Where would you move to if you had the choice in your 20s?

CBear1993 · 18-05-2020 11:27pm #1

Where would you go now if you had the chance with a partner, anywhere in the world.
Obviously for the purposes of this thread I’m talking about early 2021 - no move could be warranted at the moment.

I’m almost 27 and my girlfriend of 2 years will be turning 26 soon.
She has her bachelors and masters degrees in Biomed science.
I’m a QS/estimator in construction With a solid 6-7 years experience.

I’ve lived in Australia and England (midlands) for a year each, as well as Dublin for 2 years now.
She’s never lived abroad but has lived with me now for a year.

I just think we’ll regret it if we don’t with no children right now.
My girlfriend would be happy here the rest of her life but would move if I wanted to. I loved Australia, Sydney was class. But I was a single man there. San Francisco has always appealed to me but the rent is crazy. I don’t think London would appeal to either of us having been over a good bit.

Dubai is an interesting one but the culture is the big factor, we’d probably need to have a week there to see what we think first.

I own my own apartment in Dublin so there’s the matter of that, but also family. Both sets of parents are healthy and young enough, siblings are fine.

Curious to hear peoples trends on this at the minute. Canada was a big one over the last couple of years.

CBear1993 · 18-05-2020 11:41pm

CBear1993 wrote: »

Where would you go now if you had the chance with a partner, anywhere in the world.
Obviously for the purposes of this thread I’m talking about early 2021 - no move could be warranted at the moment.

I’m almost 27 and my girlfriend of 2 years will be turning 26 soon.
She has her bachelors and masters degrees in Biomed science.
I’m a QS/estimator in construction With a solid 6-7 years experience.

I’ve lived in Australia and England (midlands) for a year each, as well as Dublin for 2 years now.
She’s never lived abroad but has lived with me now for a year.

I just think we’ll regret it if we don’t with no children right now.
My girlfriend would be happy here the rest of her life but would move if I wanted to. I loved Australia, Sydney was class. But I was a single man there. San Francisco has always appealed to me but the rent is crazy. I don’t think London would appeal to either of us having been over a good bit.

Dubai is an interesting one but the culture is the big factor, we’d probably need to have a week there to see what we think first.

I own my own apartment in Dublin so there’s the matter of that, but also family. Both sets of parents are healthy and young enough, siblings are fine.

Curious to hear peoples trends on this at the minute. Canada was a big one over the last couple of years.

Continental Europe I’ve never considered. I suppose I could always trial it being in construction, a few weeks on and off somewhere first...

billy king · 18-05-2020 11:45pm

How would you work a visa for the US?

Australia is good, so is Japan with a huge economy.

CBear1993 · 19-05-2020 12:04am

billy king wrote: »

How would you work a visa for the US?

Australia is good, so is Japan with a huge economy.

Have a QS college mate over in New York at the minute. The big consultancies sponsor you for a few years. Not sure how residency goes- depends how valuable to them you become I suppose.

Australia is class but it is very far away. Unfortunately the whole of my home county and parish are in Sydney and Melbourne at the minute too which has made it a cliche over the last 3 years.

No idea about japan. Would feel a bit odd there? Or I’m underestimating the size of the expat population obviously in Japan

Queasy Tadpole · 19-05-2020 12:07am

If I was a young man again with the knowledge I have now I would choose either New Zealand, Canada or Germany.

I have lived in all three countries and they are all absolutely fantastic and offer so much more than Ireland will ever.

CBear1993 · 19-05-2020 12:23am

Queasy Tadpole wrote: »

If I was a young man again with the knowledge I have now I would choose either New Zealand, Canada or Germany.

I have lived in all three countries and they are all absolutely fantastic and offer so much more than Ireland will ever.

Which was your favourite? (Or can you pick). One of my regrets from my short time in Oz was not going over to see NZ. Everyone said the wages aren’t as good in NZ but the cost of living remains the same... I didn’t believe them, anyway money isn’t the holy grail!

Never been to Germany but have to visit. Is it easy to integrate into society there if you’re non German speaking ?

Few friends in Canada but know very little about it. I pondered a move to Toronto for a few months at one stage

ted1 · 19-05-2020 12:26am

I’d go to the Caribbean. Good work life balance

CBear1993 · 19-05-2020 12:28am

ted1 wrote: »

I’d go to the Caribbean. Good work life balance

Are you serious or is this a pipe dream ?

ted1 · 19-05-2020 12:31am

CBear1993 wrote: »

Are you serious or is this a pipe dream ?

