Yellow vest movement ireland

Franz Von Peppercorn · 30-12-2018 1:11am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The penny drops.

The problem Maryanne is simple. If you’re alright jack and increasing numbers of people are not alright jack then eventually you won’t be alright jack.

Radical politicians, right or left, will come to power.

30-12-2018 1:11am

BBFAN wrote: »

Ah stop Maryanne, your attitude is so naïve.

There are plenty of young people in Ireland today that work their bollix off and they are NOT okay. They are living in a state of constant fear of being evicted from where they live.

Just because you may have your home does not mean that everyone who works hard has one. Stop bull****ting now.

You're happy because you're not in this constant state of worry, good for you. Does not mean that those that come behind are okay. Regardless of how hard they work.

When you get to my age you realise that every generation face the same struggles. You also learn that putting your energies into your family is more important than listening to the gripes of others. Look after you and yours. Or go into politics. You can’t do justice to both. One day you’ll see the truth of my words.

BBFAN · 30-12-2018 1:15am

Deleted User wrote: »

When you get to my age you realise that every generation face the same struggles. You also learn that putting your energies into your family is more important than listening to the gripes of others. Look after you and yours. Or go into politics. You can’t do justice to both. One day you’ll see the truth of my words.

I'm probably older than you Maryanne and I've certainly seen more hardship so don't try to patronise me.

As I said, your attitude is I'm alright Jack. That's fine, you live in your comfortable bubble.

emo72 · 30-12-2018 1:17am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

When you get to my age you realise that every generation face the same struggles. You also learn that putting your energies into your family is more important than listening to the gripes of others. Look after you and yours. Or go into politics. You can’t do justice to both. One day you’ll see the truth of my words.

I'm your age. And I'm okay. But that's no reason to not think of generation coming behind you. Actually it's disgraceful to abandon them. So ****ing selfish. And that's what's wrong with this world.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 30-12-2018 1:18am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

When you get to my age you realise that every generation face the same struggles. You also learn that putting your energies into your family is more important than listening to the gripes of others. Look after you and yours. Or go into politics. You can’t do justice to both. One day you’ll see the truth of my words.

That’s banal claptrap. And, you know, people will get into politics.

I personally don’t want to see Ireland’s rabble left get into power, or the National front in France, or Brexit to go through.

But all of this radicalisation is because of worsening circumstances. We should try fix problems within the system rather than wait see the system collapse.

30-12-2018 1:24am

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

Here is an interesting read (IMHO) on the the subject.

France: Understanding the Gilets Jaunes Uprising

. . . This is no ordinary manifestation.

This is a genuine uprising by millions of city and country folk, young and old, crossing different ethnic and cultural lines.

Macron’s diesel tax hike wasn’t the cause of the gilets jaunes movement. It was the spark detonating a bomb, that has been building for decades.

It is the first time since 1968, that France has seen such a genuine and uprising popular uprising, against the French state.

This protest is different. And it has very specific, historic reasons, as this article will reveal.

<snip>

The Real France

Think you know the real France? Here are a few facts that may shock you:
The French state has been bankrupt since 2004. A minister finally admitted it in 2013.

French GDP hasn’t risen above 2% in 50 years. Yes - FIFTY. The average annual GDP growth rate between 1949-2018? 0.78%.

In 2018, 14% of the population in France live below the poverty line (they earn less than 60% of the median income).

Worse, more than 50% of French people have an annual income of less than €20,150 a year (about $1,900 US per month).

The 'official' unemployment rate is 10% - about 3.5 million citizens (in reality, it's much higher).

The youth unemployment rate is 22%. Yes, you did read that right.

Astonishing but true: the French government employs 25% of the entire French workforce...and it's impossible to fire them.

Because the citizens make such little money, they pay no tax. Less than 50% of French pay any income tax at all; only around 14% pay at the rate of 30%, and less than 1% pay at the rate of 45%.

The government can't deliver services without taxes, so it borrows money. France's debt-GDP is now 100%.

Another revealing statistic: "structural unemployment" is now at 9 -10%. That statistic measures when it is impossible to find people who have the skills and qualifications, to fill available positions. Why? French kids aren't being educated to participate in the workforce. So even if France has a growth spurt (it won’t), they won’t have the labor to fill the new jobs.

So how did this epic disaster happen? And if blame is to be allocated, who bears the most of it?

In other words - why are millions of French citizens on the rampage, right now?

Because there’s a real France, that few ever see.

