Greatest Irish Fighter

ROCKMAN · 18-02-2007 1:07pm #1

Just finished that great thread Top 5 Fighters

So i was thinking who were the greatest Irish Fighters of all time???

To make the thread lets have answers in both Professional and Amateur game..

PS I am not on Boards long so if this thread was done before i apologise in advance

buck65 · 19-02-2007 10:37am

No. 1 Barry Mc Guigan
No. 2 Steve Collins
No. 3 Wayne Mc Cullough
No. 4 Mick Dowling

John Duddy and Bernard Dunne will hopefully fulfill their promise.
Honourable mention Eamon Magee - who could forget his fight with Ricky Hatton, Mike Mc Tigue also.

megadodge · 20-02-2007 11:58am

Off the top of my head, Jimmy McClarnin, Dave 'Boy' McAuley, Rinty Monaghan and (amateur) Michael Carruth (Olympic gold, World bronze) Fred Tiedt (Olympic silver, but was robbed) would have to be in the mix with all of the above. There's a few others but I don't have the time at the moment.

cowzerp · 20-02-2007 9:08pm

barry mcguigan
steve collins
ray close
sam storey
bernard dunne-amateur record awsome

walshb · 16-03-2007 3:50pm

There's only one candidate in the amateurs and that's Carruth.
Olympic champion, it does not get better than that.
He also won 7 or so Senior titles in 3 different weights.

The pro's are tougher to select, but Barry is my pick

dlofnep · 19-03-2007 11:21pm

McGuigan
Collins
MCullough

kanibus · 10-04-2007 6:09pm

Tommy Loughran:D

Best Irish American anyway!

Big Ears · 10-04-2007 6:51pm

One of our forgotten greats is Nonpareil Jack Dempsey(the man who the Manassa Mauler derived his name from) . He held a claim to the World Lightweight title and was dominant Middleweight champion of the World in the 1880's . He also unsuccesfully challenged for the World Welterweight title . Nonpareil unlike Loughran actually was Irish(born in Kildare) and died from TB at the young age of 32 . Some sources claim his original winning of the World Middleweight title was actually for the World Welterweight title(both boxers did make Welterweight) . Records from the time are quite sketchy and you won't see anywhere near his complete record on boxrec or other places .
Many considered him p4p #1 of his time .

Other Irish fighters that deserve a mention Peter Maher(Galway) and Paddy Ryan(Thurles) were heavyweight champions of the world . Neither were great and both fought in a time when a certain amount of wrestling was allowed . Both were destroyed easily when they met the true top class fighters(Bob Fitzsimmons and John.L.Sullivan) .
Tom Sharkey also was heavyweight champ , although of much better quality . However the way he won the title is infamous and undeserved . Bob Fitzsimmons knocked him out but referee Wyatt Earp ruled it an illegal blow and awarded the fight to Sharkey(as Earp had a vested interest on the bout) Fitzsimmons and his corner men were livid with Earp and were furiously protesting with him till he pulled a pistol on them ! . Due to the controversial nature of the bout and the return of undefeated champ James J Corbett , Fitzsimmons and Corbett fought for the title and Sharkey could not defend it . Sharkey was from Dundalk .

Mike McTigue(Clare) was a very good Light Heavyweight champ and defended against Loughran twice .

George Gardiner(Clare)was Light-heavyweight champ and a contender at Middleweight .

Spike Sullivan was World Lightweight and Light-Welterweight champion .

Jimmy Gardiner(Clare) held a claim to the World Welterweight title .

Jack McAuliffe(Cork) was a great Lightweight champion and retired undefeated .

Dave Sullivan(Cork) World featherweight champion .

Johnny Caldwell(Belfast) , World and European Bantamweight champ , beaten by the legendary Eder Jofre .

Ike 'Spider' Weir(Bangor) World Featherweight champion .

As you can seewe have a proud tradition of champions , but most of them seemd to fade away after 1905 and they have been few and far between since the 1930's . Even Irish Americans don't have the same influence anymore .

