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Rent Freeze - the mechanics of

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    #32
    Eric_Noon
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭Eric_Noon


    jrosen wrote: »
    Assuming a mortgage break is allowed on rented properties, tagging at the end is not a huge deal. Still the landlords problem to deal with but in the larger scheme of things its workable. However the devil will be in the detail. We have great tenants that have been with us for years and I would hope we could make this work, I would never want to see them out but im the person the bank will come knocking for.

    What on earth are you talking about?! if your tenants cant pay rent, you go to your bank and explain the situation and you will get your mortgage deferred!


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    #33
    Tacitus Kilgore
    Registered Users Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Tacitus Kilgore


    Eric_Noon wrote: »
    What on earth are you talking about?! if your tenants cant pay rent, you go to your bank and explain the situation and you will get your mortgage deferred!

    Landlords will have some fight on their hands trying to remove financially ruined tenants from a house.

    This goes for banks too.


    Whether you own, rent, or squat right now - you're going nowhere.


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    #34
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Eric_Noon wrote: »
    and if i am not in a position to pay my bills come May, the companys will be told just that.

    I suspect this is the dread for LLs, that tenants would will adopt the same policy and tell them just that if they can’t pay the rent tagged on at the end.


  • Options
    #35
    Eric_Noon
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭Eric_Noon


    Eric_Noon wrote: »
    What on earth are you talking about?! if your tenants cant pay rent, you go to your bank and explain the situation and you will get your mortgage deferred!

    and if your worried about earnings, you can apply for an emergency social welfare payment of 203 pw online like everyone else.


  • Options
    #36
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Eric_Noon wrote: »
    What on earth are you talking about?! if your tenants cant pay rent, you go to your bank and explain the situation and you will get your mortgage deferred!

    Simple as that, banks are well known for their willingness to help mortgage holders in distress.


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    #37
    Fian
    Registered Users Posts: 2,187 ✭✭✭Fian


    Being realistic it is essentially inevitable that landlords will take a hit. Not as big a hit as someone running a hairdressers, beauty salon or small restaurant. Need to take it on the chin, that's business reality.

    I certainly won't be evicting my tenants if they can't pay atm. What can you do.

    Will likely fund the mortgage payments from my salary, in fairness I am funding some of the payment from my salary even with full rent. I don't see myself failing to make mortgage repayments and dealing with the credit rating implications of that regardless of whether i have the option or not.


  • Options
    #38
    jrosen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭jrosen


    Eric_Noon wrote: »
    What on earth are you talking about?! if your tenants cant pay rent, you go to your bank and explain the situation and you will get your mortgage deferred!

    Will I? You can guarantee it? Because I cant even guarantee it. My bank speaking with them this morning couldnt give me a straight answer. So until I hear it from them I do not know what the options will be.

    It could be a whole lot of worry over nothing and the rent will come in as usual. Im just trying to plan and be ready if thats not the case


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    #39
    Eric_Noon
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭Eric_Noon


    jrosen wrote: »
    Will I? You can guarantee it? Because I cant even guarantee it. My bank speaking with them this morning couldnt give me a straight answer. So until I hear it from them I do not know what the options will be.

    It could be a whole lot of worry over nothing and the rent will come in as usual. Im just trying to plan and be ready if thats not the case

    https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/coronavirus-landlords-warned-to-aid-tenants-or-state-will-intervene-39054060.html

    I have a friend who has had his mortgage deferred already. banks are currently dealing with it on a case by case basis.

    a bit of foresight wouldnt go a miss here, prepare for the worst. but as you said your tenants might be fine, they might be lucky and they can work from home.


  • Options
    #40
    jrosen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭jrosen


    Fian wrote: »
    Being realistic it is essentially inevitable that landlords will take a hit. Not as big a hit as someone running a hairdressers, beauty salon or small restaurant. Need to take it on the chin, that's business reality.

    I certainly won't be evicting my tenants if they can't pay atm. What can you do.

    Will likely fund the mortgage payments from my salary, in fairness I am funding some of the payment from my salary even with full rent. I don't see myself failing to make mortgage repayments and dealing with the credit rating implications of that regardless of whether i have the option or not.

    I think your right and landlords will take a hit. But how much of a hit they will and can afford to take will have huge implications for tenants. There is an incredible amount of uncertainty for everyone.


  • Options
    #41
    jrosen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭jrosen


    Eric_Noon wrote: »
    https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/coronavirus-landlords-warned-to-aid-tenants-or-state-will-intervene-39054060.html

    I have a friend who has had his mortgage deferred already. banks are currently dealing with it on a case by case basis.

    a bit of foresight wouldnt go a miss here, prepare for the worst. but as you said your tenants might be fine, they might be lucky and they can work from home.

