Abdur Rashid refuses to apologise to 6 year old that he abused.

gozunda · 27-11-2018 6:23pm

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Has this phrase ever actually been used non-sarcastically by someone not right wing?

I've seen it often enough tbh

eg see:

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/press-centre/press-releases/20180926-leas-chathaoirleach-launches-45-stories-exhibition-in-leinster-house-highlighting-eu-benefits-to-ireland/

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/1916-2016-a-proclamation-for-our-age-1.2587004

Sometime used interchangeably with the term 'diversity' ....

Yer Da sells Avon · 27-11-2018 7:07pm

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Has this phrase ever actually been used non-sarcastically by someone not right wing?

Seems to be one of their go-to phrases nowadays, whenever a crime is committed by someone who belongs to whichever group they happen to be hating at that particular moment in time.

gozunda · 27-11-2018 7:46pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Seems to be one of their go-to phrases nowadays, whenever a crime is committed by someone who belongs to whichever group they happen to be hating at that particular moment in time.

Doesn't sound much better no matter which group is using it imo.

John Sacrimoni · 27-11-2018 7:46pm

gozunda wrote: »

I've seen it often enough tbh

eg see:

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/press-centre/press-releases/20180926-leas-chathaoirleach-launches-45-stories-exhibition-in-leinster-house-highlighting-eu-benefits-to-ireland/

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/1916-2016-a-proclamation-for-our-age-1.2587004

Sometime used interchangeably with the term 'diversity' ....

That'll be a yes then.

up for anything · 27-11-2018 8:12pm

AH is full of Russian bots registered in the last couple of months posting the things that apparently most of us would like to post according to them or else it's some kind of concerted effort by some as yet unknown rightwing group fomenting general ill-feeling towards various minorities. What's also strange is the number of posters registered a couple of years ago with a very low post count who come out and agree with the new regs. Call me suspicious but...

ETA: To keep on topic it's not a normal thing for child abusers to apologise to their victims especially when they are claiming innocence.

gozunda · 27-11-2018 8:18pm

up for anything wrote: »

AH is full of Russian bots registered in the last couple of months posting the things that apparently most of us would like to post according to them or else it's some kind of concerted effort by some as yet unknown rightwing group fomenting general ill-feeling towards various minorities. What's also strange is the number of posters registered a couple of years ago with a very low post count who come out and agree with the new regs. Call me suspicious but...

ETA: To keep on topic it's not a normal thing for child abusers to apologise to their victims especially when they are claiming innocence.

Not in either camp but russian bots conspiacy theory - For real? :eek:

Spleerbun · 27-11-2018 8:23pm

gozunda wrote: »

Not in either camp but russian bots conspiacy theory - For real? :eek:

Everyone knows the Russians see us Irish as their most serious threat to world domination, they'll do anything to destabilise us

Galwayguy35 · 27-11-2018 8:46pm

Anyone who is given citizenship and then commits a serious offense like in this case should have their citizenship revoked and sent back to their own country.

Unfortunately we can't deport nonces who are born here but this fella should be sent packing.

John Sacrimoni · 27-11-2018 8:51pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Anyone who is given citizenship and then commits a serious offense like in this case should have their citizenship revoked and sent back to their own country.

Unfortunately we can't deport nonces who are born here but this fella should be sent packing.

100%, i dont see why anyone would have a problem sending people like this back to their country of origin. It can be done, but the will isnt there to do it.

Captain Obvious · 27-11-2018 8:59pm

Spleerbun wrote: »

Everyone knows the Russians see us Irish as their most serious threat to world domination, they'll do anything to destabilise us

We're an easy target after the UK to further destabilise the EU. There's plenty of obvious bot activity around Irexit stuff. Ireland has actually become quite a beacon with our changes to the constitution in the last few years. Gay marriage, blasphemy and abortion changes. Even the water charge fiasco was a shot to the right wing agenda. The people forcing a change in the government through protest? It's not a standard thing across the world. Ireland is definitely a target.

El_Duderino 09 · 27-11-2018 9:20pm

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Who said I wouldn't ?

Larry Murphy and that O'Dwyer bloke to name but two could happily be kicked out and passports removed and I'd not shed a tear.

Shere would they go? If they're citizens of nowhere and you take their passport, then they're stick in Ireland.

Your suggestion's edgyness exceeds it's cleverness.

up for anything · 28-11-2018 6:02am

gozunda wrote: »

Not in either camp but russian bots conspiacy theory - For real? :eek:

Maybe neither. I don't read threads here as much as I used to because I get too impotently angry or bored with the content and find I pull my posts before submitting because they're not worth wasting the bandwidth so I maybe I am seeing a trend where none exists but I usually have fairly good instincts and something is not quite right. In another life time I would have created a spreadsheet but now, meh!

yoke · 28-11-2018 6:18am

John Sacrimoni wrote: »

100%, i dont see why anyone would have a problem sending people like this back to their country of origin. It can be done, but the will isnt there to do it.