The France of the gilets jaunes. Or as we might label them, les deplorables.

<snip>

The French Ruling Class

Many still understand France through the lens of Vogue magazine covers: a nation of affluent, happy people who live in elegant homes, with endless holidays, wine and food.

A 24/7 utopia of chic, elegance and style.

Important to note: that France does exist. It is the world of the French ruling class, less than 1% of the population.

This small group of citizens have dominated the business, banking, legal and political scenes for decades.

The ruling class comes from a small group of grandes ecoles, or elite colleges. There are only 3 or 4. The top of the top? L’Ecole d’Administration Nationale (ENA).

Emmanuel Macron’s journey is typical of the ruliing class. . . . .

Yes, and Macron's naivety in thinking he could push a raft of changes through at the same time, a bit like screwing down the safety valve while upping the pressure, something had to blow!
An experienced politician would have introduces the changes gradually over the entire term and people would have been unaware of the scope of the plan until it was too late.

If an Irish politician had introduced property taxes at the same time as the water charges, the civil disobedience would have been an order of magnitude higher, as it was, they were lucky that most people bought the "austerity" story that was used to justify it and the "temporary" USC.

30-12-2018 1:24am

P_1 wrote: »

So striving for high standards is something to be looked down on?

you evaded the question.

but i dont see your posts on boards.ie as striving for high standards. i see them as a performatively extreme bemoaning of imperfection in areas you seem to have little experience or influence.

and im not trying to zing you by pointing out that this is the least interesting, least useful 'contribution' a person might make to any given debate imo

Blaizes · 30-12-2018 1:25am

But the Irish people were always known for their empathy and generosity remember Live Aid we gave more per capita than any other country in the world seven million pounds, a huge amount of money back then.

30-12-2018 1:35am

the lazy catcalls of "im alright jack" are banal in the extreme too

its a trite response to any advice or pointing out of the simple fact that in order to improve your lot its usually sound advice to work hard and in cooperation with the system you find yourself in.

its easy to paint that as horatio algar type aspirational pandering

but its more true, more often than anything coming out of the camp that likes to imagine that there was housing, jobs, money for the taking in any given generation past, or that online barstooling is as valid as experience or knowledge of fields as complex as housing, economics, government, whatever.

its soft and easy truths that people want, and someone to blame for the world not being perfect. youd want to have grown out of it long before the age of twenty tbh

Arthur Daley · 30-12-2018 1:42am

Worse, more than 50% of French people have an annual income of less than €20,150 a year (about $1,900 US per month).
Because the citizens make such little money, they pay no tax. Less than 50% of French pay any income tax at all; only around 14% pay at the rate of 30%, and less than 1% pay at the rate of 45%.
The government can't deliver services without taxes, so it borrows money. France's debt-GDP is now 100%.

Sounds familiar. Ireland has a higher Debt/GDP ratio (and a grossly inflated GDP figure that is not a real world measure of the economic activity in the place). And A very large number of people who don't pay income tax. It is a boast of all politicians that x percentage of people are out of the tax net, and a narrow tax base was one of the criticisms levelled at Ireland in the run up to the Troika coming in. The bastardised property tax was supposed to address this, but hasn't really changed anything.

The stuff you will see on youtube around the Gillet Jaune (or God forbid Strokestown) with the likes of Ben Gilroy, Grand Torino, John Watters etc. is just trampling on the territory of SF and PBP, it doesn't tackle the thorny issues of either people paying for their previous accommodation and lifestyle choices or how taxes are to be raised across the spectrum of adults. I think it's fair to ask all adults to make some contribution to the tax base, and that people pay up for accommodation and lifestyle decisions they have made when they signed on the dotted lines. This is to at least try and be fair to all working people, and the Gillet Jaune purport to be:

The Yellow Vest Ireland movement describes itself as a “protest against the disproportionate burden of the government’s tax and reforms that are failing the working and middle class citizens of Ireland”.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 30-12-2018 1:43am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

the lazy catcalls of "im alright jack" are banal in the extreme too

its a trite response to any advice or pointing out of the simple fact that in order to improve your lot its usually sound advice to work hard and in cooperation with the system you find yourself in.

its easy to paint that as horatio algar type aspirational pandering

but its more true, more often than anything coming out of the camp that likes to imagine that there was housing, jobs, money for the taking in any given generation past, or that online barstooling is as valid as experience or knowledge of fields as complex as housing, economics, government, whatever.

its soft and easy truths that people want, and someone to blame for the world not being perfect. youd want to have grown out of it long before the age of twenty tbh

The whole working hard thing didn’t go well for my sister, a qualified accountant who has never been unemployed, when she was standing outside her house two weeks before Christmas 2014 in the rain as relatives swooped in to pick up the family to put on couches in their respective houses. She’s now a Sinn Féin voter.

