Confederate flags on Shandon Street

dulpit · 05-11-2020 2:28pm #1

Hey all,

Every summer for the last few years one of the apartments near the bottom of Shandon street (before the junction to Blarney Street as you're coming up the hill) has had a number of Confederate flags flying out the windows. I didn't see any this year until the last few weeks, so I assume it's tied to the GAA season. I would have thought by now the person would have known why not to fly those flags, and Cork GAA have publicly stated in the past that these flags should not be used.

I'm half tempted to figure out which house it is so I can post them a postcard reminding them what the flags stand for. Unless someone here knows who it is and can give them a gentle reminder.

Fabio · 05-11-2020 3:53pm

FFS leave it off.

dulpit · 05-11-2020 3:58pm

Fabio wrote: »

FFS leave it off.

What? Having racist flags flying out the window on a street with a lot of minority owned businesses is cool?

Granadino · 05-11-2020 3:59pm

dulpit wrote: »

What? Having racist flags flying out the window on a street with a lot of minority owned businesses is cool?

Why don't you knock on their door and ask them?

whisky_galore · 05-11-2020 4:01pm

dulpit wrote: »

Hey all,

Every summer for the last few years one of the apartments near the bottom of Shandon street (before the junction to Blarney Street as you're coming up the hill) has had a number of Confederate flags flying out the windows. I didn't see any this year until the last few weeks, so I assume it's tied to the GAA season. I would have thought by now the person would have known why not to fly those flags, and Cork GAA have publicly stated in the past that these flags should not be used.

I'm half tempted to figure out which house it is so I can post them a postcard reminding them what the flags stand for. Unless someone here knows who it is and can give them a gentle reminder.

I doubt they're the kind that will take any notice of you.

TomTomTim · 05-11-2020 4:04pm

Granadino wrote: »

Why don't you knock on their door and ask them?

Simple. Social justice types are often cowardly people. They love to scream names at people on the internet, but reach a stumbling block when it comes approaching people in the real world. I'm sure the strongly worded letter will put the fear in the guilty party though.

BrianBoru00 · 05-11-2020 4:06pm

dulpit wrote: »

What? Having racist flags flying out the window on a street with a lot of minority owned businesses is cool?

How the fluich can a flag be racist :rolleyes:

They ve been flown at Cork matches for at least 30 years and I'd wager that the people flying them had absolutely no iota what they "stand" for - they've have no connotations outside of the USA. They've nothing go to do with Chinese lads or polish lassies or Nigerian princes - the only minority group that can feel offended by them are AFRICAN AMERICANS from the US like - have we many of them living here?

L1011 · 05-11-2020 4:07pm

If the flag has no meaning outside the US, why use it at all?

afro man · 05-11-2020 4:09pm

dulpit wrote: »

What? Having racist flags flying out the window on a street with a lot of minority owned businesses is cool?

some people consider the confederate flag racists now and some people don't consider it as racist .. If you so upset call to the house and ask them to take it down , seems like the Minority owned businesses don't seem to mind

TomTomTim · 05-11-2020 4:09pm

L1011 wrote: »

If the flag has no meaning outside the US, why use it at all?

Rebel county, rebel flag. I think that's how deep it goes.

olestoepoke · 05-11-2020 4:12pm

dulpit wrote: »

What? Having racist flags flying out the window on a street with a lot of minority owned businesses is cool?

I'd wager if you went into said businesses and asked them if they knew anything about the flag that half wouldn't have a clue and those that did wouldn't care less. The flag is a tradition among Cork fans and they should be allowed to carry on their traditions regardless of those that are easily offended.

olestoepoke · 05-11-2020 4:13pm

L1011 wrote: »

If the flag has no meaning outside the US, why use it at all?

Erm, the rebel county. Its a long standing tradition.

feckwunker · 05-11-2020 4:18pm

L1011 wrote: »

If the flag has no meaning outside the US, why use it at all?

If the flag has no meaning outside the US, why would you be bothered by it at all?

Harry Palmr · 05-11-2020 4:20pm

#corklivesmatter.

