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Gender Identity in Modern Ireland (Mod warnings and Threadbanned Users in OP)

12467…136

Comments

  • #152
    Gervais08
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭Gervais08


    Gruffalux wrote: »
    There are plenty of transgendered people who give their opinion on this matter. You can follow them and listen to what they have to say. I have for years.

    Examples
    https://twitter.com/DebbieHayton
    https://twitter.com/ScottNewgent
    https://twitter.com/FionneOrlander
    https://twitter.com/BuckAngel
    https://twitter.com/Rose_Of_Dawn

    You can read about the experiences of people who have experienced transition and then detransitioned here - https://www.reddit.com/r/detrans/

    Debbie Hayton is an amazing person to listen to, very interesting; funny; dry - could not recommend her too highly.


  • #153
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Hunky Monster wrote: »
    There are two genders.

    Man.
    Woman.

    And there are some people with a mental disorder who believe otherwise.

    It is not that simple Hunky Monster. Believe.

    I mean if life were that simple the discussion would not even be at hand?

    Transsexuals do not have mental disorders, some do , but being a transsexual does not mean you are suffering from a mental problem or disorder. It is not that simple


  • #154
    Gervais08
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭Gervais08


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    It is not that simple Hunky Monster. Believe.

    I mean if life were that simple the discussion would not even be at hand?

    Transsexuals do not have mental disorders, some do , but being a transsexual does not mean you are suffering from a mental problem or disorder. It is not that simple

    How many other genders do you - incorrectly - posit that there are ?


  • #155
    MEGA BRO WOLF 5000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,484 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    It is not that simple Hunky Monster. Believe.

    I mean if life were that simple the discussion would not even be at hand?

    Transsexuals do not have mental disorders, some do , but being a transsexual does not mean you are suffering from a mental problem or disorder. It is not that simple

    Then why do so many of them kill themselves after they transition.


  • #156
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    Gervais08 wrote: »
    Debbie Hayton is an amazing person to listen to, very interesting; funny; dry - could not recommend her too highly.

    A nice person. Debbie's wife's experience is very poignant too. She went through a bereavement essentially. And it is good that Debbie acknowledges that. Debbie also acknowledges the reality of biological sex.


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  • #157
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    km991148 wrote: »
    I am way more snarkily now :pac:
    meh indeed..

    I came in snarky - got hit with more (probably deserved) snark and somewhere in the middle tried to genuinely understand what people are saying.

    Can we actually discuss the thread topic now? Or do you want another round or two of this?

    I am discussing it. You said nothing about my point about self ID in the last post. So maybe respond to that?


  • #158
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Gruffalux wrote: »
    You may misunderstand the gender theory ideology at the heart of modern trans activism. There are no ''edge'' cases. Any exclusion tumbles the whole deck of cards. If you say let us deal differently with a self ID transwoman re prison or sport you have de facto undermined the existence of that person according to the theory. There can be no exceptions.

    I was going to reply to your first paragraph to say that any reasonable person can see that edge cases don't undermine or indeed affect the vast majority of transgender people but then I noticed that you'd done that thing I'd highlighted which was to use this to pivot into scaremongering about bathrooms and what not.


  • #159
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    It never ceases to amaze me how it is persons who are not transgendered that seem to have the most objection to it?

    If you don't have the mental tenacity, or capacity, to comprehend what transsexuals are going through, I fail to see why you are entitled to an opinion on the matter?

    By criticizing their existence and demanding that they adhere to their birth identity, or thus facilitate other biological boundaries, you are not fully understanding how a transsexual feels. In brief you couldn't unless you are a transsexual?

    I don't understand people who feel it is their right to impose their will or attitude on anyone else's? If you do not understand someone else, you certainly have no right to pass comment on their existence? This world is to be shared, the last time I looked around for a common consensus anyways.

    I think people should try to be more kind to others, rather than judging them and trying to itemize them. People deserve more respect, that includes transgenders.

