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Cork I.T and I.T. Tralee PROPOSED Merger info

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  • 10-07-2017 8:19pm
    #1
    kerry4sam
    Registered Users Posts: 15,127 ✭✭✭✭


    Just an FYI thread on the PROPOSED Merger:

    Feel free to add in any relevant information you would like to share.

    Thanks,
    kerry4sam


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    #2
    kerry4sam
    Registered Users Posts: 15,127 ✭✭✭✭kerry4sam


    The proposed Munster Technogical University (MTU) is under investigation by the Public Accounts Committee (PAC), the Dáil spending watchdog.

    ...

    ...concerns expressed centred on:

    The inadequacy of the mission/statement;
    The “insufficiency of the costing of the plan”;
    The apparent absence of an adequate risk assessment;
    Conditionality and vagueness of the language in in important respects;
    The plan “implied an erroneous assumption” that simply achieving TU status would lead to additional research revenue

    ...
    ...near unanimous opinion of the meeting was that the proposal should be rejected”.
    In rejecting the plan at that stage, HEA board members stressed that the decision be cast in the light of “protecting the reputation of the HEA”.

    More/Taken from here.

    Thanks,
    kerry4sam


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    #3
    kerry4sam
    Registered Users Posts: 15,127 ✭✭✭✭kerry4sam


    Mod update:

    adding in --> Technological Universities Act 2018 <--

    and

    adding in --> this (merger nears)
    Both college's have been working closely together for the last five years to complete the merger and attain university status.

    Management at IT Tralee and CIT hope that the merger process will be complete and the MTU will be able to register its first students in September 2019.

    Thanks,
    kerry4sam


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    #4
    kerry4sam
    Registered Users Posts: 15,127 ✭✭✭✭kerry4sam


    Mod Update:

    Financial setback to the proposed Merger
    The Irish Times has previously reported that internal HEA records show “serious concern over the protracted funding crisis” at IT Tralee as well as alarm over the quality of information released by the institute over the scale of the problems.

    You can read more here

    Thanks,
    kerry4sam


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    #5
    imacman
    Registered Users Posts: 690 ✭✭✭imacman


    I think the whole structure of forced mergers for TUs is ridiculous and is a completely made up strategy with no thought or research put into how they will actually work .The genesis of TU mergers comes from Phil hogan who want to bring university to his consistency and wanted IT carlow bundled in with Waterford, it was totally political and nothing to do with education.
    Why should CIT take on the basket case that is Tralee where they will make up 80% of the merger and are in good shape financially while tralee is suffering from 10 years of over paying staff and declining student numbers .The only hope is Micheál Martin gets into government next year and he lets CIT go it alone to TU status without the milestone of Tralee around their neck.That would lead to WIT dropping Carlow like they were hot as the relationship between them is really toxic.


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    #6
    invara
    Registered Users Posts: 399 ✭✭invara


    Hi visitor from Waterford here.

    I read the panel's report available here: https://www.education.ie/en/Press-Events/Press-Releases/2019-press-releases/PR19-07-22.html
    From my reading of the report, the core finding of the panel was the criteria was not met on two metrics- number of research students and research-active staff. The way this surfaced is uncomfortable- Deloitte put in higher numbers in their report and invited the panel to examine the cases they were uncomfortable with.

    The other stuff- budgets, leadership/governance, and longterm plans are subjective, but the bid did not make the cut on the hard criteria. Oh but for the grace of trade unions was the WIT/IT Carlow bid not similarly mauled, as there are significant discomforts over the numbers (why 2015 Taylor report was withdrawn).

    The big question is ..... what now? The politicians got what they wanted out of TUs- to stall the growth of ambitious IoTs like Cork and Waterford, DIT got its recognition as being not like the other RTCs-IoTs...
    So should Cork and Waterford ask to push on for TU status alone and without the smaller less university like partners? Will the dept reheat it given the funding and political effort? Does anyone care.....


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    #7
    Tom Dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 23,212 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    invara wrote: »
    So should Cork and Waterford ask to push on for TU status alone and without the smaller less university like partners? Will the dept reheat it given the funding and political effort? Does anyone care.....


    Yes, people care.



    If the likes of Cork/Waterford were permitted to push ahead for TU status on their own, you would open a can of worms where other basket-case and unviable IoTs like Tralee engaging in delusions of grandeur thinking they too can become one. If that were to happen, the many inefficiencies in the current system (e.g. duplication of resources) would be perpetuated, undermining the very status of TU designation across the country. Everyone would lose in this case.



    Some hard decisions need to be taken on the likes of IT Tralee, GMIT Castlebar and Dundalk IT, but nobody has the balls to do it.


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    #8
    imacman
    Registered Users Posts: 690 ✭✭✭imacman


    Tom Dunne wrote: »
    Yes, people care.



    If the likes of Cork/Waterford were permitted to push ahead for TU status on their own, you would open a can of worms where other basket-case and unviable IoTs like Tralee engaging in delusions of grandeur thinking they too can become one. If that were to happen, the many inefficiencies in the current system (e.g. duplication of resources) would be perpetuated, undermining the very status of TU designation across the country. Everyone would lose in this case.


    Some hard decisions need to be taken on the likes of IT Tralee, GMIT Castlebar and Dundalk IT, but nobody has the balls to do it.

    Im sorry if you think the TU process will bring efficiencies and prevent duplication of resources you dont know the Irish public sector unions.

    Nobody will lose or change their positions and so you will have people with jobs that are no longer viable but continue because they are public servants and unremovable. ITtralee is already in a this situation with a massive wage bill of staff some of which have no role because of lack of student to teach.

    Merged TUs will actually be less efficient and effective than the current structures and the government has driven on with this with no consideration or plan for the IR problems that where inevitably going to arise.I think it will come to a point where the cost and upheaval of merging the institutes will become politically unpalatable and a decision will be made to let ITs go it alone and reach the criteria if they can. But I agree the basketcase and unviable ITs are a problem and local Tds will be jumping up and down to get them TU status with no consideration of the criteria.Then we go down the same road as the RTC to IT re-branding


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