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Ex refusing to remove name from deeds

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  • 27-01-2020 9:02pm
    #1
    AMEOC
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭


    Post divorce by consent- ex hubbie is in family home - basically bank said if i moved out & he moved in & pd mortgage for 6 months they would give him mortgage - so i signed divorce by consent - hindsight etc etc. He is refusing to remove my name now even though he has remarried & has another child

    - who has entitlement to house?
    - i still pay life cover for both of us as he refuses and I’m terrified that i would be liable for debt if he dies
    - can i make a new will and leave my interest in house to say my sister

    Awful situation - any advices welcome


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    #2
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,827 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Was your name originally on the mortgage? Highly unlikely if there is a mortgage outstanding and your name is on it that the bank will agree to remove your name from it.


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    #3
    AMEOC
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭AMEOC


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    Was your name originally on the mortgage? Highly unlikely if there is a mortgage outstanding and your name is on it that the bank will agree to remove your name from it.

    Yes my name was on it - we agreed that he & now new wife would apply in their names & therefore remove mine he is refusing to do this now.
    And i mean point blank refusing 🙄


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    #4
    studdlymurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭studdlymurphy


    Tell him you want to sell the house then


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    #5
    AMEOC
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭AMEOC


    studdlymurphy wrote: »
    Tell him you want to sell the house then

    I did - yesterday- went ballistic!! He has refused to speak about it or to me for 3 years! Do u think i could force a sale as such?


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    #6
    studdlymurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭studdlymurphy


    Speak to a solicitor in sure there is a way, even just to push him into removing your name as thats what you are after


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    #7
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,335 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    It may be important what the divorce agreement says.

    As mentioned, you really nee to talk to a solicitor.


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    #8
    randomrb
    Registered Users Posts: 351 ✭✭randomrb


    If the divorce order was properly ruled this issue would have had to been adressed. They would very seldom not deal with the issue of a jointly owned family home.


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    #9
    AMEOC
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭AMEOC


    randomrb wrote: »
    If the divorce order was properly ruled this issue would have had to been adressed. They would very seldom not deal with the issue of a jointly owned family home.


    Prob is - stupidly i trusted him. He was in contact with bank & solicitor and had mortgage approval. So i signed divorce by consent - the divorce says he has to do all that is reasonably possible to remove my name. He now says it is unreasonable that he has to pay costs associated with this & he has stopped the talks with bank etc.
    All well planned it seems!!


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    #10
    golfball37
    Registered Users Posts: 4,585 ✭✭✭golfball37


    AMEOC wrote: »
    Prob is - stupidly i trusted him. He was in contact with bank & solicitor and had mortgage approval. So i signed divorce by consent - the divorce says he has to do all that is reasonably possible to remove my name. He now says it is unreasonable that he has to pay costs associated with this & he has stopped the talks with bank etc.
    All well planned it seems!!

    Simple you now want to sell, if he doesn't want that you get half the sale price from him- at market value. You have nothing to feel guilty about


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    #11
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,236 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    randomrb wrote: »
    If the divorce order was properly ruled this issue would have had to been adressed. They would very seldom not deal with the issue of a jointly owned family home.

    THe divorce order is not capable of dealing with the rights of the existing lender. It can only deal with the rights between the erstwhile spouses. The solicitors should have included obligations to make all reasonable efforts to refinance to give practical effect to the imperfect court order.


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    #12
    randomrb
    Registered Users Posts: 351 ✭✭randomrb


    AMEOC wrote: »
    Prob is - stupidly i trusted him. He was in contact with bank & solicitor and had mortgage approval. So i signed divorce by consent - the divorce says he has to do all that is reasonably possible to remove my name. He now says it is unreasonable that he has to pay costs associated with this & he has stopped the talks with bank etc.
    All well planned it seems!!

    Without getting into too much detail does that mean that he was given full ownership of the house in the divorce?

    This is where I was confused I understand the court can't dictate what the lender can do but you seem confused as to who has an interest in the house, that should be very clear from the divorce terms


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    #13
    AMEOC
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭AMEOC


    randomrb wrote: »
    Without getting into too much detail does that mean that he was given full ownership of the house in the divorce?

    This is where I was confused I understand the court can't dictate what the lender can do but you seem confused as to who has an interest in the house, that should be very clear from the divorce terms


    Tbh i just wanted out - told him he could have the house (it had been going on 6yrs at that stage) - he would take full ownership of debt.

    This is what was presented in divorce court - judge was happy that under oath he said he would take over the debt etc .

    In meantime - if he were to die or i was to who has entitlement to the house? Messy i know 🙄
    I know i will have to go legal route to do this now - v v frustrating


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    #14
    randomrb
    Registered Users Posts: 351 ✭✭randomrb


    That makes more sense, the issue you have here is that in effect he is not complying with the terms of the divorce.

