Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

ezstreet5 wrote: »

I totally agree. Travel demand is highly variable. If you're 22 and coming out of a pub in Galway at 2:00 am,

You have probably spent the best part of €100 on a night out of frivolity, drinking cocktails, pints, wine and eating expensive crap food.

Get yourself a taxi if this is the lifestyle you want.

Investment in public transport for this lot spending their parents money, living at home rent free, and deciding that having a "great night out" that cannot even be recalled the next day because they are "wasted" is not the best way to spend tax payers money. Get a taxi or stay in a shop front door overnight.

Isambard wrote: »

yes, in Galway City, no in Galway sheep country.

just as well that isn't what we are looking for then.
in and around galway city means just that, galway and suburban towns surrounding it that could be grown and enhanced with the adding of rail.

westtip wrote: »

You have probably spent the best part of €100 on a night out of frivolity, drinking cocktails, pints, wine and eating expensive crap food.

Get yourself a taxi if this is the lifestyle you want.

Investment in public transport for this lot spending their parents money, living at home rent free, and deciding that having a "great night out" that cannot even be recalled the next day because they are "wasted" is not the best way to spend tax payers money. Get a taxi or stay in a shop front door overnight.

public transport investment is for all potential users of public transport where that investment is being implemented, not just the ones you like or believe deserve it, and quite rightly so.
we were all young once.

ezstreet5 wrote: »

If you're 22 and coming out of a pub in Galway at 2:00 am, a bus to Athenry or Tuam may be your best bet.

There is no late night bus service to Tuam. And if you want a late night service to Athenry, a bus is your only bet.

ezstreet5 wrote: »

If you want to get from Galway to Dublin or Shannon airport, again, the bus service will be your best bet.

Correct.

ezstreet5 wrote: »

However, if you want to get to/from Athenry, Tuam, Gort, Craughwell, or Oranmore to either Galway or Dublin during peak times, you would really need the train.

This works - but only for journeys to the City Centre. If you work in Galway, you are more likely to work in Parkmore/Ballybrit/Mervue, and the train is no good to you. If you work in any of the hospitals on the east of the city (Galway Clinic, Merlin Park and the Bons), the train is no good. If you study in GMIT, the train is no good. And so on.

ezstreet5 wrote: »

If folk from Tuam, Athenry, Gort, Ennis, want to work in any other town, or even Ballinasloe or Athlone, you need a train.

Any other town? How about if I live in Athenry and work in Loughrea? Should we be building a train line for that?

If I lived in Athenry and worked in Ballinasloe or Athlone, the train would be handy. But that would be on a line that is already built. We are not going to build train infrastructure for the very small number of inter-town passengers.

For instance, the three people a day who use the train from Ardrahan are presumably happy to use that service. Should we have spent all the money on the train station that we did, just for those three people?

ezstreet5 wrote: »

If you have an onward journey via bicycle or if you are disabled, you really need the train.

For sure, trains are better for disabled people. How do you get to the train station from rural County Galway, though? If you drive, then you are most likely to drive to Oranmore P&R and get the train from there - without any additional infrastructure needing to be built.

serfboard wrote: »

For sure, trains are better for disabled people. How do you get to the train station from rural County Galway, though? If you drive, then you are most likely to drive to Oranmore P&R and get the train from there (the train station etc.) - without any additional infrastructure needing to be built.

Well, Athenry was chosen by the Brothers of Charity when they were re-housing folk in the community from Kilcornan. It was a good choice due to infrastructure, so they can walk. There was already an educational center for young adults/teens with intellectual disabilities, and now they've added a day care center. I know parents are looking to find their adult children with ID accommodation in the town because they can live independently there.

Other physically disabled folk travel small distances wheelchair/mobility scooter. You'll see them at the station traveling independently. The local Authority estates (which have some specially designed houses) are all close to the station, which in turn is beside the church/school/shops etc.
Just like able bodied folk who live further out of town family member can pick one up or drop one off to the station.


Athenry, Tuam, Ardrahan, Gort etc. don't have their stations miles away. I'm assuming because the older stations were built before the advent of the car. Alas, this is unlike Oranmore, which was clearly designed around the car. People make choices about where they'd like to live because it'll make their life easier to be near this kind of infrastructure etc. as the Brothers of Charity did so that a car may not be needed at all.

Greaney wrote: »

Well, Athenry was chosen by the Brothers of Charity when they were re-housing folk in the community from Kilcornan. It was a good choice due to infrastructure, so they can walk. There was already an educational center for young adults/teens with intellectual disabilities, and now they've added a day care center. I know parents are looking to find their adult children with ID accommodation in the town because they can live independently there.

