?

This is where I was confused I understand the court can't dictate what the lender can do but you seem confused as to who has an interest in the house, that should be very clear from the divorce terms

AMEOC · 28-01-2020 12:52pm

randomrb wrote: »

Without getting into too much detail does that mean that he was given full ownership of the house in the divorce?

This is where I was confused I understand the court can't dictate what the lender can do but you seem confused as to who has an interest in the house, that should be very clear from the divorce terms

Tbh i just wanted out - told him he could have the house (it had been going on 6yrs at that stage) - he would take full ownership of debt.

This is what was presented in divorce court - judge was happy that under oath he said he would take over the debt etc .

In meantime - if he were to die or i was to who has entitlement to the house? Messy i know ðŸ™„
I know i will have to go legal route to do this now - v v frustrating

randomrb · 28-01-2020 1:10pm

That makes more sense, the issue you have here is that in effect he is not complying with the terms of the divorce.

If there is a deal from the bank you can bring it before a judge and say that he is refusing to engage and comply with the divorce terms as he won't accept this reasonable deal.

AMEOC · 28-01-2020 1:25pm

randomrb wrote: »

That makes more sense, the issue you have here is that in effect he is not complying with the terms of the divorce.

If there is a deal from the bank you can bring it before a judge and say that he is refusing to engage and comply with the divorce terms as he won't accept this reasonable deal.

I think the prob is the divorce doc is a bit vague - just says he has to do all that is within reason to take my name off - he maintains now it is unreasonable for him to have to pay the legal costs associated with same, tho at time of divorce he was aware of this.

My worry is in the meantime if something were to happen either of us - what happens house? He prev. Had a serious illness so naturally it is on my mind.

randomrb · 28-01-2020 1:32pm

AMEOC wrote: »

I think the prob is the divorce doc is a bit vague - just says he has to do all that is within reason to take my name off - he maintains now it is unreasonable for him to have to pay the legal costs associated with same, tho at time of divorce he was aware of this.

My worry is in the meantime if something were to happen either of us - what happens house? He prev. Had a serious illness so naturally it is on my mind.

Is the property still in joint names?

AMEOC · 28-01-2020 1:56pm

randomrb wrote: »

Is the property still in joint names?

Yes - thats the prob. He is refusing to go thro with the mortgage tho he has remarried & has new baby. Basically he doesn’t want to spend the legal fees!! Tho he has the house he wants me to split costs - latest on it.

NSAman · 28-01-2020 1:58pm

AMEOC wrote: »

Yes - thats the prob. He is refusing to go thro with the mortgage tho he has remarried & has new baby. Basically he doesn’t want to spend the legal fees!! Tho he has the house he wants me to split costs - latest on it.

Errr... no and we are selling is the answer!

Seriously. it is time for the legal route.

seamus · 28-01-2020 2:07pm

For the sake of the hassle and headache, I'd move this forward by offering to cover half of the stamp duty for this change.

That's the biggest cost of taking over the mortgage, and since taking your name off the deeds is about protecting your interests as much as his, it's a fair deal.

If you aren't getting your own legal representation for this (though you should), then it would also be reasonable for you to cover half of them too.

It's either spend a couple of grand now or spend the next decade dealing with this rubbish.

All of the questions about whether you can threaten to sell, what would happen if you die, are dependent on how the deed was registered and should be answered by a solicitor.

Short answer; If you're registered as joint tenants, then you can't sell without him and if you die the house is entirely his. If you're tenants in common then you can threaten to sell (though nobody will buy it), and if you die then your half can go to anyone else. If you were married when you bought then your solicitor would have advised you to register as joint tenants, but you will have to check with them.

TuringBot47 · 28-01-2020 2:22pm

AMEOC wrote: »

- i still pay life cover for both of us as he refuses and I’m terrified that i would be liable for debt if he dies

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but if you are divorced than you cannot take out life cover on him I'd imagine.
You have no "insurable interest" anymore ?

Even if he did die, then the money might go to his partner or next in his will. So they might decide not to pay off the mortgage.

