buying a house that needs work v one that doesnt need as much

mkdon · 16-01-2019 8:53pm #1

Hi all,

probably a silly question and one maybe someone can assist with.

there is a bang average 3 bed semi house for 30k less in same estate that needs some work done to it. trying to work out if its worth buying the cheaper alternative or not

the work is the following:

1. new decent windows , doors, front door and side door.
2. boiler replacement
3. floorboarding thrououghout (approx 90 square metres)
4. some kitchen enhancements....

would anyone be able to give ballpark on the cost and the time frame would take to get this done?

trying to workout if cheaper alternative is better or nay.

any advice on this is welcome

lucast2007us · 16-01-2019 9:04pm

Do you know the BER rating of the property?

Aravo · 16-01-2019 9:14pm

mkdon wrote:

1. new decent windows , doors, front door and side door. 2. boiler replacement 3. floorboarding thrououghout (approx 90 square metres) 4. some kitchen enhancements....

1. 15k
2. 2-3k
3. 3-5k
4. >5k depends on changes. Granite work tops big bucks etc

I think I would go for the house with no changes required.

Black_Knight · 16-01-2019 9:35pm

Don't forget radiators and probably insulation (Based on what you're saying needs changing).

Aravo wrote: »

1. 15k
2. 2-3k
3. 3-5k
4. >5k depends on changes. Granite work tops big bucks etc

I think I would go for the house with no changes required.

One needs those big changes. The other needs less changes. I guess the question is, what is needed in the other house?

If the boiler, doors/windows are all fine in the 2nd house, how good are they? How efficient is the boiler? How good is the front door (new composite doors have great u values)? You can easily sit in a house that's fine, and waste money on heating because things "aren't that bad". Similarly with kitchens. Do you like the kitchen in the more expensive house, or it "fine" and "will do for now"?

We bought an old house that pretty much just need a lick of paint. We did have a few bigish things on our to do list (move & change the boiler, and put in a stove). But aside from those we've since changed radiators, sanded, stained and sealed the upstairs floors, insulated the attic, redone our driveway entirely, and we're in the process of doing up our hall and front door.

Black_Knight · 16-01-2019 9:39pm

mkdon wrote: »

there is a bang average 3 bed semi house for 30k less in same estate that needs some work done to it. trying to work out if its worth buying the cheaper alternative or not

Are they the same in every way, other than one being in better shape than the other?

Same size? Facing same direction (south facing rooms etc)? Same size garden (front and rear)? Same parking allocation?

Is the 30k more property a "turn-key", or does it need some TLC in areas also?

awec · 16-01-2019 9:40pm

For me, it would depend on:

1. Can you afford to invest in the works required (both in terms of money and the stress/time it will take)
2. If you did the works, would this then be a better property for you than the other house?

If the answer to either of these is no, it seems like the other house (the one in good shape) would be better, no?

jlm29 · 16-01-2019 9:46pm

Do you actually like the stuff that’s in the dearer house, or is it just in better condition? I’d prefer to pick my own stuff personally, if I’d be there long term. If it’s perfectly fine, but not necessarily what you’d pick yourself, it’ll be a long time before you can justify changing it (cosmetic stuff, obviously!)

enricoh · 16-01-2019 9:50pm

Was watching that eco eye yesterday and a couple were upgrading their ber d to an a, think it cost 60k iirc with government grant paying half of it.
Id go with the 30k less house n get it super insulated.
Should be on the rte player, worth a watch if u might be at the same craic.
Only problem is when you go rooting at a house there's always unforseen costs!

Black_Knight · 16-01-2019 9:51pm

enricoh wrote: »

Was watching that eco eye yesterday and a couple were upgrading their ber d to an a, think it cost 60k iirc with government grant paying half of it.
Id go with the 30k less house n get it super insulated.

Not sure what grant that is.

I know there was a Home renovation incentive to get the VAT back, but it ended 31st Dec 2018.