Doesn’t work like that in the real world, as some people have to give up their previous citizenship upon gaining Irish citizenship depending on the rules of their previous country.

More importantly, it’s a bad idea because it would deliberately create a 2-tier citizenship where naturalised citizens would not feel like real citizens of the country - you can’t then blame them later for sticking with groups of people from their old country instead and never integrating.

This guy is an Irish citizen and should be punished as such.

Perhaps you should instead be campaigning for tougher punishments for all criminals in Ireland in general.

up for anything · 28-11-2018 6:29am

Spleerbun wrote: »

Everyone knows the Russians see us Irish as their most serious threat to world domination, they'll do anything to destabilise us

"Out of the mouth of babes."

We don't appreciate how special Ireland is these days. The freedoms we have, unlike those previous bastions of liberty but for how long?

We have, in such a short time, become so far removed from the twaddle below. I know we have Mattie and Ronan but even they would be hard put to voice such crap and yet there's a subtle undercurrent.

Who would have thought that there could be enough Russian interference in a US election to help change the outcome or at least destabilise it enough to see Trump elected? It only takes one rabid witchfinder general or one (in fact, two) 'mad' monk to become a beacon for change.

http://churchandstate.org.uk/2017/04/oklahoma-republican-declares-that-rape-is-the-will-of-god/?fbclid=IwAR2VlvoIT6GDp5abV3Hx_tniE58d624WEI_wmWxxbZuq5ch69DLR_9O0JWI

gozunda · 28-11-2018 10:30am

yoke wrote: »

Doesn’t work like that in the real world, as some people have to give up their previous citizenship upon gaining Irish citizenship depending on the rules of their previous country.

More importantly, it’s a bad idea because it would deliberately create a 2-tier citizenship where naturalised citizens would not feel like real citizens of the country - you can’t then blame them later for sticking with groups of people from their old country instead and never integrating.

This guy is an Irish citizen and should be punished as such.

Perhaps you should instead be campaigning for tougher punishments for all criminals in Ireland in general.

Fair enough. But how do you successfully persuade an individual who is convicted of such offenses that such behaviour is neither accepted or legal in their new country?

The case in point here is that the individual although convicted and admiting to intimately handling the child but apparently does not believe they did anything wrong?

Those brought up in countries with cultures which for example have deep-rooted gender inequalities often face the biggest problems integrating with western cultures and laws. Afaik there is no mechanism I am aware of in any western country that can prevent citizens "sticking with groups of people from their old country instead and never integrating".

PlaneSpeeking · 28-11-2018 10:38am

I think we are all familiar with the case - sadly - of the young boy raped by the alleged sylum seeker/refugee who was promptly let off as it was "a sexual emergency".

When you come from a culture/background/faith where you see this as normal - more and more incidents are going to happen.

Will there be a TD flashing knickers or other garments in a few year when the rape figures have skyrocketed in backwater parts of the country due to the influx of people like this ? Doubtful.

Gravelly · 28-11-2018 10:46am

Are mosques in Ireland Garda vetting those who teach children? Did this guy pass? If he returns to the mosque will he be allowed to “teach” again?

Captain Obvious · 28-11-2018 11:04am

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I think we are all familiar with the case - sadly - of the young boy raped by the alleged sylum seeker/refugee who was promptly let off as it was "a sexual emergency".

A quick Google would indicate that this is a complete misrepresentation of what happened. He was not "let off as it was a sexual emergency". He had the rape conviction overturned as it had not been shown he knew there was no consent. He was retried on that and received a larger sentence. He was still in jail on the sexual assault of a minor charge. His argument of "sexual emergency" wasn't accepted at all.

The court did not dispute the “watertight” evidence that some form of sexual abuse had taken place during the incident in a toilet cubicle at the Theresienbad pool in December 2015. But in Austrian law, prosecutors must prove that an attacker is fully aware the act is nonconsensual for a more severe rape conviction to hold.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/austria-swimming-pool-rape-theresienbad-vienna-iraqi-refugee-a7473441.html

Can I ask if you deliberately misrepresented that or did you simply not know? If it's the latter then where do you hear these nonsense claims?

Billy Mays · 28-11-2018 3:53pm

Shocked that you haven't had an answer yet

Grayson · 28-11-2018 5:21pm

gozunda wrote: »

Fair enough. But how do you successfully persuade an individual who is convicted of such offenses that such behaviour is neither accepted or legal in their new country?

The case in point here is that the individual although convicted and admiting to intimately handling the child but apparently does not believe they did anything wrong?