But I imagine there's a difference between name on the deeds and name on the mortgage.
Can you make an appointment with the bank and ask them what the process is, post divorce to be removed from the mortgage ?
That bit probably doesn't involve legal fees.

Removing your name from the deed probably does.

(Open to correction on all these points, not in the legal sector)

AMEOC · 28-01-2020 2:25pm

seamus wrote: »

For the sake of the hassle and headache, I'd move this forward by offering to cover half of the stamp duty for this change.

That's the biggest cost of taking over the mortgage, and since taking your name off the deeds is about protecting your interests as much as his, it's a fair deal.

If you aren't getting your own legal representation for this (though you should), then it would also be reasonable for you to cover half of them too.

It's either spend a couple of grand now or spend the next decade dealing with this rubbish.

All of the questions about whether you can threaten to sell, what would happen if you die, are dependent on how the deed was registered and should be answered by a solicitor.

Short answer; If you're registered as joint tenants, then you can't sell without him and if you die the house is entirely his. If you're tenants in common then you can threaten to sell (though nobody will buy it), and if you die then your half can go to anyone else. If you were married when you bought then your solicitor would have advised you to register as joint tenants, but you will have to check with them.

I get ur point - but with my daughter i agreed to move out of the family home - with all of this agreed in mediation/ via emails & with bank discussions. I dont agree its a fair deal - i have nothing and have to pull together another deposit and i dont see why i should have to pay any costs

If he died who is entitled to the house?
Can i will my ‘half’ to someone?

AMEOC · 28-01-2020 2:27pm

TuringBot47 wrote: »

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but if you are divorced than you cannot take out life cover on him I'd imagine.
You have no "insurable interest" anymore ?

Even if he did die, then the money might go to his partner or next in his will. So they might decide not to pay off the mortgage.

But I imagine there's a difference between name on the deeds and name on the mortgage.
Can you make an appointment with the bank and ask them what the process is, post divorce to be removed from the mortgage ?
That bit probably doesn't involve legal fees.

Removing your name from the deed probably does.

(Open to correction on all these points, not in the legal sector)

The life policy is in place since mortgage began - i just happen to pay it and afraid to take him off in case something happens

cnocbui · 28-01-2020 2:32pm

Tell him to either pay you half the market value of the house, or it goes up for sale. If you are a part owner, you can force the property to be sold.

AMEOC · 28-01-2020 2:59pm

cnocbui wrote: »

Tell him to either pay you half the market value of the house, or it goes up for sale. If you are a part owner, you can force the property to be sold.

The whole thing is - i would have gladly signed it all over to him years ago now I’m beginning to think why should i!

Victor · 28-01-2020 3:15pm

TuringBot47 wrote: »

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but if you are divorced than you cannot take out life cover on him I'd imagine.
You have no "insurable interest" anymore ?

People often interpret insurable interest too narrowly. The OP has an insurable interest insofar as they have a potential large liability if the ex-husband dies.

John Hutton · 28-01-2020 3:15pm

Is he paying the mortgage?

Are you named on the mortgage or just the deeds?

I would be worried that he hasn't been paying it at all. He could go bankrupt and you'd be stuck with all the debt.

AMEOC · 28-01-2020 3:20pm

John Hutton wrote: »

Is he paying the mortgage?

Are you named on the mortgage or just the deeds?

I would be worried that he hasn't been paying it at all. He could go bankrupt and you'd be stuck with all the debt.

Yes he is - I’ve checked that

Name on both.

AMEOC · 28-01-2020 3:21pm

Victor wrote: »

People often interpret insurable interest too narrowly. The OP has an insurable interest insofar as they have a potential large liability if the ex-husband dies.

But if he does die - who gets the balance of monies from the policy? Bloody unnecessarily messy

seamus · 28-01-2020 3:46pm

AMEOC wrote: »

I get ur point - but with my daughter i agreed to move out of the family home - with all of this agreed in mediation/ via emails & with bank discussions. I dont agree its a fair deal - i have nothing and have to pull together another deposit and i dont see why i should have to pay any costs

You are as stuck as he is. If you try to pull together another deposit to buy something, you won't be able to buy so long as your name is on this house.