As for your claim that we all have to be experts to know when a system is broken or imperfect - we don’t.

emo72 · 30-12-2018 1:46am

My income was enough to raise my family and and kids and buy my home. I had no education and fairly **** paying job. But it got me through the 90s and beyond.

Good luck to anyone thinks that's possible nowadays. It's not. Our standard of living has nosedived. But Leo says fair play to vulture funds. That's our country now and that bollocks. He should be flung from a height. The amount of I'm alright Jack is a disgrace on this thread. We should be trying to make life bearable for everyone. But if your ok with your lot,, you're saying work harder? **** off with that ****e. Stop thinking of yourself, and have a bit of decency.

Arthur Daley · 30-12-2018 1:53am

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The whole working hard thing didn’t go well for my sister, a qualified accountant who has never been unemployed, when she was standing outside her house two weeks before Christmas in the rain as relatives swooped in to pick up the family to put on couches in their respective houses. She’s now a Sinn Féin voter.

And this is why FFG got less than 50% of the vote in the 2016 general election. Once they get beyond the 1922 centenary they will probably be forced to merge. They are fooling no one at this stage.

Blaizes · 30-12-2018 1:56am

emo72 wrote: »

My income was enough to raise my family and and kids and buy my home. I had no education and fairly **** paying job. But it got me through the 90s and beyond.

Good luck to anyone thinks that's possible nowadays. It's not. Our standard of living has nosedived. But Leo says fair play to vulture funds. That's our country now and that bollocks. He should be flung from a height. The amount of I'm alright Jack is a disgrace on this thread. We should be trying to make life bearable for everyone. But if your ok with your lot,, you're saying work harder? **** off with that ****e. Stop thinking of yourself, and have a bit of decency.

We should be making life more bearable for everyone but since the last recession we've become nothing more than economic units.

30-12-2018 1:57am

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The whole working hard thing didn’t go well for my sister, a qualified accountant who has never been unemployed, when she was standing outside her house two weeks before Christmas 2014 in the rain as relatives swooped in to pick up the family to put on couches in their respective houses. She’s now a Sinn Féin voter.

As for your claim that we all have to be experts to know when a system is broken or imperfect - we don’t.

im sorry about your sister that time.

that claim i didnt make? im ok with your rebuttal of it

mikeecho · 30-12-2018 1:59am

BBFAN wrote: »

Pull up the ladder. Typical Irish attitude.

Should I be sorry for getting an education, not wasting my money, buying wisely, and not going mad during the boom.
NO

Yellow vest movement ireland is the typical, won't pay, pay me, group of society.

Gimme gimme gimme.... fuppin leeches.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 30-12-2018 3:04am

mikeecho wrote: »

Should I be sorry for getting an education, not wasting my money, buying wisely, and not going mad during the boom.
NO

Yellow vest movement ireland is the typical, won't pay, pay me, group of society.

Gimme gimme gimme.... fuppin leeches.

Have you decided that because it's a protest and that's what ALL protests are in your mind, or was there some logic specific to this group behind your thinking?

30-12-2018 3:09am

Blaizes wrote: »

We should be making life more bearable for everyone but since the last recession we've become nothing more than economic units.

Yes, and one thing that is often forgotten is the benefit of automation which has completely passed us by, back in the 1960s, we were promised huge amounts of leisure time and well paid jobs as the "robots" would do all the menial factory jobs.

In reality, all the financial benefits of automation have bypassed the real economy and gone straight to the top 0.01% of the population.

If the 1960s utopia had panned out as promised, we would all be working only about 25 hours a week and have sufficient income to live as well as many in the 70-80% wage bracket today enjoy.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 30-12-2018 3:14am

mikeecho wrote: »

Should I be sorry for getting an education, not wasting my money, buying wisely, and not going mad during the boom.
NO

Yellow vest movement ireland is the typical, won't pay, pay me, group of society.

Gimme gimme gimme.... fuppin leeches.

They claim to represent tax payers - at least the French do.

30-12-2018 3:25am

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

They claim to represent tax payers - at least the French do.