    It is indeed shared. Rights come with responsibilities. Some rights that transgender people are asking for conflict with the rights of others. This is where it becomes the business of others. A vague “Awww, be kind” sentiment solves nothing.


  • #160
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    km991148 wrote: »
    A tragic case, no doubt.

    .

    Sure it's unfortunate but I really question what the poster was trying to convey by posting it.

    So they know or know of a transwoman who has left her wife and child. You'd think leaving your wife and child was an exclusively trans thing.

    The vast vast majority of people who have left their families are not trans.

    Knowing a trans person who has left their family most certainly does not mean they have been affected by trans issues.

    The sneery painting of the trans woman as abandoning her family to "go on a journey" shows the that posters true attitudes to trans issues.


  • #161
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    Chips Lovell wrote: »
    I was going to reply to your first paragraph to say that any reasonable person can see that edge cases don't undermine or indeed affect the vast majority of transgender people but then I noticed that you'd done that thing I'd highlighted which was to use this to pivot into scaremongering about bathrooms and what not.

    And your response to the girls in the developing world re Self ID?
    For these women, the risk of sexual assault is 40% higher than for women with access to sanitation facilities, according to a 2018 study conducted in the shanty towns of Kenya’s Mathare Valley. In India, this risk is as high as 50%.
    https://ideas4development.org/en/unexpected-link-access-toilets-womens-rights/


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  • #162
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    As mentioned upthread, currently there are two male prisoners in possession of GRCs being housed in Limerick’s women prison. One is a sex offender, the other has a history of violence towards women. To you, maybe that’s nothing. To me, it’s egregious. Are we waiting for something bad to happen? And self ID has allowed this situation.

    But who cares, right? It doesn’t affect me personally so why should I care. Right?

    You know nothing bad is going to happen. They have zero contact with the other inmates.


  • #163
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,408 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    You know nothing bad is going to happen. They have zero contact with the other inmates.

    Why is that?


  • #164
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Chips Lovell wrote: »
    I was going to reply to your first paragraph to say that any reasonable person can see that edge cases don't undermine or indeed affect the vast majority of transgender people but then I noticed that you'd done that thing I'd highlighted which was to use this to pivot into scaremongering about bathrooms and what not.

    Scaremongering? It’s not just bathrooms. It’s prisons, it’s hospital wards, it’s shelters, it’s communal spaces, it’s sports. Things that women had to fight for and that exist for a reason.

    And often, it’s men who shrug their shoulders and suggest that women just “be kind”. They have absolutely nothing to lose and social kudos to gain. Must be nice.


  • #165
    Gervais08
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭Gervais08


    Gruffalux wrote: »
    A nice person. Debbie's wife's experience is very poignant too. She went through a bereavement essentially. And it is good that Debbie acknowledges that. Debbie also acknowledges the reality of biological sex.

    She was horrifically abused on Twitter for calling herself a dad. She fathered children before her transition - of course she is a dad! And by all accounts an excellent one too!


  • #166
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    It is indeed shared. Rights come with responsibilities. Some rights that transgender people are asking for conflict with the rights of others. This is where it becomes the business of others.

    Your tone seems to assume that non-transsexuals have more rights than transsexuals, am I misunderstanding this ?

    Are you saying that they are not entitled to have their owns rights?

    Straight question by the way. What gives non-transgenders the right to assume the rights of transgenders? That is almost exclusivist, whether it is deliberate or not? What gives non transgendered persons the right to influence the future of a transgendered person? As I said, it is a very straight question?


  • #167
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    Why is that?

    Because they are extremely violent towards women.


  • #168
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Because they are extremely violent towards women.

    So men who are violent towards women housed in a women's prison just because they self identify as women.

    Dangerous violent men housed with vulnerable women.

    I'd call it crazy but it would be misconstrued as something else.

