Flybe on the brink of collapse

Tabnabs · 04-03-2020 3:36pm

Stumbling on from crisis to crisis.

Breaking: Flybe has told the government that it is running out of cash and will not survive until the end of the month. Airline has been hit by slump in bookings since COVID-19 outbreak. FlyBe says it needs a decision on its request for taxpayer loan of £100m “in the coming days”

https://twitter.com/ITVJoel/status/1235196161155387394?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

kevinandrew · 04-03-2020 9:01pm

It's looking very ominous for the airline tonight.

https://twitter.com/MarkKleinmanSky/status/1235279608804773889

Best of luck to them.

A Dub in Glasgo · 04-03-2020 10:06pm

https://twitter.com/PeterAdamSmith/status/1235302201851072513

Tenger · 04-03-2020 10:26pm

Willie Walsh made a statement yesterday about “state aid shouldn’t be used to allow weaker airlines to survive”
Could see IAG disputing any aid to FlyBE.

afatbollix · 04-03-2020 10:32pm

Glasgow airport has impounded an aircraft.

Also rumours that fuel trucks are not refilling planes.

Feel for the crews stuck around the country.

A Dub in Glasgo · 04-03-2020 10:40pm

Sheep Shagger · 04-03-2020 10:46pm

Seems inevitable they will be bust by the morning, read on twitter the last flight is due to land in about 50 mins and at that time it will be official

Locker10a · 04-03-2020 11:06pm

EI-GHK and GHJ on Flightradar24 now being positioned back to base, there were on lease to Flybe and stobart feared them being impounded

Donegal Storm · 04-03-2020 11:08pm

On BBC News now that they've already gone tonight

1wizards sleeve · 04-03-2020 11:49pm

What happens to future flights. Any money back

Darc19 · 04-03-2020 11:55pm

1wizards sleeve wrote: »

What happens to future flights. Any money back

From an airline that owes millions upon millions?
Not a chance.

But as virtually all tickets are paid by card, the built in insurance will ensure a refund via a chargeback

With the combination of negative publicity about their finances and the coronavirus causing a huge drop in travel, it was not surprising that they have gone bust

Sheep Shagger · 05-03-2020 12:29am

Website no longer working

www.flybe.com

Caranica · 05-03-2020 1:49am

Looks like my flights this year may be cursed. Due to go to Treviso in a fortnight and then had flybe flights to Cardiff in June booked. Doubt anyone will pick up the Dublin to Cardiff route

Thrashssacre · 05-03-2020 3:45am

Be interesting to see if aer lingus are interested in purchasing some smaller aircraft to expand routes from Cork to continental Europe or from dublin to a couple of regional airports.

cson · 05-03-2020 4:04am

That's a massive blow to NOC, based on Wikipedia info they flew 100k pax through there in 2018 which would represent 16% of annual passengers (from 2017).

That's 54 Dash 8's hitting the market too so I'd imagine lease rates for those will plummet.

California Dreamer · 05-03-2020 6:59am

Will have to wait-and-see if Ryanair and EasyJet step in to take over some of the routes.

Terrontress · 05-03-2020 7:38am

cson wrote: »

That's a massive blow to NOC, based on Wikipedia info they flew 100k pax through there in 2018 which would represent 16% of annual passengers (from 2017).

That's 54 Dash 8's hitting the market too so I'd imagine lease rates for those will plummet.

How easy is it for someone to pick them up cheaply and start to service Flybe’s profitable routes?

Terrontress · 05-03-2020 7:41am

Look at the departures board for Belfast City Airport.

If they’re not careful, they could follow Flybe into administration.

Noxegon · 05-03-2020 7:56am

Terrontress wrote: »

Look at the departures board for Belfast City Airport.

If they’re not careful, they could follow Flybe into administration.

Southampton Airport is even worse.

Terrontress · 05-03-2020 8:00am

What will happen to codeshare flights operated by other airlines? I see someone called Blue Islands operating flights with BE flight numbers.

PinOnTheRight · 05-03-2020 8:06am

Noxegon wrote: »

Southampton Airport is even worse.

Flybe were around 80% of BHD’s operation, and 95% of SOU’s

Belfast have posted a statement saying they are already in talks with other airlines, but even then I expect only a fraction of the 14 routes and the frequencies Flybe operates them at will ever be picked up.

Van.Bosch · 05-03-2020 8:35am

Dub SOU will be a big gap - EI regional?

Captain_Crash · 05-03-2020 8:44am

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Dub SOU will be a big gap - EI regional?

If it makes money it'll surely be filled. A family member uses it twice a week every week and was saying only the other day that its always full. Said one of the crew told her during the tax bailout issues a few weeks back that its one of their most profitable routes.

