Did any of you ever get slapped as a child?

misterme123 · 14-07-2019 11:19pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

What are you trying to say exactly? Because “effectively” and “explicitly” don’t mean the same thing, and it appears from your post as if you’re trying to argue that they do.

This thread is asking whether or not posters were smacked as children by their parents, and one poster tried to claim that smacking children is illegal. I simply pointed out that it isn’t, and I explained why it isn’t, and then you chose to tell me again that it was illegal, to which I chose not to respond because it would mean just repeating what I’d already said.

Now you’re trying to tell me what the clearest way for you to interpret the law is by completely muddying the waters and introducing confusion where I have already provided clarity on the issue with regard to the position of smacking within the context of Irish legislation and the law.

Perhaps if you stated your position clearly, I might better understand where you’re coming from.

Eh...no, I'm not equating the words “effectively” and “explicitly”. It's pretty clear what I'm saying: (wait for it!) Punishing your kids by smacking them is illegal. You have absolutely not provided clarity on this.

Removing the reasonable chastisement defence had the effect of making it illegal. It's illegal to hit a child in the same way as it's illegal to hit an adult. In other words, you could conceivably be convicted of assault for smacking your child.

Humphrey Menton · 14-07-2019 11:54pm

I remember one day as kids, myself and my sister were taking turns sliding down the stairs. Anyway, to cut a long story short, my sister ended up getting a nasty bit of carpet burn on her arm. Unfortunately for her, our biological father caught her in the act and deliberately slapped her right in the area where the carpet burn had manifested. Given that she was already in pain, complete with a valuable lesson that this particular activity was wrought with unpleasant hazards, I thought his actions were a tad extreme, if not slightly sadistic.

branie2 · 15-07-2019 12:02am

That's child abuse! :mad:

Purple Mountain · 15-07-2019 12:06am

branie2 wrote: »

That's child abuse! :mad:

Nope that was 80s Ireland.

One eyed Jack · 15-07-2019 12:44am

misterme123 wrote: »

Eh...no, I'm not equating the words “effectively” and “explicitly”. It's pretty clear what I'm saying: (wait for it!) Punishing your kids by smacking them is illegal. You have absolutely not provided clarity on this.

Removing the reasonable chastisement defence had the effect of making it illegal. It's illegal to hit a child in the same way as it's illegal to hit an adult. In other words, you could conceivably be convicted of assault for smacking your child.

Ok, removing the defence of reasonable chastisement to a charge of child neglect didn’t make smacking illegal anyway, nor did it effectively make smacking illegal.

One could of course conceivably be charged with assault in any case, but that’s nothing to do with a parent who is charged with child neglect whose legal representation is no longer able to use the defence of reasonable chastisement in defence of the accused.

There is nothing inherently illegal with regard to physical discipline as a means of disciplining a child. The offence strictly relates to children, and it has quite a few conditions which are more comprehensive than just saying “smacking children is illegal” -

246.—(1) It shall be an offence for any person who has the custody, charge or care of a child wilfully to assault, ill-treat, neglect, abandon or expose the child, or cause or procure or allow the child to be assaulted, ill-treated, neglected, abandoned or exposed, in a manner likely to cause unnecessary suffering or injury to the child's health or seriously to affect his or her wellbeing.

...

(5) For the purposes of this section a person shall be deemed to have neglected a child in a manner likely to cause the child unnecessary suffering or injury to his or her health or seriously to affect his or her wellbeing if the person—

(a) fails to provide adequate food, clothing, heating, medical aid or accommodation for the child, or

(b) being unable to provide such food, clothing, heating, medical aid or accommodation, fails to take steps to have it provided under the enactments relating to health, social welfare or housing.

(6) In subsection (1) the reference to a child's health or wellbeing includes a reference to the child's physical, mental or emotional health or wellbeing.

(7) For the purposes of this section ill-treatment of a child includes any frightening, bullying or threatening of the child, and “ill-treat” shall be construed accordingly.

s.246 Children’s Act 2001

If the intent of any form of discipline is never to cause unnecessary suffering or injury to the child’s health or seriously to affect his or her well being, then a person has not committed any offence.