Those brought up in countries with cultures which for example have deep-rooted gender inequalities often face the biggest problems integrating with western cultures and laws. Afaik there is no mechanism I am aware of in any western country that can prevent citizens "sticking with groups of people from their old country instead and never integrating".

I may have missed it but didn't he claim he never did it?

As for thinking it's not wrong, I think a lot of criminals do that. Remember in the vast majority of the mulsim world, child abuse is seen as wrong. You'd have to go to the most backwards parts of the world to find anywhere that thinks it's acceptable.

Grayson · 28-11-2018 5:24pm

Gravelly wrote: »

Are mosques in Ireland Garda vetting those who teach children? Did this guy pass? If he returns to the mosque will he be allowed to “teach” again?

Are churches? That's not whataboutery, I just don't know. I'd imagine that if churches are mosques are.

I know that to be employed in some professions you need to be checked but i don't know about this.

ohnonotgmail · 28-11-2018 5:27pm

Gravelly wrote: »

Are mosques in Ireland Garda vetting those who teach children? Did this guy pass? If he returns to the mosque will he be allowed to “teach” again?

Grayson wrote: »

Are churches? That's not whataboutery, I just don't know. I'd imagine that if churches are mosques are.

I know that to be employed in some professions you need to be checked but i don't know about this.

Anybody with access to children is required to be vetted.

https://www.volunteer.ie/volunteers/garda-vetting/

The work or activities where people working with children and vulnerable adult will require vetting include:

Promotion of religious beliefs

Gravelly · 28-11-2018 5:27pm

Grayson wrote: »

Are churches? That's not whataboutery, I just don't know. I'd imagine that if churches are mosques are.

I know that to be employed in some professions you need to be checked but i don't know about this.

If you work with children in a church in Ireland you have to be, just like any club or profession.

I'd like to know if this is the case with mosques.

ohnonotgmail · 28-11-2018 5:28pm

Gravelly wrote: »

If you work with children in a church in Ireland you have to be, just like any club or profession.

I'd like to know if this is the case with mosques.

why do you think it wouldn't be?

Gravelly · 28-11-2018 5:35pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

why do you think it wouldn't be?

Because I understand some of those teaching in mosques here aren't in the country long enough to pass a Garda vetting check, and come from countries where the Gardai are unable to check their previous history.

I would love to know if this guy passed a Garda vetting.

ohnonotgmail · 28-11-2018 5:35pm

Gravelly wrote: »

Because I understand some of those teaching in mosques here aren't in the country long enough to pass a Garda vetting check, and come from countries where the Gardai are unable to check their previous history.

I would love to know if this guy passed a Garda vetting.

He has been in the country since 2001.

Lux23 · 28-11-2018 5:37pm

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Gravelly wrote: »

Because I understand some of those teaching in mosques here aren't in the country long enough to pass a Garda vetting check, and come from countries where the Gardai are unable to check their previous history.

I would love to know if this guy passed a Garda vetting.

Sure, there are lots of sex offenders that would pass Garda vetting even those with convictions abroad.

Ash.J.Williams · 28-11-2018 5:39pm

John Sacrimoni wrote: »

tbh it makes no difference to me. Is that what you took from the article yes? anything else to add?

it's a huge difference in fairness

Harry Palmr · 28-11-2018 5:42pm

After Hours really is turning into a cesspit of manipulative infowarfare.

Gravelly · 28-11-2018 5:42pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

He has been in the country since 2001.

I know. But lots of others haven't. And I wonder what his record is. Paedos don't usually suddenly start in middle age apparently.

ohnonotgmail · 28-11-2018 5:44pm

Gravelly wrote: »

I know. But lots of others haven't. And I wonder what his record is. Paedos don't usually suddenly start in middle age apparently.

There was no mention of a previous record after his trial. If he had a previous record it would have been mentioned in sentencing.

Gravelly · 28-11-2018 5:44pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

There was no mention of a previous record after his trial. If he had a previous record it would have been mentioned in sentencing.

Only if he'd been convicted.

ohnonotgmail · 28-11-2018 5:46pm

Gravelly wrote: »

Only if he'd been convicted.

If he had a previous record he would not have passed vetting.

Gravelly · 28-11-2018 5:50pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

If he had a previous record he would not have passed vetting.

That's why I asked if he had been vetted....

ohnonotgmail · 28-11-2018 5:53pm

Gravelly wrote: »

That's why I asked if he had been vetted....

And i go back to my original question of why do you think he would not be vetted? it is a requirement for anybody who comes in contact with children. I have to get garda vetted and i dont even have any contact with children but i do have access to their data. Why do you think that people working in mosques are exempt?

RiseitekiMind · 28-11-2018 5:53pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

After Hours really is turning into a cesspit of manipulative infowarfare.