    Actually let's call it what it is "Sick"
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #169
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Your tone seems to assume that non-transsexuals have more rights than transsexuals, am I misunderstanding this ?

    Are you saying that they are not entitled to have their owns rights?

    Straight question by the way. What gives non-transgenders the right to assume the rights of transgenders? That is almost exclusivist, whether it is deliberate or not? What gives non transgendered persons the right to influence the future of a transgendered person? As I said, it is a very straight question?

    Give me an example. What rights do you think transgender people need to gain that don’t exist? The right to safe spaces? I think they should have that right too. However, that shouldn’t come at the expense of female only and male only spaces. And I wonder about the motivation of anyone who would object to the third space idea. Is it about safety or validation?

    I don’t know what you mean by “assume the rights of transgenders”. What do you mean by that?


  • #170
    Gervais08
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭Gervais08


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Your tone seems to assume that non-transsexuals have more rights than transsexuals, am I misunderstanding this ?

    Are you saying that they are not entitled to have their owns rights?

    Straight question by the way. What gives non-transgenders the right to assume the rights of transgenders? That is almost exclusivist, whether it is deliberate or not? What gives non transgendered persons the right to influence the future of a transgendered person? As I said, it is a very straight question?

    You are misrepresenting that post. Whether willfully or not I do not know.

    But here’s a take - a man declared himself a transgender woman and claims “the right” to be treated as a woman.

    However, a rape victim has the right to be seen only by a woman doctor, to be given her rape kit by a woman nurse etc.

    The rights of the former (the man) trump the rights of the latter (the woman) as she can can’t say “I want to be treated by another woman” - a rape crisis centre or hospital would be afraid of lawsuits or, God forbid, a Twitter campaign.


  • #171
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    I have to say it's nice to see the support for trans people on this new thread. I know they'll all eventually be chased away like in the old thread but for now it's quite lovely.


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  • #172
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Gervais08 wrote: »
    You are misrepresenting that post. Whether willfully or not I do not know.

    But here’s a take - a man declared himself a transgender woman and claims “the right” to be treated as a woman.

    However, a rape victim has the right to be seen only by a woman doctor, to be given her rape kit by a woman nurse etc.

    The rights of the former (the man) trump the rights of the latter (the woman) as she can can’t say “I want to be treated by another woman” - a rape crisis centre or hospital would be afraid of lawsuits or, God forbid, a Twitter campaign.

    Or a man rocking up to the coombe or Hollis st hospitals and demand a gynaecological exam of his penis
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #173
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    I have to say it's nice to see the support for trans people on this new thread. I know they'll all eventually be chased away like in the old thread but for now it's quite lovely.

    Another wind up
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #174
    Gervais08
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭Gervais08


    Gatling wrote: »
    Or a man rocking up to the coombe or Hollis st hospitals and demand a gynaecological exam of his penis

    Lady penis I think you’ll find ...!!


  • #175
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Your tone seems to assume that non-transsexuals have more rights than transsexuals, am I misunderstanding this ?

    Are you saying that they are not entitled to have their owns rights?

    Straight question by the way. What gives non-transgenders the right to assume the rights of transgenders? That is almost exclusivist, whether it is deliberate or not? What gives non transgendered persons the right to influence the future of a transgendered person? As I said, it is a very straight question?

    The conflict exists because of a difference in perception between gender based rights and sex based rights.

    According to gender theory if you identify as a man or woman than you are one. So if you are entitled to all the rights of that gender. You are entitled to participate in the sport of your gender for example.

    According to the sex based rights idea you are entitled to rights based on the sex you are rather than your gender. So if you are a natal man you shouldn't be entitled to participate in the sport of the gender you are but rather the sex you are. Regardless of where on gender.

    So it's not seeing somebody's rights as less then you, you are seeing it infringing on your sex based rights.

    If you see it based on gender then this doesn't make sense because your sex is less important than your gender. And you are discriminating against that person.