Having said that, when cases of child neglect do come before the courts, it’s because there is no doubt that they meet all of the criteria above, and are at the more extreme end of the scale where the intent to cause harm and unnecessary suffering to the child or children is a lot more definitive than a parent or guardian simply smacking the child or children in their care. That’s when the defence of reasonable chastisement which was once used, can no longer be used as a justification for the defendants actions with regard to the child or children in their care.

I didn’t mean to harp on about it but the idea that physical discipline is inherently any more harmful to children than any other forms of discipline is simply false. It ignores the reality of how children are neglected using any other forms of discipline which when intentionally taken to their extreme, can be just as harmful to a child and in many cases even more so. The reason why physical discipline gets so many people’s backs up is simply because it’s the most obvious form of discipline, and it understandably makes some people uncomfortable, but the reality is that it’s actually no more harmful or as harmful to a child as any other form of discipline that can be taken to it’s extreme.

In any circumstances where a form of discipline is taken to it’s extreme with the intent of causing harm or unnecessary suffering to a child, then we’re no longer discussing discipline, we’re talking about child neglect and in some more extreme cases again - child abuse. You’ll get no argument from me as to how wrong that is at least.

topper75 · 15-07-2019 12:42pm

I don't really get this straight equation that appears to be fashionable nowadays between slapping and child abuse.

Of course slapping taken to an extreme can quickly extend into abuse... but in and of itself, hardly.

When repeated attempts to verbally reason with a kid fail, then it is time to reteach who actually has the authority in the relationship. You don't even have to inflict any pain necessarily.

This is it · 15-07-2019 1:06pm

topper75 wrote: »

I don't really get this straight equation that appears to be fashionable nowadays between slapping and child abuse.

Of course slapping taken to an extreme can quickly extend into abuse... but in and of itself, hardly.

When repeated attempts to verbally reason with a kid fail, then it is time to reteach who actually has the authority in the relationship. You don't even have to inflict any pain necessarily.

If you can't teach a child without hitting them, you're doing it wrong.

sbsquarepants · 15-07-2019 1:16pm

Slapped? No

My auld dear would wade into myself and the bro, effing and blinding and the swinging the sweeping brush like a fúcking ninja. Merciless she was!

But slapped, no never:D

Paddy Cow · 15-07-2019 2:03pm

topper75 wrote: »

I don't really get this straight equation that appears to be fashionable nowadays between slapping and child abuse.

Of course slapping taken to an extreme can quickly extend into abuse... but in and of itself, hardly.

When repeated attempts to verbally reason with a kid fail, then it is time to reteach who actually has the authority in the relationship. You don't even have to inflict any pain necessarily.

If slapping a child is no big deal and a reasonable thing to do, why do parents go bat sh!t crazy at the mere thought of another adult slapping their child?

BorneTobyWilde · 15-07-2019 2:07pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpVuF0_AJjQ

ohnonotgmail · 15-07-2019 2:15pm

Only in school. I still remember archie* and not with fondness. thankfully i was not a regular penitent unlike some in my class.

*Archie was six inches cut off the end of the thick broom handle.

One eyed Jack · 15-07-2019 2:23pm

This is it wrote: »

If you can't teach a child without hitting them, you're doing it wrong.

Trite, simplistic soundbites like that are just daft, frankly.

Doing what wrong, and by who’s standards?

Raising their children according to their own standards is something every parent has a fundamental right to do, and the State recognises these fundamental rights in our Constitution. The Constitution places limitations on these rights certainly, not only for the protection of children but as the guardian of the common good of society.

Raising their children contrary to your individual standards however, is something very different entirely, and something I don’t imagine anyone else other than yourself, pays any heed to.

One eyed Jack · 15-07-2019 2:28pm

Paddy Cow wrote: »

If slapping a child is no big deal and a reasonable thing to do, why do parents go bat sh!t crazy at the mere thought of another adult slapping their child?

To be fair, only some parents will indeed go batshìt crazy at the mere thought of another adult slapping their child. It’s not difficult to understand and there’s no contradiction in their reasoning that another adult doesn’t have the authority to discipline their child.