I have left out irish champions already mentioned aswell as some of the Irish champions from north of the border as I know less about them .

dlofnep · 10-04-2007 7:54pm

big ears, you're a walking encylopedia. lol

henryb · 10-04-2007 10:26pm

Mike tysons dad was irish, an irish construction worker ,
his surname was kirkpatrick. Its something Tyson never
cared to talk about, believe it or not. He went under his
mothers maiden name. If ya think about the names
Michael Gerald, there about as irish as ya can get.:D
Also muhamad Ali 's grandad was from clare.
Does that count.???
I suppose if they were footballers it would.:D

kanibus · 11-04-2007 1:15pm

Even if Tyson was 1/2 Irish he would still not be the greatest irish fighter!

henryb · 11-04-2007 7:03pm

kanibus wrote:

Even if Tyson was 1/2 Irish he would still not be the greatest irish fighter!

And which irish fighters would you rate ahead of him?

cowzerp · 11-04-2007 7:09pm

Exactly what i was thinking!
Maybe mcbride, he beat tyson!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kanibus · 12-04-2007 1:36am

henryb wrote:

And which irish fighters would you rate ahead of him?

Tommy Loughran

nacho libre · 12-04-2007 11:51am

I was going to say James Braddock but Tommy Loughran beat him;).

That recent film about Braddock is excellent.

henryb · 12-04-2007 3:09pm

kanibus wrote:

Tommy Loughran

loughran was born in the states and anyway his only real
succes was at light heavy.
Tyson at his peak would in my opinion would have destroyed
him. No question!

henryb · 12-04-2007 3:40pm

nacho libre wrote:

I was going to say James Braddock but Tommy Loughran beat him;).

That recent film about Braddock is excellent.

bradock could hardly cut it at light heavyweight and beat a poor
max baer to become heavyweight champ, lost half as many
fights as he won ,so could you please explain how you
think he could have lived with tyson at his best

And correct me if im wrong, but wasnt he born in the states as well?

nacho libre · 12-04-2007 5:30pm

henryb wrote:

bradock could hardly cut it at light heavyweight and beat a poor
max baer to become heavyweight champ, lost half as many
fights as he won ,so could you please explain how you
think he could have lived with tyson at his best
And correct me if im wrong, but wasnt he born in the states as well?

yes i'm aware he was born in the states and the fact Tyson would have knocked him out. I was posting it in jest really. The best irish boxer ever for me is Barry Mc Guigan.

henryb · 12-04-2007 5:34pm

nacho libre wrote:

yes i'm aware he was born in the states and the fact Tyson would have knocked him out. I was posting in it jest really. The best irish boxer ever for me is Barry Mc Guigan.

Sorry mate, i get a bit defensive when it comes to tyson :rolleyes:

Big Ears · 13-04-2007 12:18am

Just remembered one of the champions I left out , Eamon Loughran , WBO Welterweight champ from 1993-1996 .

henryb · 13-04-2007 6:24pm

Dont know an awful lot about Rinty Monagan myself,
but im surprised he hasnt got a mention.
Born in belfast and was undisputed flyweight champ
in 1949!

Big Ears · 13-04-2007 6:28pm

henryb wrote:

Dont know an awful lot about Rinty Monagan myself,
but im surprised he hasnt got a mention.
Born in belfast and was undisputed flyweight champ
in 1949!

Rinty got a mention in the third post , that's why I left him out . He used to sing 'when Irish eyes are smiling' after his victories and from what ive heard he was a great fighter . Probably top 5 all-time greatest Irish fighter(genuine Irish no Irish Americans that is) or at least top 10 .

kanibus · 14-04-2007 1:48am

henryb wrote:

loughran was born in the states and anyway his only real
succes was at light heavy.
Tyson at his peak would in my opinion would have destroyed
him. No question!

Yeah and prime 4 prime Loughran>Tyson
Im not talkin about Loughran vs Tyson at Heavyweight you ****ing idiot:mad: Im talking all time rankings..how come you never said that when peole were sayin McGuigan is the greatest Irish fighter??

because im sure "Tyson at his peak would in my opinion would have destroyed
him. No question!":p

ROCKMAN · 14-04-2007 11:21am

My thread is all about opinions, For me McGuigan and Collins have been the greatest Irish Pro's for the last thirty years,
The old time fighters, the likes of Rinty Monagen, Paddy Ryan , Jack McAuliffe etc their records/ achievements speak for themselves.
But I am making my decision on the fighters I have actually seen.

