Formula 1 2019 - Round 7 - Canada

pjohnson · 10-06-2019 4:10pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They have a rule book with available penalties for each infraction. They cannot make something up on the spot.

5s and 10s penalties are relatively new, they came in the last few years. They're a good thing overall; there have been incidents in years past where a driver has had to (very harshly) take a stop/go or drive-through for things like this because nothing else was available.

Shifting goalposts. There's not much love lost between Rosberg and Hamilton. He has had no problem siding against Hamilton in the past.

But they can lead to absolutely stupid shít like this. Vettel didn't choose to squeeze Hamilton his choice was either to try to get the car back under his control or just give up and see what happens (causing an accident that would have ended his own and probably Hamilton's own race anyway).

Are the Stewards trying to encourage accidents? A driver shouldn't be penalised for trying to control his car I mean that sure as shít beats the alternative of an out of control car on the track.

If Vettel was on track and just decided to squeeze Hamilton then yeah he deserves a penalty. But this choice was out of control crash for at least himself vs. controling the car.

I dont think Seb made the wrong choice.

micks_address · 10-06-2019 4:17pm

pjohnson wrote: »

But they can lead to absolutely stupid shít like this. Vettel didn't choose to squeeze Hamilton his choice was either to try to get the car back under his control or just give up and see what happens (causing an accident that would have ended his own and probably Hamilton's own race anyway).

Are the Stewards trying to encourage accidents? A driver shouldn't be penalised for trying to control his car I mean that sure as shít beats the alternative of an out of control car on the track.

If Vettel was on track and just decided to squeeze Hamilton then yeah he deserves a penalty. But this choice was out of control crash for at least himself vs. controling the car.

I dont think Seb made the wrong choice.

i don't think Seb was in control of the car when he came back onto the track, so the decision seems harsh in that respect.. could he have taken a different line and maybe not tried to get on the track as quick? maybe.. either way i think 1st or 2nd made feic all difference to sebs chance off winning the championship.. all yesterday did was relegate bottas to number 2 in tream lineup for mercedes so he's going to probably have to let hamilton pass him now etc if its an issue for rest of the year.. i wish the incident didnt happen as it would have been nice to seem hamilton at least try and overtake.

It was interesting on the podium and vettel telling the crowd to not boo lewis.. i wonder did he feel the same way after he heard Hamiltons radio request re unsafe rejoin as soon as it happened..

Vettel did come off like a child though at the end.. obviously they had a lot to loose if he didnt come back to the podium... of course he was raging but he came across as a bit of a baby

Frank Bullitt · 10-06-2019 4:24pm

I was loving that race...right up until the penalty.

Been a long time since I was cheering on a German in a Ferrari and it felt good. That penalty has really left a bad taste for a sport I truly love.

This was a really bad one.

devnull · 10-06-2019 4:37pm

Just seen Andrew Benson's latest piece on the BBC:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/48577539

Apparently what he is writing now, according to him on twitter, is fact and not opinion which is laughable because it is massively biased and is trying to present his opinion of fact.

It's a perfect illustration of why the U K is currently in the mess it is in, the feeling of superiority, the feeling that their people are better than everyone else and applying different rules to different people.

Any case, there's not much more to say on it other than everyone who didn't have a vested interest who was involved in F1 didn't agree with it. Rosberg still works for Mercedes so he doesn't count

If F1 isn't careful then we'll just end up the way it was years ago when Schumacher was dominating. Nobody will watch.

Joeface · 10-06-2019 4:58pm

other stuff from the race .

I know Renault team orders were to avoid any possible accident but is Riccardo slowly been considered the number one givin its now 6-1 on qual and Riccardo has the better finishes so far.

Big surprise was how poor Honda actually were in the race . Gasly was slow I thought but to my surprise commentary mentioned his lap times were on par with Max's for most of the race. Bit anonymous both of them during the race.

Sauber seem to be going backwards more and more as well as Haas . Looking like tough seasons for them as well . ( Kevin Mag qual accident asside they did look well of the pace of Mclaren and Renault) .

Stroll had a great race for his home GP , good pace considering he was using the older engine . Did Perez have damage after clash with Albon .

At the back ......Williams . I know the car is crap but Russell was almost a lap head of Kubica before the end . If they ever get the car even slightly more competitive is he actually going to hold it back . I may have missed something as in not sure if Kubica had issues but thats a extremely large gap if he did not .

10-06-2019 5:17pm

devnull wrote: »

Any case, there's not much more to say on it other than everyone who didn't have a vested interest who was involved in F1 didn't agree with it. Rosberg still works for Mercedes so he doesn't count

That's not true.

You can argue that everybody has a vested interest. We all want a better season. The drivers who work for Sky, perhaps they want controversy. Some drivers dislike Hamilton. Some drivers have come off on the wrong side of a similar situation (eg Ricciardo) so it's more tit-for-tat than objective analysis.

You can say that Rosberg is biased towards Mercedes. But I can say he has a history with Hamilton.

Max Chilton is confident tha Vettel could have rejoined safely if he truly wanted to. What's his bias?

https://twitter.com/maxchilton/status/1137809573253931009

Damon Hill said he "could have left more room". He is disappointed with the penalty but who is to blame for that? Vettel was the one in the cockpit.

https://twitter.com/HillF1/status/1137812958699020288

meeeeh · 10-06-2019 5:59pm

I think Max Chilton said he could not or am I reading the tweet wrong?

chicorytip · 10-06-2019 6:02pm

Deleted User wrote:

Max Chilton is confident tha Vettel could have rejoined safely if he truly wanted to. What's his bias?