Topgear on Dave · 16-01-2019 9:57pm

How much time have you got on your hands? Doing up a gaff takes lots of time. You can save a few bob if you can do work yourself.

New composite front door is somewhere about 2-3 grand, heating could maybe eat another 2-3 grand depending on what needs doing with the system....

Take it from experience here, you can go through a surprising amount of money doing all these things.

Do you know any trades who can help? Ask around about prices and advice, it's a fierce hard question to answer on here.

Mrs OBumble · 16-01-2019 10:05pm

If they're in the same estate, they were probably built about the same time. One needs a boiler replacement now. The other one is likely to need it ... how soon? Yeah, I know they don't all fail right on schedule, but roughly similar.

lucast2007us · 16-01-2019 10:14pm

Black_Knight wrote:

Not sure what grant that is.

It's the SEAI Deep retrofit grant worth googling and having a look.

the_syco · 16-01-2019 10:30pm

mkdon wrote: »

the work is the following:

1. new decent windows , doors, front door and side door.
2. boiler replacement
3. floorboarding thrououghout (approx 90 square metres)
4. some kitchen enhancements....

AND THIS IS THE THINGS THAT YOU CAN SEE.

No, seriously. They're all things that you can see. But how much needs fixing that you can't see? I'm guessing that the house was rented, and whoever lived there thrashed it before moving.

Black_Knight · 16-01-2019 10:46pm

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

New composite front door is somewhere about 2-3 grand, heating could maybe eat another 2-3 grand depending on what needs doing with the system....

Quoted 1650 the other day for a composite door, fully fitted. If there's class to the side of the door I think they're around 2200.

lucast2007us wrote: »

It's the SEAI Deep retrofit grant worth googling and having a look.

Neat. Too late for us though. House was drylined when we bought it. I've done the insulation. We changed the boiler already and fossil fuels are exempt from Deep retrofit. Interesting though, if it's not cripplingly expensive.

Alf Veedersane · 16-01-2019 11:48pm

Black_Knight wrote: »

Neat. Too late for us though. House was drylined when we bought it. I've done the insulation. We changed the boiler already and fossil fuels are exempt from Deep retrofit. Interesting though, if it's not cripplingly expensive.

It wouldn't be ineligible on the basis that other works that have been done. It depends on the current BER and if it can achieve both an A rating and a 150 kWh/m2/yr uplift in the BER.

But yeah the fossil fuel heating wouldn't be funded.

0gac3yjefb5sv7 · 17-01-2019 1:34am

How much does rewiring cost at a ballpark?

4ensic15 · 17-01-2019 10:38am

Pheonix10 wrote: »

How much does rewiring cost at a ballpark?

5K

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 17-01-2019 10:51am

4ensic15 wrote: »

5K

That'd be at the low end I would have thought. You'll need to replaster and fix the ceilings and floors after too

Thoie · 17-01-2019 11:17am

Bear in mind if you're getting a mortgage, they may not include the "repairs" in your mortgage.

Let's say you're qualified for €230k, and the "good" house is €230k.

If you go to buy the other house for €200k, with repairs costing €30k, there's no guarantee that the bank will give you the full €230k on the mortgage. So unless you have spare savings, you may end up having to borrow the €30k for repairs separately, at a more expensive interest rate.

Alternative view:
I've no idea how much the repairs would cost, but even if they take the full €30k, there is an advantage of then knowing the new stuff is "done", and you get your own choice of doors/windows/floors, rather than someone elses's choice.

End of the day, you'll probably find the end cost is about the same for both houses, neither will be significantly cheaper. Dealing with builders and plumbers invariably leads to delays ("oops, we brought the wrong window, we'll have to order a new one and that will be another 6 weeks" or "I need a special part, I'll just run and get it, but while I'm doing that I'll get an emergency call and won't be back for 2 days"). It can be stressful, but you'll have what you want at the end.