Emme · 15-07-2019 2:34pm

As a child in the 70s I got the odd smack on the bum from my mother and I usually deserved it. Or a smack on the hand if I went too near the cooker with the words "hot and burny, don't touch". Nothing out of the ordinary and it did me no harm. In school we all got slapped across the hand with the bamboo cane if we stepped out of line. The more slaps of the cane you could take without flinching the tougher you were considered to be.

My father was a different story. He used to hit me so hard he would leave red marks. If he thought I did something really bad I would get beaten always including several slaps in the face. If I didn't finish everything on my plate he would slap me hard across the face, make me take a bite and so on until everything on the plate was finished. I remember wandering off when we were working in the field one time (I was 11 and starting to develop) and when he got into the house and saw me he started beating me up hitting me everywhere including really hard in the chest. My mother stepped in and told him to stop. I don't know if any of this had anything to do with the eating disorder I developed in my teens and which went on sporadically into my early 30s.

Like an earlier poster said about his father my father is old now and expects me to be sweet to him all the time. The verbal abuse, negative comparisons to cousins/neighbours' children and general denigration from both mother and father was nearly worse, it was constant and having no brothers and sisters to compare things with (like the cane in school) probably left me more affected by it than I should have been. In no-divorce 70s Ireland a child was an easy scapegoat for the anger you felt about your marriage and life in general.

My grandmother used to threaten me with a hydrodare pipe or wooden spoon but never hit me. She was very hot on table manners and used to tell me off very firmly (no shouting) when I held cutlery the wrong way or put my elbows on the table. I was also not allowed to leave her table before everyone else had finished their meals.

I don't have children of my own due to circumstances beyond my control but if I had I would not beat them or verbally abuse them. A quick slap away from danger such as a hot surface or fire is fine if appropriate but a full on beating is not.

claregal1 · 15-07-2019 2:36pm

Humphrey Menton wrote: »

I remember one day as kids, myself and my sister were taking turns sliding down the stairs. Anyway, to cut a long story short, my sister ended up getting a nasty bit of carpet burn on her arm. Unfortunately for her, our biological father caught her in the act and deliberately slapped her right in the area where the carpet burn had manifested. Given that she was already in pain, complete with a valuable lesson that this particular activity was wrought with unpleasant hazards, I thought his actions were a tad extreme, if not slightly sadistic.

Lol that brought back a memory of myself and my brother and sister doing that too and timing each other to see who was the fastest ... It was all going good until my sister beat my brothers time and he pushed her and her arse went out through the bottom pane of glass in the front door .. I think my brother got a wallop off my mother for pushing his sister , she didn't care about the glass being broke was more concerned that he had pushed her in temper - we were all under 10 - that was a great game in all fairness for rainy days

Paddy Cow · 15-07-2019 2:50pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

To be fair, only some parents will indeed go batshcrazy at the mere thought of another adult slapping their child. It’s not difficult to understand and there’s no contradiction in their reasoning that another adult doesn’t have the authority to discipline their child.

What about creche staff and teachers who are with the child all day? If the child misbehaves and are used to getting a slap to keep them in place at home, how are those people supposed to discipline the child?

red petal · 15-07-2019 2:56pm

Yep, to be honest I remember thinking my Dad hated me at the time. I think anyone who says "done me no harm" is probably justifying their own actions these days. And kids are no wilder these days than back when we were slapped. The only difference is you have grown up and can see kids misbehaving in comparison to when you were small yourself and oblivious to it.

One eyed Jack · 15-07-2019 3:03pm

Paddy Cow wrote: »

What about creche staff and teachers who are with the child all day? If the child misbehaves and are used to getting a slap to keep them in place at home, how are those people supposed to discipline the child?

I’m not being smart PC but I’m genuinely not sure of the point of your question? I’ve already explained why some parents will of course go batshìt crazy when another adult disciplines their children. Crèche staff and teachers who are with the children all day deal with these kind of parents all day too.

Crèche staff and teachers who are not the parents of the children, are held to a different standard than parents of the children, as this crèche owner testified to with regard to the treatment by one of her employees of a child in their care -

Boy (2) slammed on chair, tribunal hears

Sacked: Childcare worker shocked by creche owner's claims

The difference in context seems painfully obvious, but I’m wondering am I missing something in your question?

nthclare · 15-07-2019 3:17pm

I got a few slaps which were just a slap for being a little brat, nothing too bad.
I remember seeing a kid down the road get an awful hiding by his dad, it was horrific.