Other physically disabled folk travel small distances wheelchair/mobility scooter. You'll see them at the station traveling independently. The local Authority estates (which have some specially designed houses) are all close to the station, which in turn is beside the church/school/shops etc.
Just like able bodied folk who live further out of town family member can pick one up or drop one off to the station.

Athenry, Tuam, Ardrahan, Gort etc. don't have their stations miles away. I'm assuming because the older stations were built before the advent of the car. Alas, this is unlike Oranmore, which was clearly designed around the car. People make choices about where they'd like to live because it'll make their life easier to be near this kind of infrastructure etc. as the Brothers of Charity did so that a car may not be needed at all.

All of this is sensible, but unfortunately you're talking about Ireland, and Galway in particular, where planning is appalling - houses are scattered about the countryside like confetti, and industrial areas are built far away from train lines. For the rural folk who work in Galway City Centre, Oranmore P&R is the solution. For those who work in the Industrial estates, it's bus or drive, and a train line being built to Tuam will not help in the slightest.

The number of people who need mobility scooters is not enough to justify spending tens of millions of euro building a line between Athenry and Tuam/Claremorris, particularly when there are more pressing rail needs.

serfboard wrote: »

Indeed. So, should they re-build that line too?

That would need CPO's. Restoring the WRC would not need that (so much) which is the reason many give for building the green way on that land.

serfboard wrote: »

All of this is sensible, but unfortunately you're talking about Ireland, and Galway in particular, where planning is appalling - houses are scattered about the countryside like confetti, and industrial areas are built far away from train lines. For the rural folk who work in Galway City Centre, Oranmore P&R is the solution. For those who work in the Industrial estates, it's bus or drive, and a train line being built to Tuam will not help in the slightest.

The number of people who need mobility scooters is not enough to justify spending tens of millions of euro building a line between Athenry and Tuam/Claremorris, particularly when there are more pressing rail needs.

According to the last census, 50% of the county work in the City. The top three commuter towns in Galway in order are Oranmore, Tuam & Athenry. They're the top three that 'live' in those towns and work in the city. Rail is not the only option but adds to the 'load' that needs to travel on these routes. (I'll assume you've read the earlier posts about the over 50 buses between Tuam & Galway every day)

The WRC is not just about Galway (although, that's where I live so I reference the county) but also links Limerick, Clare, Galway Mayo & Sligo. These are also major education centers. We are neglecting the planning of the West of Ireland well into the future.

We could argue on about how private companies only work profitable routes and won't serve the WRC areas. We could argue about it being considered an extremely cost effective compared to Motorway, which stops miles outside each of those towns. I could also point out that many rail & cycle to the suburbs of the city.... but you've made up your mind. All I know is, the use of the service has been severely downplayed by those who want a green way, and the demand for housing in those towns is not being met (hundreds of un-built, planned houses in Athenry, as for Ardrahan, plans stalled)

We need to plan for the future and join the dots....

If there was a plan to connect the 56th largest urban centre to the 4th largest by rail, there should be a route selection process, I mean the new N17 doesnt follow the old n17 route, why should we expect a new railway to use a route picked fadó fadó?

I'd prefer to see the 7th or 28th largest urban centres (Swords & Carrigaline) get rail first though.

ezstreet5 wrote: »

Time will tell, but Ardahan has other problems, such as the lack of a sewerage scheme. A proposal to build 23 homes there was refused about a year ago; would any used the station? For the Craughwells, Ardrahan's, and Gort's, modal shift will be extremely slow, at the rate of property turnover.

.

I live 1.5km from Craughwell, on the Athenry road. There are 2 people in our house working in Galway city centre, one in Eyre Square itself.

I/We would love to use rail, but the impediments are:

1. Schedule: there is no train to get you into Galway before either 7am or 8am
2. Parking - paying to park at (either) Irish Rail station is actually more expensive than renting a parking space on a full time basis in Galway
3. Fares - completely out of whack with Dublin. For the same distance (Clonsilla-Dublin), you would pay 1/2 -1/3 the fare. It is cheaper to drive the car.
4. Taxsaver - not available to anyone except PS and those whose employers sign up - and obviously manage the payment -for it. Why can't an individual taxpayer avail of taxsaver, even if only on redeem at end-of-year basis, from Revenue. Right now Taxsaver is for the select few

galwaytt wrote: »

I live 1.5km from Craughwell, on the Athenry road. There are 2 people in our house working in Galway city centre, one in Eyre Square itself.

