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Messy housemate - wrecking my head!!

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    #32
    Terri26
    Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭Terri26


    StormWarrior wrote: »
    I think this is much worse than the cleaning issue, I wouldn't tolerate this. Just because he rents a room from you does not give him any rights to have people over, especially without asking. In my first year of university I was a lodger in someone's house, and they told me at the start I wouldn't be allowed any friends over, and I thought it was fair enough. If he asked first and made sure it didn't inconvenience you it would be one thing, but what he is doing here is outrageous. Honestly, if I was you, as soon as he did the above I would have just thrown him out, your sanity is more important than a few euros!


    He has every right to have a friend over without asking! He is not living with his parents where he has to ask permission. You can't except someone to keep to their room when they are renting from you. he probably assumes it is like he is renting with you rather than from you. I lived for a year in a situation like this and never will again! Excepting to ask permission is a joke although I would mention it out of manners!! In future say these rules to potential tenants then all will be happy.


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    #33
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    StormWarrior wrote: »
    ^I don't agree with this at all.

    Bullshit.

    The ownership of the house shouldn't figure in the equation. A tenancy exists and as far as that goes, the tenant should be equal to the other tenant, even if the other tenant happens to own the house.

    If the owners wants to enforce arbitrary rules based on their ownership of the house, the tenant should be informed of the situation up-front. Personally, I tended to avoid house-shares with a house owner because I found that the Celtic Tiger situation was often in effect: home-owner need help with mortgage but deep-down doesn't want to share home. Not saying this is necessarily the case with OP, obviously.

    As for the cleaning up, the OP has every right to expect the tenant to clean up after themselves without having it in contract - it's basic manners.


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    #34
    mickoneill30
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭mickoneill30


    As the lease is due to be renewed how about bumping it up €50 a month and getting a cleaner in so they can do a huge clean once or twice a month.
    It won't stop the niggly stuff like the grill but the bathroom problem would be sorted.
    stovelid wrote: »
    Bullshit.

    The ownership of the house shouldn't figure in the equation. A tenancy exists and as far as that goes, the tenant should be equal to the other tenant, even if the other tenant happens to own the house.

    I don't agree with that. If the OP rents out a second room he should pay half the rent to his first tenant?
    Although I suppose if the tenant wants equal rights on the spare rooms he could pay more than €400 a month.

    Edit: Ah I hadn't read the post about kicking him out. Now that I have, it sounds like it's the right thing to do.


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    #35
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    mickoneill30 wrote: »
    I don't agree with that. If the OP rents out a second room he should pay half the rent to his first tenant?
    Although I suppose if the tenant wants equal rights on the spare rooms he could pay more than €400 a month.

    OP: was it clear from the start that you were just renting out certain areas in the house. Maybe I shouldn't jump to conclusions. It's just that I've shared 3-bed houses as one of two tenants before and I was never in a situation where I was renting specified areas of the house: it was a house share. The way it's described here is like some weird digs situation - or a guest house?

    If he has accepted that from the start, I can see why you feel you have dibs on the room, but letting him then use the spare room just complicates things imo.
    mickoneill30 wrote: »
    As the lease is due to be renewed how about bumping it up €50 a month and getting a cleaner in so they can do a huge clean once or twice a month.

    We did something like this before and it worked. Could be a plan. Also it's a discreet way of raising the issue of cleaning as you're saying that the house isn't clean enough and the choice is to share cleaning duties or pay.


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    #36
    StormWarrior
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭StormWarrior


    stovelid wrote: »
    OP: was it clear from the start that you were just renting out certain areas in the house. Maybe I shouldn't jump to conclusions. It's just that I've shared 3-bed houses as one of two tenants before and I was never in a situation where I was renting specified areas of the house: it was a house share. The way it's described here is like some weird digs situation - or a guest house?

    If he has accepted that from the start, I can see why you feel you have dibs on the room, but letting him then use the spare room just complicates things imo.

    I don't see what's weird about it, anyone with half a brain cell would understand that they were renting a room, and getting use of the kitchen, bathroom & living room, not getting full run of the entire house. I agree that letting him use the spare room complicates things. With most people it would probably be ok to let them use it once in a while, but this tenant sounds like the kind of person who takes a mile if you give them an inch. For this reason he shouldn't get an inch more of the house than what he has actually paid for.


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    #37
    StormWarrior
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭StormWarrior


    doireann08 wrote: »
    Storm Warrior its the complete lack of respect that is the issue. His mates have now gone. P didn't even say thanks I appreciate you letting them stay as anyone with manners would do.

    When one of his friends arrived, P wasn't even here..... My mother actually came to stay today and yesterday. She has just left. P has met my mother before, but he never even said hello to her or acknowledged her presence. Again beyond ignorant!!. So I have made the decision to kick him out.