As for the Amateurs Carruth, Bernard Dunne and Neil Gough are the top three. I know Gough may surprise a few but is record and time in the game at all levels up to senior make him a worthy candidate.

Ps..
Big Ears WOW I bow and applaud your knowledge.:D

henryb · 15-04-2007 8:45pm

kanibus wrote:

Yeah and prime 4 prime Loughran>Tyson
Im not talkin about Loughran vs Tyson at Heavyweight you ****ing idiot:mad: Im talking all time rankings..how come you never said that when peole were sayin McGuigan is the greatest Irish fighter??

because im sure "Tyson at his peak would in my opinion would have destroyed
him. No question!":p

so could ya please tell me why you would "rank" loughran higher
than tyson in ANY division?
The reason i didnt mention mcguigan or any other non heavyweight
is for obvious reasons!!!
If you look your facts up properly you'll see loughran
once fought for the heavyweight title.
Any way were all entitled to our opinion but i think the
name calling is a bit out of order to be honest

henryb · 17-04-2007 6:52pm

Just thought of another one you could maybe add to
the list, Charlie nash from Derry!
Represented his country in the 72 olympics, but
was beaten by the eventual winner.
He went on to become the european lightweight champion
and went on to fight jim watt for the world title,
i think around 1980 or there abouts, because i remember
watching it with my dad. Watt beat him and was no mean
boxer himself.
Nash might not go down as the greatest irish fighter but
i just thought he deserved a mention, and also i know he's heavily
involved in the amateur game up in Derry!

hoooooooot · 24-04-2007 1:57am

mcguigan for me

sligobhoy67 · 01-05-2007 10:30pm

1. Vinny Feeney

nah - really heres my latest top ten (well I posted it on irish-boxing.com about last August but little has changed!). To be honest its not a great top 10 - Eamonn Magee is average, I've taken Wayne Mc out as I wouldnt like to see him fight again, McBride hasnt capitalised on a good win over a finished Tyson, Corcoran showed a lack of power in his last fight, Magee was totally jaded in his last fight and O'Hara will never even win a Euro belt never mind a true world title IMO

My top 10 is

1..John Duddy
2.Bernard Dunne
3. Matthew Macklin
4.Damaen Kelly
5.Neil Sinclair
6.James Moore
7.Brian Magee
8.Kevin McBride
9.Andy Lee
10.Eamon Magee

I would like to have Jim Rock on the list as he is very solid domestically, Michael Gomez/Armstrongs head is gone totally, I think I am right forgetting about the likeable Clancy brother who are based in Boston unless some of our Mass. posters know better, McCloskey is not ready yet, none of the 3 Hyland brothers are ready to be on the list, Andy Murray is close but doesnt make the list either but will do at some stage and fan favourite Robbie Murray deserves a mention but cant get on the list due to inactivity.

Big Ears · 01-05-2007 10:45pm

Damaen Kelly is retired now , shame really . He was brutally robbed against the Italian Simeone Maludrottu for the European title(in N.Ireland :eek: ) having thoroughly outboxed him and in the rematch he was doing okay until getting caught in the third and was stopped .

What really affected Kelly in his career was the lack of a S.Flyweight division in Europe , once he outgrew Flyweight he had to move on to Bantamweight . Although he won the IBO S.Flyweight crown off Jason Booth Sky announced soon afterwards that they would only accept genuine world title fights when it involves a 'world title' so this put to bed any hopes Kelly had of fighting at S.Flyweight . Which is a shame really as if he was to come back to boxing(which he obviously won't) he could still make S.Flyweight fine and he was simply too small to ever really be a Bantamweight .

walshb · 02-05-2007 7:49am

Big Ears wrote:

Damaen Kelly is retired now , shame really . He was brutally robbed against the Italian Simeone Maludrottu for the European title(in N.Ireland :eek: ) having thoroughly outboxed him and in the rematch he was doing okay until getting caught in the third and was stopped .