Deadly serious, I’ve a few friends, and I’ve done a few months out there myself.

Queasy Tadpole · 19-05-2020 12:38am

CBear1993 wrote: »

Which was your favourite? (Or can you pick). One of my regrets from my short time in Oz was not going over to see NZ. Everyone said the wages aren’t as good in NZ but the cost of living remains the same... I didn’t believe them, anyway money isn’t the holy grail!

Never been to Germany but have to visit. Is it easy to integrate into society there if you’re non German speaking ?

Few friends in Canada but know very little about it. I pondered a move to Toronto for a few months at one stage

I'd choose NZ.

Germany you simply need to speak German, but that is the same in any country, you need to speak the language.

Canada is basically the USA but better, and easier to migrate to.

CBear1993 · 19-05-2020 9:13am

Queasy Tadpole wrote: »

I'd choose NZ.

Germany you simply need to speak German, but that is the same in any country, you need to speak the language.

Canada is basically the USA but better, and easier to migrate to.

Based on that I’d probably pick Canada due to the distance from home! Although it’s a massive country I wouldn’t know where to start.

James Bond Junior · 19-05-2020 9:16am

I live in the Middle East. I reckon there is about 5 years left before it won't be worth it anymore.

CBear1993 · 19-05-2020 9:17am

James Bond Junior wrote: »

I live in the Middle East. I reckon there is about 5 years left before it won't be worth it anymore
.

Interesting, whys that?

Is Abu Dhabi / Dubai still the main attraction for younger Irish ?
Know a few guys worked in Oman, have never heard any good recommendations about Saudi Arabia

Zascar · 19-05-2020 9:21am

James Bond Junior wrote: »

I live in the Middle East. I reckon there is about 5 years left before it won't be worth it anymore.

What makes you say that? I'm living in Dubai and love it. Sort of wished I had of come years ago but very much enjoying it for what it is now. I'm lucky as my job has me covering europe and africa also not just middle east. Obviosuoy current situation is disastrous for many but if you still have a job and not getting pay cuts etc it's still good. Rents are coming down and cost of living too.

What do yoou think will happen in 5 years?

ted1 · 19-05-2020 11:07am

James Bond Junior wrote: »

I live in the Middle East. I reckon there is about 5 years left before it won't be worth it anymore.

What’s your definition of “worth it?” Are you purely financially driven, or do you think the lifestyle will change dramatically over the next 5 years

ted1 · 19-05-2020 11:09am

CBear1993 wrote: »

Interesting, whys that?

Is Abu Dhabi / Dubai still the main attraction for younger Irish ?
Know a few guys worked in Oman, have never heard any good recommendations about Saudi Arabia

I’ve a few projects in Oman spent 60 days there last year. Think it’s a great place, much different than what you see in Dubai etc

CBear1993 · 19-05-2020 11:33am

ted1 wrote: »

I’ve a few projects in Oman spent 60 days there last year. Think it’s a great place, much different than what you see in Dubai etc

When you say projects are you in construction / property / engineering as well?

Mercury/sisk/Collen and the like, the big construction players here seem to be the only few who offer roles abroad. And it’s all data centres which I found personally very very boring.
Maybe better off going with a non Irish firm would you say? If I was to look.

ted1 · 19-05-2020 11:50am

CBear1993 wrote: »

When you say projects are you in construction / property / engineering as well?

Mercury/sisk/Collen and the like, the big construction players here seem to be the only few who offer roles abroad. And it’s all data centres which I found personally very very boring.
Maybe better off going with a non Irish firm would you say? If I was to look.

I’m an engineering consultant . We work with electricity utilities all around the world building power plants , Substations , SCADA Control Centres. , etc . So before my Oman projects I was doing a project in the Caribbean and before that it was Malaysia.

BailMeOut · 19-05-2020 11:52am

Hong Kong.

CBear1993 · 19-05-2020 11:57am

BailMeOut wrote: »

Hong Kong.

Thanks. What the attraction to it?