    I agree about the lack of respect, that's what I meant when I was shocked about the way he expected you to put up with his friends there when you had other plans. He is treating your house like a youth hostel, good on you for getting rid of him. Do let us know how he takes the news about being let go and not getting his deposit back. By the sounds of him, you should be worried about what he'll do when he finds out. Don't let him have anyone else over for the duration of his stay, I've got a horrible feeling that when you tell him, he'll start making your life even more of a misery.


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    #38
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    StormWarrior wrote: »
    I don't see what's weird about it, anyone with half a brain cell would understand .

    I would have never taken it to be as as such, and I've shared plenty of houses. Unless told specifically otherwise, I assume that shouse sharing is house-sharing.


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    #39
    doireann08
    Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭doireann08


    stovelid wrote: »
    Bullshit.

    The ownership of the house shouldn't figure in the equation. A tenancy exists and as far as that goes, the tenant should be equal to the other tenant, even if the other tenant happens to own the house.

    If the owners wants to enforce arbitrary rules based on their ownership of the house, the tenant should be informed of the situation up-front. Personally, I tended to avoid house-shares with a house owner because I found that the Celtic Tiger situation was often in effect: home-owner need help with mortgage but deep-down doesn't want to share home. Not saying this is necessarily the case with OP, obviously.

    As for the cleaning up, the OP has every right to expect the tenant to clean up after themselves without having it in contract - it's basic manners.

    Hi Stovelid. I have lived in several houseshares and if one of the other tenants wanted to have their friends stay over for the night ( i am not talking about dropping over for dinner and drinks!) . It is common courtesy to let the others know. In any other houseshare I have been in, it would be taking the p*ss if any housemate kept having their friends over in the spare room or the sitting room.

    If you want to keep using the spare room, well then pay the additional rent to use it!!! I don't think P should " expect" to use the spare room when he feels like it because their is no -one in it at present. I did make it clear that I don't mind if friends stay over occasionally but that is it!!.

    The other issue is that P is quite mean and ignorant. He was pretty rude to my mother. I feel like it is all one way traffic and that I have gone out of my way to be nice to him and would never get a thank you. He is lacking in any manners.

    I have now locked the spare room... so he will not be using it any more.


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    #40
    lion_bar
    Registered Users Posts: 170 ✭✭lion_bar


    Why not get a cleaner to come in for an hour or two a week to clean the cooker and the two bathrooms.

    split the bill with P who you said is good to pay bills.


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    #41
    doireann08
    Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭doireann08


    StormWarrior wrote: »
    I don't see what's weird about it, anyone with half a brain cell would understand that they were renting a room, and getting use of the kitchen, bathroom & living room, not getting full run of the entire house. I agree that letting him use the spare room complicates things. With most people it would probably be ok to let them use it once in a while, but this tenant sounds like the kind of person who takes a mile if you give them an inch. For this reason he shouldn't get an inch more of the house than what he has actually paid for.

    StormWarrior, that is it in a nutshell. By the way I was also a tenant with a homeowner, so I have been at the other side of the coin too. I used the spare room occassionally, nowhere near as frequently as P.

    I honestly don't understand how people think that just because there is a spare room in a house, they have the godgiven right to use it, just because they are renting one of the bedrooms. If he asks to have someone over again, I will say, thats fine, but we should split the rent for that room then ( how stingy is that!!).

    Anyway re: getting rid of him, I have 2 possible ways I can do this.
    1 - I am not renewing his lease, some one else will be moving in
    2- I am increasing the rent by E50 per month, for cleaning etc... ( however if I tell him I was getting a cleaner in, he would make even more of a mess!!!)


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    #42
    HardyEustace
    Registered Users Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭HardyEustace


    doireann08 wrote: »
    Anyway re: getting rid of him, I have 2 possible ways I can do this.
    1 - I am not renewing his lease, some one else will be moving in
    2- I am increasing the rent by E50 per month, for cleaning etc... ( however if I tell him I was getting a cleaner in, he would make even more of a mess!!!)

    Don't renew the lease but don't tell him until after you get August's rent.

    I don't think he'll get any better. I don't think the situation will get any better.

    I know you haven't mentioned it but I would seriously consider renting out the spare room for the reasons I listed in my previous mail.
    I think that three in a house works far, far better as it kind of puts less pressure on everyone.

    You can be choosier about who you get for the rooms as you should always have at least one other income coming in.

    In most cases your housemates will be younger and are far more likely to have more mobile friends and thus get far more use out of the spare room.

    As long as the "spare room" is empty, issues of the tenant using it more could and will arise. Also, to be honest, it's not something you can really tackle at the pre-moving in stage without risking sounding 1. rather selfish 2. rather mean.