What really affected Kelly in his career was the lack of a S.Flyweight division in Europe , once he outgrew Flyweight he had to move on to Bantamweight . Although he won the IBO S.Flyweight crown off Jason Booth Sky announced soon afterwards that they would only accept genuine world title fights when it involves a 'world title' so this put to bed any hopes Kelly had of fighting at S.Flyweight . Which is a shame really as if he was to come back to boxing(which he obviously won't) he could still make S.Flyweight fine and he was simply too small to ever really be a Bantamweight .

I don't think he was too small. He was 5 feet6/7 which is perfect for Bantam. He just did not hit near hard enough in the pro's to be a real threat

Big Ears · 02-05-2007 5:40pm

walshb wrote:

I don't think he was too small. He was 5 feet6/7 which is perfect for Bantam. He just did not hit near hard enough in the pro's to be a real threat

Kelly was 5'3 1/2 - 5'4 , But yes you are correct that he didn't hit anywhere near hard enough to be a real threat .

cowzerp · 02-05-2007 6:03pm

Big Ears wrote:

Kelly was 5'3 1/2 - 5'4 , But yes you are correct that he didn't hit anywhere near hard enough to be a real threat .

Bigears im 5,7" and kelly looked to be more or less the same height as me whenever i stood beside him-walshb would know him also and he's similar enough height also!!

walshb · 03-05-2007 7:39am

Big ears, he is at least 5 feet 6 as I have stood beside him several times and actually fought him a number of years back. I was at most an inch taller and I am 5 feet 7 in my bare feet. Anyway like you and I said his power is what is his problem in the pro's. He hadn't the punch or anywhere near the punch needed to compete in the top flight

cowzerp · 03-05-2007 8:53am

walshb wrote:

I was at most an inch taller and I am 5 feet 7 in my bare feet.

O'k Bren im only 5,6" with my runners off-damn ya dont get away with anything around here!!

Big Ears · 04-05-2007 3:51pm

walshb wrote:

Big ears, he is at least 5 feet 6 as I have stood beside him several times and actually fought him a number of years back. I was at most an inch taller and I am 5 feet 7 in my bare feet. Anyway like you and I said his power is what is his problem in the pro's. He hadn't the punch or anywhere near the punch needed to compete in the top flight

Fair enough I was basing my opinion on Ian Napa supposedly being 5'1 and Maludrottu supposedly being 5'6 . I'm fairly sure Sky had him under 5'6 on their tale of the tape in some of his fights but can't remember what height they gave . Anyway since you have stood beside him you should be right(or are smaller than you'd like to admit

) .

sligobhoy67 · 05-05-2007 7:47pm

Big Ears wrote:

Fair enough I was basing my opinion on Ian Napa supposedly being 5'1 and Maludrottu supposedly being 5'6 . I'm fairly sure Sky had him under 5'6 on their tale of the tape in some of his fights but can't remember what height they gave . Anyway since you have stood beside him you should be right(or are smaller than you'd like to admit ) .

I wrote this page about about Damaen on wiki if you are interested in him please feel free to add to it.

p.s. to settle the discussion Kelly is 5'5'' (in his bare feet!) and yes his downfall was done to a lack of power which he didnt need at amatuer level - not to mention a crazy/ballsy decision to go to Colombia, being raped in the Answersontown Arena and a lack of decent opposition in Europe at his prime

el tel · 09-05-2007 4:34pm

In my opinion Damaen Kelly is technically one of, if not the, greatest Irish boxers I've ever seen. Anyone wanting to know how to box in a technically beautiful and perfect way need only watch a video of DK.

walshb · 09-05-2007 7:40pm

Yes Kelly is definitely one of Ireland's best ever amateurs. He did so well in big tournaments but at the very top he was kept at bay by some of the weights greatest in Romero from Cuba and Dzumadilov. I'll never forget watching DK in Atlanta 96 against Dzumadilov. Kelly tried so hard but Dzumadilov was just always a step ahead and barely broke sweat. It was strange to see Kelly, a fantastic fighter made look so ordinary. Had DK had a damaging punch he could have been so much better.