    If there is a deal from the bank you can bring it before a judge and say that he is refusing to engage and comply with the divorce terms as he won't accept this reasonable deal.


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    #15
    AMEOC
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭AMEOC


    randomrb wrote: »
    That makes more sense, the issue you have here is that in effect he is not complying with the terms of the divorce.

    If there is a deal from the bank you can bring it before a judge and say that he is refusing to engage and comply with the divorce terms as he won't accept this reasonable deal.



    I think the prob is the divorce doc is a bit vague - just says he has to do all that is within reason to take my name off - he maintains now it is unreasonable for him to have to pay the legal costs associated with same, tho at time of divorce he was aware of this.

    My worry is in the meantime if something were to happen either of us - what happens house? He prev. Had a serious illness so naturally it is on my mind.


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    #16
    randomrb
    Registered Users Posts: 351 ✭✭randomrb


    AMEOC wrote: »
    I think the prob is the divorce doc is a bit vague - just says he has to do all that is within reason to take my name off - he maintains now it is unreasonable for him to have to pay the legal costs associated with same, tho at time of divorce he was aware of this.

    My worry is in the meantime if something were to happen either of us - what happens house? He prev. Had a serious illness so naturally it is on my mind.

    Is the property still in joint names?


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    #17
    AMEOC
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭AMEOC


    randomrb wrote: »
    Is the property still in joint names?

    Yes - thats the prob. He is refusing to go thro with the mortgage tho he has remarried & has new baby. Basically he doesn’t want to spend the legal fees!! Tho he has the house he wants me to split costs - latest on it.


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    #18
    NSAman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,395 ✭✭✭NSAman


    AMEOC wrote: »
    Yes - thats the prob. He is refusing to go thro with the mortgage tho he has remarried & has new baby. Basically he doesn’t want to spend the legal fees!! Tho he has the house he wants me to split costs - latest on it.

    Errr... no and we are selling is the answer!

    Seriously. it is time for the legal route.


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    #19
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    For the sake of the hassle and headache, I'd move this forward by offering to cover half of the stamp duty for this change.

    That's the biggest cost of taking over the mortgage, and since taking your name off the deeds is about protecting your interests as much as his, it's a fair deal.

    If you aren't getting your own legal representation for this (though you should), then it would also be reasonable for you to cover half of them too.

    It's either spend a couple of grand now or spend the next decade dealing with this rubbish.

    All of the questions about whether you can threaten to sell, what would happen if you die, are dependent on how the deed was registered and should be answered by a solicitor.

    Short answer; If you're registered as joint tenants, then you can't sell without him and if you die the house is entirely his. If you're tenants in common then you can threaten to sell (though nobody will buy it), and if you die then your half can go to anyone else. If you were married when you bought then your solicitor would have advised you to register as joint tenants, but you will have to check with them.


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    #20
    TuringBot47
    Registered Users Posts: 991 ✭✭✭TuringBot47


    AMEOC wrote: »
    - i still pay life cover for both of us as he refuses and I’m terrified that i would be liable for debt if he dies

    Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but if you are divorced than you cannot take out life cover on him I'd imagine.
    You have no "insurable interest" anymore ?

    Even if he did die, then the money might go to his partner or next in his will. So they might decide not to pay off the mortgage.


    But I imagine there's a difference between name on the deeds and name on the mortgage.
    Can you make an appointment with the bank and ask them what the process is, post divorce to be removed from the mortgage ?
    That bit probably doesn't involve legal fees.

    Removing your name from the deed probably does.

    (Open to correction on all these points, not in the legal sector)


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    #21
    AMEOC
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭AMEOC


    seamus wrote: »
    For the sake of the hassle and headache, I'd move this forward by offering to cover half of the stamp duty for this change.

    That's the biggest cost of taking over the mortgage, and since taking your name off the deeds is about protecting your interests as much as his, it's a fair deal.

    If you aren't getting your own legal representation for this (though you should), then it would also be reasonable for you to cover half of them too.

    It's either spend a couple of grand now or spend the next decade dealing with this rubbish.

    All of the questions about whether you can threaten to sell, what would happen if you die, are dependent on how the deed was registered and should be answered by a solicitor.

    Short answer; If you're registered as joint tenants, then you can't sell without him and if you die the house is entirely his. If you're tenants in common then you can threaten to sell (though nobody will buy it), and if you die then your half can go to anyone else. If you were married when you bought then your solicitor would have advised you to register as joint tenants, but you will have to check with them.


    I get ur point - but with my daughter i agreed to move out of the family home - with all of this agreed in mediation/ via emails & with bank discussions. I dont agree its a fair deal - i have nothing and have to pull together another deposit and i dont see why i should have to pay any costs

    If he died who is entitled to the house?
    Can i will my ‘half’ to someone?