  • #176
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Gervais08 wrote: »
    You are misrepresenting that post. Whether willfully or not I do not know.

    But here’s a take - a man declared himself a transgender woman and claims “the right” to be treated as a woman.

    However, a rape victim has the right to be seen only by a woman doctor, to be given her rape kit by a woman nurse etc.

    The rights of the former (the man) trump the rights of the latter (the woman) as she can can’t say “I want to be treated by another woman” - a rape crisis centre or hospital would be afraid of lawsuits or, God forbid, a Twitter campaign.

    Yeah, I’ve said before in another thread that I am okay with being examined by either male or female doctors. That is mostly true but then I recalled that there was one time I did ask to be examined by a woman. What if that woman was male? A hospital patient is in a vulnerable position and should not be made to feel more uncomfortable than they already do. Would a person be made to feel guilty for not validating the identity of the doctor, even subtly?


  • #177
    Gervais08
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭Gervais08


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    The conflict exists because of a difference in perception between gender based rights and sex based rights.

    According to gender theory if you identify as a man or woman than you are one. So if you are entitled to all the rights of that gender. You are entitled to participate in the sport of your gender for example.

    According to the sex based rights idea you are entitled to rights based on the sex you are rather than your gender. So if you are a natal man you shouldn't be entitled to participate in the sport of the gender you are but rather the sex you are. Regardless of where on gender.

    So it's not seeing somebody's rights as less then you, you are seeing it infringing on your sex based rights.

    If you see it based on gender then this doesn't make sense because your sex is less important than your gender. And you are discriminating against that person.

    Put it better than I - thank you!


  • #178
    Rodin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    I never use the word 'gender' now.
    I use the word 'sex'.

    Can't be contested


  • #179
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    I don’t know what you mean by “assume the rights of transgenders”. What do you mean by that?

    What I meant is that your general tone is insinuating that non transgenders are somewhat different to transgenders and that coincidentally they have a universal right to decide on their future? I am not just talking about toilet facilities here either by the way, I think there are bigger issues at hand, particularly where it comes to gender identification and a humans' rights.

    Am I misinterpreting your tone in this instance? Please advise.


  • #180
    Gervais08
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭Gervais08


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    Yeah, I’ve said before in another thread that I am okay with being examined by either male or female doctors. That is mostly true but then I recalled that there was one time I did ask to be examined by a woman. What if that woman was male? A hospital patient is in a vulnerable position and should not be made to feel more uncomfortable than they already do. Would a person be made to feel guilty for not validating the identity of the doctor, even subtly?

    I imagine so. I’ve heard some horrific tales from women saying the cross examination in court by a male QC felt like being violated again.

    I can’t imagine how traumatic having your rape kit done by a large male bodied person who “identified as female” would be.


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  • #181
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Gervais08 wrote: »
    But here’s a take - a man declared himself a transgender woman and claims “the right” to be treated as a woman.

    However, a rape victim has the right to be seen only by a woman doctor, to be given her rape kit by a woman nurse etc.

    The rights of the former (the man) trump the rights of the latter (the woman) as she can can’t say “I want to be treated by another woman” - a rape crisis centre or hospital would be afraid of lawsuits or, God forbid, a Twitter campaign.

    Men and transgendered persons can also be the victim of rape.

    Are you honestly saying that only female doctors can treat rape victims?


  • #182
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    Yeah, I’ve said before in another thread that I am okay with being examined by either male or female doctors. That is mostly true but then I recalled that there was one time I did ask to be examined by a woman. What if that woman was male? A hospital patient is in a vulnerable position and should not be made to feel more uncomfortable than they already do. Would a person be made to feel guilty for not validating the identity of the doctor, even subtly?

    I think there's a lot of silliness around the doctor argument when you look at it in practice.

    You assume you can tell when a woman is trans by looking at them. Chances are you have already been examined by a trans doctor (ok chances are low but could have happened).