The initial movement in France was a grounds up movement that started from nothing and did generally represent the "squeezed middle" group of taxpayers, it succeeded in reversing some of the Macron policies, but has since been taken over by the "usual faces".

UrbanSprawl · 30-12-2018 3:44am

I dont support these people disrupting traffic what does this achieve nothing ..costs money,actually makes thngs a little more **** for everyone gradually

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJOmo5X7iWU

Wheeliebin30 · 30-12-2018 8:29am

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The whole working hard thing didn’t go well for my sister, a qualified accountant who has never been unemployed, when she was standing outside her house two weeks before Christmas 2014 in the rain as relatives swooped in to pick up the family to put on couches in their respective houses. She’s now a Sinn Féin voter.

As for your claim that we all have to be experts to know when a system is broken or imperfect - we don’t.

Why do you keep saying qualified accountant?

Do you think she has some privilege and deserves special treatment?

Poor me....

Wheeliebin30 · 30-12-2018 8:37am

emo72 wrote: »

My income was enough to raise my family and and kids and buy my home. I had no education and fairly **** paying job. But it got me through the 90s and beyond.

Good luck to anyone thinks that's possible nowadays. It's not. Our standard of living has nosedived. But Leo says fair play to vulture funds. That's our country now and that bollocks. He should be flung from a height. The amount of I'm alright Jack is a disgrace on this thread. We should be trying to make life bearable for everyone. But if your ok with your lot,, you're saying work harder? **** off with that ****e. Stop thinking of yourself, and have a bit of decency.

Always find it fascinating when people in Ireland blame one man who is in charge for 1 year how their lives turned out.

It’s pathetic, grow up and do things for yourself.

Blaming “the man” for your situation when he probably wasn’t even born when you came into this world, I don’t get it.

We are a lazy self pitying poor me country.

emo72 · 30-12-2018 10:57am

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Always find it fascinating when people in Ireland blame one man who is in charge for 1 year how their lives turned out.

It’s pathetic, grow up and do things for yourself.

Blaming “the man” for your situation when he probably wasn’t even born when you came into this world, I don’t get it.

We are a lazy self pitying poor me country.

My life turned out great. I had an opportunity to work hard and buy my home. That's not possible anymore. And I'm not thinking of myself I'm thinking of young people growing up now.

Leo is the current, and one of the worst.

30-12-2018 11:00am

emo72 wrote: »

My life turned out great. I had an opportunity to work hard and buy my home. That's not possible anymore. And I'm not thinking of myself I'm thinking of young people growing up now.

Leo is the current, and one of the worst.

not possible?

theres huge amounts of people doing it. for gods sake lay off.

emo72 · 30-12-2018 11:08am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

not possible?

theres huge amounts of people doing it. for gods sake lay off.

What? Single person working a basic retail job buying a 500k house? Where are those people?

Galwayguy35 · 30-12-2018 12:03pm

P_1 wrote: »

Aye that's fair enough, you're content. Personally I'm not. I see incompetence everywhere. Waste in resources building houses, a government abandoning their role to the free market. Morons who think blocking the tunnel will change anything. A health service woefully resourced. Bogus self employment. Good people trying to do good things, hamstrung at every step.

The health service gets about 15.3 billion a year, for a country our size we should have the best service in the world for that money.

We can get rid of politicians come the next election but fatcats in the HSE with jobs for life are who is to blame for this one.

Allinall · 30-12-2018 12:31pm

emo72 wrote: »

What? Single person working a basic retail job buying a 500k house? Where are those people?

Who ever, anywhere said that was happening?

There are plenty of people working, getting and paying mortgages and getting on with their lives without whining and moaning and looking for someone to blame .

gandalf · 30-12-2018 12:57pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

The health service gets about 15.3 billion a year, for a country our size we should have the best service in the world for that money.

We can get rid of politicians come the next election but fatcats in the HSE with jobs for life are who is to blame for this one.

And the unions who protect them and middle management whilst the front line workers are on fixed term contracts and can be cut back to protect the administration jobs.

P_1 · 30-12-2018 1:03pm

gandalf wrote: »

And the unions who protect them and middle management whilst the front line workers are on fixed term contracts and can be cut back to protect the administration jobs.

That's the issue in a nutshell, we can elect whoever we want but without getting rid of the protected Sir Humphreys in the civil service and in jobs like middle management it will achieve sweet feck all. Quite a few of the overpaid union hacks should be told where to go too

Yellow vest movement ireland

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