You can pay once to make this go away now, or you can pay five times more to make it go away in a decade. That's the reality, they're the options available to you. If you try to provoke him into giving up, it sounds more likely that he's going to get a solicitor, and then it's going to cost you more to deal with.

If he's dug his heels in, this is going nowhere without legal assistance, and that's going to cost - time, money and your mental health.

If he died who is entitled to the house?
Can i will my ‘half’ to someone?

That depends on whether the property was bought as joint tenants or not.
If you're joint tenants (you probably are), then you cannot will your half to anyone. It becomes his automatically and without challenge, on your death.
If he dies, it becames yours without challenge, though chances are his wife and child would be able to win the right to remain the house rent-free indefinitely.

Pay to make it go away. It'll be worth it in the long run.

AMEOC · 28-01-2020 4:51pm

seamus wrote: »

You are as stuck as he is. If you try to pull together another deposit to buy something, you won't be able to buy so long as your name is on this house.

You can pay once to make this go away now, or you can pay five times more to make it go away in a decade. That's the reality, they're the options available to you. If you try to provoke him into giving up, it sounds more likely that he's going to get a solicitor, and then it's going to cost you more to deal with.

If he's dug his heels in, this is going nowhere without legal assistance, and that's going to cost - time, money and your mental health.

That depends on whether the property was bought as joint tenants or not.
If you're joint tenants (you probably are), then you cannot will your half to anyone. It becomes his automatically and without challenge, on your death.
If he dies, it becames yours without challenge, though chances are his wife and child would be able to win the right to remain the house rent-free indefinitely.

Pay to make it go away. It'll be worth it in the long run.

Thank you - happy monday to me eh

Markcheese · 28-01-2020 5:12pm

Do you have a solicitor who you get on with and trust ? ,Get some proper legal advice on what your options actually are ,
If you can go down the legal route ,and force a sale then let your ex know that if this happens you will be looking for half of whats left over after paying the bank ..
If necessary send him this via solicitors letter ... And also let him know that all you want is out .. so if he proceeds promptly ,that your happy to just be off the mortgage ..

ittakestwo · 28-01-2020 5:43pm

Is there any equity in the house (Current value - amount left on mortgage)? If there is would you not want half the equity to get your name of the title? Or at least half the equity at the time you moved out of the house.

randomrb · 28-01-2020 5:58pm

Markcheese wrote: »

Do you have a solicitor who you get on with and trust ? ,Get some proper legal advice on what your options actually are ,
If you can go down the legal route ,and force a sale then let your ex know that if this happens you will be looking for half of whats left over after paying the bank ..
If necessary send him this via solicitors letter ... And also let him know that all you want is out .. so if he proceeds promptly ,that your happy to just be off the mortgage ..

You missed the part where she said that he got the house in the divorce.

If he got the house, he is the one who has to do the paperwork. Worst case scenario he dies and you end up with the house through joint ownership because he didn't take you off the deeds. Unless the house is negative equity don't pay for something that benefits him.

In saying all that you need to get legal advice on this

AMEOC · 28-01-2020 6:08pm

randomrb wrote: »

You missed the part where she said that he got the house in the divorce.

If he got the house, he is the one who has to do the paperwork. Worst case scenario he dies and you end up with the house through joint ownership because he didn't take you off the deeds. Unless the house is negative equity don't pay for something that benefits him.

In saying all that you need to get legal advice on this

I agreed to sign divorce by consent & that he could have house in its entirety if he took my name off deeds - at his expense. So obv he said yes and began talks with bank & solicitors, got the house - and now to me he should follow through with no cost to me - look i get all points of view - took 6 yrs to get him to mediation & 7 to get divorced - just want closure

BronsonTB · 28-01-2020 6:13pm

First, get a new solicitor!!
This should have been sorted before any divorce.

Now you would need to take him back to court in order to ask judge to sell the house. (Very long expensive road)

What bank is the mortgage with? (Can make a big difference if they will allow a transfer of equity application)

AMEOC · 28-01-2020 6:21pm

BronsonTB wrote: »

First, get a new solicitor!!
This should have been sorted before any divorce.