celtictiger · 13-05-2007 4:30pm

Seems no one remembers Sean Mannion....Fought Mike McCallum in 1984 for the Light Middle Title.....I would rank his abilities higher than Steve Collins (though thats not saying much) - Collins fought McCallum 6 years after Mannion fought him and even tho McCallum was an old fighter at the time he still managed to give Collins a pasting. He tried and failed for another title against an rather ordinary Reggie Jackson and guess what? He lost. He beat Eubanks who was clearly way passed his prime...ditto for Nigel Benn....his title defenses were a freaking joke. Neville Brown, Frederic Seillier, Craig Cummings???? Come on - it's laughable. He would have got his clock cleaned by any of the other champions out there...most notable Roy Jones Jr. Of all the decent fighters he fought McCallum, Kalambay and Johnson he lost. The only guys he could beat were over the hill and once he got the title he fought nobodies.

Kevin McBride OMG!!!

Big Ears · 13-05-2007 6:37pm

You make some valid points , Jones would have dealt with Collins easily and some of Collins defenses were quite poor . Collins was a novice against McCallum , McCallum may have been old(34) but he still had quite a bit left in him and was still a very good fighter .

Prime Reggie Johnson wasn't an ordinary fighter by any means , he took Toney to a very close decision and floored him along the way .

Then you skip from his mixed decision loss to Johnson straight to Eubank leaving out two key events , one that might even help your argument about how Collins wasn't great . He lost to Sumbu Kalambay for the European title and Kalambay was quite old at the time . With that said Kalambay was a brilliant fighter , even at that age .

Another key point you fail to mention is Collins winning the WBO Middleweight title(quite a lot of people forget Collins is a two weight title holder) beating Chris Pyatt . Pyatt had beaten Kalambay and was a very good fighter(although probably had been a better Light-Middleweight) , Collins hockeyed him .

Many say Eubank was passed his best(which he was) but this is often exaggerated quite a lot . Eubank was still only 29 and after his second lost to Collins he managed to give a good account of himself against Calzaghe(despite having to lose a lot of weight quickly) and even after that he came very close to beating WBO Cruiserweight champ Carl Thompson on 2 occasions . Eubank lost a close decision in the first fight after flooring Thompson and in the second he was ahead on the cards when stopped with a closed eye .

As for Benn , he hadn;t quite been the same since McClellan but he had only lost his title(WBC) a few months previously on a Split decision to Thulani Malinga , Malinga wasn't that great a fighter but he did manage to regain the title against the talented Robin Reid having lost it to the Italian Nardiello .
Anyway in the first fight Benn hurt is ankle just when Collins was getting to him and he couldn't continue . In the second fight Collins beat him easy .

megadodge · 14-05-2007 12:00pm

Seems no one remembers Sean Mannion....Fought Mike McCallum in 1984 for the Light Middle Title.....I would rank his abilities higher than Steve Collins (though thats not saying much) - Collins fought McCallum 6 years after Mannion fought him and even tho McCallum was an old fighter at the time he still managed to give Collins a pasting.

Seems to me somebody really dislikes Steve Collins and has let that ruin his judgement.

Ranking Sean Mannion's abilities above Collins is shocking.
Mannion's sole achievement is that he went the distance with Mike McCallum, losing every single round in the process (now that's what I call a real pasting). He proved beyond doubt that he had an excellent chin and that's it!
Name any fighter of substance he actually beat. Maybe In Chul Baek and that's it.

When McCallum fought Mike Watson (the same fella who beat a prime Benn and lost a disputed decision to a prime Eubank, then was pasting the same Eubank in the rematch until he got caught by that uppercut) and had a tough fight before finishing him in the 11th he was asked by an English reporter "surely that was your toughest fight Mike ?". His reply - "No, Steve Collins was my toughest fight". And that was when Collins had had only 16 fights !

He beat Eubanks who was clearly way passed his prime...ditto for Nigel Benn..

Eubank's last fight before Collins (UD over the dangerous Henry Wharton) was regarded as possibly the best 'boxing' performance of his career. And he was two years YOUNGER that Collins.

Benn was definitely past his best but was still favoured by many to win but in my opinion was made for Collins and would have lost at any stage in their careers. He was only six months older than Collins.