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 17-01-2019 12:27pm

We bought the house that needs work in your situation op. Been a pretty steep learning curve for us and to be honest if I was to go back I probably wouldn't do it again. We were stretched a bit financially so couldn't do all we wanted right off the bat. If you have a spare bit of cash to do everything then I'd go for it. Factor in at least 10% on top for things to go sideways on you though. Older houses are fantastic for throwing up totally unpredictable issues.

Big advantage is of course at the end you've chosen everything and the house is completely to your taste.

Black_Knight · 17-01-2019 4:06pm

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It wouldn't be ineligible on the basis that other works that have been done. It depends on the current BER and if it can achieve both an A rating and a 150 kWh/m2/yr uplift in the BER.

But yeah the fossil fuel heating wouldn't be funded.

Our BER was E when we got the place, but they had no certification for the drylining so it wasn't included in the assessment. It certainly doesn't feel like an E rated house (other than the hallway, but hoping a new door goes a long way towards that).

I know we'd be eligible, but it'd be 2-3k down the drain on the new boiler if we were to do it. Probably wouldn't like the stove we've put in since it's solid fuel.

There's a few things we want to do: change front door, change back door, but not enough to bring it to an A rating, nor would we have the funds or need to bring it to an A rated house.

robp · 17-01-2019 5:04pm

Black_Knight wrote: »

Our BER was E when we got the place, but they had no certification for the drylining so it wasn't included in the assessment. It certainly doesn't feel like an E rated house (other than the hallway, but hoping a new door goes a long way towards that).

I know we'd be eligible, but it'd be 2-3k down the drain on the new boiler if we were to do it. Probably wouldn't like the stove we've put in since it's solid fuel.

There's a few things we want to do: change front door, change back door, but not enough to bring it to an A rating, nor would we have the funds or need to bring it to an A rated house.

A lot of people look to new windows and doors for improving BER rating but filling gaps in interior wall fabric is a lot cheaper because it is easy to do it yourself. This is especially true if you have old plasterboard. I am pointing it out as SEAI doesn't promote it like they promote attic insulation and renewables.

annoyedgal · 18-01-2019 4:00pm

We just bought a house that needed some work including a rewire and new floors. First of its very hard to get people to take on the job esp if its not a big job.
Secondly everything costs way more than you might think and there will be add ons! We payed around 7 k over budget which is probably not bad.
Had a rewire, big messy job. Involves chasing, plastering and painting. Our rewire was 7.5 k not including painting and plastering.
House will most likely need insulating, def money well spent. Lastly its a complete head wreck living through renovations. I was lucky as could move out with the kids to my parents for 5 weeks.
If i had the choice and children involved I'd take the ready to go house if its well insulated and you like the decor. Just my 2 cents!

Black_Knight · 18-01-2019 4:05pm

robp wrote: »

A lot of people look to new windows and doors for improving BER rating but filling gaps in interior wall fabric is a lot cheaper because it is easy to do it yourself. This is especially true if you have old plasterboard. I am pointing it out as SEAI doesn't promote it like they promote attic insulation and renewables.

Oh the internals are drylined already. 1 whole side of the house isn't though, so i'm thinking pumping it might be an idea. There's an individual grant for that too.

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 18-01-2019 4:05pm

Yeah actually that is something massive to consider. If you have to live in the house while the work is going on it could be a total nightmare. When we were having ours done the rads were all off the walls the back wall was knocked out and all the floors were up. Then it snowed for a week bringing everything to a total stop. If we had been living in it we probably would have frozen to death.

Cuddlesworth · 18-01-2019 6:18pm

mkdon wrote: »

the work is the following:

1. new decent windows , doors, front door and side door.
2. boiler replacement
3. floorboarding thrououghout (approx 90 square metres)
4. some kitchen enhancements....

Because like others said, its not just new windows/doors etc.