I can still remember the screams and horrors coming from the garden, same guy hit me one time for throwing eggs at Halloween.

My dad sorted him out without it coming to blows, said prick was called Stephen nicknamed Stephanie as he ended up getting a sex change...
He used to walk around town in his heels wig etc

Dad told him if he ever goes at me again he'd kick Stephanie in the fanny, self defence and all that....

branie2 · 15-07-2019 3:19pm

I think you mean she

misterme123 · 15-07-2019 4:04pm

From the Irish Times: Mar 29, 2019:
A man (46) has been fined €700 after a judge convicted him of two counts of assault on his daughter (2) after he was seen slapping her in a Cork shopping centre.

(Can't post links)

The case is an example of a man punishing his 2-year-old daughter by smacking, and being convicted of assault as a result.

The fact that smacking was considered to have been proven was sufficient for a conviction. The severity/intent etc. was not necessary for a conviction (although it was probably what got him noticed).

topper75 · 15-07-2019 4:25pm

This is it wrote: »

If you can't teach a child without hitting them, you're doing it wrong.

You are assuming that children can always be reasoned with. I'm assuming on that basis that your experience with kids is perhaps limited.

Paddy Cow wrote: »

If slapping a child is no big deal and a reasonable thing to do, why do parents go bat sh!t crazy at the mere thought of another adult slapping their child?

Same as you go crazy if someone decided tonight they were going to live in your house. Its yours, but it is not wrong to live in it.

misterme123 wrote: »

From the Irish Times: Mar 29, 2019:
A man (46) has been fined €700 after a judge convicted him of two counts of assault on his daughter (2) after he was seen slapping her in a Cork shopping centre.

(Can't post links)

The case is an example of a man punishing his 2-year-old daughter by smacking, and being convicted of assault as a result.

The fact that smacking was considered to have been proven was sufficient for a conviction. The severity/intent etc. was not necessary for a conviction (although it was probably what got him noticed).

These cases are as ludicrous to me as an adult taking a case against their toddler for emotional upset caused by a supermarket tantrum. There is real sense of attempting to fix something that was not broken. But, then again, that is very 21st century.

red petal · 15-07-2019 4:30pm

topper75 wrote:

Same as you go crazy if someone decided tonight they were going to live in your house. Its yours, but it is not wrong to live in it.

That's bullsh!t! If you believe that the only way your child will learn is through slapping, then you should have no issue with a teacher or relative who is minding them doing the same! - Sure how else could they teach them?

Lazy excuse!

One eyed Jack · 15-07-2019 4:37pm

misterme123 wrote: »

From the Irish Times: Mar 29, 2019:
A man (46) has been fined €700 after a judge convicted him of two counts of assault on his daughter (2) after he was seen slapping her in a Cork shopping centre.

(Can't post links)

The case is an example of a man punishing his 2-year-old daughter by smacking, and being convicted of assault as a result.

The fact that smacking was considered to have been proven was sufficient for a conviction. The severity/intent etc. was not necessary for a conviction (although it was probably what got him noticed).

Your post was a bit light on the details as of course it is the job of the prosecution to prove intent when a person is accused of assault, so I did google and while I couldn’t find a reference to the case in the Irish Times, I did find an article in the Irish examiner. I presume it’s the same case anyway which gives significant details that you left out of your post -

Father who slapped daughter, 2, at Cork supermarket is fined €700

The fact that it was proven he was guilty of having committed assault was what was sufficient for a conviction, not simply the idea that he slapped the child. He went quite a bit further than just slapping the child!

For what it’s worth btw, a defence to a charge of assault is that the defendant was acting in defence of another person. If any of the witnesses had chosen to step in there and prevent the father from continuing to assault the child, they could have found themselves charged with assault, and in their defence it could have been argued that they were acting in defence of the child.