L1011 · 05-11-2020 4:21pm

olestoepoke wrote: »

Erm, the rebel county. Its a long standing tradition.

Which means an accepted meaning.

olestoepoke · 05-11-2020 4:22pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

#corklivesmatter.

Langerslivesmatter #save our flag

NickNickleby · 05-11-2020 8:31pm

Funnily enough, I thought it was all about pretty young things in tight jeans and tied shirts (the girls, that is) and young lads with great haircuts stickin' it to "the man". So, 1970's rebels. I'd wager it was in this context that the flag became an emblem at GAA matches.

whisky_galore · 05-11-2020 8:35pm

olestoepoke wrote: »

Erm, the rebel county. Its a long standing tradition.

So is waving the Imperial Japanese Rising Sun flag around....

Markcheese · 05-11-2020 8:42pm

It has meaning , in the southern usa particularly, and obviously to african americans,
In cork it's the rebel county thing , the guy is entitled to stick it on his window ... Would I,not a chance
The gas were wise to discourage it ,they don't need the agro ,
If it were used at a gaa match ( or a protest) in conjunction with racist chants or slurs then that's a different story ,

In short ,the more " fuss " that's made about it , the more nutcases will start using it ,the more it'll come to mean something , if it's not used at matches ,and if businesses discourage it ,it'll just slowly disappear ....

beer enigma · 05-11-2020 8:52pm

I always thought it was Dukes of Hazzard, my chances of seeing Daisy Duke have been dashed

Jeepers if we have nothing to worry about bar the fact you aren't seeing the flags then shure we're grand

But if anyone sees Daisy, PM me

cantalach · 06-11-2020 1:03am

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

How the fluich can a flag be racist :rolleyes:

Well you did ask.

Straight Talker · 06-11-2020 3:26am

olestoepoke wrote: »

I'd wager if you went into said businesses and asked them if they knew anything about the flag that half wouldn't have a clue and those that did wouldn't care less. The flag is a tradition among Cork fans and they should be allowed to carry on their traditions regardless of those that are easily offended.

Well the county board have banned Cork fans bringing them to games. It's not often i agree with the way the county board have traditionally done things, but im with them on this one. A man originally from Fiji, was our most recent all ireland hurling winning captain after all. Of course there was never a racist reason, for the usage of conefederate flags by Cork fans. But we have been informed that the flag has connotations with racism and slavery, and i think that sort of tradition as you call it, is something that we as a county can do without. There's plenty of other flags, that we can use to celebrate when we win our next double.;)

Nekarsulm · 06-11-2020 3:58am

Before we all "Woke" we thought it was synonymous with Dodge Chargers, CJ7's, cut-off jeans and putting one over on the Po-leece.
Things are so much better now......

PreCocious · 06-11-2020 10:08am

olestoepoke wrote: »

Erm, the rebel county. Its a long standing tradition.

The Rebel County - so called because they supported the campaign of a different English King to rule over them.

The Rebel County - where the highest honour is to have a picture with the UK queen.

BrianBoru00 · 06-11-2020 10:35am

cantalach wrote: »

Well you did ask.

Again, the flag isn't racist.

Neither is the swastika for that matter - it's an ancient religious symbol.
while the nazi party adopted it for its flag

John_Rambo · 06-11-2020 10:44am

This American confederate flag has become a widely recognised symbol of the Southern United States, racism and white supremacy. It is also known as the rebel flag, Dixie flag, and Southern cross.

Anyone raising or hanging the flag is either stupid enough to be racist or stupid enough to not know the meaning behind the flag.

blindsider · 06-11-2020 11:13am

Different symbols (and words/phrases) come to mean different things over time. That's the nature of language. Words that were acceptable 50 yrs ago, are absolutely not acceptable now.

Geography plays a part too e.g. route is not pronounced root in polite company in Australia - it means something quite different!! (It's pronounced the American way row-t rhyymes with about

Many Irish people, and especially the bored media, got upset with Ben & Jerry's Ice cream a few yrs ago: the Black & Tan storm in an ice-cream bowl

https://nowiknow.com/the-ben-and-jerrys-flavor-that-left-a-bad-taste-in-some-mouths/

If many people legitimately take offence by the use of the Confederate flag, which was used by those who supported slavery and the oppression of black Americans (and others), then I would not use it - and I would ask those who do, to listen to the GAA County board and players.