I/We would love to use rail, but the impediments are:

1. Schedule: there is no train to get you into Galway before either 7am or 8am
2. Parking - paying to park at (either) Irish Rail station is actually more expensive than renting a parking space on a full time basis in Galway
3. Fares - completely out of whack with Dublin. For the same distance (Clonsilla-Dublin), you would pay 1/2 -1/3 the fare. It is cheaper to drive the car.
4. Taxsaver - not available to anyone except PS and those whose employers sign up - and obviously manage the payment -for it. Why can't an individual taxpayer avail of taxsaver, even if only on redeem at end-of-year basis, from Revenue. Right now Taxsaver is for the select few

there's a train arrives at 7.51 and another at 8.10. There isn't an earlier one though

serfboard wrote: »

That's the thing. There's a list as long as your arm of rail money that needs to be spent, before anyone would begin to look at a WRC North.

By then (2040s) we would have got two decades of a Greenway in the meantime.

But no, railway advocates would rather it be left idle. "Railway or rot" is their mantra - thankfully, the public don't see it that way.

There isn't really, You could say Naas should have rail, but Salins is nearby
and Navan should have passenger rail, but thats it in terms of towns in pop size from Tuam up.

Obviously there should be more, and better services, but if we want railways, we shouldnt restrict ourselves to the exact lines the victorians decided, before there was ever a rebar, let alone a Continuous welded rail.
And there should be greenways linking towns and villages on routes also different to the routes the victorians picked.

Isambard wrote: »

there's a train arrives at 7.51 and another at 8.10. There isn't an earlier one though

the arrival at 07:51 isn't reliable enough to ensure on-time arrival at work, needs an earlier window -say, in at 07:40 latest.

08:10 is obviously too late.

Not sure who the existing timings are aimed at tbh.

River Suir wrote: »

You are right in that we shouldn't restrict ourselves to where new rail routes should go but the hard fact is that Irish government policy has for years actively encouraged road development whereas with rail the attitude has been to not allow new lines to be developed other than along existing routes.

It's down to money and budgets. Until the government gives rail the same priority as road and actively encourages rail development we will be stuck where we are.

Government funding is one thing but development partners as facilitated by Local Authorities in Galway has been focused on individuals driving rather than effective public transport.

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Its not about adding new towns to the rail network, first and foremost we need to up the efficiency and effectiveness of the network. There are many investments in the network which will bring more benefits than a service to Tuam. Just look at the line into Galway, there is no point in laying track to Tuam as all you will get is a shuttle to Athenry until Galway - Athenry is doubletracked. Such a shuttle can be provided by bus immediately and at negligible cost if there is such a pressing need for it.

Saying Tuam is almost the biggest town in the country without a train station is meaningless, there are plenty of towns with a train station but are woefully underserved and have the potential to add more passengers than Tuam. Tuam is way down the list of projects to be funded and rightly so.

I don't understand how Tuam has become the focus of this discussion as it is only an intermediate station on the route the same as Ballyglunin - bigger but an intermediate stop nonetheless. The route is Limerick/Claremorris with all that that entails e.g. onward connections to and from places like Westport, Castlebar and Ballina. The Western Rail Corridor not the Athenry/Tuam shuttle.

ezstreet5 wrote: »

What "list of projects to be funded" are you talking about?

Project Ireland 2040.

Del.Monte wrote: »

I don't understand how Tuam has become the focus of this discussion as it is only an intermediate station on the route the same as Ballyglunin - bigger but an intermediate stop nonetheless. The route is Limerick/Claremorris with all that that entails e.g. onward connections to and from places like Westport, Castlebar and Ballina. The Western Rail Corridor not the Athenry/Tuam shuttle.

Phase 2 is from Athenry to Tuam, Phase 3 to Claremorris. If anything is to happen, it will be Phase 2, doing Phase 3 first and leaving a gap wouldn't make a lot of sense.

Those onward connects will be via interchange with other trains. There isn't capacity for services from WRC Phase 2/3 on the existing lines. This was my point, we need to invest in upgrading the existing network first. Spending €150m reopening Tuam - Claremorris to connect into at capacity single track lines is putting the cart before the horse. That money would be better spent on the existing network first.

Whatever happened to that rail report then? Just wondering.

ezstreet5 wrote: »

Nothing new from the following PQ asked in the Dáil yesterday:

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2020-06-09/583/?highlight%5B0%5D=western&highlight%5B1%5D=rail&highlight%5B2%5D=corridor

That's from a month ago, when the Minister for Stepaside was very clearly intent on passing the buck to the incoming Govt.