There was an element of "thou shalt not pass" about Vettel's driving. He is a vastly skilful and experienced racer and could have corrected his "drift", let's call it, sooner.
One thing is certain - if this had been an incident involving Magnussen and Giovinazzi or any of the other lesser lights it would have scarcely rated a mention.

pjohnson · 10-06-2019 6:06pm

chicorytip wrote: »

There was an element of "thou shalt not pass" about Vettel's driving. He is a vastly skilful and experienced racer and could have corrected his "drift", let's call it, sooner.
One thing is certain - if this had been an incident involving Magnussen and Giovinazzi or any of the other lesser lights it would have scarcely rated a mention.

Unless he is a wizard he isnt gunna magic those tyres up some instant grip.

skipper_G · 10-06-2019 6:48pm

pjohnson wrote: »

Unless he is a wizard he isnt gunna magic those tyres up some instant grip.

Don't ya know there's clearly tons of grip on the grass, he's a robot not a human being, he has plenty of time to make decisions in the 0.whatever seconds he had available.

am i bovvered · 10-06-2019 8:01pm

pjohnson wrote: »

Please answer am i bovvered and those agreeing with penalty. What was the alternative other than hands up shouting "jesus take the wheel"?

Sorry, had to go to work.

The simple point I’m making is that Vettel made an unforced error, left the track and re-entered impeding another driver. IMO that deserved a 5 second penalty.
That’s my opinion on the incident.

I’m not a Hamilton fan (although I do think he is the most talented driver)

Burkie1203 · 10-06-2019 9:29pm

am i bovvered wrote: »

Sorry, had to go to work.

The simple point I’m making is that Vettel made an unforced error, left the track and re-entered impeding another driver. IMO that deserved a 5 second penalty.
That’s my opinion on the incident.

I’m not a Hamilton fan (although I do think he is the most talented driver)

Two former F1 drivers, including a former world champion. It's pretty clear Vettel did nothing wrong.

https://twitter.com/SkySportsF1/status/1138113592790851587?s=19

11-06-2019 8:44am

meeeeh wrote: »

I think Max Chilton said he could not or am I reading the tweet wrong?

You're reading it wrong but to be fair his grammar is not great. He is that saying Vettel didn't have to go back to power. Basically that Vettel was not as much of a passenger as he is trying to portray.

Joylon Palmer said essentially the same thing in a BBC piece. That Vettel is being disingenuous with his 'grass on my tyres' comments and was in more control than he is letting on. A sideways car is not out of control, if you put it sideways yourself.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/48583803

meeeeh · 11-06-2019 9:39am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You're reading it wrong but to be fair his grammar is not great. He is that saying Vettel didn't have to go back to power. Basically that Vettel was not as much of a passenger as he is

But that's not seeing it from both sides as Max Chilton says. I think you are reading it the way you want to read it not the way it was intended.

eagle eye · 11-06-2019 9:54am

It doesn't matter anyway because the sport is dying I think. There are a lot of former diehard fans who don't watch it anymore.
I've always been a motor racing nut. I watch Nascar, Indycar, Motogp, British Superbikes and that includes the lower levels of those sports. Its rare I watch formula 1 anymore and it was my no.1 for a long time.

patmahe · 11-06-2019 10:20am

eagle eye wrote: »

It doesn't matter anyway because the sport is dying I think. There are a lot of former diehard fans who don't watch it anymore.
I've always been a motor racing nut. I watch Nascar, Indycar, Motogp, British Superbikes and that includes the lower levels of those sports. Its rare I watch formula 1 anymore and it was my no.1 for a long time.

The move to sky has done a lot to kill it off, channel 4 do a great job of the highlights package given the restrictions they have to work to but its not the same as watching strategies unfold, keeping an eye on your favourite driver/team's progress throughout etc...

I am a die hard fan, but for what you get with formula one it simply isn't worth the money (to me anyway) that sky charge. So the sport is slowly bleeding away its die hard fans and no new fans will pay a premium to see if they like it, who will be watching it in 10 years?

To be honest I'm finding having my Sunday afternoons free up liberating rather than missing F1, which makes me sad for my sport.

The shambles on Sunday was another nail in the coffin. Two multiple world champions going at it hammer and tongs lap after lap and what do the FIA do, ruin it by issuing a very questionable penalty. They are their own worst enemies, I hope the drivers tear them a new one at the drivers briefing at the next race. We want RACING not bureaucracy.

flazio · 13-06-2019 11:00pm

Well well, we have an ex driver who agrees with the penalty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA3ppfFRq4o

pjohnson · 13-06-2019 11:09pm

flazio wrote: »

Well well, we have an ex driver who agrees with the penalty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA3ppfFRq4o

And an 2 time world champ who doesnt (Mika Hakinnen)

https://motorsportweek.com/news/id/23190

the_pen_turner · 13-06-2019 11:12pm

pjohnson wrote: »

And an 2 time world champ who doesnt (Mika Hakinnen)

https://motorsportweek.com/news/id/23190

as do 4 times champs hamilton and vettel

pjohnson · 13-06-2019 11:18pm

the_pen_turner wrote: »

as do 4 times champs hamilton and vettel

Button aswell.

Adamocovic · 14-06-2019 8:37am

Whether or not it was a penalty is open to debate, won't get much out of debating it now, does think it shows that either they allow drivers/teams to appeal decisions like this or have to become more lenient to racing matters.

On Palmer and his analysis, I'd take it with a pinch of salt. He's made his punditry career by being controversial and going against the general consesus of the rest. He uses language and opinions to cause a stir. That coupled with articles he's written in the past about Vettel being an amateur makes me less likely to take his opinions as nothing more than an attempt to stir up and gain views.

Ghost Train · 19-06-2019 10:34pm

They should let the public vote when there is a racing incident being reviewed... maybe give the public a 33%-66% input into which driver gets the penalty when an incident happens :pac:

Formula 1 2019 - Round 7 - Canada

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