The only point I agree with you on is that Roy Jones would have beaten him, but there's no disgrace in that as I personally believe P4P Jones could have beaten anyone in history.

walshb · 14-05-2007 1:39pm

Big Ears wrote:

You make some valid points , Jones would have dealt with Collins easily and some of Collins defenses were quite poor . Collins was a novice against McCallum , McCallum may have been old(34) but he still had quite a bit left in him and was still a very good fighter .

Prime Reggie Johnson wasn't an ordinary fighter by any means , he took Toney to a very close decision and floored him along the way .

Then you skip from his mixed decision loss to Johnson straight to Eubank leaving out two key events , one that might even help your argument about how Collins wasn't great . He lost to Sumbu Kalambay for the European title and Kalambay was quite old at the time . With that said Kalambay was a brilliant fighter , even at that age .

Another key point you fail to mention is Collins winning the WBO Middleweight title(quite a lot of people forget Collins is a two weight title holder) beating Chris Pyatt . Pyatt had beaten Kalambay and was a very good fighter(although probably had been a better Light-Middleweight) , Collins hockeyed him .

Many say Eubank was passed his best(which he was) but this is often exaggerated quite a lot . Eubank was still only 29 and after his second lost to Collins he managed to give a good account of himself against Calzaghe(despite having to lose a lot of weight quickly) and even after that he came very close to beating WBO Cruiserweight champ Carl Thompson on 2 occasions . Eubank lost a close decision in the first fight after flooring Thompson and in the second he was ahead on the cards when stopped with a closed eye .

As for Benn , he hadn;t quite been the same since McClellan but he had only lost his title(WBC) a few months previously on a Split decision to Thulani Malinga , Malinga wasn't that great a fighter but he did manage to regain the title against the talented Robin Reid having lost it to the Italian Nardiello .
Anyway in the first fight Benn hurt is ankle just when Collins was getting to him and he couldn't continue . In the second fight Collins beat him easy .

Even though Eubank may not have been at his peak, Collins was always going to be a tough fight for Chris and probably would have beat him at any time because of Steve's damn awkward style and the fact that Eubank was at times one dimensional. Collins granite chin would always see him take Benn's and Eubanks best. So it's a matter of who is the hardest worker and Collins was. Benn and Chris were not Michael Nunn or Jones type fighters who could use speed, counters and movement to beat all styles or pressure styles.

sligobhoy67 · 14-05-2007 6:48pm

celtictiger wrote:

Seems no one remembers Sean Mannion....Fought Mike McCallum in 1984 for the Light Middle Title.....I would rank his abilities higher than Steve Collins (though thats not saying much) - Collins fought McCallum 6 years after Mannion fought him and even tho McCallum was an old fighter at the time he still managed to give Collins a pasting. He tried and failed for another title against an rather ordinary Reggie Jackson and guess what? He lost. He beat Eubanks who was clearly way passed his prime...ditto for Nigel Benn....his title defenses were a freaking joke. Neville Brown, Frederic Seillier, Craig Cummings???? Come on - it's laughable. He would have got his clock cleaned by any of the other champions out there...most notable Roy Jones Jr. Of all the decent fighters he fought McCallum, Kalambay and Johnson he lost. The only guys he could beat were over the hill and once he got the title he fought nobodies.

Kevin McBride OMG!!!

CT, to be honest I dont know a thing about Sean. Where was he from - I've checked his Boxrec page and it looks like he should have stopped fighting in 1986 but went on until 1993 - but hey I'm not the one whos gonna have to pay his bills!

Do you know where I can find more info on him?

henryb · 14-05-2007 10:29pm

sligobhoy67 wrote:

CT, to be honest I dont know a thing about Sean. Where was he from - I've checked his Boxrec page and it looks like he should have stopped fighting in 1986 but went on until 1993 - but hey I'm not the one whos gonna have to pay his bills!

Do you know where I can find more info on him?