If your redoing the kitchen, ripping out windows and doors, replacing floorboards, then the most financially sound thing to do is renovate the house rather then trying to be selective about the bits that get done. The reasons for this become obvious, like when you cop those single glazed windows are not the reason the house is a icebox. Ripping back up the flooring later, because you need sockets somewhere, or a new pipe because its been there for 40 years, is just far more expensive in the long run. The new boiler just being more trouble then its worth, because the radiators and pipes are too old. Its really just like taking out payday loans, yeah you get it now but your going to pay far more in the long term doing it right.

So insulation, plumbing, rewiring ends up getting done anyway. And it costs way more because you are just ripping up things over and over again.

People don't factor these overall costs into houses where this was done vs doer uppers where the wiring/plumbing and insulation is 30-40 years old, at least in Ireland. Way more value in the house that had a 60k renovation recently, then the doer upper.

Chickarooney5 · 19-01-2019 12:02am

Finding this thread very interesting, and little terrifying at the same time! House hunting for the first time at the moment and, in the area we want to buy, most of the houses are doer-uppers (built circa 1945). The ones that have been renovated are mainly out of our price range.

On the plus side:
We have the option of staying with family while work is being done
A family member works in construction so has skills and contacts
We get to choose what we want

On the minus side:
We have a small budget for renovations (which would include works quoted by OP, plus rewiring)
Houses are fairly small/not too well laid out so we will want to knock down walls and eventually extend or the convert attic (if feasible) at some stage when we can afford it

By the sounds of things there is no getting around the expense/stress of a doer-upper but I think we have little choice!

annoyedgal · 19-01-2019 10:10am

We looked at loads of 1950s builds when househunting. Solid built houses with great gardens but had very little upgrading over the years. To be honest i count my stars now we ended up in a 1970s house with less to do as I'm amazing how expensive work is and how little your money gets!
We spent 30k plus on a basic renovation, some insulation and rewire, doesn't include a new kitchen or windows and no structural work. If we had bought an older house no way could we have afforded to modernise it.
Defìnitely get a builder in for an estimate before you purchase. Great that you have contacts! Also if you can do some yourself that's a big plus too. We couldn't!

Cuddlesworth · 19-01-2019 12:32pm

Chickarooney5 wrote: »

Finding this thread very interesting, and little terrifying at the same time! House hunting for the first time at the moment and, in the area we want to buy, most of the houses are doer-uppers (built circa 1945). The ones that have been renovated are mainly out of our price range.

This is a common problem. People have a budget and when buying houses, they go right for the very max in the "best area". Which means the worst houses in the best locations. I don't really have a solution for this.

I will say that their comes a point where your max is high enough that you can make better choices in the type of property you want to buy.

4ensic15 · 19-01-2019 12:39pm

The one thing you can't do with a house is physically move it. I have a relation by marriage who bought a house built in 1947. The house on one side is 1938 and on the other side 1954. All of the owners bought as is and a few years later did a big upgrade/extension. they now have high-quality houses in a high-quality area. It meant slumming it for a few years but all in all was way cheaper than buy in another area and try and move upmarket.

19-01-2019 12:50pm

We went with the advice of buying the worst house in the best location. Two houses came up in the area we wanted - both early 1970s, one which hadn't been touched since it was built and was a total refurb and another that had newer floors, kitchen, better windows etc. We went with the former.

We paid 40k less than our neighbour but ultimately we both ended up completely gutting the houses, completely refurbishing and extending. The extra money they paid for the better house turned out to be a waste as they ripped everything out in the end.

With regard to costs, everything costs more and takes longer than you will be told by architects and engineers when you are planning. Decide on what you want, put it to tender and don't deviate from the plan with builder as any 'extras' you didn't consider from the outset will delay the project and the builder can pretty much name his price.

We bought our house this time last year and hope to be finished in April. It's a long, often frustrating, process to refurbish a house, but in a few months we will have a house that we designed and one that suits our needs. It is in a great location and has a lovely garden and is far more attractive than similarly priced new houses in the area.

Good luck!

buying a house that needs work v one that doesnt need as much

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