CBear1993 · 19-05-2020 3:49pm

ted1 wrote: »

I’m an engineering consultant . We work with electricity utilities all around the world building power plants , Substations , SCADA Control Centres. , etc . So before my Oman projects I was doing a project in the Caribbean and before that it was Malaysia.

Class. If only I could get girlfriend talked into that.

19-05-2020 3:56pm

I guess it would depend on your reasons for going.
Are they financial? Make an much as you can & come home after few years? Or would you like to actually live somewhere else, learn different cultures, languages, travel?
All depends on the reasons

CBear1993 · 19-05-2020 4:14pm

Financial would be a big player in it yes. Although I wouldn't be going abroad purely to make money and live in a cesspit or in the middle of nowhere it is important.

We'd almost definitely return home at some stage I'd imagine, but you never know.

In saying that I wouldn't move abroad to work every hour under the sun and not be able to enjoy the culture and have a decent work/life balance as well. Language I'd definitely be willing to learn, but we're the type that are quite organised. So if we committed to move somewhere it would be the case we'd look for 2 permanent type jobs and an apartment/house etc rather than travelling all over the place.

James Bond Junior · 19-05-2020 4:25pm

Sorry lads, I am in Oman, not the usual UAE answer. Expats are being forced out of jobs due to Omanisation of roles. The amount of skilled jobs available for foreigners is reducing, just this month a good friend was told his role doesn't exist anymore and as such the whole expat world is reducing.

James Bond Junior · 19-05-2020 4:27pm

ted1 wrote: »

I’ve a few projects in Oman spent 60 days there last year. Think it’s a great place, much different than what you see in Dubai etc

Brilliant place to live and work. Where were you? Have you seen much of a reduction with Omanisation?

Padre_Pio · 19-05-2020 4:29pm

CBear1993 wrote: »

Continental Europe I’ve never considered. I suppose I could always trial it being in construction, a few weeks on and off somewhere first...

I like the idea of the south of Germany. Warm summers, snowy winters.
Not too much of a language barrier.

You can drive to France, Switzerland, Italy, or wherever.

CBear1993 · 19-05-2020 5:23pm

Yea from what I see here the main southern cities are - Nuremberg, Munich, Stuttgart.

Widdensushi · 19-05-2020 5:27pm

Sweden,should have less of a recession than much of the rest of the world

CBear1993 · 19-05-2020 6:07pm

Widdensushi wrote: »

Sweden,should have less of a recession than much of the rest of the world

Thanks but no thanks

Was offered a post in sweden 3 weeks on 1 weeks off 2 years ago to build a data centre. Couldn't think of anything worse to be honest. I'd say rural Ireland is livelier. A lot of the lads who took up the post got their 3 weeks on, down to 1 week out there and 3 weeks here. Hated it.

Padre_Pio · 19-05-2020 6:46pm

CBear1993 wrote: »

Yea from what I see here the main southern cities are - Nuremberg, Munich, Stuttgart.

South west is wine and cider country, south east is beer country.

Take your pick

Jim2007 · 19-05-2020 8:56pm

Widdensushi wrote: »

Sweden,should have less of a recession than much of the rest of the world

Would you really want to live in a country where it is dark in the morning until at least 9:00am and get's dark again at about 3:00pm...

CBear1993 · 19-05-2020 9:01pm

Jim2007 wrote: »

Would you really want to live in a country where it is dark in the morning until at least 9:00am and get's dark again at about 3:00pm...

That would be absolute depression IMO . You’d need the SAD Lamp on all day

19-05-2020 9:02pm

That's the winter, Summer is lovely

CBear1993 · 19-05-2020 9:13pm

bubblypop wrote: »

That's the winter, Summer is lovely

Do ye need not blackout blinds then with it being bright to all hours in the north?

19-05-2020 9:17pm

CBear1993 wrote: »

Do ye need not blackout blinds then with it being bright to all hours in the north?

I guess you might!
I work shifts for over 20 years, so bright doesn't bother me!
But to be fair, winter is depressing.....

Jim2007 · 19-05-2020 9:29pm

It will be 30 years ago next month since I moved to Switzerland and if I had to do it all over again, I would not change a thing.

There are many reason why I'm happy here, in no particular order:

- It is not a consumer society, people are careful about their money and thrift is seen as a positive thing. The credit in credit card is the period between when you buy the item and when you pay the statement off in full at the end of the month. Every town and village has a second hand shop, it is the first port of call when you are looking for something.