    Thats good to hear. Yes Im trying to plan and organize and have all the info I need.


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  • Options
    #42
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    I have an apartment rented out, on which there is still a mortgage to be paid. If i get a 3 month holiday on the repayments, i'd give a 3 month break on the rent - it will leave me out of pocket which is a bit shít (and which i can ill afford) but i don't really see another option. The 3 months "free" rent will just have to be tacked on at the end of the mortgage, finish paying 3 months later than planned - boo hoo!

    These are unusual times, we're all going to have to do unusual things!


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    #43
    Kevg268
    Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭Kevg268


    I'm an accidental landlord and when I had to leave my house I got in a tenant. He has been hit and miss paying but has always maintained the house. I'm tax compliant and above board but I didn't tell the mortgage company that I was getting a tenant in when I was moving. My accountant told me not to tell them when I enquired from him, it was 2011. If I contact the mortgage company now, as tenant has lost his job, will they assist in a mortgage holiday or am i asking for problems.


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    #44
    Eric_Noon
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭Eric_Noon


    Kevg268 wrote: »
    I'm an accidental landlord and when I had to leave my house I got in a tenant. He has been hit and miss paying but has always maintained the house. I'm tax compliant and above board but I didn't tell the mortgage company that I was getting a tenant in when I was moving. My accountant told me not to tell them when I enquired from him, it was 2011. If I contact the mortgage company now, as tenant has lost his job, will they assist in a mortgage holiday or am i asking for problems.

    have you lost your job? reduced earnings?


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    #45
    Kevg268
    Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭Kevg268


    I didn't but ive 2 mortgages now and only 1 working as wife is mind the kids.


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    #46
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,033 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »
    Soo, you'll get a break on the mortgage but won't pass it on?



    I hope you never get another cent from your tenants, and lose your asset.

    What if the property is mortgage free, does that change your expectations on what the landlord "should" do?
    What if the rent covers 5% of the payments?
    10%? When is the onus on the landlord to freeze the rent?


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    #47
    dharma200
    Registered Users Posts: 998 ✭✭✭dharma200


    Dav010 wrote: »
    But there is no guarantee the tenant will pay. Three months rent in Dublin could be over €5k, if the tenant does not pay, the Landlord still has to pay the mortgage, the three month freeze is just added on to the end of the 25year term. The Landlord could be significantly out of pocket if the tenant does not make up the payment at the end of the tenancy.

    The second sentence there. This is what will have to change in society.


  • Options
    #48
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,033 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Eric_Noon wrote: »
    https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/coronavirus-landlords-warned-to-aid-tenants-or-state-will-intervene-39054060.html

    I have a friend who has had his mortgage deferred already. banks are currently dealing with it on a case by case basis.

    a bit of foresight wouldnt go a miss here, prepare for the worst. but as you said your tenants might be fine, they might be lucky and they can work from home.

    Foresight on the tenants part to have money to cover times without income?


  • Options
    #49
    Eric_Noon
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭Eric_Noon


    Kevg268 wrote: »
    I didn't but ive 2 mortgages now and only 1 working as wife is mind the kids.

    it just depends if we get a mortgage freeze or not, I guess. but if not it most likely be best if you keep up with your repayments!

    I'm not an expert though, so it might not hurt to make an enquiry about this!


  • Options
    #50
    Tacitus Kilgore
    Registered Users Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Tacitus Kilgore


    GreeBo wrote: »
    What if the property is mortgage free, does that change your expectations on what the landlord "should" do?
    What if the rent covers 5% of the payments?
    10%? When is the onus on the landlord to freeze the rent?

    If it's mortgage free the landlord should do what's right. Now is not the time for profiteering off assets, Many people are basically volunteering to be unemployed at the moment for the greater good. Losing out on a bit of free money because one owns an asset is barely a contribution but would make a huge difference.

    If rent only covers 5% of payment on a property it should not be rented, that's terrible business.

    Whether they freeze rent or not, some tenants won't be able to pay full rent, its up to the landlord how they deal with it then. Eviction won't be the answer though.


  • Options
    #51
    Eric_Noon
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭Eric_Noon


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Foresight on the tenants part to have money to cover times without income?

    It is not up to tenants to be flush with cash in case of a global epidemic, its up to the government to impliment measures.


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  • Options
    #52
    aido79
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 5,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭aido79


    Its vague enough for landlords with a mortgage but what about landlords without a mortgage? Are they just expected to take the hit and give 3 months free rent and lose that income?