Mannions a galway man originally, from the heart of the
gaeltacht in carraroe in connemara.
He emmigrated to the states i think in the late 70's
early eighties and learned his professional boxing skills the
hard way in America. He was as tough as they came and took
mcallum the full 15 rounds when they fought.
OK, he took a hiding, but hey, it was mike mcallum after all!!!
Liked a drink as well

sligobhoy67 · 19-05-2007 1:57pm

henryb wrote:

Mannions a galway man originally, from the heart of the
gaeltacht in carraroe in connemara.
He emmigrated to the states i think in the late 70's
early eighties and learned his professional boxing skills the
hard way in America. He was as tough as they came and took
mcallum the full 15 rounds when they fought.
OK, he took a hiding, but hey, it was mike mcallum after all!!!
Liked a drink as well

did he havea nickname? His boxrec record says he was based in Boston

celtictiger · 20-05-2007 4:37pm

megadodge wrote:

Seems to me somebody really dislikes Steve Collins and has let that ruin his judgement.

Ranking Sean Mannion's abilities above Collins is shocking.
Mannion's sole achievement is that he went the distance with Mike McCallum, losing every single round in the process (now that's what I call a real pasting). He proved beyond doubt that he had an excellent chin and that's it!
Name any fighter of substance he actually beat. Maybe In Chul Baek and that's it.

When McCallum fought Mike Watson (the same fella who beat a prime Benn and lost a disputed decision to a prime Eubank, then was pasting the same Eubank in the rematch until he got caught by that uppercut) and had a tough fight before finishing him in the 11th he was asked by an English reporter "surely that was your toughest fight Mike ?". His reply - "No, Steve Collins was my toughest fight". And that was when Collins had had only 16 fights !

Eubank's last fight before Collins (UD over the dangerous Henry Wharton) was regarded as possibly the best 'boxing' performance of his career. And he was two years YOUNGER that Collins.

Benn was definitely past his best but was still favoured by many to win but in my opinion was made for Collins and would have lost at any stage in their careers. He was only six months older than Collins.

The only point I agree with you on is that Roy Jones would have beaten him, but there's no disgrace in that as I personally believe P4P Jones could have beaten anyone in history.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that I dislike him....he used to annoy me with the crap he used to talk. I sparred with both of them many moons ago and tho Sean Mannion lacked any serious power he made up for it with some seriously fine boxing skills...he was pretty hard to hit (he had this unorthodox style of leaning back instead of slipping punches) and if you did manage to hit him you were'nt gonna hurt him - he had one of the best chins in the business. I nailed him as hard as I have ever hit anyone on one occassion and I think it took more out of me than it did him. Steve Collins was all over the place - he a had a solid punch but by no means explosive. He was fairly easy to hit - any boxer would have a field day. He was a proud fighter which led to his tenacity but any technical boxer with good legs would have a field day with him. Pound for pound I give the edge to Mannion.

Henryb - your correct he's from Galway but he's from Ros Muc not Carraroe. He won the Junior Irish Light Welter title in 1976 and took off to the states shortly afterwards. He did like a drink which was his downfall in the end - he returned back home a couple of years ago and now works around Galway.

megadodge he beat a number of damn fine fighters from the early eighties - maybe they were before your time....Jimmy Corkum was supposed to be the next biggest thing in boxing until he met up with Mannion...Nino Gonzalez was no joke (took Duran the full 10 rounds), Rocky Fratto was a big name at the time too...and that was some scrap. He fought for two rounds with a collapsed lung against Danny Chapman. He was beating Gary Guiden until a but opened up a cut and the fight was stopped....He lost a hometown decision to Roger Leondard who was Sugar Rays brother...lots of ability there

In Cul Baek was 26-0(26 ko's) when he fought Mannion who boxed rings around him. I watched him spar with Marvin Hagler, Tommy Hearns, Mathhem Hilton and many other names and he held his own beautifully - made me proud to be Irish I'll tell you. After the title fight he was taken on by Angelo Dundee who called him the "best kept secret in boxing" at the time. Lack of motivation was a big factor for him and he started to party a bit too much and after losing to Errol Christie and he went quickly downhill.....he quit drinking a few years ago and moved back home and reopened up a boxing club in Ros Muc.