LXFlyer · 05-03-2020 8:53am

Terrontress wrote: »

What will happen to codeshare flights operated by other airlines? I see someone called Blue Islands operating flights with BE flight numbers.

Blue Islands are a Channel Islands based airline flying to and from UK airports which, after a franchise agreement were sold via Flybe’s website.

They will now revert to operating as Blue Islands flights once again - that will at least reduce the impact of the Flybe collapse on the Channel Islands.

Other airports such as Southampton, Exeter and Newquay are not so fortunate.

trellheim · 05-03-2020 10:29am

several companies based along the UK south coast have offices in Dublin

Also Exeter/Newquay is/was a lifeline airport into Cornwall/Southwest as it takes so long to get anywhere else and rail prices in the UK are eyewateringly expensive

The Nal · 05-03-2020 11:13am

So do I get a refund now for my September flights to Southampton or see if the routes are picked up?

L1011 · 05-03-2020 11:17am

The Nal wrote: »

So do I get a refund now for my September flights to Southampton or see if the routes are picked up?

Refund from card provider. If the routes are resumed by someone else they won't be honouring Flybe bookings.

un5byh7sqpd2x0 · 05-03-2020 11:17am

The Nal wrote: »

So do I get a refund now for my September flights to Southampton or see if the routes are picked up?

Even if the routes are picked up, your tickets are worthless. You'll need to do a charge back through your debit/credit card.

All the information you require is here - https://www.caa.co.uk/News/Advice-to-UK-consumers-following-Flybe-entering-administration/

Locker10a · 05-03-2020 11:18am

The Nal wrote: »

So do I get a refund now for my September flights to Southampton or see if the routes are picked up?

If the routes are picked up by another airline you won’t automatically get a ticket with them, if it’s another company (which it will be) you’ll have to buy a new ticket

The Nal · 05-03-2020 11:31am

Thanks folks

JCX BXC · 05-03-2020 3:51pm

Loganair picking up some of the Flybe routes from March 23rd, for example Aberdeen and Inverness from Belfast City.

A Dub in Glasgo · 05-03-2020 7:13pm

Good news for the Scottish airports

Loganair wrote:

LOGANAIR STEPS IN TO SAFEGUARD UK AIR ROUTES AFTER FLYBE COLLAPSE
Glasgow, 5 March 2020

Loganair, Scotland’s Airline, has reacted to the closure of Flybe by announcing plans to safeguard UK regional connectivity by taking up 16 routes formerly flown by Flybe. The airline will be adding nearly 400 new flights each week and has opened a special recruitment line for former Flybe employees seeking to continuing their aviation careers with Loganair.

The 16 routes – from existing Loganair base airports at Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Inverness and Newcastle – will be launched progressively over the next four months. Flights on the first and largest group of these key air routes will commence as early as Monday 16 March. All flights are already on sale at www.loganair.co.uk and via travel agent systems.

The routes are:
Route between Flights commence Lead in fare
One-way Outline of Loganair service
Aberdeen & Belfast City 16 March £ 49.99 Daily ERJ service
Aberdeen & Birmingham 16 March £ 57.99 Up to 3 x daily ERJ service
Aberdeen & Jersey 09 May £ 79.99 Saturday ATR72 service
Aberdeen & Manchester 16 March £ 57.99 4 x daily ERJ service
More seats with 4x daily ATR72 service from 1 September
Edinburgh & Cardiff 23 March £ 49.99 Daily ERJ service
More flights with 10 x weekly ERJ from 1 September
Edinburgh & Exeter 23 March £ 54.99 Daily ERJ service (excl Wed)
More seats with daily ATR72 service from 6 July
Edinburgh & Manchester 23 March £ 49.99 Up to 4 x daily ERJ service
Edinburgh & Newquay 20 June £ 69.99 2 x weekly AT7 service
Edinburgh & Southampton 15 June £ 54.99 Up to 4 x daily AT7 service
Glasgow & Exeter 30 March £ 54.99 Daily ERJ service
More seats with daily ATR72 service from 6 July
Glasgow & Southampton 30 March £ 54.99 3 x daily ERJ service
More flights & seats with 4 x daily ATR72 service from 6 July
Inverness & Belfast City 23 March £ 49.99 Daily Saab 340 service
Inverness & Birmingham 16 March £ 54.99 4 x weekly ERJ service
More flights with daily ERJ service from 23 March
Inverness & Jersey 30 May £ 79.99 Saturday ATR72 service
Newcastle & Exeter 6 July £ 54.99 Daily ERJ service
Newcastle & Southampton 23 March £ 54.99 3 x daily ERJ service
[Aircraft – ERJ is an Embraer Regional Jet with 49 or 37 seats; AT7 is an ATR72 with 70 seats; SF3 is a Saab 340 with 33 seats.]