The admins really need to filter Russian IP's

Gravelly · 28-11-2018 5:56pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

And i go back to my original question of why do you think he would not be vetted? it is a requirement for anybody who comes in contact with children. I have to get garda vetted and i dont even have any contact with children but i do have access to their data. Why do you think that people working in mosques are exempt?

The reason I think it might be the case is that I am involved in a sports club, and a guy who couldn't get Garda vetted to coach with us is supposedly involved in teaching religion to kids in the local mosque. I've only heard this secondhand so am not claiming it to be true.

Tea drinker · 28-11-2018 5:56pm

RiseitekiMind wrote: »

The admins really need to filter Russian IP's

best answer selected is:

ANDREWMUFC wrote: »

Racist

ohnonotgmail · 28-11-2018 5:58pm

Gravelly wrote: »

The reason I think it might be the case is that I am involved in a sports club, and a guy who couldn't get Garda vetted to coach with us is supposedly involved in teaching religion to kids in the local mosque. I've only heard this secondhand so am not claiming it to be true.

then perhaps you should inform the authorities.

Gravelly · 28-11-2018 6:00pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

then perhaps you should inform the authorities.

Inform them what? They vetted him and didn't pass him, so they know more about him than I do. He claimed to a fellow coach that he teaches in the mosque. I'm sure the SWAT team will break down the door if I ring the Guards up and tell them that.

John Sacrimoni · 28-11-2018 6:02pm

I know this guy in the country since 2001, but have we any way of knowing if he had similar convictions from when he lived in Bangladesh?

Ash.J.Williams · 28-11-2018 6:02pm

Gravelly wrote: »

Inform them what? They vetted him and didn't pass him, so they know more about him than I do. He claimed to a fellow coach that he teaches in the mosque. I'm sure the SWAT team will break down the door if I ring the Guards up and tell them that.

You're withholding information

Gravelly · 28-11-2018 6:04pm

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

You're withholding information

What information? The Gardaí vetted him, not me.

ohnonotgmail · 28-11-2018 6:05pm

Gravelly wrote: »

Inform them what? They vetted him and didn't pass him, so they know more about him than I do. He claimed to a fellow coach that he teaches in the mosque. I'm sure the SWAT team will break down the door if I ring the Guards up and tell them that.

Perhaps try tusla instead of the guards. Tell them what you know. somebody who failed garda vetting with working with access to children.

Gravelly · 28-11-2018 6:06pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Perhaps try tusla instead of the guards. Tell them what you know. somebody who failed garda vetting with working with access to children.

It was on his vetting application. If you think Tusla would act on vague secondhand information from me, when the Gardaí already vetted the guy, you are deranged.

ohnonotgmail · 28-11-2018 6:07pm

Gravelly wrote: »

It was on his vetting application. If you think Tusla would act on vague secondhand information from me, when the Gardaí already vetted the guy, you are deranged.

I really dont think you know anything at all. If you did you would do something about it.

Gravelly · 28-11-2018 6:10pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I really dont think you know anything at all. If you did you would do something about it.

I think it is strange that you believe that I am responsible for the Gardaí doing their job and a mosque abiding by the law, based on secondhand information I heard.

ohnonotgmail · 28-11-2018 6:13pm

Gravelly wrote: »

I think it is strange that you believe that I am responsible for the Gardaí doing their job and a mosque abiding by the law, based on secondhand information I heard.

You dont think you have a responsibility to report somebody who has failed garda vetting and is still working with children?

Gravelly · 28-11-2018 6:17pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

You dont think you have a responsibility to report somebody who has failed garda vetting and is still working with children?

Did you actually read my posts?

The Gardaí know that he claimed to teach in the mosque.
I don't know whether he does or not, as I only heard it secondhand.

I'm struggling to understand what you are missing? Our club has a child protection officer who would have passed all that info to the Gardaí. The Gardaí didn't pass him. It could be simply because he is not in the country long enough or it could be more serious, I don't know why they didn't pass him, they do.
I have absolutely no responsibility here - do you think I should rock up to the mosque and accuse him of being a paedo? How do you think that would end?

ohnonotgmail · 28-11-2018 6:19pm

Gravelly wrote: »

Did you actually read my posts?

The Gardaí know that he claimed to teach in the mosque.
I don't know whether he does or not, as I only heard it secondhand.

I'm struggling to understand what you are missing? Our club has a child protection officer who would have passed all that info to the Gardaí. The Gardaí didn't pass him. It could be simply because he is not in the country long enough or it could be more serious, I don't know why they didn't pass him, they do.
I have absolutely no responsibility here - do you think I should rock up to the mosque and accuse him of being a paedo? How do you think that would end?

then why bother posting about it?

Abdur Rashid refuses to apologise to 6 year old that he abused.

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