Lucas10101 · 21-05-2007 1:54pm

Agree with that celtic tiger.....

henryb · 21-05-2007 8:38pm

Are you from that part of the world yourself celtic tiger? (rosmuc)
I boxed a few times myself in carraroe many moons ago,
and won a conaught title down there.
some hardy fellas down that neck of the woods!!

megadodge · 23-05-2007 12:54pm

Celtictiger,

It's obvious from your knowledge of his career that you're a close friend / aquaintance of Mannion's and I think that's what is definitely clouding your judgement. Mannion was a fine fighter and I am in no way putting him down when saying his achievements just flat out don't match up to Collins'.

You saw more of him than me so obviously I can't compare to your first hand witnessing of a number of his fights, but to compare the names you mentioned to the names on Collins' resume is really pushing it. And sparring is exactly that - big gloves, headgear, working on moves etc.

You can blame motivation etc. but to judge a boxer you have to judge him on what he achieved not what he could have achieved !

I'm sorry if I sound like a smartass, especially as I'm from the West myself and have a very healthy respect for Rosmuc boxers (definitely the most consistently physically tough boxers I've come across), but Collins' drive, determination, belief and pure stubborness made him achieve more than Mannion and that's why I rate him higher.

On a better note, I'm glad to hear he's stopped drinking. A former workmate of mine got very friendly with him when he spent 5 years in Boston circa. late 80's early 90's and he told me all about the last number of fights 'upstate' which were purely to earn some drinking money. I hope things have turned out well for him as he certainly came across as a very nice fella.

celtictiger · 26-05-2007 3:21pm

megadodge wrote:

Celtictiger,

It's obvious from your knowledge of his career that you're a close friend / aquaintance of Mannion's and I think that's what is definitely clouding your judgement. Mannion was a fine fighter and I am in no way putting him down when saying his achievements just flat out don't match up to Collins'.

You saw more of him than me so obviously I can't compare to your first hand witnessing of a number of his fights, but to compare the names you mentioned to the names on Collins' resume is really pushing it. And sparring is exactly that - big gloves, headgear, working on moves etc.

You can blame motivation etc. but to judge a boxer you have to judge him on what he achieved not what he could have achieved !

I'm sorry if I sound like a smartass, especially as I'm from the West myself and have a very healthy respect for Rosmuc boxers (definitely the most consistently physically tough boxers I've come across), but Collins' drive, determination, belief and pure stubborness made him achieve more than Mannion and that's why I rate him higher.

On a better note, I'm glad to hear he's stopped drinking. A former workmate of mine got very friendly with him when he spent 5 years in Boston circa. late 80's early 90's and he told me all about the last number of fights 'upstate' which were purely to earn some drinking money. I hope things have turned out well for him as he certainly came across as a very nice fella.

Nah - I don't think your a smart ass....we all have different opinions and methods by which we rate fighters. I'm not a close friend of Sean Mannions by any means...I did know him well in the eighties and you couldn't meet a nicer fellow which maybe endeared him to me. I judge fighters by who I think would come out on top pound for pound if they met in the ring and not by achievments.....I've seen ordinary fighters win titles by virtue of good management who on paper look like they achieved alot more than they did.

Neither Collins nor Mannion were highly exceptional in the broad scheme of things but as Irish fighters they were right up there at the top of modern day Irish fighters. Put both men in the ring when they were in their prime and I reckon Mannion would win on points. Also sparring maybe a training tool but let me tell you that apart from the added protection there's not alot of difference to the real thing when you step in with a pro that doesn't want to be made look bad by a no namer

megadodge · 27-05-2007 3:43pm

When I referred to sparring as being just that, I meant in relation to how well you said Mannion did in sparring against Hagler and Hearns. Paul Spadafora gave Floyd Mayweather a boxing lesson a few years ago in sparring (it's on video and I've seen it) but there's no way I'm letting anyone tell me he would beat Mayweather in competition.

Mannion never beat anyone of the calibre of Eubank or Benn. Collins beat both of them - twice. He also easily beat Chris Pyatt and gave McCallum a far harder fight than Mannion did and McCallum was a seriously skilful boxer.

I don't think either of us is going to make the other change his opinion, but I think that Collins would just outwork Mannion if they met.

Greatest Irish Fighter

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