All Loganair fares include a free hold baggage allowance, allocated seating and in-flight refreshments. Loganair is also one of few UK airlines to offer discounted fares for children and a free baggage allowance for infants, even if travelling on a parent’s lap.

Loganair’s Chief Executive Jonathan Hinkles said:

“The collapse of a long-standing airline like Flybe marks a desperately sad day, especially for the airline’s dedicated team of employees and for customers facing disruption to their journeys. By stepping in quickly with a comprehensive plan, Loganair is aiming to maintain essential air connectivity within the UK regions to keep customers flying, and to offer new employment to former Flybe staff members who are facing an uncertain future today.”

Customers formerly booked on Flybe services on the same routes will need to make new bookings at www.loganair.co.uk, and obtain a refund via their payment card provider for tickets booked with Flybe. In common with all other airlines, Loganair has no access to Flybe systems or customer data to be able to facilitate re-bookings.

Muahahaha · 06-03-2020 12:54am

Are Ryanair likely to fill any of their routes or is this too small a fish for them

JCX BXC · 06-03-2020 1:05am

Muahahaha wrote: »

Are Ryanair likely to fill any of their routes or is this too small a fish for them

Some possibly, however likely will be very few if any.

Van.Bosch · 06-03-2020 1:18am

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Good news for the Scottish airports

Where are they getting the aircraft to do that so quick? Leases or are they getting ex Flybe aircraft?

Inquitus · 06-03-2020 2:23am

JCX BXC wrote: »

Some possibly, however likely will be very few if any.

Aye most of the Flybe fleet are Bombardier Dash 8 Q400c's seating less than 100 passengers, unless the route has multiple daily flights or extremely high load factors, it's hard to see how a Ryanair 737NG could run most of Flybe's routes profitably given most of FR's 737-800's seat 186 odd.

L1011 · 06-03-2020 5:51am

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Where are they getting the aircraft to do that so quick? Leases or are they getting ex Flybe aircraft?

They have ATRs arriving with the intent of replacing the Saabs, I suspect they'll hang on a bit longer now.

Terrontress · 06-03-2020 7:43am

Inquitus wrote: »

Aye most of the Flybe fleet are Bombardier Dash 8 Q400c's seating less than 100 passengers, unless the route has multiple daily flights or extremely high load factors, it's hard to see how a Ryanair 737NG could run most of Flybe's routes profitably given most of FR's 737-800's seat 186 odd.

Belfast City to a London Airport? They’ve run the route to Stansted in the past and I think pulled out due to charges.

Belfast City must be desperate now, and Ryanair often takes others’ desperation to their advantage

PinOnTheRight · 06-03-2020 9:31am

Ryanair have pretty much got rid of all their UK domestic routes, blaming it on APD / unprofitable market / anything else under the sun. I can’t see them returning to it, particularly given the circumstances right now. Belfast City’s runway is more than adequate for the 738 on domestic routes and when they did operate there previously, the initial passenger cap was quickly scrapped and they filled the aircraft as performance wasn’t an issue for short sectors.

Loganair have undergone massive expansion in the last two years. They went from having no jets to 20 ERJs in 18 months, and are still finding their way with them. They’ll have been well aware of Flybe’s problems and already looked into what profitable routes they could operate should BEE go bust, hence have managed to act so quickly in releasing details. The 16 routes all start within the next four months, with stepping up frequencies and aircraft changes as the fleet changes continue.

Van.Bosch · 06-03-2020 9:39am

PinOnTheRight wrote: »

Ryanair have pretty much got rid of all their UK domestic routes, blaming it on APD / unprofitable market / anything else under the sun. I can’t see them returning to it, particularly given the circumstances right now. Belfast City’s runway is more than adequate for the 738 on domestic routes and when they did operate there previously, the initial passenger cap was quickly scrapped and they filled the aircraft as performance wasn’t an issue for short sectors.

Loganair have undergone massive expansion in the last two years. They went from having no jets to 20 ERJs in 18 months, and are still finding their way with them. They’ll have been well aware of Flybe’s problems and already looked into what profitable routes they could operate should BEE go bust, hence have managed to act so quickly in releasing details. The 16 routes all start within the next four months, with stepping up frequencies and aircraft changes as the fleet changes continue.

The speed and scale of Loganairs response is impressive

ExoPolitic · 06-03-2020 9:48am

There's nothing for Ryanair in flubes old network, or they'd of already out competed the off of it years ago.

BeardySi · 06-03-2020 11:36am

Terrontress wrote: »

Belfast City must be desperate now, and Ryanair often takes others’ desperation to their advantage

738 can't take off fully loaded from Belfast City, it's why Ryanair pulled out of there on the first place

BigMoose · 06-03-2020 11:50am

I hope someone takes on DUB-SOU soon as I use that route a lot. Prices are high and flights mostly seem fairly full. Lots of businesses (esp IBM) use that route instead of LHR so hopefully it's profitable or someone. That said, when the 4 of us travel and I'm paying for it, it's often cheaper to fly to Bristol and hire a car than the price of flights to SOU and get picked up by family....