- The work/life balance, is very good. Companies respect your private life and accept that over time is not part of the deal, nor is contacting you outside office hours or when you are on holidays etc... Yes people work hard, there is not much time for coffee breaks, hanging around the water cooler or socialising - you are there to do a job and that is all. Most people to not socialise with work colleagues and indeed is is common for people not to know people's first name. Generally speaking regularly doing OT is seen as a negative - you or your manager are not up to the job.

- The crime rate is very low, where I live people leave their doors unlocked from morning to evening and stuff never disappears if you leaving it lying around as most of us do. Five year olds walk to and from school every day etc...

- Excellent health service: waiting lists and people on trollies are unknown concept. I have had 4 occasions to go to the A&E and I have never been waiting more that a few minutes before I was seen by the nurse to kick things off. In fact on one occasion she was standing waiting for me to compete the registration form...

I used to think that the level of preparedness for disaster here was a bit OOT, but the last few weeks has changed my mind about that. Being told that we have sufficient supplies of all essential foods and medicines and that these are regularly inspected to ensure that everything is as it should be was source of confidence for many and discouraged the bulk buying seen else where. Yes it was tight on PPE and ICU beds, but it did not reach a critical level and steps are now being taken to rectify that.

Oh and I have by own nuclear bunker! It is a building requirement since way back in the 1960s or os.

Jim2007 · 19-05-2020 9:30pm

CBear1993 wrote: »

That would be absolute depression IMO . You’d need the SAD Lamp on all day

Yep I spent a few months in Copenhagen during the winter and while the Danes were great fun, never again.....

CBear1993 · 19-05-2020 9:45pm

Very very interesting!! Thanks for sharing. Out of interest which part of Switzerland are you in? And which are the main (best) cities for work - much like Dublin is the main driver here. Construction specifically .

ted1 · 19-05-2020 10:39pm

James Bond Junior wrote: »

Brilliant place to live and work. Where were you? Have you seen much of a reduction with Omanisation?

Generally work in Muscat with OETC, OPWP and AER, have done some work in Duqm. masirah Island and Musandam. In my industry it’s generally locals I’m working with. But talking to the other kitesurfers on the beach there a few moving , also several of the people I k ow working in IT it retail are being replaced due to Omanisation

How’s Things over there ? I had flights booked in March but moved them to July. Not sure if I’ll get back over them

BailMeOut · 20-05-2020 12:03am

CBear1993 wrote: »

Thanks. What the attraction to it?

Hong Kong is East and West in the same place. You can live a normal 'western' lifestyle and step in out out of the east at any time. Travelled there many times more recently and always thought I would have loved to live here when younger. Fantastic place.

Padre_Pio · 20-05-2020 12:09am

BailMeOut wrote: »

Hong Kong is East and West in the same place. You can live a normal 'western' lifestyle and step in out out of the east at any time. Travelled there many times more recently and always thought I would have loved to live here when younger. Fantastic place.

I love Hong Kong to visit.

I don't know what living there is like. Rent is extortionate unless you're in the New Territories, which is not Hong Kong.

CBear1993 · 20-05-2020 12:22am

Bit like San Francisco. Only visited it once for a month about 6-7 years ago and wanted to stay, except I couldn’t afford it as rent was colossal.

The best city in the world IMO, just pips Sydney.

krissovo · 20-05-2020 12:58am

I spent 8 years in Germany, in the north (Celle) for 6 and in Munich for 2. Didn't speak a word of German when I arrived but most companies use English for business. Munich was a great city to live but quite expensive however a view of the mountains and a short train ride to the slopes meant it was a very active lifestyle. Taxed like crazy plus medical expenses meant you will not get rich while on payroll. Germany is a great balance of lifestyle and you can get used to the strange "logical" rules.

I lived in Boulder Colorado for 2 years, amazing experience in a fairly liberal town. Great for earning money and out door experiences, similar to Munich but you need a car and the nice people to asshole ratio is quite high.

Singapore was a interesting 18 month stint but a sweat box, no need for weather forecasts its 31 and humid every day of the year. Great for earning money and the food is class but after 3 months its boring.

Alberta Canada was a fun 3 years in a place called Medicine Hat, 200 kms to civilization in Calgary but I loved Alberta. Moved to Toronto for a year and its like a decent America but not as good earning potential.