As long as they used appropriate force to subdue the father and while I can understand they might be tempted to give the man an unmerciful beatdown, the Gardaí can be very understanding in my experience of those situations, particularly when it’s an adult is assaulting a child and someone steps in to prevent them from continuing to do so.

Not that I am actually condoning that sort of violence, *cough* :pac:

Gorgeousgeorge · 15-07-2019 4:41pm

Got the wooden spoon and as I got older graduated to the sweeping brush or Hoover whichever was at hand. Did no harm imo.

Wouldn't slap my daughter though as I feel personally I can handle it with talking and time out etc but I would not judge anyone who does do it.

mariaalice · 15-07-2019 4:45pm

I was never smacked by my parents expect the one time by my mother my father was exceptionally easy going and we use to have great craic with him. I never smacked my children expect when one of them did something dangerous ran out in front of traffic in a car park and I got a fright.

I neve got hit in school either just lots of books thrown at me and chalk and being shouted at and pushed around shoved back in to the line that sort of thing.

rob316 · 15-07-2019 5:40pm

retro:electro wrote: »

The second you raise your hand to a child, you’ve lost whatever point you’ve tried to make. People say “oh I was slapped when I was a child, it did me no harm”, well you still remember it don’t you? So clearly it still affects you. As an adult, you are more powerful, more intelligent, more articulate and stronger than any little child could ever be - and if you still end up using the palm of your hand to get your point across then you lose all respect from me.

My mother was beaten black and blue in school and home. I'd never blame her for giving me a slap or a belt of the wooden spoon I deserved to correct me. She would of used words first but I'd ignore them as I'm a child. It was never to hurt me I know that. I did me no harm whatsoever, I only remember it as I was asked the question, its not something I carry with me everyday like some sort of psychological damage.

I have a friend from childhood who would of got bad enough beatings at home for doing wrong or just getting in the way of their father who had a bad day. That's another story altogether though, thats abuse. And that friend would of caused the most trouble out of all of us out on the streets so I do agree, it doesn't work.

I was in McDonalds recently and I presume a young single mother was giving out to the 3 young kids. I had to move away when I heard her tell the toddler ithough " Your actually ****ing retarded, one more word out of you and I'll smash your teeth in". A child of maybe 3 like, disgusting.

Nearly everyone from the age of 20 today up got slapped at some stage for been bold, its no big deal if that's all it was.

misterme123 · 15-07-2019 8:48pm

rob316 wrote: »

My mother was beaten black and blue in school and home. I'd never blame her for giving me a slap or a belt of the wooden spoon I deserved to correct me. She would of used words first but I'd ignore them as I'm a child. It was never to hurt me I know that. I did me no harm whatsoever, I only remember it as I was asked the question, its not something I carry with me everyday like some sort of psychological damage.

I have a friend from childhood who would of got bad enough beatings at home for doing wrong or just getting in the way of their father who had a bad day. That's another story altogether though, thats abuse. And that friend would of caused the most trouble out of all of us out on the streets so I do agree, it doesn't work.

I was in McDonalds recently and I presume a young single mother was giving out to the 3 young kids. I had to move away when I heard her tell the toddler ithough " Your actually ****ing retarded, one more word out of you and I'll smash your teeth in". A child of maybe 3 like, disgusting.

Nearly everyone from the age of 20 today up got slapped at some stage for been bold, its no big deal if that's all it was.

In the environment I grew up in, the possibility of being hit was completely beyond the pale (and I'm way older than 20). It was simply not necessary. I can't imagine many people from this kind of background decide to do things differently and reintroduce slapping to the next generation. So it's hard not have biases. I can't help but view parents who need to slap their children as lacking some basic life skills or education, likely as a result of their own upbringing; just like you have a negative view of the McDonalds mother.

is_that_so · 15-07-2019 9:04pm

misterme123 wrote: »

In the environment I grew up in, the possibility of being hit was completely beyond the pale (and I'm way older than 20). It was simply not necessary. I can't imagine many people from this kind of background decide to do things differently and reintroduce slapping to the next generation. So it's hard not have biases. I can't help but view parents who need to slap their children as lacking some basic life skills or education, likely as a result of their own upbringing; just like you have a negative view of the McDonalds mother.