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    #43
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    doireann08 wrote: »
    Hi Stovelid. I have lived in several houseshares and if one of the other tenants wanted to have their friends stay over for the night ( i am not talking about dropping over for dinner and drinks!) . It is common courtesy to let the others know. In any other houseshare I have been in, it would be taking the p*ss if any housemate kept having their friends over in the spare room or the sitting room.

    If you want to keep using the spare room, well then pay the additional rent to use it!!! I don't think P should " expect" to use the spare room when he feels like it because their is no -one in it at present. I did make it clear that I don't mind if friends stay over occasionally but that is it!!.

    The other issue is that P is quite mean and ignorant. He was pretty rude to my mother. I feel like it is all one way traffic and that I have gone out of my way to be nice to him and would never get a thank you. He is lacking in any manners.

    I have now locked the spare room... so he will not be using it any more.

    I think you should just refuse to renew his lease. It sounds like it won't work out, especially if he has been rude to your mother. Which you don't appear to have mentioned until now, for some reason.

    I think you should to make it absolutely clear to new tenants that:

    You're offering a "digs" type tenancy where they are renting a defined space in Your House and not a house-share. When I was renting, I would have found this very helpful as to know which tenancies to avoid straight out of hand.

    You expect either participation in a cleaning rota or a contribution towards a cleaner. Perhaps include the latter in an increased rent, as you say, which is a good idea.


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    #44
    StormWarrior
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭StormWarrior


    Just tell him that your living styles are not compatible because of the mess and the way he treats your house like a youth hostel, plus his rudeness to you and your mother. As soon as you have August's rent, tell him. Say that you're deducting the cost of repairing the hole in the wall from his deposit, and before giving him the rest of the deposit you will inspect his room, and if it's not in the standard he receved it in, he won't get anything back. If he plays up at all once you've told him, throw him out immediately. I'm sure it won't hurt him, sounds like he has plenty of friends he can crash with!


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    #45
    StormWarrior
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭StormWarrior


    stovelid wrote: »
    I would have never taken it to be as as such, and I've shared plenty of houses. Unless told specifically otherwise, I assume that shouse sharing is house-sharing.

    The OP said "I'm renting a room to a guy," I don't know how anyone would take that to mean they could use the whole house however they liked.


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    #46
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    StormWarrior wrote: »
    and the way he treats your house like a youth hostel, !

    The tenancy actually appears to be not unlike a youth hostel: renting a bedroom with access to strictly defined communal spaces.

    It appears to be offered without requiring a youth hostel card though, which is a bonus. :)


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    #47
    StormWarrior
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭StormWarrior


    stovelid wrote: »
    The tenancy actually appears to be not unlike a youth hostel: renting a bedroom with access to strictly defined communal spaces.

    Not really, you don't tend to rent bedrooms in youth hostels, and I've never stayed in one with access to strictly defined spaces. The way he treats her house sounds like the hostels I stayed in when I was travelling around Europe in my younger days: loads of random people coming and going whenever they feel like it, crashing all over the place, wandering around anywhere they please and making a mess.

    The tenancy sounds to me like he's renting a room, just for himself, he gets access to certain places in the house but now he is taking the p*ss and using the whole house, even areas that don't concern him and having loads of people there constantly.


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    #48
    doireann08
    Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭doireann08


    thanks everyone
    my mother only came up on sat which is why i never mentioned it previously. P had met her once before
    My mother and I were sitting in the kitchen having a coffee. Paul came in to kitchen never said hello to her and completely ignored her!! which was strange considering my mother had spoken to him last time she was up

    Honestly I do find it strange that there is a debate as to what rooms a tenant has access to when renting a house??
    I have rented for years and if there was a spare room, we all agreed in the beginning how it was used. how often friends could stay over in it etc etc.

    When I previously rented and shared a house with the owner occupier. She did say to me that she didn't mind me having friends to stay occasionally, but not as a regular occurance. In this case I never viewed her spare room for me to use as a pleased simply because I paid rent. I don't get the comparision to a youth hostel. I have spoke to a few people about it and they all said his behaviour was unacceptable..

    I am in my early 30's and my house is not a revolving door to have P's friends crash on the couch.

    The problem is P doesn't respect that it is my home... and I feel like his "mother" having to clean up after him constantly.....to the point where I feel like I am nagging.... He doesn't know that I saw the hole in the wall, so I am going to have to find a way to bring that up now...

    I have never had this issue with any other person I rented the two rooms out to.


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    #49
    HardyEustace
    Registered Users Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭HardyEustace


    doireann08 wrote: »
    The problem is P doesn't respect that it is my home... and I feel like his "mother" having to clean up after him constantly.....to the point where I feel like I am nagging.... He doesn't know that I saw the hole in the wall, so I am going to have to find a way to bring that up now...