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    #53
    Eric_Noon
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭Eric_Noon


    aido79 wrote: »
    Its vague enough for landlords with a mortgage but what about landlords without a mortgage? Are they just expected to take the hit and give 3 months free rent and lose that income?

    https://www.gov.ie/en/service/be74d3-covid-19-pandemic-unemployment-payment/?fbclid=IwAR3EfiL2hRnvCUKwW1hEilETLfjvdojNZsRdekg-kESCHQsCQiSHrlpIw4Y

    Social welfare have rolled out the COVID-19 Pandemic Unemployment Payment.

    Self emplyed or Employee, you will get this payment into your account.


  • Options
    #54
    aido79
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 5,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭aido79


    Eric_Noon wrote: »
    https://www.gov.ie/en/service/be74d3-covid-19-pandemic-unemployment-payment/?fbclid=IwAR3EfiL2hRnvCUKwW1hEilETLfjvdojNZsRdekg-kESCHQsCQiSHrlpIw4Y

    Am I supposed to take that as a serious reply?


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    #55
    Tacitus Kilgore
    Registered Users Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Tacitus Kilgore


    aido79 wrote: »
    Its vague enough for landlords with a mortgage but what about landlords without a mortgage? Are they just expected to take the hit and give 3 months free rent and lose that income?

    Yes, their (for this example: presumably unemployed) tenants are expected to take the hit of the loss of their own income through no fault of their own either.


  • Options
    #56
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »
    If it's mortgage free the landlord should do what's right. Now is not the time for profiteering off assets, Many people are basically volunteering to be unemployed at the moment for the greater good. Losing out on a bit of free money because one owns an asset is barely a contribution but would make a huge difference.

    If rent only covers 5% of payment on a property it should not be rented, that's terrible business.

    Whether they freeze rent or not, some tenants won't be able to pay full rent, its up to the landlord how they deal with it then. Eviction won't be the answer though.

    Just a moment here, charging legal market rent is not profiteering, it is being paid for providing a service. And rent income is not “free money”, it is taxable income from providing that service. Get down off the high horse.


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    #57
    Eric_Noon
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭Eric_Noon


    aido79 wrote: »
    Am I supposed to take that as a serious reply?

    yes, many many people are losing their jobs and earning 0, this is the governments answer for now!


  • Options
    #58
    aido79
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 5,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭aido79


    Eric_Noon wrote: »
    https://www.gov.ie/en/service/be74d3-covid-19-pandemic-unemployment-payment/?fbclid=IwAR3EfiL2hRnvCUKwW1hEilETLfjvdojNZsRdekg-kESCHQsCQiSHrlpIw4Y

    Social welfare have rolled out the COVID-19 Pandemic Unemployment Payment.

    Self emplyed or Employee, you will get this payment into your account.

    And what if they're not unemployed and just happen to own a rental property outright?


  • Options
    #59
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Kevg268 wrote: »
    I'm an accidental landlord and when I had to leave my house I got in a tenant. He has been hit and miss paying but has always maintained the house. I'm tax compliant and above board but I didn't tell the mortgage company that I was getting a tenant in when I was moving. My accountant told me not to tell them when I enquired from him, it was 2011. If I contact the mortgage company now, as tenant has lost his job, will they assist in a mortgage holiday or am i asking for problems.
    If you are on a tracker I'd be very very careful. The tracker could be only for PPR, and a change from that could provide them an out to move you to another product. The banks have proven to be ruthless...


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    #60
    Tacitus Kilgore
    Registered Users Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Tacitus Kilgore


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Just a moment here, charging legal market rent is not profiteering, it is being paid for providing a service. And rent income is not “free money”, it is taxable income from providing that service. Get down off the high horse.


    Yes it is, my current house - rented - is 1350/month, 2 years ago it was 1000/month, 2 years before that it was 700/month.

    There's no mortgage on it, it's a kip that's never been updated since it was built with single glazed windows an cavity block walls in 1983.

    Why does the landlord need to raise the price "iN LiNe WiTh ThE mArKeT" every 2 years? He knows there are no other suitable properties in the area so what choice do we have but to line his pockets? It's blatant profiteering of a basic need, how is it anything else?

    Maybe a few lads like him will find out what being knocked off a high horse really means.


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    #61
    jrosen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭jrosen


    I would think any landlord with no mortgage will just work out a plan with their tenant. Maybe they will take the hit but maybe they will just allow a break and then increase payments once the tenants are back working again! Anyones guess.


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