Looks like you have a whole lot of contempt for a whole lot of people. For many generations it was another tool to help with child rearing, for many people it rarely occurred and they came out the other end just fine. These days parents would accept that it doesn't need to be part of parenting any longer. The kid in McDonalds is doing her best. Yes, she may be ill-equipped and doing it very poorly but very loud remonstration with children is not unusual at all.

Pinch Flat · 15-07-2019 9:07pm

Lived in fear of the wooden spoon growing up. Also it was normal for teachers to hit you.

DeanAustin · 15-07-2019 9:19pm

Got slapped as a child. Nothing too major from what I remember. Couple of slaps and maybe the wooden spoon. My mother was quite short tempered and did it more than my dad.

I don’t judge them for it. At the time it was a way to control your kids for the majority of people. However, I’d never do it to my own. Time’s moved on, the world has changed and I can’t see that anything good can come from it.

One eyed Jack · 15-07-2019 9:49pm

misterme123 wrote: »

In the environment I grew up in, the possibility of being hit was completely beyond the pale (and I'm way older than 20). It was simply not necessary. I can't imagine many people from this kind of background decide to do things differently and reintroduce slapping to the next generation. So it's hard not have biases. I can't help but view parents who need to slap their children as lacking some basic life skills or education, likely as a result of their own upbringing; just like you have a negative view of the McDonalds mother.

It’s actually incredibly easy not to have biases, and you nailed the remedy in your own post - biases are due to a lack of some basic life skills or education, and can be overcome by learning some life skills or educating oneself. Your own biases are due to the environment you grew up in and of course that’s not an inherently bad thing. I would have contempt for anyone too who tells their children they’re “retarded” (you’re old enough to know the negative connotations and associations of that word) and threatens their children that they would knock their teeth in. That’s not lacking some basic life skills or education, it’s just abuse.

Verbal, psychological and emotional abuse like that can be as damaging and in many cases even more so to a child as smacking or slapping. I’m sure you’ve often heard adults who have suffered physical and mental abuse as children say that while the physical wounds have healed, the mental and emotional wounds are still raw?

is_that_so wrote: »

Looks like you have a whole lot of contempt for a whole lot of people. For many generations it was another tool to help with child rearing, for many people it rarely occurred and they came out the other end just fine. These days parents would accept that it doesn't need to be part of parenting any longer. The kid in McDonalds is doing her best. Yes, she may be ill-equipped and doing it very poorly but very loud remonstration with children is not unusual at all.

Ahh here, telling a child they’re “retarded” and threatening to knock their teeth in isn’t by any stretch of the imagination doing their best? It actually is contemptible! I’ve known many parents who I could say were ill-equipped to raise their children, but ill-equipped doesn’t mean abusive, and to suggest that calling their child “retarded” and threatening to knock their teeth in is raising a child poorly, is something of an understatement.

is_that_so · 15-07-2019 9:57pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Ahh here, telling a child they’re “retarded” and threatening to knock their teeth in isn’t by any stretch of the imagination doing their best? It actually is contemptible! I’ve known many parents who I could say were ill-equipped to raise their children, but ill-equipped doesn’t mean abusive, and to suggest that calling their child “retarded” and threatening to knock their teeth in is raising a child poorly, is something of an understatement.

Yeah, I think I got all of this down in my post but I guess you wanted to put your own slant on it. Kid is doing her best even where her best is bloody awful. Needs help, intervention or whatever.

One eyed Jack · 15-07-2019 10:19pm

is_that_so wrote: »

Yeah, I think I got all of this down in my post but I guess you wanted to put your own slant on it. Kid is doing her best even where her best is bloody awful. Needs help, intervention or whatever.

I’m genuinely perplexed as to how you can surmise that a parent who tells their child they’re “retarded” and threatens to knock their teeth in, is doing their best? Can you honestly be suggesting that they wouldn’t know better? I would suggest that they absolutely do know better, and that’s precisely why I disagree with you that they’re doing their best.

misterme123 · 15-07-2019 11:24pm

It really is hard not to have biases. We all have biases we aren't even aware of. That's the nature of them.