Now you would need to take him back to court in order to ask judge to sell the house. (Very long expensive road)

What bank is the mortgage with? (Can make a big difference if they will allow a transfer of equity application)

Mortgage is with ulster bank - we didnt involve solicitors with divorce as everything else was sorted - access etc. But we had house agreement in place and had everything in place just to be signed off when divorced etc -

Victor · 28-01-2020 7:12pm

AMEOC wrote: »

But if he does die - who gets the balance of monies from the policy?

That will depend on how the policy is worded as to whether there is a balance and who would benefit from that balance.

Bloody unnecessarily messy

Agreed.

Marcusm · 28-01-2020 7:24pm

AMEOC wrote: »

I get ur point - but with my daughter i agreed to move out of the family home - with all of this agreed in mediation/ via emails & with bank discussions. I dont agree its a fair deal - i have nothing and have to pull together another deposit and i dont see why i should have to pay any costs

If he died who is entitled to the house?
Can i will my ‘half’ to someone?

The legal costs of remortgaging and transferring title would have been entirely foreseeable (and by inference, reasonable) at the time of the divorce decree. He is simply not abiding by it. Ask your solicitor as to what action needs to be taken to enforce the order.

You can transfer your interest in the house in theory but it does not release you from the mortgage obligation. While it might be attractive to suggest that, I think it would not be acting in your best interest as it would frustrate efforts for a clean break from the house/debt.

Victor · 28-01-2020 7:33pm

Oh, if money is an issue www.flac.ie may be useful.

AMEOC · 28-01-2020 10:03pm

Marcusm wrote: »

The legal costs of remortgaging and transferring title would have been entirely foreseeable (and by inference, reasonable) at the time of the divorce decree. He is simply not abiding by it. Ask your solicitor as to what action needs to be taken to enforce the order.

You can transfer your interest in the house in theory but it does not release you from the mortgage obligation. While it might be attractive to suggest that, I think it would not be acting in your best interest as it would frustrate efforts for a clean break from the house/debt.

Totally agree - absolutely was foreseeable!!

AMEOC · 28-01-2020 10:04pm

Victor wrote: »

That will depend on how the policy is worded as to whether there is a balance an who would benefit from that balance.

Agreed.

God i hope i have all that stuff too - its not a reducing policy so would def be monies left

BronsonTB · 29-01-2020 11:28am

Check & see will your bank allow a transfer of equity application.
You need to talk to a good solicitor that is familiar with family law to guide you on the next course of action.

I feel your pain but once my ex starting reneging on any verbal agreement, I went through solicitor/court.
Long tuff road but out the other side now.

AMEOC · 29-01-2020 11:57am

BronsonTB wrote: »

Check & see will your bank allow a transfer of equity application.
You need to talk to a good solicitor that is familiar with family law to guide you on the next course of action.

I feel your pain but once my ex starting reneging on any verbal agreement, I went through solicitor/court.
Long tuff road but out the other side now.

Ok - that’s interesting! Thanks so much

stargazer 68 · 29-01-2020 12:39pm

AMEOC wrote: »

Mortgage is with ulster bank - we didnt involve solicitors with divorce as everything else was sorted - access etc. But we had house agreement in place and had everything in place just to be signed off when divorced etc -

That agreement should have been recorded in the court papers so perhaps contact the court office (they are very helpful) and ask them. I'm sure when I got my divorce (no Solicitor either) the agreements we made between us were recorded and she said I could go back if they weren't adhered to.

AMEOC · 29-01-2020 1:45pm

Dovies wrote: »

That agreement should have been recorded in the court papers so perhaps contact the court office (they are very helpful) and ask them. I'm sure when I got my divorce (no Solicitor either) the agreements we made between us were recorded and she said I could go back if they weren't adhered to.

Interesting!! Will do. - i have all docs/ decree from court but didnt know about that. Thanks v much

Ex refusing to remove name from deeds

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