    To be honest, I wouldn't mention it till the final inspection of his room before he moves out.
    1. you'll get his back up, relations seem strained between you and it could make it worse - you've another six weeks of sharing a house
    2. he could try and fix it and make it even worse

    It gives him time to invent excuses/reasons for it


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    #50
    doireann08
    Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭doireann08


    HardyEustace wrote: »
    To be honest, I wouldn't mention it till the final inspection of his room before he moves out.
    1. you'll get his back up, relations seem strained between you and it could make it worse - you've another six weeks of sharing a house
    2. he could try and fix it and make it even worse

    It gives him time to invent excuses/reasons for it

    I agree with you. However in order to deduct some of the money from the deposit, I will need to have an idea how much it will cost to fix. I am guessing that the walls in his room will need to be repainted too.


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    #51
    HardyEustace
    Registered Users Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭HardyEustace


    doireann08 wrote: »
    I agree with you. However in order to deduct some of the money from the deposit, I will need to have an idea how much it will cost to fix. I am guessing that the walls in his room will need to be repainted too.

    You can get a general quote from tradespeople. It's a fairly bog standard thing to fix I'm sure.

    To be honest, I don't think you should charge him for re-painting. I think that comes under general wear and tear. Repainting is just a smart move on your part as you'll attract a more people to the room as it'll look nicer and it sets a precedence for the tenant that it's a nice house that should be looked after.


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    #52
    doireann08
    Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭doireann08


    i guess i will have to take a guess as to how much to fix the hole
    It is plasterboard, so I guess it would be pretty easy to fix with filler, or does the whole wall have to be replastered ( i hope not!!) the hole is about half the size of a fist


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    #53
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    StormWarrior wrote: »
    The tenancy sounds to me like he's renting a room, just for himself, he gets access to certain places in the house but now he is taking the p*ss and using the whole house, even areas that don't concern him and having loads of people there constantly.

    Maybe the OP could seal off the areas that don't concern him with tape, like crime scenes. Or those cool dog collars that give a electric shock.


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    #54
    mickoneill30
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭mickoneill30


    stovelid wrote: »
    Maybe the OP could seal off the areas that don't concern him with tape, like crime scenes. Or those cool dog collars that give a electric shock.

    Yeah he could do that. Or he could just rent a room to someone with half a brain who will know that means bedroom and common areas. It's not really a complicated concept.


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    #55
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    mickoneill30 wrote: »
    Or he could just rent a room to someone with half a brain who will know that means bedroom and common areas.

    Having a tenant with half a brain might lead to issues with calculating rent or even bowel control though.


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    #56
    StormWarrior
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭StormWarrior


    I guess if you think that the tenant should have full rein of the house, then it's ok for him to make use of the owner's bedroom too whenever he has too many mates over to fit in the spare room?


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    #57
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    StormWarrior wrote: »
    I guess if you think that the tenant should have full rein of the house, then it's ok for him to make use of the owner's bedroom too whenever he has too many mates over to fit in the spare room?

    Of course.


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    #58
    Jaysoose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭Jaysoose


    StormWarrior wrote: »
    Just tell him that your living styles are not compatible because of the mess and the way he treats your house like a youth hostel, plus his rudeness to you and your mother. As soon as you have August's rent, tell him. Say that you're deducting the cost of repairing the hole in the wall from his deposit, and before giving him the rest of the deposit you will inspect his room, and if it's not in the standard he receved it in, he won't get anything back. If he plays up at all once you've told him, throw him out immediately. I'm sure it won't hurt him, sounds like he has plenty of friends he can crash with!


    OP please dont take the above advice, be civil at all times and if needs be deduct an amount reflecting the damage then return the rest of his deposit.

    You seem to be getting worked up, at the end of the day its not working out which happens a lot of the time and there is no need to see it as a personal vendetta on his part...maybe he just cant see what he is doing.. im not excusing any of the behaviour by your tenant by the way but i see any kneejerk reaction on your part as needless. End the tenancy and move on/


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    #59
    Jaysoose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭Jaysoose


    StormWarrior wrote: »
    I guess if you think that the tenant should have full rein of the house, then it's ok for him to make use of the owner's bedroom too whenever he has too many mates over to fit in the spare room?

    Your really off on a tangent with this imaginary scenario...


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    #60
    lonsdale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13 ✭lonsdale


    maybe write up a list of house rules and stick it on the fridge, it makes things seem more official and if you get new room mates they will know what the story is from the off


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    #61
    Hank Scorpio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,631 ✭✭✭✭Hank Scorpio


    I think your being way OTT


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