    It also begs the question will you assume a cis woman doctor with stereotypically masculine physical features is a trans woman and refuse to be seen by them. If you're unsure will you ask them?


  • #183
    Gervais08
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭Gervais08


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Men and transgendered persons can also be the victim of rape.

    Are you honestly saying that only female doctors can treat rape victims?

    If that is what the woman wants, then yes absolutely.


  • #184
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Are you honestly saying that only female doctors can treat rape victims?

    Seems to be standard procedure .
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #185
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Gervais08 wrote: »
    If that is what the woman wants, then yes absolutely.

    That is not what I asked.

    Stop deflecting please. What has rape got to do with a transgendered discussion for starters?


  • #186
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,929 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    My thoughts on this topic are simple..

    - A trans male/female is not the same as the "real thing" for want of a better term

    - Trans men/women on dating sites should absolutely disclose that upfront

    - Any ideology pushing on young children, or stuff like hormone blockers etc is the equivalent of child abuse and should be dealt with accordingly. Once someone is an adult and fully understanding of the consequences of these things then work away

    - You can believe and see yourself as whatever you want and that's fine - so long as you understand that not everyone will agree with your view and that is perfectly acceptable too. So long as they are polite and tolerant that's enough

    - Pandering like special bathrooms, sports, or stuff like the aforementioned prison situation are examples of ideology running into the brick wall of reality. In cases like that reality must always triumph

    - This is not America and we need to stop trying to transpose their identity politics and cultural/societal issues into a country like Ireland where they have no place


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  • #187
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Gatling wrote: »
    Seems to be standard procedure .

    where ?


  • #188
    Gervais08
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭Gervais08


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    That is not what I asked.

    Stop deflecting please. What has rape got to do with a transgendered discussion for starters?

    I’m not deflecting - there was a question asked about rights.

    I answered (you can read it above).

    No deflection, you just don’t like the answer as it doesn’t fit into your agenda.


  • #189
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Men and transgendered persons can also be the victim of rape.

    Are you honestly saying that only female doctors can treat rape victims?

    If that's what the rape victim wants then yes. That would also apply to a man who was raped.

    I would think the rape victim's feelings at that point would be more important than the doctors.


  • #190
    km991148
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭km991148


    Gervais08 wrote: »
    I’m not deflecting - there was a question asked about rights.

    I answered (you can read it above).

    No deflection, you just don’t like the answer as it doesn’t fit into your agenda.

    Not everyone has an "agenda".. (agender?? :pac:)


  • #191
    Gervais08
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭Gervais08


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    where ?

    You really don’t get that female rape victims aren’t usually surrounded by the sex that has just assisted them ?

    You must get that much ???


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  • #192
    Rodin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    I think there's a lot of silliness around the doctor argument when you look at it in practice.

    You assume you can tell when a woman is trans by looking at them. Chances are you have already been examined by a trans doctor (ok chances are low but could have happened).

    It also begs the question will you assume a cis woman doctor with stereotypically masculine physical features is a trans woman and refuse to be seen by them. If you're unsure will you ask them?

    Chances are the poster has never even met a transperson never mind had one as a doctor.
    The discussion around the topic is completely at odds with its prevalence.


  • #193
    ingalway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 656 ✭✭✭ingalway


    WhenPigsCry wrote: »
    That's just prison. A cis woman convicted of assaulting other women will be in a woman's prison. Why is that an acceptable level of risk for the other inmates?
    Because males offenders, no matter how they identity, still pose a far more significant threat to female prisoners due to their sheer biological strength and their potential to rape.

    95% of women in jail are committed for crimes such as shoplifting, failure to pay fines or handling stolen goods. ALMOST ALL WOMEN in Irish prisons are serving sentences for committing petty crimes, not for sexual and violent crimes.
    In 2019 185 males were sentenced for sexual violence, 2 women.