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    #22
    AMEOC
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭AMEOC


    TuringBot47 wrote: »
    Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but if you are divorced than you cannot take out life cover on him I'd imagine.
    You have no "insurable interest" anymore ?

    Even if he did die, then the money might go to his partner or next in his will. So they might decide not to pay off the mortgage.


    But I imagine there's a difference between name on the deeds and name on the mortgage.
    Can you make an appointment with the bank and ask them what the process is, post divorce to be removed from the mortgage ?
    That bit probably doesn't involve legal fees.

    Removing your name from the deed probably does.

    (Open to correction on all these points, not in the legal sector)

    The life policy is in place since mortgage began - i just happen to pay it and afraid to take him off in case something happens


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    #23
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,955 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Tell him to either pay you half the market value of the house, or it goes up for sale. If you are a part owner, you can force the property to be sold.


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    #24
    AMEOC
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭AMEOC


    cnocbui wrote: »
    Tell him to either pay you half the market value of the house, or it goes up for sale. If you are a part owner, you can force the property to be sold.


    The whole thing is - i would have gladly signed it all over to him years ago now I’m beginning to think why should i!


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    #25
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,335 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    TuringBot47 wrote: »
    Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but if you are divorced than you cannot take out life cover on him I'd imagine.
    You have no "insurable interest" anymore ?

    People often interpret insurable interest too narrowly. The OP has an insurable interest insofar as they have a potential large liability if the ex-husband dies.


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    #26
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    Is he paying the mortgage?

    Are you named on the mortgage or just the deeds?

    I would be worried that he hasn't been paying it at all. He could go bankrupt and you'd be stuck with all the debt.


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    #27
    AMEOC
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭AMEOC


    John Hutton wrote: »
    Is he paying the mortgage?

    Are you named on the mortgage or just the deeds?

    I would be worried that he hasn't been paying it at all. He could go bankrupt and you'd be stuck with all the debt.



    Yes he is - I’ve checked that

    Name on both.


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    #28
    AMEOC
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭AMEOC


    Victor wrote: »
    People often interpret insurable interest too narrowly. The OP has an insurable interest insofar as they have a potential large liability if the ex-husband dies.


    But if he does die - who gets the balance of monies from the policy? Bloody unnecessarily messy


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    #29
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    AMEOC wrote: »
    I get ur point - but with my daughter i agreed to move out of the family home - with all of this agreed in mediation/ via emails & with bank discussions. I dont agree its a fair deal - i have nothing and have to pull together another deposit and i dont see why i should have to pay any costs
    You are as stuck as he is. If you try to pull together another deposit to buy something, you won't be able to buy so long as your name is on this house.

    You can pay once to make this go away now, or you can pay five times more to make it go away in a decade. That's the reality, they're the options available to you. If you try to provoke him into giving up, it sounds more likely that he's going to get a solicitor, and then it's going to cost you more to deal with.

    If he's dug his heels in, this is going nowhere without legal assistance, and that's going to cost - time, money and your mental health.
    If he died who is entitled to the house?
    Can i will my ‘half’ to someone?
    That depends on whether the property was bought as joint tenants or not.
    If you're joint tenants (you probably are), then you cannot will your half to anyone. It becomes his automatically and without challenge, on your death.
    If he dies, it becames yours without challenge, though chances are his wife and child would be able to win the right to remain the house rent-free indefinitely.

    Pay to make it go away. It'll be worth it in the long run.


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    #30
    AMEOC
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭AMEOC


    seamus wrote: »
    You are as stuck as he is. If you try to pull together another deposit to buy something, you won't be able to buy so long as your name is on this house.

    You can pay once to make this go away now, or you can pay five times more to make it go away in a decade. That's the reality, they're the options available to you. If you try to provoke him into giving up, it sounds more likely that he's going to get a solicitor, and then it's going to cost you more to deal with.

    If he's dug his heels in, this is going nowhere without legal assistance, and that's going to cost - time, money and your mental health.

    That depends on whether the property was bought as joint tenants or not.
    If you're joint tenants (you probably are), then you cannot will your half to anyone. It becomes his automatically and without challenge, on your death.
    If he dies, it becames yours without challenge, though chances are his wife and child would be able to win the right to remain the house rent-free indefinitely.

    Pay to make it go away. It'll be worth it in the long run.

    Thank you - happy monday to me eh


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    #31
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,435 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Do you have a solicitor who you get on with and trust ? ,Get some proper legal advice on what your options actually are ,
    If you can go down the legal route ,and force a sale then let your ex know that if this happens you will be looking for half of whats left over after paying the bank ..
    If necessary send him this via solicitors letter ... And also let him know that all you want is out .. so if he proceeds promptly ,that your happy to just be off the mortgage ..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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