Surely there's another flag GAA supporters could use?

beer enigma · 06-11-2020 11:13am

John_Rambo wrote: »

This American confederate flag has become a widely recognised symbol of the Southern United States, racism and white supremacy. It is also known as the rebel flag, Dixie flag, and Southern cross.

Anyone raising or hanging the flag is either stupid enough to be racist or stupid enough to not know the meaning behind the flag.

Or a Dukes of Hazzard fan

John_Rambo · 06-11-2020 11:19am

beer enigma wrote: »

Or a Dukes of Hazzard fan

This category -

John_Rambo wrote: »

stupid enough to not know the meaning behind the flag.

biko · 06-11-2020 11:59am

Maybe you should go knock on the door OP and tell them what you think the flag represents?

jimgoose · 06-11-2020 12:22pm

Strictly speaking the Southern Cross, to give it it's proper monicker, was flown as a battle-flag by the army of Northern Virginia during the civil war. It was used in the top-left canton of the actual Confederate States of America flag between 1863 and 1865, known as the Stainless Banner.

jimgoose · 06-11-2020 12:23pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

So is waving the Imperial Japanese Rising Sun flag around....

The Rising Sun flag is used as the Japanese Naval ensign, and for the military generally. It is true that it is considered offensive in some jurisdictions that were subject to Japanese war crimes, but I personally enjoy the fact that it pisses off the Chinese.

The national flag of Japan has the same Sun emblem but no red bars. It is also used in Caaark to indicate the presence of a curry-house.

olestoepoke · 06-11-2020 1:09pm

PreCocious wrote: »

The Rebel County - so called because they supported the campaign of a different English King to rule over them.

The Rebel County - where the highest honour is to have a picture with the UK queen.

Ah come on now, we'd all be using sterling today if it weren't for the bandits of west Cork, and I'm a Dub.

PalLimerick · 06-11-2020 1:11pm

dulpit wrote: »

Hey all,

Every summer for the last few years one of the apartments near the bottom of Shandon street (before the junction to Blarney Street as you're coming up the hill) has had a number of Confederate flags flying out the windows. I didn't see any this year until the last few weeks, so I assume it's tied to the GAA season. I would have thought by now the person would have known why not to fly those flags, and Cork GAA have publicly stated in the past that these flags should not be used.

I'm half tempted to figure out which house it is so I can post them a postcard reminding them what the flags stand for. Unless someone here knows who it is and can give them a gentle reminder.

IMO this is Norris Cole behaviour on your part.

the beer revolu · 06-11-2020 1:33pm

olestoepoke wrote: »

Ah come on now, we'd all be using sterling today if it weren't for the bandits of west Cork, and I'm a Dub.

Doesn't change the fact that the term "Rebel County" has nothing to do with the War of Independence.

John_Rambo · 06-11-2020 1:52pm

jimgoose wrote: »

Strictly speaking the Southern Cross, to give it it's proper monicker, was flown as a battle-flag by the army of Northern Virginia during the civil war. It was used in the top-left canton of the actual Confederate States of America flag between 1863 and 1865, known as the Stainless Banner.

I think we're talking present day and what the flag represents in this century.

PreCocious · 06-11-2020 1:55pm

olestoepoke wrote: »

Ah come on now, we'd all be using sterling today if it weren't for the bandits of west Cork, and I'm a Dub.

I believe there was fighting in other parts of the country as well.

Nekarsulm · 06-11-2020 5:23pm

olestoepoke wrote: »

Ah come on now, we'd all be using sterling today if it weren't for the bandits of west Cork, and I'm a Dub.