Tabnabs · 06-03-2020 12:14pm

BigMoose wrote: »

I hope someone takes on DUB-SOU soon as I use that route a lot. Prices are high and flights mostly seem fairly full. Lots of businesses (esp IBM) use that route instead of LHR so hopefully it's profitable or someone. That said, when the 4 of us travel and I'm paying for it, it's often cheaper to fly to Bristol and hire a car than the price of flights to SOU and get picked up by family....

And a 2.5 hour drive don't forget. Gatwick would be faster, as would Heathrow.

BigMoose · 06-03-2020 12:22pm

Tabnabs wrote: »

And a 2.5 hour drive don't forget. Gatwick would be faster, as would Heathrow.

Bristol is only 1.5 hours to Winchester (where I'm actually going) depending on traffic in the town (airport on the wrong side of town), Heathrow always seems just as expensive as SOU and from what I recall Gatwick is well over 2 hours drive although it's been over 20 years since I last did that drive... Actually just looking at google maps there and gatwick is under 1.5 hours, guess the M25 has been improved a lot since I last did that trip

There is of course Bournemouth but no flights on a friday (when I last flew, I see that does change in April) and the timing of the sat flight makes that useless for a weekend visit.

Terrontress · 06-03-2020 2:27pm

BeardySi wrote: »

738 can't take off fully loaded from Belfast City, it's why Ryanair pulled out of there on the first place

Aer Lingus always seem to be fully loaded from BHD, is there a big difference in A320 and 738 in that regard?

I know that they were calling for an runway extension, but I thought that they could take off fully loaded if they are not fully fuelled. This meant more frequent refuelling which was was impacting profitability. The suspicion was though that Ryanair wanted to pay less.

I used to love the flight from STN to BHD. I regularly got it for £5 each way. A tenner for flights and then £30 on the Stansted Express!

Terrontress · 06-03-2020 2:29pm

BigMoose wrote: »

I hope someone takes on DUB-SOU soon as I use that route a lot. Prices are high and flights mostly seem fairly full. Lots of businesses (esp IBM) use that route instead of LHR so hopefully it's profitable or someone. That said, when the 4 of us travel and I'm paying for it, it's often cheaper to fly to Bristol and hire a car than the price of flights to SOU and get picked up by family....

I heard that SOU brings a lot of cruise ship passengers and these are the routes less likely to be reinstated quickly due to Coronavirus reticence to go on cruises.

PinOnTheRight · 06-03-2020 4:12pm

Terrontress wrote: »

Aer Lingus always seem to be fully loaded from BHD, is there a big difference in A320 and 738 in that regard?

I know that they were calling for an runway extension, but I thought that they could take off fully loaded if they are not fully fuelled. This meant more frequent refuelling which was was impacting profitability. The suspicion was though that Ryanair wanted to pay less.

Ryanair wanted a runway extension at BHD so they could launch European routes. When it was rejected, they cited that as the reason they were pulling out. There’s little money to made on domestics, particularly when selling £5 fares and the NI travellers tend to spend less onboard than the likes of those ex-London.

As for EI, what do you define as fully loaded? A full cabin of passengers to LHR on an A320 would give a take off weight well below that of an AGP/FAO flight since it’d only be carrying 5000-6000kg of fuel, and well within performance.

The AGP and FAO flights did have the odd performance issue during summer, particularly with full passenger load, high pressure, wet runway etc and needing 10/11/12000kg of fuel and made a stop in DUB/ORK on the way, but thankfully that only happened on a number of occasions.

Inquitus · 06-03-2020 4:21pm

BigMoose wrote: »

I hope someone takes on DUB-SOU soon as I use that route a lot. Prices are high and flights mostly seem fairly full. Lots of businesses (esp IBM) use that route instead of LHR so hopefully it's profitable or someone. That said, when the 4 of us travel and I'm paying for it, it's often cheaper to fly to Bristol and hire a car than the price of flights to SOU and get picked up by family....

I used to do DUB-SOU going to Basingstoke for business, much quicker than getting caught in the traffic around Gatwick. Flight was always full.

arccosh · 07-03-2020 1:04am

good riddance.. have taken the Dub to Sou flight a lot and flew a lot internally with them... absolute rip

Doubt Ryanair will go into SOU, but would love to see RYR up their flights in Bournemouth if they didnt.

Maybe Aer Lingus regional might take up the SOU slack, as they already do Cork

Flybe on the brink of collapse

Comments