  • #194
    Gervais08
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭Gervais08


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    I think there's a lot of silliness around the doctor argument when you look at it in practice.

    You assume you can tell when a woman is trans by looking at them. Chances are you have already been examined by a trans doctor (ok chances are low but could have happened).

    It also begs the question will you assume a cis woman doctor with stereotypically masculine physical features is a trans woman and refuse to be seen by them. If you're unsure will you ask them?

    “Silliness” ?

    Around not wanting a violated woman to be examined a man ?

    Horrific.


  • #195
    Rodin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    ingalway wrote: »
    Because males offenders, no matter how they identity, still pose a far more significant threat to female prisoners due to their sheer biological strength and their potential to rape.

    95% of women in jail are committed for crimes such as shoplifting, failure to pay fines or handling stolen goods. ALMOST ALL WOMEN in Irish prisons are serving sentences for committing petty crimes, not for sexual and violent crimes.
    In 2019 185 males were sentenced for sexual violence, 2 women.

    Only females should be in a female prison.
    See? It's easy.


  • #196
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,669 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    People can identify as Barney the Dinosaur if it makes them happy, no skin off my nose.


  • #197
    Rodin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    People can identify as Barney the Dinosaur if it makes them happy, no skin off my nose.

    They can say what they like, but I don't have to agree that they are Barney...because they have none of the chatacteristic features of same.


  • #198
    ingalway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 656 ✭✭✭ingalway


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    What I meant is that your general tone is insinuating that non transgenders are somewhat different to transgenders and that coincidentally they have a universal right to decide on their future? I am not just talking about toilet facilities here either by the way, I think there are bigger issues at hand, particularly where it comes to gender identification and a humans' rights.

    Am I misinterpreting your tone in this instance? Please advise.
    What human rights do transgender people NOT have compared to other people?


  • #199
    ingalway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 656 ✭✭✭ingalway


    Rodin wrote: »
    Only females should be in a female prison.
    See? It's easy.
    Yes, only biological females, 100%


  • #200
    km991148
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭km991148


    ingalway wrote: »
    Because males offenders, no matter how they identity, still pose a far more significant threat to female prisoners due to their sheer biological strength and their potential to rape.

    95% of women in jail are committed for crimes such as shoplifting, failure to pay fines or handling stolen goods. ALMOST ALL WOMEN in Irish prisons are serving sentences for committing petty crimes, not for sexual and violent crimes.
    In 2019 185 males were sentenced for sexual violence, 2 women.

    Surely the prison situation has to be taken on a case by case basis.

    At one end of the extreme you have someone convicted of a crime (sexual or otherwise) and literally the next day decide to identify as a gender more appropriate to the opposite sex.
    At the other end, someone who has done so for years (taken hormones the lot).

    In the male to female case, surely then the strength argument etc doesn't apply (in the later case)?

    I would have thought this much is obvious, hence why I was talking about the difference between individual cases and generalisations earlier.


  • #201
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    According to gender theory if you identify as a man or woman than you are one. So if you are entitled to all the rights of that gender. You are entitled to participate in the sport of your gender for example.

    Can you give me an example of any sports where this is currently happening?
    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    According to the sex based rights idea you are entitled to rights based on the sex you are rather than your gender. So if you are a natal man you shouldn't be entitled to participate in the sport of the gender you are but rather the sex you are. Regardless of where on gender.

    Again this appears highly hypothetical, are their any actual examples of this happening?
    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    So it's not seeing somebody's rights as less then you, you are seeing it infringing on your sex based rights.

    If you see it based on gender then this doesn't make sense because your sex is less important than your gender. And you are discriminating against that person.

    NO, I massively disagree, everyone's human rights are unique and need to be respected. That is self explanatory and not open for discussion. One particular humans' notion about how the world should is not more important than anothers' , no matter what sex or gender preference they are. It is a completely separate matter. Every human being is entitled to rights.


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