I didn't really say anything about the woman in McDonalds herself; just that the other poster's reaction to her, right or wrong, was partly instinctive. My general perception of parents who slap their children (whether inaccurate or not) is also an instinctive bias, it's just not a class-based stereotype.

jimbobaloobob · 15-07-2019 11:44pm

Gerry G wrote: »

It never did me an ounce of harm and on rare occasions I have reprimanded my own kids with a stinger to the back of the legs. Society nowadays will severely frown upon it and point to child abuse and teaching a child that violence is ok and blah blah blah. I honestly feel that if more children had received slaps as punishment for doing wrong when they were kids then society wouldnt be in such a sorry state with generations of young people running around with absolutely no fear of authority or repercussion for wrong doing.

This is a well worn train of thought that if more slaps were dished out we would get less of a backlash in behaviour.

So by hitting a child and them being your own child you're sending them the message that it's ok for those that love you most to hit you.

Violence of any level has never stopped resentment or retaliation. One of the major problems in society now is le non du pere. The lack of father figure roles modelling good behaviour in all walks of life. Doesn't have to be a male either that holds this role.

who_me · 15-07-2019 11:56pm

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Lived in fear of the wooden spoon growing up. Also it was normal for teachers to hit you.

I know. Thinking back, I can remember being hit for talking in class, or even for not being able to learn poems off.

Must be some sadistic people got into teaching, hitting children for not being able to memorise a poem they'll never need again...

Strazdas · 16-07-2019 12:02am

misterme123 wrote: »

In the environment I grew up in, the possibility of being hit was completely beyond the pale (and I'm way older than 20). It was simply not necessary. I can't imagine many people from this kind of background decide to do things differently and reintroduce slapping to the next generation. So it's hard not have biases. I can't help but view parents who need to slap their children as lacking some basic life skills or education, likely as a result of their own upbringing; just like you have a negative view of the McDonalds mother.

As I get older, I find it very difficult to justify a parent ever striking a child, no matter what the provocation or level of unruliness. It just looks terrible and like a violation of the child.

Dr Strange · 16-07-2019 5:46am

Got slapped the odd time and the spoon at rare occasions.
Have children and would never do the same to them.

It’s not necessary and in my view once you do it there’s no going back, they remember.
Maybe that’s what some want to achieve but I couldn’t take that look in their eyes, almost as if you betrayed them.

16-07-2019 6:02am

Slapping was my Dad's job, and there was a whole procedure to it. After I did something bad, one of my siblings would often squeal about it to my mum or a grandparent. They would hear all the evidence, hear from the defence, and then if the testimony was sufficiently damming (it usually was), I'd be sent out to the yard or down the hall to find Dad and "Tell him what you did" and ask for a slap.

Then you'd have to stand in front of him and recount it all (by now, blubbing) and hold out your hand, which never came -- I'm certain I never actually got a slap from him, it was the worry of it that learnt me.

I remember being slapped once, on the backside, on holiday by my Mum for being a right brat. Children can't always be reasoned with, and sometimes they understand social boundaries using only fairly primitive means, which slapping is.

It's definitely a form of discipline that should be used sparingly, but I can never accept the notion that, in this kind of way, it is some harmful child abuse.

Lillyfae · 16-07-2019 8:03am

CoBo55 wrote: »

Luckily no, his anger had subsided by the time I came along, my previous 4 siblings weren't as fortunate. Now that he's in his dotage we're supposed to play the loving family to this vicious fcuker.

Similar situation albeit without the behaviour improvement.

Emme wrote: »

...my father is old now and expects me to be sweet to him all the time. The verbal abuse, negative comparisons to cousins/neighbours' children and general denigration from both mother and father was nearly worse, it was constant and having no brothers and sisters to compare things with (like the cane in school) probably left me more affected by it than I should have been. In no-divorce 70s Ireland a child was an easy scapegoat for the anger you felt about your marriage and life in general.

So much this. Both of my parents are delusional, see themselves as the height of respectable and everytime I see them I realise they truly believe that they were wonderful parents who gave us everything and as a result, they own our achievements too. I left home at just 16 and have been putting a roof over my own head, educating myself, falling down and picking myself back up ever since without an ounce of help from them. I haven't even lived in the same country as them since I was 21. Every thing positive in my life I alone have achieved. All they instilled in me was my mental illness, and the dysfunction I see in my siblings.