The bandits of West Cork brought in the European Exchange Rate mechanism?
Feck me, they kept that quiet!
1979, wasn't it?

cantalach · 06-11-2020 9:41pm

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

Neither is the swastika for that matter - it's an ancient religious symbol.
while the nazi party adopted it for its flag

Thanks but I’m well travelled in India and SE Asia, and I think everyone knows that anyway. I didn’t just show any ould swastika. I specifically showed the Nazi flag. I must have been in 100 pagodas and temples in the last 3-4 years and of all the swastikas I’ve seen, I never saw a thick black one in a white disk on a red canvas. THAT particular swastika IS a symbol of anti-semitism, racism, sectarianism, homophobia, etc. It’s disingenuous to argue over over semantics and say that a flag can’t be racist. That’s the same as, “guns don’t kill people - people kill people.”

whisky_galore · 07-11-2020 11:10am

jimgoose wrote: »

The Rising Sun flag is used as the Japanese Naval ensign, and for the military generally. It is true that it is considered offensive in some jurisdictions that were subject to Japanese war crimes, but I personally enjoy the fact that it pisses off the Chinese.

Koreans have a particular dislike of it.

If people want to be dickheads waving this or a Confederate flag around, that's completely up to them.

bot43 · 07-11-2020 12:26pm

The woke brigade have gone too far. During the rain the other day I put a white hood and mask over my face so my hair and face wouldn’t get wet while walking down Shandon street. Loads of snowflakes starting screaming at me “thaaaaats waaaaaaaaycist”. I asked them how could a piece of cloth be racist. And everyone around me applauded.

bot43 · 07-11-2020 12:27pm

TomTomTim wrote: »

Simple. Social justice types are often cowardly people. They love to scream names at people on the internet, but reach a stumbling block when it comes approaching people in the real world. I'm sure the strongly worded letter will put the fear in the guilty party though.

The ironing of something like this being posted on an anonymous forum.

bot43 · 07-11-2020 12:28pm

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

How the fluich can a flag be racist :rolleyes:

They ve been flown at Cork matches for at least 30 years and I'd wager that the people flying them had absolutely no iota what they "stand" for - they've have no connotations outside of the USA. They've nothing go to do with Chinese lads or polish lassies or Nigerian princes - the only minority group that can feel offended by them are AFRICAN AMERICANS from the US like - have we many of them living here?

Ah yes. The “we’ve been flying our flag since before racism was invented” card.

bot43 · 07-11-2020 12:30pm

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Before we all "Woke" we thought it was synonymous with Dodge Chargers, CJ7's, cut-off jeans and putting one over on the Po-leece.
Things are so much better now......

What does “woke” mean to you?

From what I can see it’s a term used by daily mail readers to insult people who aren’t complete arseholes.

But that’s just my read on it.

mordeith · 07-11-2020 2:07pm

bot43 wrote: »

The ironing of something like this being posted on an anonymous forum.

Wish someone would do my ironing online, I've a load of it to do.

yenom · 08-11-2020 1:27am

This has come up before. The locals which include a lot of black fellas know it's for matches and not them. He seems to have a different flag out the window every week depending on who is playing.

Cork Trucker · 08-11-2020 4:11pm

Cork is the rebel county indeed. Also that street is by and large mostly black people and has been for 15-20 years at least

opus · 08-11-2020 5:18pm

As someone who lives there I think you might be somewhat incorrect in the racial breakdown of the area.

Cork Trucker · 08-11-2020 6:04pm

Not from there, but whenever I have been in the area that is what I see

cantalach · 09-11-2020 2:10am

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Not from there, but whenever I have been in the area that is what I see

I don’t know either way but it must be ten years now since I heard the joke:

“The Lord Mayor was on hand for the official opening of the Shandon Street Business Centre which was set up by three local men and a white guy.”

Herb Powell · 09-11-2020 11:28am

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

Again, the flag isn't racist.

Neither is the swastika for that matter - it's an ancient religious symbol.
while the nazi party adopted it for its flag

Which is the exact flag in the post you quoted, genius.

Anyway OP, I wouldn't bother. I don't like the flag either and don't think people so be flying it so flippantly (or at all tbh) but like, it's his house, he can do whatever he wants with it. Have a chat if you really want but confrontation on this wouldn't do much good to my mind. It's just signalling an ignorant person, so if they're not getting it at this stage, they'll probably not appreciate a letter, no matter how graciously you may word it.

Confederate flags on Shandon Street

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