18 months in Zurich, Switzerland to me was like a prison sentence, rules and rules and even more rules. Similar to Germany but taken up 10 levels, living to apartment rules is similar to lock-down rules and add the most unfriendly people who cannot open up is not great. I earned bucket loads of money though, at least 5x the rate of any other country. Again a short train to the slopes in Winter but stupid rules on the slopes, plus if you want live with sunlight the price of apartments runs at about €4k per month, €2.5k a month will rent you a apartment that is in permanent shade all year due to the mountains.

CBear1993 · 20-05-2020 1:10am

Unreal insight. Cheers. Sounds like North America was your favourite anyhow?
Are you back in Ireland now?

krissovo · 20-05-2020 2:04am

CBear1993 wrote: »

Unreal insight. Cheers. Sounds like North America was your favourite anyhow?
Are you back in Ireland now?

Been back in Ireland the last 4 years, its my favourite place to live bar none especially semi rural with a short journey to a city.

America is too volatile at the moment with the trump administration and the idiots that it breads. Boulder when I was there just legalised weed and while it sounds good in principle the reality is that it really cheapens the place. You cannot walk the streets or sit outside and enjoy a meal without the smell. In your 20’s and when healthy its great but I was there at 40 and when colleagues at work came down with health issues who had to sell homes even with insurance and carry huge amounts of dept just to live the reality kicks in fast that the low tax and high earnings need to be put away for a rainy day.

Canada now was class, at your age I would stay and lay proper roots.

con___manx1 · 20-05-2020 2:28am

The winters are really shíte in Canada. I had a few different bosses while I worked in Vancouver and Toronto. Everyone of them was a ****in arse hole. I lived in Australia aswell. I found there attitude to work much better than the Canadians. I'd love to go back to Canada one day but not to the city's.
Just for a holliday in the wilderness😁

maninasia · 20-05-2020 2:40am

BailMeOut wrote: »

Hong Kong is East and West in the same place. You can live a normal 'western' lifestyle and step in out out of the east at any time. Travelled there many times more recently and always thought I would have loved to live here when younger. Fantastic place.

Hong Kong is a fantastic place but far more east than west. That's what is great about it. I'm a long term expat in Asia.
HK is changing rapidly due to political oppression and China is not friendly to foreigners now.

There are many fantastic places to live , work and travel in Asia . Especially the travel and getting out into nature .

I wouldn't generally recommend to the OP because of his need to find two jobs I also lived in Australia and loved it it's hard to beat .

In the end you choose a place where the two of you can get jobs with decent pay and you make the most of where you are for a couple of years. Sounds corny but everywhere really does have its pros and cons. If you ever fancied learning a foreign language or culture this is your big chance so think about it....

Or are you interested to explore and travel in certain regions of the world while based there...?

There's a huge difference between short term expats and long term expats/emigrants.

dwayneshintzy · 20-05-2020 2:48am

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I love Hong Kong to visit.

I don't know what living there is like. Rent is extortionate unless you're in the New Territories, which is not Hong Kong.

Why's the New Territories "not Hong Kong"? Of course it's Hong Kong! There's great public transport all over HK, bar Sai Kung perhaps. I've always lived in Kowloon, but would seriously consider New Territories in future for something a bit bigger.

dwayneshintzy · 20-05-2020 2:58am

maninasia wrote: »

HK is changing rapidly due to political oppression and China is not friendly to foreigners now.

Definitely a difficult 12 months in HK, but I don't agree that it's not friendly to foreigners. If anything, the recent troubles/changes have been far more problematic to locals than foreigners/ex-pats. What do you mean "not friendly to foreigners", like?

maninasia · 20-05-2020 3:44am

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

Definitely a difficult 12 months in HK, but I don't agree that it's not friendly to foreigners. If anything, the recent troubles/changes have been far more problematic to locals than foreigners/ex-pats. What do you mean "not friendly to foreigners", like?

I said CHINA. Things are going bad for foreigners in China and HK is partly an extension of that (and I love HK but hate what China is doing to it...I know it well for decades )

I wouldn't want to live in an unhappy Chinese controlled state personally but then again I am a bit biased.

sasta le · 20-05-2020 3:51am

Own a apartment out college 5 years jesus your doing well man

Where would you move to if you had the choice in your 20s?

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