Lackey wrote: »

Its unfair when people judge their parents actions by today’s stardards
Its not fair to make an elderly person feel bad over something that happened 30 /50 years ago when they were doing the best they could with the information they had at the time.

I don't blame them for this. I do blame them for pretending it never happened, pretending I'm stark raving mad when I try to clear the air about it. This "gaslighting" has resulted in quite a serious psychiatric disorder that I have to deal with now, and much personal and financial expense, so that it doesn't affect my life, and those of my partner and child.

Aceandstuff wrote: »

I don't want her to be anywhere near my children if I have any in the future. Some people are just f*cked up, slapping never fixed them, and them slapping their children only makes things worse.

You know what? People told me that this wouldn't happen and that their experience would be welcome. B*llix. I get flashbacks when I see them anywhere near my child, and my own trauma is even worse because what I now understand is how twisted it is to physically and verbally abuse the person in the world that you should be most in awe of. As a result, I stop just short of no contact altogether because one of the things about myself that I dislike is that I am afraid to "cause a scene".

Bottom line- don't hit your children, you don't know how much or little harm it will do and they will remember it.

Thumpette · 16-07-2019 8:22am

Yes, my parents took great pride on breaking a few wooden spoons on myself and my sister, though she was naughtier and got the brunt of it.

Also got belt and Sally rod. My sister has 2 kids now and is forever threatening to 'redden their ass' though I don't know how often age actually does. Both her and my mother are totally disgusted that I don't hit my 2 year old.

I remember one of the main reasons I got slapped was for being clumsy. I was forever falling and really hurting myself and their response was to hit me for it.

Think it's sad all the people on here who think they deserved it. I can guess that in the vast vast majority of cases that's just untrue.

Kintarō Hattori · 16-07-2019 8:24am

I got the cane once in primary school in the 80s along with someone else. Not sure what we had done to deserve it, I think we may have run in the area by the principal's office.

At home I'm sure I did get the wooden spoon on the bottom once or twice but I don't really remember it. As a Dad now to a 2 year old I can't possibly comprehend hitting her. Different times back then.

Flaccus · 16-07-2019 8:25am

jester77 wrote: »

The wooden spoon is where it was at, many a broken one in the process. Must have been good money in the wooden spoon business back in 70's & 80's

This. Always the wooden spoon. Memories of been chased around the kitchen table with it. Although I think I once got a clout of a rolling pin (yoke used for baking) when said wooden spoon was not near at hand (usually I hid it).

is_that_so · 16-07-2019 9:17am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I’m genuinely perplexed as to how you can surmise that a parent who tells their child they’re “retarded” and threatens to knock their teeth in, is doing their best? Can you honestly be suggesting that they wouldn’t know better? I would suggest that they absolutely do know better, and that’s precisely why I disagree with you that they’re doing their best.

In the context of their life I think they are and I'd expect them to say as much. I favour intervention and support over condemnation. Works better in the long term for everyone.

dodderangler · 16-07-2019 9:45am

Slapped plenty. Done me no harm.
But nothing was worse to any child to hear than a mother saying
Wait till you father hears about this or wait till your father comes home.
That was scarier than any slap or spoon

ohnonotgmail · 16-07-2019 9:58am

dodderangler wrote: »

Slapped plenty. Done me no harm.
But nothing was worse to any child to hear than a mother saying
Wait till you father hears about this or wait till your father comes home.
That was scarier than any slap or spoon

I see your mother was a firm believer in psychological torture as well.

Lollipops23 · 16-07-2019 10:05am

Only once that I remember, and I remember thinking "yeah, probably deserved that" at the time. Can't remember what the crime was now.

My ma had a hand like a lazer though, and managed to get me right at the spot on the back of my knees between my socks and skirt.

TheIrishGrover · 16-07-2019 10:06am

Only once or twice. Probably could have done with a bit more. I was a little sh*t

beertons · 16-07-2019 10:15am

Felt like I was hammered when I was a child. Only when I was bold.

Did any of you ever get slapped as a child?

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